Pulling their weight - A quick look at the vets
by John R
on Nov 17, 2008 10:19 AM PST
42 comments
Cat Mobley:
08-09 13.5pts on 40.7% shooting 2.9reb 1.3ast
07-08 13.1pts on 43.3% shooting 3.7reb 2.7ast
Though most guys I will compare vs. Career averages, Mobley will be tracked year over year to be fair to his age. Cat is having his worst year ever from the field and also from the stripe. Rebounds are way down, blocks are way down and fouls are way up. Though his points are actually up, he is taking more shots to get there and getting to the line less. It might finally be time to let the old Blanket out to the moths. Its not the decline in production, per se, the stats don't tell the story of someone in a good place. Hustle stats are down AND efficiency is down. The story being told is of selfishness.
Ricky Davis:
08-09 8.9pts on 31% shooting, 32% from deep. 0.8FTA 3reb 3.6ast 2.1TO
Career 16.5pts on 44.8% shooting, 36.3% from deep. 4.0FTA 4.2reb 4.0ast 2.7TO
On the surface Buckets' story is a little different. His FGA are actually at the lowest of his career, but not significantly lower than last season. It just appears his shot isn't falling. Slumps happen and he may not have found a comfortable place yet. Unfortunately for the Clippers if Davis2 isn't scoring, what is he doing? With his attempts flat, assists up and turnovers down, I don't think its time to quit on him just yet because the evidence for ballhoggery or other undesirable behavior isn't there.
Tim Thomas:
08-09 17.2pts from 14.4FGA on 42.1% shooting, 30% from deep, 63.6% of his 6.3FTA. 7.6reb 1.7ast 2.3TO
Career 16pts from 13.4FGA on 43.6% shooting, 36.5% from deep, 75.6% of his 3.5FTA. 5.7reb 2.2ast 2.1TO
The story of TT this season is his scoring. Its up 1.2pts from his average and he is only taking 1 more shot from the field. In a vacuum this would be a very good thing. He is also getting to the line often, which would again be a good thing. Unfortunately like his deep stroke a year ago, his free throw shooting seems to have also vanished. He seems to have given up on that 3-ball since it is now only about 26% of his shot attempts vs 30% for his career. Its a good thing that he has recognized this and adjusted, but its a bad thing for the Clippers that it seems to have escaped him. Thomas' rebounding is up which is good and he has increased his scoring without wildly increasing his turnovers which is also good. Even though his absolute TO's are up, his TO% is down vs his career. I think you have to keep going with TT and hope he works out that FT situation. If the deep threat ever returns, he is actually a potent offensive weapon right now.
Marcus Camby:
08-09 11pts on 46.2% shooting, 84.6% from the line. 13.6reb 1.4ast 3.3blk 1.2TO
Career 12.6pts on 46.7% shooting, 67.9% from the line. 11.4reb 2.2ast 3.1blk 1.8TO
In contrast to Cat, old man Camby gets the vs career treatment because his production isn't falling off. Camby is largely doing what he does. The decrease in scoring is deceptive; he is just taking fewer shots and with the increase in FT% he is actually more efficient this year. His rebounding is stronger than ever. The nuance here with Camby is that for now his minutes are way down. That's bad for the Clippers, though its not really his fault. If he can get into that 32mpg range, it will be great things.
Chris Kaman:
08-09 13pts from 10FGA on 52.8% shooting, 67.7% from the line. 10.4reb 1.5ast 0.8stl 1.9blk 3.5TO 3.2PF
05-06 13.1pts from 9.9FGA on 52.3% shooting, 77% from the line. 10.5reb 1.1ast 0.6stl 1.5blk 2.5TO 3.8PF
07-08 15.2pts from 12.1FGA on 48.3% shooting, 76.2% from the line. 12.3reb 1.8ast 0.6stl 2.7blk 2.8TO 3.1PF
Lets call 05-06 Kaman, "Good Enough to Win a Playoff Series Chris". 07-08 Kaman, "Kaman 2.0". And 08-09 Kaman, "Still Kaman 2.0". First lets talk defense since that is pretty clear. You are getting the best defense Chris has ever played, from a traditional stats standpoint. His rebounds are flat vs GETWAPS Chris, but now he has an all-time rebounder starting next to him. His steals are up period. His blocks are up vs GETWAPS Chris, but down vs 2.0, but again, all time shot-blocker next door. His personal fouls are also way down from GETWAPS Chris, which is underrated in importance. His assists are also up, and they deserve to be even higher. Chris IS hitting the open man on kickouts, but what does it matter if its Ricky Brickets or Ballstopper Thornton? You just can't get an assist there.
So now its time for a little basketball mad-scientist next door. I am going to take away one of Kaman 2.0's missed FGA and make it a maddening turnover instead. Viola, Kaman 2.0 is now committing 3.8 turnovers per game, but shooting 52.2% just like GETWAPS Chris and Still Kaman 2.0. Is that turnover maddening? Absolutely. Is it functionally any different than a bad shot? Nope, its still ball other way.
Chris Kaman is fine. His one extra maddening turnover per game is not causing the Clippers to lose by 20. Though I will concede that it is obviously maddening. A reasonable person could argue that Kaman should be playing better, but it isn't fair to say he is playing worse now than before. He is right where history shows that he belongs. GETWAPS Kaman was good enough, and this version is better.
As an aside since the bigs are out of the way, Kaman, Camby and Thomas are averaging 24.9rpg. The Clippers are averaging a hair under 40 as a team. Let's step it up everyone else.
Baron Davis:
08-09 17.5pts on 37.3% shooting, 26.9% from deep. 3.9FTA 3.6reb 8.6ast 1.7stl 2.1TO 3.9PF
Career 17.3pts on 41.3% shooting, 32.4% from deep. 4.4FTA 4.1reb 7.4ast 2.0stl 2.8TO 2.9PF
Well, well, well. Ast/TO is pretty much all that is to the good, otherwise this year's BD is not contributing much. And that ast/TO might be tricky as well. Is his higher inclination to pass really a good thing? He is completely inefficient offensively, isn't getting to the line and is lagging in the hustle stats. He's yet to record a block this season. That foul situation isn't nice either. Reaching like that is another mark in the doesn't care column, besides the 1.5 points it puts on the ledger for the opponent. Also some scrub named Udrih burned him for like 100 points.
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Mobley's Fallaway Shot
Great stuff here.
Awhile ago I read Bill Simmons’ writing about the Lakers and Kobe, and how he was glad that Kobe didn’t have the time over the summer to really perfect the fallaway postup move that Michael Jordan got by on for the last few years of his career. Watching the last couple of games, I realized that Mobley obviously did have the time to put a ton of work in on this shot. He had it in his arsenal before but now he’s shooting it well, and there have been times during this death march that he has been very effective. But the fact that this is a go-to shot for the Clippers and Mobley just shows the kind of troubles that they’re having: he’s a solid veteran SG very much on the downside of his career, and Cat ain’t MJ or Kobe.
Oh well. If the ship doesn’t right itself very soon, it’s just going to mean that Eric Gordon plays a lot more, sooner rather than later, kind of like Thornton next year.
by citizen zhiv on
Nov 17, 2008 11:26 AM PST
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Kaman's problem is handling passes from his teamates and finishing
I don’t know if that falls into the turnover column, but it probably makes his mates think twice about trying to stick it in to him again. So the ball just moves around, unsure of where it is going.
Can anyone tell me what the offensive stategy is? Is it posting up? Baron penetrating? Clearing out for Thornton?
I have no idea what I am watching offensively.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on
Nov 17, 2008 12:07 PM PST
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He's looking like Kwame Brown....
Butterfingers…..
by Newtybar on
Nov 17, 2008 12:13 PM PST
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If he is dropping passes or not getting the ball
Its not costing him shot attempts, free throw attempts, assists and certainly not turnovers. If he was dropping the ball that often his turnovers would be through the roof.
And if the problem was finishing, its not any different than it ever was. His FG% is very consistant. If finishing is your criteria, Kaman is just about the only one shooting a proper percentage, with Thornton and Camby in the ballpark. Gordon also gets a pass because so many of his attempts are 3’s that it sufficiently boosts his TS%.
If anyone is thinking twice about going in to Kaman, they gotta go.
If the plan is Baron penetrating, it would be nice for him to start.
I think what you are watching offensively, and defensively, is Baron Davis trying to prove a point.
Heh, I just noticed Kaman and Davis1 have precisely the same number of FGM going into this game. BD has taken 37 MORE SHOTS to get there.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 1:21 PM PST
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Admittedly Unscientific
But if we are watching the game and feel like screaming at Kaman, is it not reasonable to assume that his teammates have a similar reaction?
As I said in the preview, his numbers from the Golden State game look terrific. 15 points, 13 rebounds, 7 for 11. But forget the stats for a moment, you watched the game. Did he play well? How many rebounds did he miss, despite having position? Amazingly on that 7 for 11, at least three of the misses were complete gimmes.
I do like that his shooting percentage is back up to the GETWAPS level. And maybe I’m asking for too much. But I think his lapses are more costly than ‘too bad, that was a turnover.’ Look at it this way – a missed 15 footer deep in the shot clock and a missed layup he should have dunked all alone under the basket are statistically identical. But they have a distinctly different impact on the fan base, and I’m suggesting they have a different impact on the team as well.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on
Nov 17, 2008 2:21 PM PST
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That's probably all true
Everyone would certainly like to see him play better.
But in the scheme of things causing 20 point losses, the perception of Kaman doesn’t seem to be matching up with the reality. Its the backcourt that isn’t delivering. I’d start EJ now, but he’s still a very mixed bag and for everything you gain you give up something else. If BD doesn’t get it together, it doesn’t matter what else happens. This team isn’t going anywhere.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 2:38 PM PST
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agreed
Kaman alone is not producing a minus 14 over 9 games.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on
Nov 17, 2008 3:10 PM PST
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It would be wonderful
if basketball were like baseball and you could analyze team performance solely based on stats. Unfortunately, that is not the case. If as CS alluded to BD doesn’t trust Kaman then they will not get him the ball or will hesitate to do so. Much of this is unconscious, which anyone who plays the game can verify. If the play selection is not conducive to BD’s talents and to the talents of the team, you will see poor performance that may or may not be translated into statistics. To be successful in basketball, a true team game, the personnel have to mesh, the personnel have to fit with the system, they system has to be designed to bring out the best in the team, etc. These professional players can sense when the system doesn’t work or is not suited to their talents.
Stated another way, you can’t simply look at statistics and decide whether this player or that player should be replaced. You have to watch the games. When watching the games, it’s painfully obvious to me that the offensive schemes appear ill suited for the team, that the players are rebelling against that system, and that the players do not think much of the system. Who is at fault? Not sure yet. Too early to tell.
Let’s step back before laying blame on any one player, any one group of players, and let MDSr try to implement what he being paid $6 M per year to implement. This is his team. He owns it. Let’s let him run it for a while before casting aspersions.
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 4:01 PM PST
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Chemistry is extremely overrated
Its been proven many times. Players perform the same way under different systems, different coaches, different teammates. In the NBA, they always produce the same until they get too old to do so. This is why Camby’s stats haven’t changes as he has moved around the league, changed positions, changes roles. On and on. To believe otherwise is to simply believing in magic.
It appears especially dishonest for you of all people to encourage patience with MDSr. It again goes to my hypothesis that you want the Clippers to lose. You are enjoying this.
Only one players’ stats are significantly down that can’t be explained by an obvious external factor, like age. If the offense appears disjointed its because it is being actively sabotaged by the one player who can control it.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 4:34 PM PST
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There you go again
Now I’m “dishonest” because I think that it would make no sense to change horses midstream.
I don’t enjoy watching my team lose. I don’t enjoy seeing MDSr fail. However, I’m not surprised. I do think that if he does not succeed this year, the Clippers should get a real GM and a young, up and coming coach.
Disagree that players perform the same everywhere. Only great players do (without taking into account age) – such as Camby or (dare I say it) EB.
Now your theory is that BD is sabotaging MDSr’s great offense. LOL!!!!! You’ll defend the guy to the ends of the earth.
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 4:39 PM PST
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I see on Clipperblog you again resort to lies about me
Its fine. I clearly never said what you claim I said, but everytime a discussion isn’t going your way thats how you go.
In your very comment above contradicts itself. You say you shouldn’t change horses mid-stream (even though you have been advocating nothing but that for 2+ seasons), but you say you should change the coach and GM.
You can disagree if you want about players performing the same everywhere. You are simply wrong. Incorrect. In error. Its proven time and again. Just because you choose to ignore the mountains of evidence, doesn’t make you right.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 4:43 PM PST
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What?
I say that I would not change horses in midstream, meaning that they should not get rid of him so early in the season. Give him the year. If he’s successful, then he can keep both jobs. If not, they should find a new GM and a new coach (i.e., replace MDSr at that time). I’m quite certain you understand that.
Please show us the “mountains of evidence” supporting your theory that BD is “actively sabotaging” the Clippers eight games into the season.
And please explain why you believe that the Clippers should trade BD now as you’ve said on Clipperblog today.
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 4:55 PM PST
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There you go again
The mountains of evidence refers to the statistical similarity a player will experience across seasons, not to Baron Davis. Either you are a very poor reader or you are doing this on purpose. If you are a very poor reader I apologize. If you are doing this on purpose, well that is what it is I guess.
As to the location of the evidence, you know where it is. It has been pointed out to you many times before.
As for trading Davis, again, its called hyperbole. The “start Hart” part of the comment should have tipped you off that I wasn’t being serious. To the reader who isn’t full of irrational hate for me, I’m certain it was quite obvious.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 5:15 PM PST
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The fact that
You’re already blaming players 8 games in is disappointing. Let’s just let it play out.
Otherwise, you’re wearing me out. Congratulations.
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 9:28 PM PST
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Also, on your closed-mindedness
Or is it single-mindedness?
I see from your comment that you don’t consider the possibility that at the end of the season, it could all have been BD’s fault if the Clippers do not improve. And in that case in his role as GM, MDSr should trade him.
No matter what happens, you consider it the coach’s fault.
Unless what happens is success, and then its solely to the credit of the players, but the coach can consider himself fortunate and able to keep his job.
Just thought I should point out this major shortcoming in your thought process.
Also, its obviously changing horses in mid-stream since MDSr would have only been GM for one year (not even a whole summer!) and he still has years left on his coaching contract. No matter which of them you change, its changing horses mid-stream. Your irrational hatred for MDSr just clouds your ability to see the big picture.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 5:25 PM PST
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Unfortunately
I don’t have the time, inclination or interest to devote to your incessant arguments that you do. And I would again point out that your intense obsession with all things me is betrayed in the posts. No one is interested in that stuff. Too bad you don’t have the courage to just call me directly.
I would note however that you keep reading things into my posts that just. aren’t. there. I apologize for having the audacity to question your interpretation of your hand-picked statistics or the application of them to basketball in the way that you do.
Briefly, however, I haven’t indicated that I blame the coach for anything. And of course I don’t hate him (unlike your supreme obsessions with Maggette and EB). Again, let’s let the year play out. MDSr wanted to be GM and coach. This is his team. Obviously mid-stream means mid-year. Got it? Let’s just see what happens, shall we?
When I asked you what you thought of how MDSr was doing, you said noncomittantly “about the same.” That of course means nothing.
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 9:34 PM PST
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About Baron Davis
…and getting it together.
I have a good friend who lives up in the Bay Area, grew up here and he’s probably a Laker fan if anything specific, but he watched a lot of GSW and was around a fair number of rabid GSW fans. He said to me, early on, that BD is going have 20 games a year when he’s phenomenal, 40 games where he’s good but he doesn’t take over, and 20 games where he’s disinterested and kind of lousy—and that’s not talking about getting hurt. The thing is, if you can get to the playoffs, then he’s going to show up for just about every game, and he’ll be phenomenal. So it’s about having a strong supporting cast, he’ll pull his weight and then some, but he’s not the guy who’s going to be steady and reliable. He’s the guy who throws it into overdrive once you’ve got momentum.
So let’s assume for a moment that this is true. It’s vague, but let’s say that it’s essentially correct. The thing that I take away is that the whole sequence of problems from the beginning of camp is a worst case scenario for this particular chemistry experiment, and the tough early schedule just made it worse. But we know all that. The thing is, BD is going to be BD, more or less, and the Clips have to find something solid to build on, something that doesn’t come from Davis1.
I guess my theory along these lines would be that playing Davis2 and Tim Thomas so much, along with too much Mobley, is killing the Clippers, but it would have been tough no matter what with the amount of time it’s going to take to work Camby into the mix. The alternatives are shaky—Eric Gordon, Paul Davis, and Steve Novak. But at least these guys are going to be ecstatic to get the minutes and give their best effort. If Udrih and Morrow and Milsap and others can go off against the Clips, there’s an equal chance that Gordon, Davis3, and Novak could provide a spark for winning, given the opportunity. My view is that Camby’s injury put the Clips on a steady diet of Tim Thomas, which is not the way to win games. Add to that handing over a bunch of minutes and shots to Davis2, without those opportunities being tied to production. I said before that Davis2 would play very differently once he saw that his ticket was stamped for the ride out of the league. He should be dying for the chance to get out on the floor, not expecting it.
Let’s put it another way. How much would Thomas and Davis2 be playing if Don Nelson was the coach? Would he be waiting on gingerly giving Eric Gordon a chance? If you’re not doing the job, sit down. That goes for Al Thornton too—let’s not forget the foul trouble equation that led to extra Eric Gordon in the Clippers only victory. Go ahead and start Steve Novak at SF—Nelly would do it. He’s glued Harrington to the bench and he’s starting Morrow and Azubuike.
Minutes are the only real motivational tool an NBA coach has. Start Steve Novak and Al Thornton will rip down 15 rebounds and get 30 points. Davis2 plays really well against Sac when Gordon moves ahead of him in the rotation, and then he misses shots and turns the ball over when he goes back to being the first guy off the bench. Who didn’t play at all in that one victory… I forget. Oh yeah, Tim Thomas. Just pretend he’s not there, rather than making us watch a team that relies on him for all of last season and this year’s hot start.
by citizen zhiv on
Nov 17, 2008 3:25 PM PST
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It might work
Or BD might look around at guys he considers scrubs and shrug the whole thing off anyway.
Why not extend the theory so far as to bench Davis1 himself?
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 3:45 PM PST
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I think it's safe to say that someone's made up his mind about BD after 8 games
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 4:03 PM PST
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My mind is never made up
But I do calls up like I sees em. For now, BD is seriously underperforming.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 4:27 PM PST
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Same as always
Good enough.
Uh oh, Jax is in full-on disruptive single-line commenting now. Here we go…
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 4:35 PM PST
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How can you say that with a straight face
On Clipperblog you’re shouting “TRADE BD, TRADE BD”
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 4:41 PM PST
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What is this, like 8 one-line comments in 2 minutes
You are clearly worked up. Take a deep breath and relax.
Its called hyperbole. Learn it. Right now, BD is a big part of the problem. His offensive inefficiency is wasting possessions and he is getting destroyed on defense. These are facts that just can’t be disputed.
My mind is never made up. But right now the signs aren’t clear that Baron Davis is helping his team, playing well, being aggressive, controlling the game, making his teammates better, or any of the other things he is paid to do. I WANT to like him. But right now, he isn’t delivering.
Its not MDSrs offense, or anyone but Davis1’s, that calls for him to often take PUJIT 3’s. He isn’t even connecting at a 30% pace. His mistakes and play are his own. There is nothing wrong with him owning that.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 4:47 PM PST
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I'm witnessing the same thing
Baron, not living up to the hype on offense and getting utterly destroyed on defense. He can’t get past the screens and looks about 1 step behind.
by Newtybar on
Nov 17, 2008 4:55 PM PST
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Relax people
It’s 8 games in. MDSr brought BD in. Let’s see if the player MDSr brought in, claiming he’s one of the best pgs in the NBA, will thrive under MDSr’s system an mesh with his new teammates. You cannot accurately judge a player, team or coach in 8 games.
You shouldn’t, however, be surprised that BD jacks up threes. MDSr isn’t. BD’s always done that, and he always will do that. It’s who he is, was and always will be.
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 4:58 PM PST
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Last resort
The primary part of my theory is the first section, which sets out expectations for BD. He’ll be great sometimes, good with a good supporting cast most of the time, and there are other times when he’s going to be poor.
By the way, none of this is a cohesive theory in any way, or even a very good one.
So the idea is to get a motivated group that is playing hard around him. That starts with the role players—with the wing rotation (more Gordon, less Mobley, let Davis2 earn minutes), goes to PF (minimize TT, use Paul Davis), and eventually extends to Thornton (consider playing Novak; let Mobley play some SF as in the Dallas victory, alongside Gordon).
The next level would involve Camby and Kaman. Are they going to be able to play effectively together? Are they ever going to rebound and defend in a dominating way? Where’s the missing link to getting the hustle rebounds, all of the boards gobbled up by Biedrens, Milsap, and others? The step here might be to start Paul Davis. MD already tried bringing Camby off the bench, with Tim Thomas starting, which didn’t work of course. It would probably be better to bring Kaman in off the bench—that would be pretty shocking. But it wouldn’t be surprising to see Camby and Paul Davis as a better defense and rebounding duo than Kaman/Camby right now. No offense there however. Let’s see what happens tonight, with Duncan and Oberto.
If the Clips had a more viable backup, it might be a strategy to send BD a message. But with the injuries, the Clips have already worked through the Taylor-Hart options, and they’ll be lucky just to be able to do the basic backup job if the Clips ever start playing well. We already saw enough of Taylor.
No, even with the stats, the best way to go at this point is to get some other guys going so that BD can feed off of the good energy and make things happen. That’s my opinion for the moment at least. I think that BD will put enough pressure on himself to get some results.
by citizen zhiv on
Nov 17, 2008 4:27 PM PST
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It's Still Early
But obviously a horrid start to the season. We’ve seen Dunleavy make some adjustments, albeit a little slowly so far. Let’s see if there’s any further tinkering tonight.
BD’s clearly underperforming early on. Some of it’s the injuries, some of it’s the inability of anyone else to step up or be reliable, some of it’s just that they aren’t all on the same page yet. One thing’s for certain, there’s no reason to play him 44 minutes when we lose by 20 points.
Mobley’s playing a bit too much, so is Tim Thomas, though 12 minutes is acceptable. As one scout put it, “The best thing the clippers can do is hire the nearest cab and throw Ricky Davis in it.”
The only two people performing how we expected or better are Eric Gordon, Marcus Camby, and Mike Taylor. With virtually all of the starters having holes, they are gonna need to improve pretty significantly or we’re just going to need some better players. Maybe another high lottery pick will help, but I’d rather not see us be a doormat this year.
by ghost_ride on
Nov 17, 2008 5:21 PM PST
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Is it too late to get DeAndre up in this house?
by Newtybar on
Nov 17, 2008 5:23 PM PST
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Seriously...
If we keep going at this rate, he better get some solid minutes in the 2nd half. Of course then we’ll have 3 + Centers, but what the hell.
Maybe we could be the Triple Towers w/ BD & EJ…
by ghost_ride on
Nov 17, 2008 5:39 PM PST
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Dear John R and Jax
Please knock it off. You’re turning Clips Nation into a platform for your own juvenile beef. I don’t know the history between you and frankly I don’t care. I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions on the Clips, I really do. But this back and forth is killing my experience with this blog. Can all of us please try to stick to basketball? It would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks for reading. Peace and love.
Oh me, oh my!!!! The Red Baron has come home!!
by Clipper T on
Nov 17, 2008 5:26 PM PST
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Yeah, I think CS needs to ban one of us
It does ruin his awesome community. Neither one of us is every going to stop. I’ve tried multiple times and Jax keeps coming back with the same stuff. I really try, but as long as he keeps putting words in my mouth and falsifying what he claims I said, I can’t let it drop.
If its me, so be it. Reading is good enough. I’ve enjoyed producing, but I don’t like having to destroy my own work like this.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Nov 17, 2008 5:36 PM PST
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i actually enjoy reading your debates with jax...
as long as it’s about basketball…
by cantthinkofagoodname on
Nov 17, 2008 6:27 PM PST
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Keep it about basketball
and you’re golden.
by Newtybar on
Nov 17, 2008 7:08 PM PST
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Unfortunately
John R just wants to fight. I’ve offered many times to have the guy just call me so he can take it off the board, but he never does. Again, John R, I welcome your call.
by Jax on
Nov 17, 2008 9:36 PM PST
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I turn my back for a minute...
When I saw the old “25 new comments” message, I had a feeling that John R and Jax were up to no good.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on
Nov 17, 2008 7:39 PM PST
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In the end, I think the John R./Jax "dialouge" is good for business
I vote against banning
F-Elton!
by mikey p on
Nov 18, 2008 8:20 AM PST
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John R/Jax is Jekyll/Hyde
Personally, I think they’re the split personality of the same person. I imagine that he is sitting at his computer right now, with his left and right hand punching his face from each direction.
But seriously now, the Clippers are bad but their awfulness shouldn’t make us feel so morose that we go for one another’s throats. Heck, if the players only showed as much emotions as the people on this blog we would be undefeated.
by MichaelCage on
Nov 18, 2008 11:11 PM PST
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