Sonics 95 - Clippers 88
This was a brutal game to watch. With the exception of Kaman, it's hard to imagine the Clippers playing worse than they did in the first half. And yet they were only down 8 at half time. And each time you felt like the Clippers were going to make a run, something ridiculous would happen to quash it. When the Clippers made 5 quick points to open the second half and cut the lead to three, Damien Wilkins made consecutive three pointers to push it out to 9 (largest of the game to that point). The consecutive threes would have been bad enough... but they were wrapped around a blown layup by Kaman - one of those, all alone, no defender, dunk the damn ball specials.
Similarly, to open the fourth quarter, the Clippers got the start they needed if they were going to get back into the game. Down 12, Dickau sank a three on the first possession, followed by Thornton blocking Collison underneath for a jump ball. There were three seconds on the shot clock - even if the Clippers don't control the tap, the Sonics have basically no time to get a shot. Indeed, Wilkins gathers in the tap and chucks the ball toward the basket... it is not even close, wide right and 3 feet too long... and it banks in for three points.
The Clippers were awful and did not deserve to win this game. They had precious few legitimate scorers on the floor, and two of them (Thomas and Mobley) combined to shoot 4 for 24. And one of the makes was a meaningless Mobley three after the game was out of reach. But at the same time, it felt like a game that they weren't going to win. Wilkins bank shot was not the only gift of the evening - Collison banked in an 18 footer straight away with 2 seconds left in the first quarter. These shots don't count in a driveway game of H-O-R-S-E, but they count in the NBA.
Conversely, the Clippers literally could not make lay ups. I've been lamenting the team's absence of offensive fire power given all of the injuries. Well, in this game, they continually got good shots. Shots that even this group should make. And yet they did not.
The Clippers were not good all night, but for one 5 minute stretch of the 2nd quarter, they were shockingly, jaw-droppingly, shake-your-head, scream-at-the-TV bad. Just one bizarre, futile play after another.
- 9:30 left in the quarter with Seattle holding a 23-21 lead, Kaman, who has 11 of the Clippers 21 points so far in 13 plus minutes, gets the ball against Johan Petro. Now, Kaman has been torching Kurt Thomas, a terrific low post defender, all game. Johan Petro has about as much chance of guarding Chris as I do. Kaman goes right by him, and as he going up for his shot, Nick Collison grabs his wrist, which all three refs miss. But no big deal, the ball bounces off the bottom of the rim, Kaman gets it back, and has an uncontested layup - which he misses.
- 9:15 - Gelabale travels.
- 9:05 - Kaman passes out of the post to a wide open Dickau for three - miss.
- 8:45 - Durant gets the ball on the left side guarded by Cat. Cat clearly wants to force him baseline, where the help is supposed to be. He does, but there is no help as Kaman has his head turned (maybe Kaman's only defensive mistake in the game, I should add). Layup. 21-25.
- 8:30 - Al Thornton draws a foul on Wally Szczerbiak on a nice one-on-one up and under move. He makes both free throws. 23-25.
OK, now it gets really ugly. During the free throws, the Clippers take Kaman out for his first rest of the game. Remember, he played 41 minutes Tuesday night. He has to rest some time. Your five Clippers on the floor are Thomas, Patterson, Thornton, Mobley and Dickau. The score is 23-25.
- 8:06 - After an ugly possession, this lineup does about the only thing it can do - it forces a turnover and now they have a 3 on 1 break. For some reason Mobley kicks ahead to Patterson instead of Dickau. Patterson's transition game is limited to 1-0 breaks. Introduce a defender (or a teammate for that matter) and he gets a little confused. He throws an ill-advised pass that Durant knocks out of bounds. 3-on-1 breaks, for a unit that has very little hope of scoring... let's just say you need to convert those.
- 8:03 - Inbounding with 21 seconds on the shot clock, Thomas gets an open three against the zone - the best shot you could hope for really - and misses. The long rebound goes straight to Dickau, who wants to make a touch pass back out to Thomas. Instead, the ball squirts out of his hands, one of several crispety-crunchity-butterfingery plays by little Dan during the game (did the ball get wet in the Seattle rain?)
- 7:46 - Szczerbiak hits the open 15 footer in transition after the Dickau turnover. 23-27.
- 7:27 - <sarcasm>My favorite Clipper play, iso Patterson on the post up.</sarcasm> He uses his strength well to back down Jeff Green, gets right to the basket... and banks the ball off the backboard so hard that he misses everything. Bank-air from 2 feet.
- 7:23 - Thomas gets the offensive rebound, and goes back up with the strength and determination of a kitten. Blocked by Collison. FWIW, Collison was the best player for the Sonics tonight. Lucky Clippers, he wasn't supposed to play, but at the last minute he was cleared. Chris Wilcox spent the whole night in foul trouble, Collison got big minutes, and responded with 18 points and 17 rebounds.
- 7:18 - Durant coast-to-coast after the block. 23-29.
- 7:14 - Dickau turns the ball over in the back court. Maggette checks into the game for Patterson. Although Maggette has been terrible to this point in the game (1 for 5), he's desperately needed with Kaman out and Mobley useless.
- 6:57 - Jeff Green (6'9") posts up Cat Mobley (6'4"). Bucket. 23-31.
In 93 seconds without Kaman, the Sonics are on a 6-0 run. And Seattle has been pretty terrible during those 93 seconds. The six points were the result of two Dickau turnovers, and a missed layup/blocked shot that resulted in a layup going the other way.
At this point, you're thinking, 'They have to bring Kaman back.' But he's had 93 seconds of rest, and he played 41 minutes the night before!
- 6:40 - Thornton makes a pretty good move against Green on the baseline, but can't finish, as Collison comes over to contest the layup and then rebounds the airball.
- 6:32 - In transition, Green gets the ball under the basket all alone, but the ball slips out of his hand as he goes up for the jam. It's not just the Clippers, I guess. That should have stretched the lead to 10.
- 6:22 - Dickau goes coast-to-coast but misses the layup. Maggette gets the follow, a rare converted layup for the Clippers. 25-31.
- 6:07 - Kaman is at the scorer's table, waiting to check in. No rest for the weary. Maggette denies the entry pass to Szczerbiak and knocks it away, Mobley picks up the loose ball, and goes the distance... and misses the layup.
- 5:57 - Green travels. Kaman checks in for Thornton on the dead ball. He was out for 2:33. The Clippers were outscored 6-2, as each team tried to one-up the other with ineptitude. Every Seattle turnover has been trumped by a Clipper missed layup.
- 5:44 - 13 seconds after checking in, Kaman gets an easy bucket. The Seattle zone somehow left Earl Watson covering Kaman next to the basket, and Dickau found him. Miraculously, the Clippers are within 4, 27-31.
-
As an aside, Durant at 6'10" is playing on the top of Seattle's 3-2 zone. Szczerbiak, 6'7" and never what you would call a banger, is left to defend the right block opposite Collison. Ignoring the fact that Wally shouldn't be chasing Dickau into the LEFT corner from the right block, it tells you something about Durant's lack of strength at this point in his career that PJ would rather have Szczerbiak protecting the basket.
- 5:29 - The most illustrative sequence of the night. Dickau makes a good steal helping down on Durant. Dickau is now in transition with only Watson to beat. He makes a nice spin move, gets to the other side of the rim, and misses the layup. Mobley has outhustled Durant to be the next on the scene, he gets the rebound, and misses the layup. Collison gets the rebound, but Dickau again knocks the ball away. He saves the ball from going out of bounds, but it goes to Watson.
- 5:04 - Durant draws the foul on Mobley going to the basket. Two free throws, 27-33 Sonics.
- 4:58 - Maggette takes his eye off the pass and the ball slips through his hands. Turnover, and then he fouls Wilkins.
- 4:40 - Ross forces Durant into a miss. For what it's worth, Ross did a far superior job on Durant than Mobley in this game. To this point, Durant has six points, all scored while Ross was on the bench. For all the talk of Durant, Seattle was much better tonight with Szczerbiak coming off screens than with the rookie going one-on-one. The other players tend to stand around and watch Durant.
- 4:17 - Maggette finds a seam in the zone, Knight finds him... and he loses the ball. It's hard to tell what happened. Did it get knocked away or did he just drop it? It goes as a turnover in the scorebook.
- 4:10 - In transition, Wilcox is called for the offensive foul running down Q on the pass-and-crash. Clippers dodge another bullet as the Durant dunk is waved off.
There you have it, 5:20 of some of the worst basketball imaginable. The sad thing is, the effort was there - the execution was just unthinkably bad. During that time, by my count, the Clippers missed 8 layups. They had another one blocked and Maggette also dropped the ball when he was in position for a layup. A couple of the misses were contested to be certain. But I've got four of them (including both of Mobley's) as flat misses, and frankly, you expect a bucket or at least a trip to the line from each and every one of them. BTW, Ross missed an uncontested layup a couple minutes later in the quarter as well.
In addition to 8 missed layups, there were two misses of wide open three pointers from ostensibly good shooters.
And then there were the unforced turnovers. Dickau dropped one rebound (it was not scored a rebound and a turnover officially, but that's what it amounted to) and also gave the ball up in the backcourt, while Maggette simply failed to catch one pass with no defender in sight.
Only the fact that Seattle was almost as bad during the sequence kept the Clippers within six.
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So Glad I Missed It
In the midst of this ugly, ridiculous, and perhaps unnecessary skid, we might have to start considering the next stage of Clipper strategy. I guess it should be called "surrendering the fort" or "the terms of surrender," as opposed to the "hold the fort" approach. It's still early, but going into this type of hole in this particular manner prompts the discussion.
"Terms of surrender" consists of thinking about what to do with Cassell and Maggette, in that order. It seems like it's not too early to look around at teams that might be interested in having Cassell on their roster for their playoff/championship run, and what the Clips might get from them that could be useful in exchange. There's still time for the Clips to rally, and Cassell coming back from the calf injury would help, but it's not too early to look at other teams and what they have and what they need.
The Maggette situation is a little more complicated. The theory with Maggette was that he had a surprising opportunity to be the Clippers' high-scoring first option, to carry the team and play at near-all star level. He had both opportunity and incentive, in a salary drive season. Maggette's start was okay, not great, and he was quickly overshadowed by Kaman and then suffered the kind of injury that is typical for him. Playing through the recovery he has done some scoring but his rebounding levels have fallen. He's been pretty mediocre.
One of the tricky parts of the Maggette equation is how much money might be out there from other teams. Maggette is doing a good job of showing that he can't be relied upon to carry a team and provide all-purpose high production. I'm a Maggette fan and proponent, but based on what I'm seeing this year I doubt I would ever be afraid of the Clips facing him on another team.
But the emergence of Kaman and the fact that he seems to be worth the money of his sizable contract also needs to be considered. Kaman is establishing himself as a legitimate second piece alongside Brand. This lowers the Clippers expectations of what they need to get out of Maggette. His value is simply going down. I speculated before that Maggette was playing to take money out of Shaun Livingston's bank account this season, but the truth may be that both of them will leave money on the table.
Dunleavy and the Clips have shopped Maggette in the past. They should probably start looking around to see what they might get for him at this point, but even if they have no chance at a playoff run, it would be interesting to see what the Clippers are like with Brand, Kaman, Maggette, and Livingston in the lineup (along with a healthy Mobley), as opposed to how there's no reason to see those guys with Cassell if the Clips can't make the playoffs.
Not sure when the "terms of surrender" strategy officially kicks in, but it's getting closer pretty quickly as the Clips give up their few winnable games.
by zhivclip on Dec 6, 2007 12:02 PM PST reply actions
Stealing my post ideas again!
Kaman, Brand, Livingston and Thornton are the only players that should not be shopped at this point. Everyone else should be on the table.
The problem is, they all have dubious value.
First and foremost, Cassell, Mobley and Maggette are all hurt. Cassell and Mobley certainly have no value right now - they have to get on the court and play well to have any value.
As for Maggette, one of the most important things you can get in return for a veteran - cap space - is moot with Maggette. He's got the option of opting out, which he will probably do. His value therefore is mostly limited to teams that think he could be an important piece in a championship NOW (because they stand to lose him after this season) or teams who actually want to shed salary. Both are possibilities, but the first is probably not going to happen until the trade deadline (when contenders get serious) and the second is of little interest to the Clippers, who would be loathe to take back longer term salary in exchange for Corey, even if it had some prospects or picks attached.
Quinton Ross has the opposite problem - he's cheap now, and due to be somewhat more expensive next season. Still, he's intriguing as trade bait for a team that wants a wing defender for a playoff push. But his salary is less the $1M. What are you going to get?
Same with Knight, Patterson, Dickau, Williams, Davis and Powell. None of them make enough to get much back. Not to mention that most of them were signed for next to nothing a mere 3 months ago - if anyone had been interested in them, wouldn't they have picked them up before?
I'm ruminating on this question. I think there are a couple of things worth doing. But there's nothing easy.
by Steve Perrin on Dec 6, 2007 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
Huh?
Ok.
But the thought that Corey has somehow failed to live up to your expectations as a number one option suggests to me that there may be a bit of a lack of understanding of the game of basketball here (with all due respect). Corey is not and never will be a number one option on an NBA team. He's a second option at best, and would most likely flourish best as a strong third option. He will never be an EB type first option, particularly where as here the defense can constantly key on him (with the exception that Kaman is sometimes doubleteamed in the post). The team needs good shooters to stretch the defense to allow Corey (and the shooters and Kaman) to operate. With all due respect to Q Ross, Mobley (current), and many others on the team, the Clips just can't do that right now. Which impacts Corey.
Corey's contract is favorable. He's by far their best player on the court. Why would they trade him when they are very likely to get a good guard in the lottery, get a couple of veteran shooters, and have EB back alongside Kaman.
By the way, it's time to stop pining away for the promise of Livingston as savior. Ain't gonna happen.
It's all so easy, isn't it Jax...
But the question remains, what to do? Do you have any advice?
Didn't get to this yet
Let's talk about #1 options. I suppose there are different interpretations of this. Is it possible for a wing player who goes to the basket and also hits jumpshots, and who is the leading scorer on his team, to be the #1 option? Like, say, Kobe Bryant? When you look at guys like Bryant, Carmelo, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce and elite players, it's pretty obvious that they're just better basketball players than Maggette (primarily they're much better ballhandlers, better and more active at posting up, and somewhat better shooters as well). I get that. I think that, in the end, it's primarily the advantage in shooting/ballhandling that makes the substantive difference. But they're scorers, and Maggette is a scorer.
When I said #1 option, I was primarily referring to the fact that he would presumably be the leading scorer (which he is), and playing with old Kaman. I was realistically expecting 12 points and barely 10 rebounds a game at best from Kaman this season, with plenty of off nights, though hoping for a little bit more of course. Kaman clearly wasn't projected to be anything resembling the #1 option or even out on the floor for 30 minutes a game, and not somebody you would run the offense through.
I think your view of #1 option has always been somebody who could get, take, and make big shots down the stretch, provide 4th quarter scoring, and manufacture victories for the team. I know that Maggette is not that guy, and has never been. Cassell (injured) and Mobley (injured) are more reliable and proven options down the stretch, but if Maggette was playing at a high level he would be able to make his contributions as well. I simply thought that Maggette would have the opportunity to average 25ppg and 7-8rpg and help the team get 10 wins in Nov-Dec, that with Brand out he would get minutes, touches, shots, and rebounds and he would score a lot of points.
So, to be specific, no, Maggette would not be the #1 option on a team with a player like EB on it. But did it seem likely that he would be the #1 scorer and the most productive player on the Clippers while EB is injured? Yes.
Instead, he's been just okay, perhaps mediocre, and already suffering the kind of injury that is typical for him also has to be factored in. I agree that he is best suited to be a strong 3rd option, and that's what he would be if the Clippers were completely healthy. I was hoping that he would make more of the current opportunity, which might have increased his scoring and given him greater confidence and general effectiveness. But as the team has been struggling and worse, he has been a contributor to the problems and the malaise. Maybe in the long run, this will help him stay on the Clippers and eventually play an important role, maybe not. We'll see.
by zhivclip on Dec 6, 2007 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
Slight disagreement
I don't quite agree on the Cassell point. I think that Cassell has put himself in a perfect place for a trade. He's already put some big scoring nights up on the board and anybody looking closely would know that the team was doing much better before he was injured. He's not a perfect player, but we're talking about him going to a team that already has a bunch of pieces but who needs a vet who can... well, basically do all the things Cassell does. And he's clearly resting, not playing, he didn't come back after sitting out one game. He had a bad experience with trying to play hurt to help the team last year. I don't think that his value right now has anything to do with him coming back and playing. In fact, the longer he sits out and we don't hear anything, the more likely it is that he might be traded. And who knows--since I've been overly optimistic and not especially accurate in any Clipper forecasting this year--maybe the Simmons buyout scenario isn't as farfetched as it seemed earlier.
I don't think that there's anybody worth discussing in terms of changing the roster besides Maggette. Other guys might be throw-ins to match salary, but I don't see the interest level for other teams in the other guys.
And as I said before, I think that Maggette's value has dipped a little bit. He wasn't able to seize the opportunity presented in the first month of the season, and now the team is struggling and that's not reflecting very well on him. He doesn't strike me as the primary problem, but he hasn't solved the problems either. I'm not sure whether this set of events and factors makes him more likely to remain a Clipper, or less.
by zhivclip on Dec 6, 2007 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
What opportunity did Corey not follow?
by Jax on Dec 6, 2007 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't mean
I think that they should go up tempo, play the youngsters, pick up a shooter out of the D league or get Diaz back, trade Sam, Q Ross and possibly TT, evaluate Corey's interest in resigning (and if he's not interested trade him too), pick a PG if possible in next year's lottery, and get ready for the lottery. They could be very good at this time next year with some luck in the lottery.
Sam and Corey are the only two movable assets
Trading Corey would be foolish unless it is also for expiring contracts and picks. The Clippers need to start saving up for Brand's extension. Plus there are other free agents out there next year. I think that Maggette will ultimately find that his best deal financially will be with the Clippers. We'll see if he wants to get away from here bad enough to take less money.
I guess the same could be said about EB, although he will proably stay for the max deal, and becauze LA is a pretty good movie making city.
Speaking of EB, Hollinger's chat had this today:
"Ian(penn): John,Is it plausible that Arenas will be the heir to Iverson in Philly this Summer ? With the capspace they will have, do you see Stefanski taking a bold gamble ?
John Hollinger: If Philly makes a run at somebody, I would think it would be Elton Brand. Their frontcourt needs are much more glaring right now. "
Why do I let a putz like Hollinger bother me so bad? Does he really think EB would ever leave for Philly? Or is he just trying to look smart?
by mp on Dec 6, 2007 1:53 PM PST reply actions
You Should Be Flattered
Brand won't opt out. He'll play the final year and then opt out. He's as intrigued as anyone by the possibility of playing next to the new Kaman. By playing the final year of his current contract, he keeps his options open. He gets to see what life in LA is like post injury, and if it's bad, he can move on in summer 09.
That's the way I see it.
I don't think he opts out
Ok, I hope all of that happens.
by mp on Dec 7, 2007 8:02 AM PST up reply actions
i agree
One of the problems with the Clippers is
Frankly, MDSr's comments about the status of this team are a joke. And Sterling makes alot of money from this venture. Does he care? Since it's in LA, marketing opportunities abound. As fans, we need to start caring enough about this team to demand excellence.
Agreed
There was some news about how TJ Simers got into it with Dunleavy, and it got extremely testy. It was specifically about Tim Thomas being so lousy and why is he playing him so much when he can't shoot, and Dunleavy countered by saying that Thomas TSP, factoring the 3s, was just under 50%. This was before the Milwaukee game (and the 2-14 debacle in Seacle), and now that TSP is down to .479%, with 40% from 2s and .366% on 3s.
The response and testiness seem to be typical Dunleavy. Thomas sucks. He's been horrible. He's a starting NBA PF who has 101 rebounds in 586 minutes, averaging 5.9. He has 13 offensive rebounds in 17 games. Guys like Nick Collison get 18 pts and 17 rebounds going against the Clippers. Dunleavy has one set of standards for players like Maggette, Singleton, and Wilcox and a different one for Cassell, Thomas, Kaman, Ross, Patterson, McCarty and others. He never explains, he's always defensive and combative.
I think the lack of a gigantic, large fanbase is one factor, and the Clips were demoted from the frontpage of the LAT sports in short order this year. But that's still no excuse.
by zhivclip on Dec 6, 2007 5:26 PM PST up reply actions

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