The 08-09 Clippers - Athletes and Passers and Shooters, Oh My!
Citizen ghost_ride wrote a FanPost about a few side stories he has been thinking about this pre-season. As it happens, one of his themes is part of a post I've been mulling myself.
For several seasons the Clippers have been something of a lunch pail team. They've played solid, somewhat uninspiring basketball characterized by strong defense, low post offense and a slow pace. They've ranked in the bottom couple of teams in three point attempts, three point makes and three point percentage each of the last three seasons. And while I don't have this stat, I feel rather certain that they were near the bottom of the league in dunks as well. There's not necessarily anything inherently wrong with any of this (although I did notice that most of the top teams shot a lot of threes a couple of seasons ago). After all, the most successful Clippers team of all time, the team that came within a single game of the 2006 Western Conference Finals, fell into this boring category.
It hasn't just been the absence of the long ball either. Whether it was Darius Miles or Chris Wilcox or James Singleton, the Clippers spent the Elton Brand era driving away the super-athletic players. Sam Cassell had a great season in 05-06, but he's about the least athletic point guard in the history of the NBA. Likewise, Cat Mobley was added in 05 and contributed to the team's playoff success, but he's a rather earth-bound sort, at least by the standards of NBA wings. Sure, Cat will throw one down from time to time, but face facts, you're always more than a little surprised when he does. Of course, the team was just adopting the persona of the star. Elton Brand is a workhorse at the power forward, not a thoroughbred. Even some time leading scorer Corey Maggette, an Adonis as a physical specimen, got his points not by gracefully swooping to the basket for dunks, but rather by bulling his way in order to get to the line. Few three pointers, few dunks, lots of low post isos and trips to the line. Even when they were winning, it wasn't necessarily a lot of fun to watch. As strange as it seemed, it was as if MDsr was allergic to shooters and athletes. One last roster spot to fill? How about Aaron Williams? Or Ruben Patterson?
Well, if it was an allergy, he most have taken some shots. The house cleaning of summer 08 seems to have been specifically intended to replace plodders and non-shooters with athletes and gunners. Gone from last year's rotation are Brevin Knight, Dan Dickau, Quinton Ross, Josh Powell, Nick Fazekas, Brand, Maggette and Cassell. In their place, we have Baron Davis, Mike Taylor, Jason Hart, Ricky Davis, Marcus Camby, Steve Novak, Eric Gordon, DeAndre Jordan and Mike Taylor. To a man, the incoming player is either a better shooter, a better athlete, a better passer, or all of the above. Even in the swap of Brand for Camby, while Brand is clearly the better all around player, Camby will provide more highlight reel dunks, and is a far superior passer.
Nowhere is the makeover more apparent than at the point guard. Cassell, Knight and Dickau are arguably the three least physically imposing NBA point guards of the last 10 years. Seriously, who else would be on that list? At least Dickau could make an occasional three, which could not be said of 2007-2008 Cassell, nor ever of Knight. The point guard rotation now includes a guy who posterizes first team all defense forwards and one of the flat out quickest and most athletic players from this draft. Now, maybe Jason Hart isn't a monster athlete, but compared to the guys we had last season, he's Michael Effing Jordan.
Elsewhere on the roster, the transformation started with last season's first team all rookie selection Al Thornton. Rated as the best athlete in a very good draft, Thornton did not disappoint, providing more highlight reel jams in his rookie season than the Clipper team had seen collectively in years. Seriously, before Thornton, when was the last time a Clipper dunk was on SportsCenter? And don't get me started on the teams pathological inability to complete an alley-oop.
As if MDsr suddenly discovered that having athletes on the team is not such a bad idea after all (tell that to Chris Wilcox), for the second consecutive June he went after the best athlete in the entire draft. You like Thornton's 41 inch vertical leap? Well Gordon's 40 inch jump ain't shabby. DeAndre Jordan is clearly a lottery athlete, even if other issues dropped him to the Clippers picking 35th. And we've already mentioned the raw athleticism of Mike Taylor. With three draft picks, the Clippers took three superior athletes, and all three appear to be capable of making significant contributions this season. We've already seen a few highlight reel dunks this pre-season from Thornton, Taylor and Jordan.
Now, let's talk about outside shooting. Prior to trading Wilcox for Vladimir Radmanovic in Feb. 06, the Clippers had one three point threat - Cat Mobley. There weren't even any shooters at the end of the bench, assuming you don't count Walter McCarty. Cassell and Maggette each made a decent percentage that season, but neither makes better than 1 in 3 for his career. The following season, when Tim Thomas came in to replace Vlad, the team had all of two legitimate shooters as both Cassell and Maggette shot atrociously that year.
The 08-09 Clippers will add Baron Davis, Ricky Davis, Eric Gordon and long range specialist Steve Novak alongside Thornton, Mobley and Thomas. For the first time in my recollection, the Clippers can call time out down three with 10 seconds remaining and put not two, not three, not four, but FIVE shooters on the floor. What a concept. And they'll have seven to choose from, so they can even pick the ones with the hot hand.
(By the way, I'll point out before someone calls me on it that Baron's career three point percentage of .325 is actually worse than either Cassell's or Maggette's. But with over a thousand makes in his 9 year NBA career compared to fewer than 700 for Cassell in 15 seasons, I think we can all agree that he shoots it with more confidence. His shot selection isn't always the best, but he sure seems to make a lot of important ones. I have no problem with him taking threes.)
Of course, the team is still a week away from it's first regular season game and it remains to be seen just how much rein MDsr is going to give his new ponies. But it's clear he's got some very different weapons than in recent years, and so far in pre-season, it looks like he's willing to use them. I expect to see a lot more three point shooting and a lot more dunking.
And maybe even a few alley oops.
Comments
That's What I'm Talking...
Great article.
We’ve been starved of athleticism for so long, and now it looks like we’re stacked. You had to think it was only a matter of time that we drafted well. The last couple years might have been tough, but at least they served a purpose. They contributed to Draft Picks that it looks like we actually cashed in on for a change, helping to make the deep and talented team we have this year. Free Agency is cool and all, but it’s always a lot more fun to draft and watch core players develop. With Kaman, Thornton, Gordon, DeAndre & Taylor – we have a legit home grown player at each position. Something I never thought would happen.
by ghost_ride on
Oct 21, 2008 10:20 AM PDT
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That's an interesting point...
Of course the rookies are a long way from proving they belong in anything other than pre-season, but they do seem super promising. So the Clippers can now field a team of draft picks, even with the disasters of Korolev and Livingston in recent years. And don’t forget Paul Davis!
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on
Oct 21, 2008 10:26 AM PDT
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Should have said...
That we have a legit prospect at every position.
Korolev was the worst pick ever. If Danillo had been there for us at #7 this year, I was pretty confident Dunleavy would be passing, but the prospect of going through Korolev round II was pretty gut-wrenching.
At least Livingston gave us some thrills here and there. And you’re right, you can’t forget about Paul Davis!
by ghost_ride on
Oct 21, 2008 10:35 AM PDT
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Good Post
Zhiv is back after a 5-day East Coast swing. Great to see CS stepping into regular season form here with a few strong posts. It’s kinda funny: I left right after Gordon’s outburst against the Kings, and it was nice to leave on a good note and take a break before the season starts. Missed the drama of BD’s potential injury. Not much news around here about the Toronto game—what happened there? The interesting thing is that with the injuries to Camby and TT there seems to be a whole lot of Kaman-Davis, which has always intrigued me. Not sure how Skinner/Davis is going to work itself out once everybody settles in.
It’s great to consider the increased athleticism, and CS does a nice job here. I think that the main consideration is the degree to which the departure of Brand-Maggette is a true changing of the guard for the Clips. It’s not necessarily something many of us would have chosen, but since it has happened, it’s actually quite refreshing. Things have opened up, and as CS points out, Dunleavy certainly seems to have turned the page. (One could argue that FElton made a mistake not choosing to play with the pre-debacle guys on this roster, BDavis plus the rookies/Thornton, but we won’t go there right now.)
The increase in shooters does seem to get underplayed a little bit here, even with all of the attention. We’ve seen the effects of it already, in Gordon, RDavis, and a smidge of Novak, and that’s without BDavis and Tim Thomas in his new role. We’ve seen the Clips keep games close, jump out to a lead, or maintain a lead through using the 3 ball in ways that they just haven’t been able to before. The mention of Korolev is a good example: in previous preseasons, you kinda wondered if he might hit a few 3s and be a threat and quality pro, it was doubtful but seemed possible. You wondered if Maggette was going to improve his pct., along with TThomas, and what Mobley might be like if he’s healthy, and if Dickau could be a real threat. They were all very big ifs, a lot of Club Optimism action. In Novak you see the anti-Korolev: you know he can hit shots. There’s just no doubt. Baron Davis is the anti-Dickau in a million ways, and one important one is that he’s definitely going to make a lot of 3s without a doubt—there’s a Maggette-like question of whether he can improve his pct. a bit, but like Maggs you know he’s going to score the points; it’s just going to happen. Gordon has answered most of the questions about him with his preseason play, and again, there’s just no doubt whatsoever that he can make shots and has real 3pt range. The shooting is a very big deal and a major change, and it will be interesting to see how it plays out once the season starts.
by citizen zhiv on
Oct 21, 2008 11:16 AM PDT
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The Forgotten Ones...
I keep wondering when Zhiv is going to start pining for Nick Fazekas. Has Novak’s obvious and incredible ability as a shooter made everyone Forget Fazekas?
I myself am wondering who plays defense on the wing for this team. I think we actually might miss Q Ross, especially with a bunch of other shooters on the floor. It goes back to that theory about Ross needing to play for a good team. Maybe the Clips have finally become that team. But then I think, who do you get rid of for Ross? The roster really is loaded.
by swamigusto on
Oct 22, 2008 9:57 AM PDT
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wing defenders
This is definitely an issue. However, MDsr has said some very nice things about Gordon’s defense, and Thornton is also working on his D. If those young guys can develop into solid defenders, it will be a huge plus.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on
Oct 22, 2008 10:36 AM PDT
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Defender...
I’m using my selective memory and fondly picturing Q. Ross annoying Kobe Bryant and Kevin Martin and all those other flashy wings over the last few years. He was a wonderful pest… with obvious shortcomings, of course.
Now, I first came upon Clipsnation a 14 or 15 months ago during the “Steve Francis Watch”. More recently we’ve had a lengthy “Shawn Livingston Watch”, and a tragic “Elton Brand Watch” (and no doubt some other Watches I can’t remember). Maybe we should start a “Q. Ross Watch”. There’s a roster spot, right? Has Q got a guaranteed deal at Memphis? More important, is he happy? Don’t you miss him, just a little? Clipper Steve, you mooned over SL for so long, didn’t you save some of that melancholy for Q? No? Really?
by swamigusto on
Oct 22, 2008 4:50 PM PDT
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As it happens...
Q’s roster spot is not guaranteed in Memphis, and he’s a likely cut strictly for the cost savings, even though they have a roster spot for him. The Clippers could cut Jelani McCoy to make room for Q if he comes on the market. But there are several factors working against him:
1) MDsr has always shown a preference for starting the season with 14 players leaving a spot open to address in-season needs quickly.
2) McCoy has played OK, and Camby hasn’t played yet. There’s an argument for keeping him.
3) Baron got dinged and there was a lot of concern – maybe Lindsay Hunter or another vet point guard gets the last spot.
4) Q’s still a Grizzly as of today.
MDsr clearly always like Q, and he always worked hard for the team. It’s certainly a possibility. I don’t know if I’ll call it a full-blown watch. Maybe a Quinton Ross Glance out of the corner of my eye.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on
Oct 22, 2008 5:49 PM PDT
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Ha ha!
I can’t track this stuff. Jelani makes fifteen, right? I don’t think they’ll do that. I’d love to see Q land on playoff team anyway. Clips or elsewhere. Could happen. Q Ross is a STOPPER.
by swamigusto on
Oct 22, 2008 8:49 PM PDT
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Davis3 is the old/new Fazekas
…and DeAndre Jordan trumps both of them, because he might actually be pretty good.
Some will remember (too well) that last year I was a huge proponent for starting Kaman and Davis together, and keeping Tim Thomas in his accustomed role as a reserve and bringing him in off of the bench. Davis had a great summer league and okay preseason, and he looked bad as a back-up center, and then he got a slow start coming off of the bench. In last year’s train wreck, his significant injury didn’t get much attention, he got hurt just before Tim Thomas did, and he ended up missing about 1500 minutes or more of NBA experience. Then he got the nod over both Fazekas and Powell, and it’s worth remembering that he was a Dunleavy draft pick, while both of those guys were scrapheap free agents, more or less. Fazekas was very fun to watch, but it’s all the kind of stuff where you’re just trying to amuse yourself in a hopeless season and looking for a diamond in the rough. Those kind of guys are fairly interchangeable, until you come across the real thing, like a Bobby Simmons—and what’s up with him these days?
by citizen zhiv on
Oct 23, 2008 8:33 AM PDT
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Oh... wait... a Bobby Simmons Watch?!
I don’t go back far enough with you guys… but oh, yeah, I remember him, he was the one who could play defense and had that sweet little baseline game. Interesting. Is that big dopey contract done? Could he come back our way? More important, is he happy? (Where is he anyway? Did he move this offseason?) I guess I’m scraping the bottom of this thread with my inanities but it all seems relevant now that Zhiv’s given up on Fazeke. I think, though, that the wordsmith is right in that mini-analysis of Davis3 vs. Powell and Nick. He’s MD’s pick and he’s also better than the other two, but DJ might be the best of all. I’ll say it again, the roster’s really deep.
On another note, should Mike Taylor play some d-league? He stays on the roster, he wouldn’t be far away physically or mentally (not for me anyway). What about Jordan?
by swamigusto on
Oct 23, 2008 9:00 PM PDT
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Bobby Simmons...
Bobby is now a New Jersey Net.. and for $22 million over the next two seasons, I don’t think he’ll be headed this way, anytime soon.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on
Oct 24, 2008 11:53 AM PDT
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