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Sacramento 103 - Clippers 98

Well there you have it.

We've made lots of excuses for this Clippers team this season.  They didn't get a chance to gell in training camp because of all the injuries.  They opened with a really tough schedule. 

But when they faced a supposedly inferior opponent two weeks into the season, they played as if they simply didn't care. 

From the opening possession, the Clippers played essentially no defense.  They were completely unable to get stops when they needed them the entire game.  The only reason the game got close in the fourth quarter was because of LA's red hot three point shooting - they made 7 of them in the period and 10 for the game.  But that's no game plan.  You have to be able to stop people, and the Clippers allowed the Kings to shoot 52.5%.  And it's not just that the Kings were red hot - they got layups and wide open jump shots throughout the game.

There were so many things we thought were givens that turned out to be wrong, at least for this game.

  • During free agency this summer, we thought it was a given that Baron Davis was a far superior player to Beno Udrih.  Well, for this game at least, it looked like the Clippers signed the wrong guy.  Udrih scored 10 as the Kings raced to a 7 point first quarter lead, and when he nailed a crucial baseline jumper in the fourth, he had a career high 30 for the game.
  • We thought it was a given that Baron (facing weaker defenders) and Kaman (facing a team against whom he's always plays well) would have big games.  Well Baron finished with 12 points on 4 for 15 shooting, and Kaman had his worst game of the season, finishing with 8 points, 6 assists and 4 turnovers.  Take the play where he caught a pass all alone on the right side of the basket and rather than a two handed stuff decided to shoot a leftie layup, and put it in the Clips Nation Glossary under 'Mr. Flippy.'  In the first half he caught a pass on his way to the basket, and rather than going straight in for the dunk, decided to cross under the basket for the leftie reverse layup - and he promptly traveled.  Hey, looky there - that's four points he just gave away in a game the Clippers trailed by 2 in the final minutes. 
  • We thought it was a given that the Clippers would be a good rebounding team.  Well, for the eighth time in eight games, the Clippers were outrebounded - 40 to 30.  Marcus Camby - 4 rebounds (only 2 defensive).  Chris Kaman - 6 rebounds.  So I guess the good news is that between the two of them, they had a 20/10 night - the bad news is we used to get that from just one guy.
  • We thought it was a given that the Clippers starters were pretty good, and that the team would struggle with their second unit.  Well, Ricky Davis finally broke through with 16 points and Tim Thomas had 12 points on 7 shots, so the bench came through better than in any other game this season.  But the starters STUNK.  Don't be fooled by Al Thornton's 20 - he was only 6 for 16 from the field.  Rookie Jason Thompson may have know that he wasn't really quick enough to stay in front of Al, so he gave him lots of room on the wing.  Al started the second half with 4 jump shots in 2 minutes - he made one of them.  He really wanted to drive on Thompson, but the rookie just kept giving him the space to take the jumper, and Al kept taking it.  All five Clipper starters had miserable games.

I really don't have anything else to say at this time.  There's just no excuse for losing to that team.

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Season is almost over

I know it’s early, but I believe there are crucial games in the season that determines the fate of the team; games that reveal the character of the squad and what they’re made of. This way a must win game in so many ways. And ClipperSteve is completely right; they played the whole game without any intensity whatsoever, as if we were going to walk all over these guys even though we’re the team that’s 1-6.

On paper, we are much better team, but it was Sacramento that played the game with passion and executed their plays flawlessly. We look like five guys that just met at a park and never played with each other before. Guys didn’t know where to go, and we ran isos after isos after isos. Ricky Davis, Mobley, and TT made some bailout shots or went one on three and forced a shot in to keep the game somewhat close. But realistically, this game was never close. We did not deserve to win this game, much less be in it. If Kevin Martin and Garcia were playing we would have lost by 20.

I never thought much of Reggie Theus before this game. But after watching the two teams today on the offensive end, it is clear that the Kings is an actual NBA team and we are not. Whether it’s Dunleavy’s brain-dead offensive sets or the players unable to execute any of his plays; our team looks lost and confused.

Something has got to give here. Mobley, TT, and Ricky Davis being on the floor at the same time may have something to do with our stagnant ball movement. But the personnel decisions are Dunleavy’s so the ultimate blame must be his. Our last offensive possession was a joke. Did we actually call two time outs to waste all of 23 seconds before having Baron force a desperation 3 with 2 hands in his face?

Watching the players’ body language on the bench today and it seems that they’ve already given up. When we were getting hammered in the third quarter and early in the fourth, TT and Ricky Davis were having a good laugh and gave each other a fist pounding when TT missed a three pointer. It was embarassing. We have absolutely no pride.

With the effort we put out tonight, even Golden State without Maggette, Monta Ellis, or Al Harrington can destroy us. Nellie can enjoy a good laugh at our expense. San Antonio is much too disciplined, they can probably beat us even without Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. Oberto can probably score 40 on us and grab 20 boards.

If this team loses the next two games to go 1-9 before hitting on the road, the season is over. We would have to play .600 ball the rest of the season to even finish near .500. And if this team have shown us anything so far this season, it’s that they’re not capable of that. There won’t be any reasons to go to the rest of the games this season unless you’re there to see NBA superstars dunk on the Clippers like in the bad old days. Maybe we can challenge the Clippers record for futility…and win less than 12 games this year. That’s a more likely scenario at this point than us making the playoffs. The only intrigue will be whether Dunleavy is fired by then or Baron demands a trade. Maybe the bookies should start a bet on that.

by MichaelCage on Nov 12, 2008 11:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

how do i fix typos?

There is no edit option after you post Steve? The actions button doesn’t seem to do anything…

by MichaelCage on Nov 12, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No edit option...

It’s intentional that there’s no edit option… the etiquette in the blogosphere is that a comment is part of the permanent record and therefore should not be edited – someone can’t go back and change something and say “I never said that.” I didn’t make that rule – I’m just saying that’s the reason.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 13, 2008 10:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So I have to be careful of what I say, this may hurt my political career.

by Qlippers on Nov 13, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Complete Embarrassment

That’s all there is to say about this game. What a complete disaster this season is turning out to be. Up until tonight, you could say the team was at least improving. Steve noted that upward trend just before the last game, which promptly led to our first W of the season. Now this…

This game was lost for two primary reasons: Baron and Team Defense.

Baron – Look, Baron is my favorite player and I’ve followed him for a long time now. When he’s at his best, he’s absolutely awe inspiring. But for whatever reason, there are times when he inexplicably doesn’t show up. It’s what keeps Baron from reaching the upper echelon of stars. Tonight was one of those nights. There is absolutely no reason that Baron should have gotten abused on defense the way he did against Beno. Beno got past him at will and either got an uncontested lay-up or went to the line. It was horrifying to watch.

Going into tonight’s game, we all speculated that the Baron-Beno match-up would favor us considerably, which should allow us to control the game. Instead it was the complete opposite. As Baron couldn’t handle Beno, nobody else knew what to do. On offense, Baron couldn’t get going, didn’t create for others and chucked up bad shots (0-4 from three). Even worse, I saw ZERO leadership or intensity out there from Baron tonight. He didn’t even look like he cared. That’s unforgivable.

Team Defense – The truth is, the game wasn’t even as close as the score. We got bailed out by Ricky Davis’ 3 point barrage and were lucky to even be in the game. The team flat out couldn’t get any stops. Beno walked down the lane uncontested on numerous occasions IN THE FOURTH.

But what’s even more concerning was that Beno’s performance overshadowed an even larger problem – the team’s complete impotence against the pick and pop. We saw some of this last game vs. Dallas, where the Mavs ran a pick and pop which resulted in Dirk being left WIDE OPEN time after time. Luckily we won anyway so nobody thought about it. Tonight, we left the popper open every single time and it would have killed us of Beno hadn’t decided to do so single-handidly. Even with Beno, the reason he got so hot was that early on, we couldn’t guard him off the high screen. Where’s the defensive rotation!?!?! The players look clueless out there on defense and there’s no excuse for that at all.

I can’t stress enough how upset I am about this game. It wasn’t just the loss, it was the way we lost. The team embarrassed themselves out there tonight and gave its fans a collective FU. Thanks for nothing Clippers.

by madglove on Nov 12, 2008 11:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Lotta Drama...

Half Empty: We got one win against Dallas, and maybe everyone (for the most part) got their hopes up. The truth is, we could easily be 0-8 right now. Dunleavy doesn’t have control of his team. Baron can be a great leader when he wants to be, but he will give up or have lapses at times. Which leads us to the Dunleavy/BD chemistry we all feared could blow up. It looks like they better come together fast, or this could real ugly.

Half Full: We could easily be 3-5 right now, with an abundance of beatable teams coming up on the schedule. The team is understandably yet to form an identity and is a work in progress. Give it time, and we’ll start that creep toward .500

by ghost_ride on Nov 12, 2008 11:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

regarding half full

We’ve played a Denver team without Carmelo and lost…2 games against Utah without Deron Williams and lost…we played this game against the Kings without Kevin Martin and lost. Yes, the schedule was tough but we’ve had alot of breaks with regards to opponents missing key guys due to injuries and suspensions and couldn’t pull out a win.

We will meet these teams again later in the season when they’re at full strength, and it will be interesting to see if our play will improve enough by then to overcome the return of their best players. If we lose to Golden State without Maggette, Harrington, and Monta Ellis, and lose the subsequent San Antonio game without Parker and Ginobli, it will be a clear sign that this Clippers team have packed it in. We can start the fishing season in November, before Thanksgiving.

by MichaelCage on Nov 12, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

Everything’s so messed up right now it’s dificult to have any optimism toward our prospects. Ever since the opener, this whole season’s felt like it’s been on tilt.

by ghost_ride on Nov 13, 2008 12:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

why?

why do i keep wasting my time in this bunch of losers who don´t give a F?.
this team makes me feel depressed… can´t i find anything better to do with my time than following this crap team? my life is plain miserable
until next game, clipper nation…

by edu_argentina on Nov 13, 2008 3:52 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

GUTLESS

This team has NO passion right now. Baron Davis appeared to be going thru the motions last night…and he still finished with 11 assists. And didn’t we all see the “clash” with Dunleavy coming?

I am soooo tired of the Cat Mobley post up play. The offense should be Baron and Kaman/Camby pick and rolls, mixed in with Thornton/Ricky Davis isos. Mobley, Thomas and Gordon should just hang out on the perimeter.

You would think at some point that, without Kevin Martin, the Clippers would just double Udrih. Perhaps this is a game where a Q. Ross could have helped.

it is not panic time, because the talent level is there. The bench produced. It was effort that let them down last night.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 13, 2008 7:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm…I know Q didn’t give us alot offensive options but he could have really helped on the defensive end

by Qlippers on Nov 13, 2008 7:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Camby

didn’t block out anyone the whole game it looked like and and for a guy supposed to be known for his interior defense it sure looked like he was doing a lot of spectating.

I only figured this team for a 500 team even with all the main guys back but I sure didn’t expect them to get outworked by a team who looks on paper to be inferior. I’m sorry guys but at some point the coach has to take responsibility when his boys don’t come to play.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 13, 2008 8:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Extremely Disappointing

Home loss against Sacramento without Kevin Martin.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 13, 2008 8:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Disgusted...

Utterly disgusted…I don’t even want to spend a long time posting. I’m at a loss for words. I really am starting to believe in the curse.

by Newtybar on Nov 13, 2008 8:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's the coaches personnel decision

Look…I know 3 pointers got us back into the game, but once we were there we needed STOPS.

Take the weak defenders OUT. Ricky D, thanks for the 3 point barrage and coming back to life. Take him out! Take TT out!

Slide over Camby, put Kaman back in, slide over BD, put EJ on Beno, and Al.

This would have good mix, someone who can keep up with Beno on defense, interior defense. On offense everyone on this lineup can score.

Why was Kaman on th bench the entire second half?

I’m disgusted.

by Newtybar on Nov 13, 2008 8:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

First off it's probably understood that I'm a Kings fan

But, as happy as I am knowing the Kings won (which is not to say I was happy with the game feed I had to watch until I gave up in the early 4th because I couldn’t take it anymore and was too tired to care), and knowing how depressing this loss was for the Clippers, I do have some other points to make.

  • Jason Thompson is difficult to defend for Al Thornton—He’s a legit 6’11 250 lbs guy—something which Al is not
  • Beno hasn’t played that well, ever
  • Salmons was so badly off that it’s amazing the Kings have won—that is the first game where the Kings have won and he was off offensively
  • The obvious difference in energy level was so obvious it should be embarrasing

Now, do I think the Clippers can be saved? No, I don’t know. Not the biggest fan of Davis, Kaman, Camby or MDsr. I’m not a big fan of Al Thornton either. The only player on the Clippers roster I have any affinity towards is Eric Gordon. Who hasn’t set the world on fire either. The Clippers are a mess. Some of it is a mess. Some of it is fixable. A loss like this can put a team in the right direction. Last but not least, good luck with the rest of the season. (Except when the teams match up the next 3 times.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 13, 2008 9:04 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Energy level

“The obvious difference in energy level was so obvious it should be embarrassing.” Well, I’m embarrassed. And I’m just a blogger. Are the players embarrassed? One can only hope so.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 13, 2008 10:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think this game broke us

This game singlehandedly deflated all of Clipper Nation’s spirit. We’ve had excuses all season and reason to hope. This game, we had none, and lost the game along with all our hope.

The atmosphere has become instantly stale and negative.

Let’s see how BD responds to this challenge. Good thing I put my jersey order on hold because if things continue he may not be here for long.

by Newtybar on Nov 13, 2008 9:44 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

So who's good in the 2009 draft?

How about BJ Mullins?

Time to surf NBAdraft.net and Draftexpress.com

by Qlippers on Nov 13, 2008 10:18 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

There you go

That’s two in a row. I was at the game last night and Jrue was just slightly—slightly—underwhelming. Very solid and looked good at this first glance, but my socks are still on. Let’s see what happens tonight. Bit undersized for an NBA SG, bigger than Eric Gordon, but not quite as strong and as good a shooter as the Hobbit. Better handle, however, more creative. Excited to see where this goes—I had the same reaction to Love last year in his debut, althoug big men are different.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 13, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Trust me on Jrue

Last night was a blowout. He’s actually played in two exhibitions that I went to, blowouts, but you could see how phenomenal he is. Malcolm Lee is also going to be awesome but since he’s not starting we won’t see as much of him.

He’s stronger than EG IMO.

I’ll be there tonight too.

by Jax on Nov 13, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where did my night go..

Thats what I think about on a morning after a game like that. Why am I so grumpy this morning? Why does it feel like I just left work and am now back? Oh thats right, I wasted 3 hours watching the Clips lose to Sacramento, just like I’ve wasted 21 hours of my life in since the season started.

Just a pathetic performance by Kaman. Starting center benched for the 2nd and 4th quarters…just unacceptable.

by HeardYouLooking on Nov 13, 2008 10:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Also, watching the games has elevated my blood pressure.

by Newtybar on Nov 13, 2008 10:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That was a big part of it

We were all pretty geeked up for this game—okay, tough teams are behind us, at home, everybody healthy, blah blah blah—and the flat effort and loss is crushing, deflating, demoralizing to the Nation. But that’s the good thing about the NBA—lots of games, things turn around. The hole is that much deeper, but the trick is to put together a good game, get a win, then do it again, over and over.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 13, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Time to get the young guys some time

I hate to throw the season in at this early junction but we need to get a harsh dose of reality. It is time to start playing our rookies and plan for a massive trade in the coming weeks or months. Let’s get Eric Gordon, Deandre Jordan and Steve Novak into the starting lineup. Over time they will become the backbone of the franchise along with Thornton and Baron. Sit Kaman, Thomas and Mobley until they can be traded. These three players have no intensity and do not deserve to play basketball for a living.

PG = Baron / Taylor
SG = Gordon / R.Davis / Mobley
SF = Thornton / Thomas
PF = Novak / Skinner
C = Camby / Jordan / Kaman

Let’s face facts – we can’t get any worse. If we are heading for a top level draft pick, let’s get our young guys more time on the court. Maybe next year we will have a better team. At least if we get annihilated every night it will be against our young guys and not our veterans.

by citizen bob on Nov 13, 2008 10:29 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't think

that it’s time to throw in the towel. Let’s give MDSr a chance to come up with something that works. He needs to motivate the team and figure out how to get the best out of the assets he has. And he does have a number of assets. BD needs to buy into his plan. At this point, I wonder if he’s interested in doing that, and I wonder why. As we’ve said, the team will go as BD goes. MDSr needs to earn his paycheck(s). This is his team. If he cannot do it, DTS has a big choice to make.

I didn’t see the game (I was at the UCLA game) and thus didn’t see the lack of energy. However, Beno Udrih should not be scoring 30 points on anyone. And we should not be losing AT HOME to this team. That’s ridiculous. Particularly with their top scorer out.

by Jax on Nov 13, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The players have not bought into Dunleavy's plan and neither have I

We need to play athletes that actually want to earn a contract – not players that have contracts and have become complacent. I wish Thomas, Mobley and Kaman were more motivated – but lets face facts – they are not and from past history will never obtain the level of intensity to become elite. If we cannot stop anyone, we need to outscore them. Novak can score and wants a contract. Gordan can score and is hungry. Jordan needs time on the court to get better. Playing unmotivated and lazy athletes is a sure way to lose games and piss off the Clipper fanbase. Trade them or sit them – do not throw this season into the trashcan AND not even develop our young players. Lets try out this strategy – we cannot do any worse. Last night will haunt me for months. Thanks Clippers.

ps. Dunleavy owns this team now. We cannot get rid of him. We need to change the players to fit his unusual and complex coaching style.

by citizen bob on Nov 13, 2008 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thomas & RD

I think both of these guys have shown the motivation this season. I have seen them come into every game fired up and ready to play. We can’t live in the past, these are the only two individuals since the beginning of this season who have shown me that they want to win, they’ve earned my respect.

Unfortunately for RD, his game hasn’t translated, but he has been working every night to improve his game.

TT – he’s played hard out there and I don’t think many here have given him enough credit for that.

by Newtybar on Nov 13, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

TT is a great player, but...

He just suffers from the same low IQ issue that Kaman suffers from. Defensive lapses from these two have killed us for the last few seasons. They dont contribute enough offense to overcome their laziness on defense. They both understand just one play – isolations. We need players who are constantly moving as well as crashing the boards. I truly wish these two could live up to these basic expectations, but they can’t. I have no control over that.

by citizen bob on Nov 13, 2008 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No towel, not at all

Way too soon to quit.

One thing was proved true last night—my theory about challenging guys by taking away their playing time. Eric Gordon was the first wing off the bench, and guess what—Ricky Davis starts hitting shots! Who would have thought that might happen?!

And Kaman sitting out down the stretch may prove motivational as well. Anything that pushes guys to go up strong to the basket, stay focused, and finish.

I’m fairly far down in the thread at this point, and all the issues seem to be pretty well covered, especially defense. I think that Beno is a solid player and he just happened to feel it. Everything he was going to throw up was going in the basket, complete zone time. And that happens: it’s called a career night. Unfortunately the mojo going on with that went along with one of BD’s subpar nights—and the ups and downs of BD is another topic.

But there’s one thing I haven’t seen (probably in here somewhere): TURNOVERS. I thought I was going to lose my mind in the first half, and it only got marginally better. Combine those with the missed layups, and giving up offensive rebounds, and it’s a death sentence.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 13, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When is it the right time to look at changes?

I understand your conservatism and your rationale for not throwing in the towel just yet. I wonder when you will finally accept that the Clippers need some fundamental changes. The team we have just does not look like a strong team ready to compete in the West. We lack a certain toughness that just can’t be learnt. We lack a sense of team play that the Clippers have never had and are very unlikely to develop under Dunleavy. The team we have right now is showing some glaring weaknesses on both ends of the court and I wonder when Citizen Zhiv will accept that the problems are fundamental and not due to the lack of preseason training camp. Will we ever reach that point? I want to be optimistic, but I cannot find anything to smile about right now. I have been a Clips fan for many years and suffered through brutal year after brutal year. Am I wrong to feel fustration that after all these years of failure the Clippers seem to be weaker than ever?

by citizen bob on Nov 13, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Last year I was a lone voice in the wilderness

Other fans seem to be demanding competence this year too. A good sign. Hopefully MDSr will live up to his billing.

by Jax on Nov 13, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's Go Back to 06-07

…and give thanks for Clipper Steve.

We can get there: complete cynicism and devastation, where you give up hope and don’t want to watch the games any more and everything needs to change. We were fired up and ready to go when the team headed off to Moscow in October 06. By January 07, after just two short months, ClipperBlog was phoning it in and I was doing all my commenting on Emptywheel at FireDogLake about the Scooter Libby trial. It was a horrendous year, and a disgusting display of basketball, and I stopped watching, although I happened to see the future and hope of the franchise suffer a catastrophic injury shooting an uncontested layup. But Clipper Steve stayed the course and gained strength, and we looked ahead to better days.

So now we’re hurtling through a disastrous November. Let’s see if BD can pull the Clips out of the tailspin, but the ground is coming up fast. It could all be over well before Christmas.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 14, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We can't settle for this.....

…..kind of performance anymore. And from the attendance at games, it looks like the entire fan base isn’t settling for it either.

The excuses aren’t workable anymore. This team was put together primarily by Dumbloony and he’s the coach. From his track record, it’s unlikely he’s going to be able to motivate the players and get them on the right track. The future of this team is looking very bleak right now.

I know it’s one game in an 82 game season, but I think the significance of this one game is very telling, and this loss is going to be monumentally difficult to recover from.

by saxmanager on Nov 13, 2008 10:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

This one told us a lot.

We lost to a sub-500 team without their star player. This tells us that we are nowhere near playoff contention.

by Newtybar on Nov 13, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Our expectations were too high for this squad

Keep in mind that the 06-07 squad featured, cassell, mobley, maggs, brand , Kaman QRoss and TT…that team finished 40-42. Can we truly say that this team we have now is better? Camby is a step down from Brand, and Maggs’ reliable scoring has yet to be replicated by Thornton. I think the Clips can still attain a similar record. We’ll see. Our old guys are too old and our young guys too young.

I love LAC.

by oasisman on Nov 13, 2008 11:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Totally disagree

Our old guys aren’t too old. They’re all capable of being productive, and have been so in stretches this season. The problem is that they’re not gelling with eachother or with the coach.

It’s been a perfect storm of problems, starting with the injuries in training camp and continuing with the difficult schedule.

I harped on the fact that the lost pre-season was a problem, and now we all see why. At this point, the players are all frustrated and people are starting to point fingers.

by madglove on Nov 13, 2008 11:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ten years with Nine Lottery Picks

And this team is all we have to show for it. Unbelievable.

by citizen bob on Nov 13, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I Guess

We haven’t hit the lottery yet…

by ghost_ride on Nov 13, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I personally think the lack of a preseason issue is somewhat overstated

There are a myriad of issues. That one in isolation is not insurmountable.

by Jax on Nov 13, 2008 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Our record says otherwise

Sure “in isolation” it’s not insurmountable. But when you have 9 new players, including two of your best players, one of which is the PG that runs the offense, a preseason and training camp is absolutely essential. I don’t know how anyone can think otherwise.

Every coach, even Nellie, has a system. It’s absolutely essential for the players, particularly the point guard, to know the system intimately. Baron is coming from a system which is a lot less involved than Dunleavy’s. Which is all the more reason that he needed significant time to familiarize himself with that system, and familiarize himself with his teammates. He was unable to have that on-court time because of injuries. As a result, he suffered and so did his teammates.

On defense, the issue is virtually the same with Marcus Camby. He’s the anchor of our defense and he needs to know the rotations. He also needs to know his teammates’ tendencies and where the help is needed the most.

None of that happened and we’re seeing the results of that. This isn’t your local YMCA. This is the best professional basketball league in the world. The opposing team’s defensive schemes are sophisticated and can EASILY stop a team trying to freelance. And it can easily score on a team with no defensive teamwork. That’s why even a scrub team like the Kings, without their best player, scored on us at will.

by madglove on Nov 13, 2008 12:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't mean to say

that the lack of a preseason was not a problem for the first few games. It was. But that problem should be diminishing game by game. And the fact that BD wasn’t playing doesn’t mean that he was banished from practices, film, the coach, and the playbook.

You’re right, this isn’t the local YMCA. We are talking here about NBA veterans; professionals. Clearly it would have helped to have played together. That’s an issue. But they’ve been playing together now for a couple of weeks. This is but one issue of many in my opinion.

by Jax on Nov 13, 2008 12:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed that it's one of many issues

Like I said in my original post, it’s been kind of a perfect storm of problems for this team from the beginning.

But pre-season and training camp isn’t the same as playing together for a few games. If you ask NBA coaches, they’ll tell you that it’s really hard to make in-season adjustments because you just don’t get that much practice time. You’re traveling and focusing on the opponent and just trying to get the players some rest. It’s not the same as having 2 weeks at home to work on the offense and defense in a vacuum.

I’m not excusing the team btw. They need to man up and work harder. But the lack of a training camp is a problem that isn’t solved by time during the season. It’s basically starting one lap behind everyone else in a race. You don’t just make that up.

by madglove on Nov 13, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Better Said

It’s obvious there’s quite a few problems right now, so I think we can all agree on the perfect storm of problems w/ the team right now.

You seemingly made a good call pointing out that the lack of pre-season would come back to hurt us, but every time you try and give yourself credit it kind of diminishes that. Just a piece of advice, let other people give you props, it works out much better that way for you and everyone else.

by ghost_ride on Nov 13, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Caught a Camby audio clip from a few days ago

where he downplayed the preseason issue and put the blame on the tough early sched. Also saw his comments on the inside the clippers blog about the large number of sets MDSr has. Those comments were made before the Sactown debacle.

On another note, interesting that the Knicks have recently changed their GM and coach, and with the same exact team as last year’s train wreck (exceot for Duhon) they now have a winning record and are respectable (granted their early-season sched wasn’t as tough as ours).

by Jax on Nov 14, 2008 9:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Respectability

I think respectability is measured at the end of the season as opposed to 2 weeks in.

But sure, I’d take D’Antoni. Is he available? No? Too bad.

(Hard to give Donny Walsh too much credit yet, though just getting Isiah out of the office cut down on the lawsuits. But Donny’s pretty much sitting on his hands waiting for 2010 so far.)

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 14, 2008 9:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right - I meant "watchable," not "respectable"

The Knicks were unwatchable last year.

Having said that, I do think that the topic is an interesting one. The Knicks are now playing with confidence and poise, and D’Antoni appears to be using the players he has in a way that is working so far for them this year. Of course, it’s early and they will be playing better teams coming up. If this continues, it would reinforce in my mind at least the notion that good coaching and management are important ingredients for the success of an NBA team.

The Knicks as currently constituted could be a good case study for that proposition.

As you know, I wasn’t saying that the Clippers should get D’Antoni or even switch coaches at this time – in fact as you can see from my posts below I’ve been saying precisely the opposite. My apologies if you thought I was implying that.

Perhaps instead of “respectable” I should have said “watchable.”

by Jax on Nov 14, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

GM/Coach

Dunleavy did a good job in the offseason, both drafting and setting up the original plan, and then reacting to the surprising challenges. And Elgin officially stepped aside.

My own sense is that MD is smart enough about basketball to know some of his limitations as a coach. I think he wants to use his system, remake the team (a bunch of new guys, some promising youngsters), and make his 09-10 expiring contracts/capspace deals. He wants to see where he gets as a coach, but I don’t think he wants to coach forever. We’ll see how it goes. At some point he may start looking around for a dynamic coach with complementary skills. But there are a lot of factors at work here. The Knicks change with D’Antoni is instructive, and so is what is happening in Phoenix with Porter. One game at a time—we’ve had a couple days to recover from the disappointment of Wednesday night, so have the Clips, and let’s just get back out there.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 14, 2008 2:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What are you basing your "sense" on?

His record? As you note, we shall see. I hope you’re right.

by Jax on Nov 14, 2008 9:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The blinders have been opened

I used that excuse a lot, but agree now as well. I think we were just desperate in finding excuses for us not playing well. Trying to avoid the worst problems which could be either:

Dunleavy is not a great coach for BD
BD just isn’t going to show up.

by Newtybar on Nov 13, 2008 12:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, our old guys aren't too old

I admit, they aren’t. I just used it because it had a nice ring to it. However, it doesn’t hide the fact that our players simply aren’t too reliable. Any player except maybe baron and thornton could get 2 pts on one night, then 20 the next, and none of us would be surprised. What a team.

I love LAC.

by oasisman on Nov 13, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well that really sucked.

In many ways, this was the most discouraging loss of the season so far. ClipperSteve hits the nail on the head with his analysis. My two cents:

- Beno Udrih scores a career-high 30 on the Clips. Shameful. He looked like Tony Parker the way he was getting to the hole for easy layups. Dunleavy emphasizes playing defense. Oh, really? Let’s say you’ve got an opponent killing you with dribble penetration. How about you play a little zone defense to shut-down the lane. Duh. Not that I approve of intentionally hurting someone, but it wouldn’t hurt to lay a “hard” foul on someone like Udrih when you’re getting burned so bad. Just rattle his teeth a bit to let him know that you are still there and care.

- Hey Kaman, just DUNK the damn ball!

- Al has got range, but he’s much better when he attacks the basket. Hey Al, take it to the hole!

- It was nice to see Rickey D get hot. We’ll need more of that. You could also see him working hard on defense.

- Tim Thomas is a much better player when the Clips run. He really sucks in the half-court, match-up, post-up style offense that Dunleavy loves.

- Baron was AWOL and got punk’d by Beno f’ing Udrih.

- It’s amazing how fast Jason Hart has lost his job to Mike Taylor. Even with his current lack of experience, Mike Taylor is clearly a better athlete with more potential upside than Jason Hart. Given their contract positions, Taylor is a bargain.

- When the Kings played zone, the Clips offense ground to a halt. Again, exactly what kind of offense do the Clippers run? Well, it’s not working very well.

- This loss makes the Dallas win seem like a fluke. Yes, the Clips played well in that game, but really Dallas was kind of lame.

- Watching the game on TV, I always gag when I see those Clippers ads where the players swear that they will “bring it” every night. Yeah, right.

- The next few games are the real measuring stick for these Clips. They are all games that the Clips should and must win to stay relevant. We shall see.

Go Clippers!

by dtak on Nov 13, 2008 12:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm already putting money away....

To pay for the six expensive steaks I bet, when I was “confident” that the Clips would make the playoffs. Dtak, I’m in agreement….last night’s game stung like no tomorrow.

by Newtybar on Nov 13, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm done....

After last night’s agme, I told myself I was done with the Clippers… I’ve been a fan for close to 20 years, a season tik holder for a few of those years, so I’ve experienced the downs and the waaay downs, but for some reason last night’s performance just disgusted me more than any I can remember. This was an absolute must win for the Clips at home, against basically a JV Kings team… it’s one thing to lose to Kmart, Bibby, and Artest, but Udrih and Jason Thompson? Brad Miller probably woke up thinking it was 2004.

It was good to come here to see that people felt similarly and were not just accepting this as another loss and moving on, but it doesn’t help me shake the feeling that I’m already sick and tired of this team… tired of supporting a lifeless team that just goes through the motions… tired of Dunleavy’s boring a$$ stale offense, (imagine what D’Antoni could do with this squad)… tired of hearing crap from all my Laker buddies and trying to defend the indefensible… tired of Cat Mobley who is one of the worst 5 starters in the league… tired of seeing Kaman lumber aournd the court like the village idiot… tired of burning my hard earned money… tired of getting outworked night in and night out… tired of the Donalds cheesy ads in the LA times which somehow seem to always remind me of how much the Clippers suck… tired of watching Granger put up an MVP type year and wondering what could’ve been.

I’m sure somehow I’ll eventually get sucked back in as I always do… but for now, I’m just tired of investing my time and money into a team that gives me nothing but frustration and aggravation in return. Let me know how the rest of the season goes… you can find my tickets for Saturday on Craigslist.

by blowbyability on Nov 13, 2008 12:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hey ClipperSteve!

I will definitely back you if you use your eerie and depressing commentary now, after last night’s game.

Eerie – it as like watching the old – “never had a chance to win anyway” Clippers.

Depressing – They lost when they could have won, if Dunleavy had only punished those lacking effort, and laughing and smiling while losing. He should have benched those guys early on and played Taylor, Gordon and Davis way more minutes.

I feel your pain Clipper nation. I still feel it today. Not good.

by moKi on Nov 13, 2008 12:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wow you guys are sad

all you saying you are done with the clips. Well guess what we are the clippers you should expect some bumps in the road. If you wanted an easy ride then you should jump ship and go jump on the lakers bandwagon. If you really are going to give up on this team after one loss out of an 82 game schedule than really you don’t deserve to call yourself a clips fan. Yes I know that they were missing a key player. But in the end the record won’t say when we lost and when we won, it says how many total we won and how many we lost. We can easily be made up later in the season but that leaves no room to mope around and feel sorry for the team. This is clipper fan territory you didn’t come expecting it would be easy, if you did I am sure the Lakers would gladly take you and you can be another nameless laker fan taking the easy route. Being a clippers fan takes sacrifice so suck up the loss and move on we have a game on Saturday and many after that.

by bestclipfan on Nov 13, 2008 1:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Dunleavy has been here 6 years!

He hasn’t gotten it done. There is a lot of attention to this game because it was thought to be the easiest win out of the first 12. We’ll see what happens in the next 5 games. 1-12 is a real possibility.

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 13, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We can take losing and losing badly...

But what we won’t accept is lack of effort. The team quit last night period. Either the players have quit on Dunleavy or the coaching staff is not being heard at all. It was a gutless, spineless performance. That is why we’re upset. If we lose by 70 points to the Lakers but left it all on the floor, it would be one thing. But this is unacceptable. And I for one, will not be making excuses for this team or Dunleavy.

They have two more games to make up for this debacle in my opinion. Either we come out against Golden State and a depleted Spurs team with fire in the belly and blow them away or we start planning for the future and restructure the roster and coaching staff.

by MichaelCage on Nov 13, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds about right--a couple of games

After that it could be “same old Clippers,” which means some kind of surprising and twisted dysfunction that we can’t even imagine now.

One of the things that’s so disappointing about last night is that the Clips are healthy now. What happens when they hit a bump and some one gets injured? They’re already getting down to the finest of lines to have a competitive season, and it’s barely mid-November.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 13, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

The Clippers have always had their fair share of problems. The fans are finally getting fed up with the losses, but when we see a serious lack of effort like we did last night, it was like pouring salt on a wound. If they try hard and lose the fanbase will support them. When the lose and don’t seem to give a sh*t then the fanbase will come looking for blood. I would hate to be a Clipper player on Saturday – the fans are likely to be brutal to the team if they don’t seriously step it up. Lets not forget that this is not a high school team. They are professionals getting paid over $70 Miillion per year to do a job and they seem to take that for granted. This is unacceptable on every level.

by citizen bob on Nov 13, 2008 6:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There is never an excuse for not playing defense

Many years ago at a youth basketball camp in the Pocono Mountains. A young defensive minded coach from Army addressed our group.
 He said that you play defense with your heart and your feet.
I know the Clippers have feet………..Not sure about the valentine.

by 69knicks on Nov 13, 2008 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Being a longtime Clips fan...

I know it’s never an easy ride and I’ve seen my share of losses. As Michael Cage mentions, as a fan, I can take losses, and I can take bad losses.. as long as I can take some solace in the fact that the team played hard . Last night, the team played and acted like they didn’t give a crap… it was painfully obvious to those who were there and could see it on the court and on the bench.

Watching your team play should be entertaining, not painful. It should be like watching an action movie with a lot of back and forth and ups and downs… what I saw last night was a horror flick; my stomach knotted up and I was terrified every time I saw Beno Udrih dribble up the court knowing we had no shot to stop him. BENO F**CKING UDRIH. What are we going to do against Chris Paul or DWade?

Saying I’m done with the Clips is hyperbole born out of disgust… I know it’s only one game and I won’t give up on following this team and I’m definitely not going over to the darkside (Lakers). But until the team shows me that they can play with some heart/ guts/ a brain (really, I’ll take any of these) I’m done supporting them with my dollars. That’s my right as a consumer and as a fan.

by blowbyability on Nov 13, 2008 3:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow--everybody's pretty bummed out

I get it—I didn’t want to check in here last night or this morning, didn’t want to look at the paper, didn’t want to think about the whole thing. It’s an ugly time.

But let’s hang in there. Go out and get the next one. It’s just one game.

Go Clippers!

by citizen zhiv on Nov 13, 2008 3:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

indeed

we lost a very winnable game. However, this team is far from falling apart and it is still to early to give up.

by highriser on Nov 13, 2008 5:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

by the way...

being SoCal and all, i know most of us are too busy to live blog during the game on CS’ open threads….this was true during last night’s game…so I headed on over to SacTown Royalty and guess what!? Their thread count was up to 100+ when I arrived just before half time…It was fun joining the other team’s fan and reading their perspective…I recommend it…but also continue to post at Clipsnation’s game threads…

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 13, 2008 6:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

LOL...

Maggette…his team down by 4…only 3 mins left in the game…iso play…drives…throws up a wild shot…looks for a bailout…some things never change…

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 13, 2008 10:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

To make up for this....

…horrendous loss, the Clips are simply going to have to win about 16 or 17 of the next 20 games. Can they do it? I doubt it, but in my mind, that’s what it going to take to begin to salvage the season.

by saxmanager on Nov 14, 2008 12:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't say 16 of the next 17 maybe

12 of the next 15 you have to be some what reasonable in your expectations. That put us at about 3 games above .500 and from there we would just need to string together win streaks. But we will see should be an interesting game Sat. I am going to be there. If anything we will get to see alot of running. Hopefully we get a win and another win against OKC then we can get a win streak started.

by bestclipfan on Nov 14, 2008 7:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say 16 of the next 17.....

…..I said 16 or 17 of the next 20.

by saxmanager on Nov 14, 2008 8:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it would be better to win 50 of the next 51

I mean, if we can do that, we would be able to challenge the Lakers for supremacy in the Pacific…I would prefer that we go 51-0 in our next 51 games, but I’m just being realistic here.

by MichaelCage on Nov 14, 2008 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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