Clippers Looking to Trade Kaman?
by Jax on Nov 11, 2008 9:24 AM PST
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PrintCaught this article this morning from Peter Vescey in the NY Post. If true, it seems as though MDSr is actually doing something as GM that could help the team. I had mentioned in previous posts that I thought the Clippers would be better off with a traditional PF rather than two centers. There are a number of angles here. First, interesting that they are seeking to move Kaman here. Doubt they resign Camby in two years, so it would seem that someone has decided that they can't win with Kaman.
Second, this appears to reflect a realization within the Clippers that they need more range and athleticism from the PF position, and that this would help them more than the positives that go along with the twin towers approach. I would speculate that this attitude might be coming from BD.
Third, since Kaman's contract is not horrible by current NBA standards, and since he's a 7 foot center, the Clippers might be able to get someone halfway decent for him. I suspect that they will seek someone younger with upside, but that could create salary issues. (Maybe they can wrestle Philly's newly-signed PF away . . .) Let the speculation begin.
In any event, I see the Clippers trying to leverage their assets as a positive trend, whatever the outcome.
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Too bad it isn't true
And what do you suggest that the Clippers do for a center in two years, after Camby’s contract runs out? Maybe you’re thinking that they’ll be beginning the DeAndre Jordan era by then? Wouldn’t it obviously be better to keep Kaman at his affordable rate, let the Camby-Mobley-Thomas contracts expire or make trades with them, and let Thornton, Gordon, and Jordan develop? Kaman for four years, Baron Davis for 5.
With anything from Vecsey, the first place to look is how it might benefit the Knicks or the Nets, and then the Eastern conference. Vecsey’s thought process is pretty obvious: the Clips lose their first 6, now Camby’s back, maybe they want… Zach Randolph? Yeah, there you go.
It’s always going to be something that benefits the other team and really doesn’t help the Clippers. Except now, with Dunleavy, the Clips don’t give players away for the other team’s benefit anymore—they make deals and use their money for their own benefit. So, ridiculous FElton notion aside, if the Clips were to think about trading Kaman, who could possibly fit into their longterm plans?
I also don’t think it’s about how “they can’t win with Kaman.” The trick is to turn Kaman into a 4th or 5th banana, which he might already become if Thornton and Gordon step up. So the goal is to think about what the Clips might do with the expiring contracts or 2010 capspace money, replacing Camby-Mobley-Thomas with a star.
But you know all this.
Zhiv, as I mentioned in response to your post responding to the other fanpost on this
and as I indicated above, I don’t know whether it’s true. You are adamant that it’s not and that Vescey is simply a liar, so I’ll defer to you on that.
HOwever, I respectfully don’t agree with your take on what’s best for the Clippers (i.e., I don’t “know all this” as you conclude your post).
In the unlikely event that you’re wrong and it is true, and in answer to your question, I suspect that the Clippers would be thinking that they could trade Kaman for a good up and coming PF and worry about trying to find a serviceable center in two years instead of trying to find that good up and coming PF in two years. To me, this makes some sense because I think that if the Clippers are going to be a running team, as it appears they are trying to be with BD at the helm, having two centers as starters might not be the best way to accomplish that. If they are going to be a running team, they need to be a running team. They have to pick their poison IMHO. I don’t think that trading Kaman would necessarily be a bad deal for the Clippers. Having said that, could they get someone comperable? Don’t know, and I wouldn’t trade him unless I could.
Also, some of Kaman’s comments recently have been pretty disappointing. He doesn’t seem very positive abouit the Clippers. Maybe that has something to do with it (again, if it’s true, which you’ve assured us it’s not, so this is all just sheer speculation).
Interesting discussion in any event.
My bad
As I said on the other thread, I didn’t realize that you weren’t generally suspicious of Vecsey.
I’ll consider the up and coming PF possibility below.
by citizen zhiv on Nov 11, 2008 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Seems impossible
That someone would be so stoked to trade Chris Kaman for Zach Randolph, and yet here I am commenting in such a Fanpost.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Who is "stoked" to trade Chrs Kaman for Zach Randolph? Certainly not I.
I wouldn’t make that trade. I would, however, consider trading him for an up and coming athletic PF as I said in the initial post.
What say you, John R? Would you trade Kaman or would you stand pat?
If you wanted to make the discussion interesting
You would come up with a list of these mythic PF’s that the Clippers could get for Kaman and then a person could comment on them. That would take effort, however, as well as expose yourself to specific criticism. Two things you have not shown fondness for doing in your comments.
In a vacuum would I trade Kaman? No. They have the PF they need in Camby. Is it possible to conceive of a perfect storm scenario in which trading Kaman would be beneficial? Of course. There is no evidence whatsoever that they can’t win with Kaman, in fact they HAVE won with Kaman. The best ever Clipper team to date prominently featured Kaman.
The Clippers’ problem, for now, isn’t the frontcourt, it is potentially a premier wing scorer. Thornton is looking the part for now and has clearly surpassed what the guy he replaced has output so far this season. If the Clippers make a trade, the obvious spot to upgrade is the 2.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Be nice...
Trade speculation is usually just that, speculation. The fact is, Vecsey is quite well-connected and I have no doubt that his Kaman rumor is based on SOMETHING, but the rest doesn’t really pass the sniff-test. “Zach Randolph would be ideal” – really? When the Clippers made inquiries about Randolph this summer, it was for cap space and they wanted the Knicks to throw in a pick to make it happen. Now, suddenly it’s ‘ideal’ to give up Kaman for a guy they were unwilling to give up anything for a couple months ago?
The purely hypothetical blue sky Kaman trade talk is fun and all. How about Kaman for Michael Beasley and James Jones? I’d do that trade, but I’m pretty sure the Heat would not. Kaman for Millsap and Brewer and Korver? Even there, Millsap would have to be re-signed this summer.
I agree with Jax that it’s not unwise for the Clippers to explore the possibilities. Kaman is probably their most interesting trade asset right now. Kaman 2.0 is underpaid at $9.5M and centers are in short supply. You might be able to get something interesting for him. But you’d need to get a power forward and hopefully a wing (or a prospect) in return. There are 29 other teams out there… maybe someone has an interesting package in mind. But obviously, even if these sorts of discussions are going on, however back-burner they are, it’s better for the principles involved if it doesn’t get out in the press.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Nov 11, 2008 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks Steve for reiterating
that there is no need to attack each other on this blog. I think that there’s a bit more to it, however, than just asking us to be “nice.” The proper term might be “respectful.”
I found my comment to be respectful, but not nice
You have historically been loath to offer specific fixes to go along with any of your cricitisms and I stand by it. I didn’t call you any names or anything else.
Among other things, it is your failure to offer reasonable alternatives that I find distasteful about you.
Respectful, but not nice.
But again note, your last two comments have been about ME, and you still haven’t proposed any trades that you would do, the Clippers would do, their proposed trade partner would do, and are legal under the cap. This would be another thing that I do not appreciate about you. Your penchant for making things about me, rather than the subject at hand.
Respectful, but not necessarily nice.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
John R, there's no need to
drag this discussion down into the morass of your lack of affinity for me personally. I haven’t insulted you, and I disagree with your assertions about me. If you’re not interested in the topic discussed, why not post somewhere else. Frankly, I don’t think anyone else cares.
If you would read my post, the point of the post was not to list a number of PFs but rather to discuss the possibility that the Clippers might be interested in moving Kaman and what that might mean about their philosophy going forward. Apparently, that’s not good enough for you. I’m truly sorry that I’m not able to provide you with the specific posts that you think I should be making. Apparently I’ve failed you.
I find alot of things distasteful about you, John R, but I don’t have the time that you apparently do to raise them in a blog and again, I don’t think anyone else here is interested in this subject.
Having said that, if you seriously want to get into a discussion about your feelings for me, feel free to summon the courage to contact me directly instead of wasting everyone else’s time.
Steve has my information.
Is that it?
Beasley and Millsap? Have to be able to do better than that.
Let’s pretend for a moment that we’re a team with some pride, one of those teams that think they deserve other teams’ best players while giving up very little.
What about Al Jefferson? The Wolves drafted Kevin Love, and having two PFs is probably worse that having Kaman and Camby. I don’t think that I would send Kaman in a deal for Kevin Love, but maybe I could be convinced.
The guy I like is Stoudamire, and going after him with our capspace. It won’t happen I don’t think, but it would be good for the Clippers. It would be nice to sign LeBron too, of course.
The goal for the Clips is to get to the playoffs with Baron Davis and the team they have now, compete and make some noise, get improvement from their young guys, and turn into an attractive destination for an elite free agent.
by citizen zhiv on Nov 11, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
I for one, think Peter Vecsey is not lying. He talks about “his” paper clips. Do any of you know that he is a clipper fan. Also, i dont disagree with this, as much as i like Kaman, i think we do indeed need a real “4” who can bang with the best in the west. I would love zach randolph, maybe if we throw in mobley we can get someone else in return. This enables gordon to get more mins and makes us more dynamic cuz we would have inside and outside game…
It wouldn't surprise me
If Clipper management pulled a move like this… at least wait until we get to 500 before throwing his name out there. I would be pissed if I was Kaman.
More BS from a washed up reporter
They Clippers never offered a 2nd Rounder for Zach, and the Knicks never turned it down. Yet that is what Peter reported over the summer.
For hypotheticals, this trade is unwise and unlikely. MDSr. has always said that nobody is untouchable. I’m sure that goes for Kaman. In the last two games we have seen Kaman and Camby clean up on the defensive boards and block a lot of shots. We have also seen Kaman get out there and run with BD. Looks like they are starting to gel.
I can’t imagine why Dunleavy would blow this twin towers thing up 4 games into it.
I’m with Zhiv. D’Antoni decided he wants Kaman, so Vescey created this story.
F-Elton!
For the record...
If I’m reading the article correctly, it’s not D’Antoni who theoretically wants Kaman – it’s Larry Brown. The logic is – Brown wants a big to help Okafor, the Clippers are shopping Kaman, the Clippers don’t want anything the Bobcats have, the Knicks enter the picture in a three team deal. I think.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Nov 11, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
You are right
I hadn’t read the article prior to my comments because Jax didn’t link it.
See what you caused, Jax?
F-Elton!
Ok, I see it
but I never look there
F-Elton!
ATIII disagrees as well
Despite writing on the Laker Blog now days, it looks like ATIII just might still have a soft spot for the Clips. He reported (in the Laker Blog mind you) that he would be shocked if Kaman was traded and backs up his claim with some nice insider, background information:
http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/11/kaman-trade-would-be-shocking/3894/
Fear the Beard!
by Fasten Your Seatbelts Gang. on Nov 11, 2008 11:34 AM PST reply actions
Horrible trades
Kaman for Randolph? LOL uh…ok. Dunleavy would have to be an idiot to do that trade.
The fact is, they’d only trade Kaman if they were getting a top flight post player (since Camby has no post game) and nobody is trading top flight post players. That’s why the only speculations involve players like Randolph with TONS of baggage.
Yea, let’s trade a true center with real abilities for a lazy fat guy who plays no defense and is a black hole…sounds like a plan.
The Clippers would have no scoring in the post
Ask the Warriors and Bulls how that is going.
I like J Rich, but the Clips have a lot of wings already.
F-Elton!
If the Clips really needed a PF
they could just sign McDyess, though I think he wants to go back to Detroit.
F-Elton!
I think the only way the clippers would do a zach randolph for kaman trade is if they get jamal crawford back as well. I might consider crawford and randolph for kaman and mobley. I remember during the summer when that trade was brought up so the clippers might be exploring it again, but this time the knicks also want kaman included in the deal. The only problem with that trade is we rid ourselves of the 2010 free agent sweepstakes, and that team with crawford and randolph will probably be good enough for the playoffs, but it doesnt sound like a championship contender to me..
I wouldn't do anything at the moment
the team seems to be gelling and you don’t want to screw that up with a trade. The only trade I could see the clips doing is one involving either Mobley or TT and that would be more towards the trade deadline. And I definitely don’t see us trading Kaman.
yeah i wouldnt do anything right now. If another team actually offered us (as if I have a say) something than of course we shall consider but theres no point in trying to make up trades for kaman. The best player In my mind we can get is probably shawn marion and his production has long dropped. We certainly wouldnt go for snack randolph which is why i call BS on the article. We couldve gotten him for free if we wanted to but to give up chris ? no sense, at all. If anyone we should b e trading camby not kaman. Camby is not in out long term plans. Hes already 34 if we do happen to resign him he’ll be more like dikembe than camby. Jamal Crawford is useless, I want david lee. If the heat are desperate for a canter i would consider michael beasley. Afterall, they are lacking a point guard and a center while we have 2 centers and a point guard…
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