Clippers 108 - Oklahoma City 88

by Steve Perrin on Nov 19, 2008 9:58 PM PST in News Comment 44 comments

For one night - for a little over one half, to be precise - the Clippers were not the worst team in basketball. In fact, as they were dismantling the actual worst team in basketball, the Clippers looked like a pretty good team. Maybe it was just by comparison, but still. They had to fall behind by 15 before that good team showed up, but better late than never.

It's pretty difficult to explain the Clippers' shooting sometimes. Taking a gander at the shot chart for this game, in the first quarter Al Thornton made a three pointer and Baron Davis made a 16 footer, and those were the only baskets the team scored from beyond 2 feet. The missed 9 jumpers in the quarter. Then, in the second quarter, it was more of the same - 2 for their first 11 from outside of the paint. It was just brutal. But they battled back from that 15 point deficit behind some very strong defense (coupled with some pretty ugly OKC offense). Fortunately for them, the steals were allowing them to get baskets going to the rim, because they still couldn't make a shot.

Then, in the second half, suddenly the basket got big. They turned their percentage upside down and missed only one jumper in the third quarter. They weren't quite as hot in the fourth, but they continued to make enough jump shots to pass for an NBA team.

The Clippers aren't going to have many more quarters this season where they make 9 out of 10 jump shots like they did in the third. But if they play defense like they did (and indeed like they did down the stretch in the San Antonio game) then they won't have to. And that's what is most encouraging about this game - the Clippers appear at times to be a very good defensive team.

When they traded for Camby, I said that having him and Kaman as defensive backstops, the perimeter defenders could gamble for steals. Well, guess what? Cat Mobley had seven steals in this game and Baron Davis had four. (Although, to be fair, Cat was hardly gambling. He just picked Durant clean time after time.) 14 steals and 9 blocks is a LOT of shots you're taking away from the other team.

The bad news in the game (aside from the ice cold first half shooting) was the bench. The starting unit looked great. Even Baron Davis, although he remained ice cold (5 for 15), made major contributions passing (8 assists) and defending (the aforementioned 4 steals). But the second unit was abysmal. At one point, before Mike Taylor and Steve Novak hit some garbage time jumpers, they were 3 for 21. Tim Thomas and Ricky Davis, supposedly the instant offense off the bench veterans, combined to make 1 shot in 12 attempts. The Clippers fell behind with the reserves on the floor in the second quarter, and the scrubs even let OKC get a little momentum back in the fourth. MDsr, to his credit, came back with Camby and Kaman really quickly at the end, just to make sure the game didn't get close.

Kaman had an absolute monster game. Put it this way: his fantasy owners are very happy right about now. 25 points, 14 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks, 11 for 13 shooting, 3 for 3 form the line, and only 1 turnover. That's a game. He only took one shot that wasn't a layup or a dunk (he made it), and he actually finished his plays around the basket. He's made 54 of 81 shots in his last 8 games - that's 2 out of 3 folks. He's also been rebounding very well, with 13, 13 and 14 in his last three.

Marcus Camby also had a nice game, and the difference for the team was night and day when Camby and Kaman were on the floor. Kaman was plus 31 for the game and Camby was plus 30. Guess who wasn't on the floor when OKC went on their first half run? But they're not just doing the things you expect like rebounding and blocking shots. The Clippers just played better when they were on the floor. How about this stat - Kaman 6 assists, Camby 4. That's 10 assists from a couple of seven footers - many of them to each other. I've said it before, but the team could be very interesting if the two of them can develop some rapport. They're both highly skilled players for their size.

It's great news of course that Kaman and Camby are playing well - but the bad news is that the bigs off the bench were so ineffective tonight. Going into the season I surmised that one of them would have to be on the court at all times, staggering their rest. So far MDsr has not taken my advice, but many more games like tonight and he won't be able to ignore it much longer. Like I said, he did come back with his starting bigs pretty quick in the fourth.

So win number two is in the books, and although it's against the lowly Thunder, it was pretty emphatic, for what that's worth. A win in Philly Friday night will be more difficult (and much sweeter of course).

1 recs | Comment 44 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Backup Bigs

Are completely ineffective. This is why we should deactivate one and put DeAndre up for a test run. I know most don’t think he’s ready, but I think he could be more of an impact than those we have keeping the bench warm right now.

by Newtybar on Nov 19, 2008 10:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

hard to argue at this point

I think DeAndre is bound for the D-League, but as bad as every other player over 6’7" not named Kaman or Camby has been, why the hell not put DeAndre out there?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 19, 2008 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Skinner

I don’t think Skinner has been bad at all. When he went in vs. Duncan, he blocked his shot and took it from him. He made some nice blocks tonight as well. Not sure why he insists on shooting so much, but he’s been decent.

The other “big” is Thomas, who is horrible, but has the Veteran Cloak of Invincibility.

Ramona today said that we shouldn’t expect to see Jordan in the D-League much because they prefer that he practice against Kaman and Camby rather than some scrubs in Anaheim. Can’t say I argue with that.

by madglove on Nov 19, 2008 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Skinner is adequete for a big

Thomas is NOT a big, nor should he be considered one. His minutes should only be at SF, where he can play on the perimeter.

I don’t know what to do with Ricky Davis. He has to get hot at some point.

Skinner, Paul Davis and DeAndre should be the bigs off the pine.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 20, 2008 7:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yup

I agree. But does that mean Thomas would have to defend a SF?

by swamigusto on Nov 20, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He has to guard somebody. May as well be a 3.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 20, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

One Win Down...The Next One is The One That Matters

Sixers…let’s do it.

by Newtybar on Nov 19, 2008 10:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Confidence

What we saw in the first half today, particularly the poor shooting, is a result of one thing – confidence. They looked like a team that expected to get behind early and lose. Every single one of the players had the “great, here we go again” look on their faces. Shooting is directly related to confidence, and that’s why we’ve been shooting so poorly this season. Every game erodes any confidence that this team had. Particularly the poor starts.

In the 2nd half the team realized they weren’t playing the Lakers or the Jazz…they were playing the Thunder. The talent eventually allowed the Clips to pull away and regain some of that confidence that they had lost.

It’s going to be very important to START WELL in the next several games and build on some confidence. The poor starts are really killing us because the team starts to hang their heads and they can’t make it up.

I know Cat gave Durant fits and shot well tonight, but he’s killing me. Bad shot after bad shot and he’s a black hole. At one point in the first half, Baron started ignoring him and going the other way on every play. Dunleavy’s insistence on playing Cat and Ricky regardless of how poorly they play is really hurting this team.

Gordon couldn’t play more tonight? Really? Makes no sense.

What I REALLY liked seeing tonight was the rapidly developing chemistry between Kaman and Camby. Those two are passing to each other very well and getting easy looks as a result. The more comfortable those two get with one another, the better off we’ll be.

by madglove on Nov 19, 2008 10:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Confidence is real

I like to use Matt Barnes as an example. He was never a particularly good shooter. He went to the Warriors, Nellie said, “hey, shoot the ball.” He started shooting with confidence (because he knew his coach wasn’t going to yank him) and voila. Suddenly he’s a shooter.

MDsr harping on shot selection certainly does not help the confidence of the shooters. At the beginning of this one, Milph was talking about how Baron looked ‘under control’ as if it was a good think. I thought ‘Baron looks completely lifeless out there.’

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 19, 2008 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Baron is being marginalized

There’s no doubt he is constrained within this system. I’d say we are utilizing about 60% of his ability at this point. He’s not running on the open floor…he’s walking it up slowly into half court sets. I feel bad for him.

Cat played well tonight on both defense and offense, so we are going to have to disagree there.

TT & RD….I have no words.

by Newtybar on Nov 19, 2008 11:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Cat

I agree with Citizen Newtybar (what is that? some sort of fig based snack?) that it’s hard to criticize Cat after this game. He was terrific all game on defense, and just as terrific on offense in the second half. Having said that, he is being a ball stopper this season – seemingly more so than even in the past. There was a play in the fourth quarter (long after the game was decided) where he had it on the wing, and thru some switches Kaman had Jeff Green on him. Kaman flashed to the middle, and literally was standing under the basket, with Green completely sealed. All Cat has to do is throw the ball to him – it wasn’t even a tough pass. But he’d already started the final launch sequence to the fade away – no getting a pass out of him at that point.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 20, 2008 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You are right.

Cat’s fade is a long process with a lot of moving parts.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 20, 2008 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem

is not Cat’s fault. It’s that MDSr wants to have him out there at all times. Like you’ve said, he’s the blanket.

by Jax on Nov 20, 2008 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take 48 minutes of the blanket

if he plays like he did last night. Can’t ask for much more from your 2 guard.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 20, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Newtybar...

My name is Newton and Newtybar is a nickname that I’ve had for a long while.

by Newtybar on Nov 20, 2008 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Still

Sounds delicious and nutritious.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 20, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe we can give away Newtybars as part of the Clipper promotion

The healtier LA team . . .

by Jax on Nov 20, 2008 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I always thought

it was just a unique spelling of nuddie bar (aka strip club). I guess we all know where my mind is. :P

by Clip Show on Nov 20, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This & That

Kaman & Camby are proving they can both be effective at the same time, something we weren’t sure was going to happen. The problem they may still run into is defending a true PF.

I thought BD played with more life tonight, which might be the most encouraging thing.

Mobley has proved that he deserves to be the starter at the two guard, but it would be nice to see us win without him having a good night.

How long will Dunleavy insist on Ricky Davis?

by ghost_ride on Nov 20, 2008 12:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ricky Ok, Thomas, Not So Much

I thought R2D2 played really good defense on Durrant while Cuttino was out. His shooting is still less than par but he didn’t jack up a lot of shots so I’m getting to like his play a bit more. I appreciate good defense because it shows effort.

Thomas I think is just bupkis on defense. He shaded Durrant into an ESPN highlight dunk to top off a 15 point lead for OKC.

Thomas goes back to the bench and within 2 minutes the Clippers go from 15 down to down by 3. A 12 point swing. Coincidence?

I wonder if Dunleavy keeps track of the other team going on a run and who he has on the court at that time? Just from my watching games, it feels like it’s always Tim Thomas to me.

R2D2’s +/- tonight was -1 in 22 minutes, while TT was -10 in 17:30.

As for our bigs off the bench, what happened to Paul Davis???? He played great in the Dallas win and now he’s gone? Is he in Dunleavy’s doghouse? Anyone know what happened to him? Is he hurt?

by moKi on Nov 20, 2008 4:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thomas horrendous, Ricky just poor

Yes, Davis2 kept Gordon on the bench in the 2nd half by playing good defense against Durant. But this was an exceptional situation, going against a 6’10" SG. Bury him, but maybe not quite as deep underground as you bury Tim Thomas.

Camby is a really good chemistry player, makes a lot of good plays in traffic, and CS is right about the assists from the big guys. It’s great to see them both healthy and running. Smaller, energy rebounder Collison didn’t hurt the Clips as he has in the past. Should be interesting to see what happens now against EB and Dalembert, and let’s look out for Speights and TYoung. Speights is trying to be a Milsap or Landry, and he’ll get his chance if Dunleavy keeps playing Tim Thomas.

I liked the way that MD brought in Skinner for Kaman with some time left in the 1st. But then, as CS mentions, he brought Thomas in for Camby and the wheels fell off very quickly, and it took him a bit too long to bring Kaman back, and much too long to bring Camby back (all of those were TT quality minutes). Kaman had just sat the last 3 minutes of the 1st and through the quarter break—get him back out there! Kaman-Camby, Camby-Skinner, Kaman-Skinner, then Kaman-Camby. No TT.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I also liked the play of Jason Hart and bringing him in to guard Westbrook in the 2nd half when the Clips had the lead. Not sure why PJ waited so long to bring him back. But Hart is bigger and a steadier defender than Taylor—Taylor is quicker and puts great pressure on small PGs—, and he was just the right guy to put on Westbrook. It’s good to see guys down at the end of the bench put to specific use and be successful. Now if MD can just get Thomas and Davis2 down there, the Clips might be dangerous.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 20, 2008 7:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

No TT, unless it is at the 3. And rarely even then.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 20, 2008 7:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I liked the way Hart played as well

I felt Jason Hart was giving it his all out there….I think he’s realizing he needs to give it 100% all out, no chicken shit, leave you heart on the floor type play. I like his footwork and he seems like a solid defender as well.

I like our PG situation actually.

As for Davis3, I think it was a bad match up. He’s way too slow, I don’t know why you guys don’t see that. He’s a better matchup against bigger guys that don’t move well… i.e. Okur or Ilguaskas .

by Newtybar on Nov 20, 2008 7:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

As Long

as BD is healthy and trying our PG position is great….

by ghost_ride on Nov 20, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

I think Paul Davis could have guarded Collison or Swift, maybe even Petro. Maybe not for long stretches but he could have boxed them out, pushed them further away from the basket, etc…

It’s not like the Thunder had any bigs with Amare or Dwight Howard type overpowering athleticism. I think the closest would be Weezy so I wouldn’t want him out there then, but the other guys? I think he should have gotten a shot over Novak….

by moKi on Nov 20, 2008 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

PJ and Westbrook

It was indeed strange that PJ didn’t turn to Westbrook sooner in the second half. He was plus 4 in the game – and they lost by 20. Um, hello? PJ? Are you noticing this? I have to say, he looks like he’s going to be a very good pro, and I was not at all certain of that. He still has a long way to go on running the point in the NBA, but he’s so fast and active that he looks like a difference maker.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 20, 2008 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure he's a PG

He has a strong Rondo vibe, doesn’t he? His pull-up jump shot is pretty awesome too, especially inside 20 ft., and it’s only going to get better—then there’s that dunking thing he’s good at.

I wonder if he’s better at the 2. I don’t quite get why Durant is a 2, and what purpose that serves. Green may be better coming off the bench or as an undersized PF.

It seems like PJ was hesitating to bring Westbrook back because he feels he can’t play Durant, Westbrook, and Watson at the same time. Why not?

The Thunder are headed for a high lottery pick and I guess they have a bunch of other first rounders. They need big men badly, but I think that Westbrook and Rubio would be an interesting backcourt.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 20, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Durant

I’m pretty mystified by playing him at the 2. It seems willfully gimmicky. Truth is, a wing is a wing in the NBA, and on offense it doesn’t really matter a lot. It guess in theory it creates some matchup problems, but in reality, didn’t Cat do a much better job on him than Al or Tim Thomas would? Do don’t you create even more favorable matchups playing him at the three? (Obviously Cat is a pretty strong defender, especially giving away size, but until Durant gets stronger, I don’t see that being his best spot.) On defense, he’s kind of a disaster trying to guard talented wings. Durant on Kobe? Really?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 20, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's about Jeff Green

They used a very high pick on Green and he’s a solid player. But it seems like having him out there forces them to play Durant at the 2.

Since they have nothing to lose at this point, it seems like they should play small ball—oftentimes you just want to ask yourself, what would Nelly (or Dantoni) do? Play Collison at center, Green at PF, Durant at SF, Westbrook at SG, and Watson at PG. Or at least don’t be afraid to go to that lineup, and move Swift and Wilcox in and around.

It’s exactly the kind of trap that Dunleavy would fall for, and the Clips would have Thomas at center and they’d be horrible.

It’ll be fun to do the analysis going into the Philly game.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 20, 2008 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Great Defensive Effort

Grateful for the Thunder.

Each starter had a solid game. Good balance offensively. I love Kaman shooting the 15 footer. He looks really confident. His passing is much improved this year. He passed up a few easy shots that he should have taken last night, but the Clippers were able to convert a few of these.

I don’t remember the last time I saw a player strip another player of the ball so frequently as Mobley did to Durant. It looked like an adult playing against a kid out there (oh wait, it was an adult playing against a kid). Huge game by Cat. He can stay.

The bench was ridiculous, with the exceptions of Taylor, Hart and Skinner. Dunleavy really needs to rethink his subbing patterns. The bench has to be able to get stops. I regret that Q Ross is not on this team. I think he would be a nice fit.

I read that the Clippers may consider making moves in mid-December if things are not vastly improved. Not sure what they could really do without eroding some of the 2010 cap space.

AT needs to work on his passing. Once he does, I would like to see him become a focal point of the offense. Right now, his points are requiring a lot of work on his part.

I think Philly is totally beatable. Craig Smith outplayed EB last night.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 20, 2008 7:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Philly is the only game that matters to me at this point.

If we didn’t make the playoffs I can at least say…we beat Philly…suck it EB.

by Newtybar on Nov 20, 2008 7:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope Camby gives EB all he can handle

and I hope AT throws a viscious dunk on EB’s head, and, to quote another member of the Nation, “teabags” EB.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 20, 2008 8:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Camby + Kaman

Its a thing of beauty. The interior passing is a very nice surprise. I find the calls to bring one of them off the bench to start curious, especially in light of the arguments surrounding a certain SF and how he shouldn’t have to suffer coming off the bench. Kaman and Camby are the Clippers two best players right now. I do agree that I would like to see the rotations more like CZ lays out. I think I wrote something similar as soon as they aquired Skinner.

Its Cat’s starting job to lose again. He could lose it, as could anyone, but he is playing very well. I’m not so interested in what the scoring looks like as long as it is efficient. And its impossible to argue with the D.

The only bad news is the Q line. We’ll compare the individual game performances of everyone vs Q’s season to date.

Kaman
Thornton
Camby
Mobley
Q. Ross -———————————— .510 eFG%
Hart
Novak
Davis1
way way down.
REST OF CLIPPERS.

It can’t feel good to be the Thunder and essentially get beat 5v12.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 20, 2008 8:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Nice to see

a basketball team show up. I was lucky enough to get home to only see the good stuff as I missed the 1st half. Durant and Westbrook were unimpressive and it looks like Wilcox is still Wilcox. When the 2nd unit was stagnating in the 2nd half was Gordon playing. I wasn’t paying a lot of attention but it seemed all I saw was Ricky and TT missing shot after shot.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 20, 2008 9:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Didn't see the game....

…but apparently the team can only win with minimum minutes from TT. In the Clips only other win, against Dallas, he didn’t even play!

The perimeter shooting in general has looked atrocious. Has anyone compared the percentages of this season with the players past percentages? Guys like BD, RD, TT, Cat, even AT from last year.

It will be interesting to see what the front court does on Friday against a “real” power forward. I just hope it’s not painful to watch!

by saxmanager on Nov 20, 2008 9:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

FG Percentages

Last night helped a couple guys… but basically, the starting bigs are shooting well, and no one else is.

Cat has now raised his FG% to almost exactly equal his career number.

Kaman, Camby and Thornton are above their career numbers, Kaman by a lot. Thornton of course has a pretty short career, and he’s pretty close to his post January percentage from last season.

That right there tells you a lot about the Clippers bench. 4 starters are shooting OK or better than OK. Not a single bench player is above 40%. Eek. (DeAndre is 1 for 1 as a pro.)

Three guys in the main rotation are way off: Baron, Ricky and Thomas.

Skinner is also WAY off his career numbers – but he seems strangely compelled to shoot 18 footers, which is not something I remember him doing anywhere else in his career.

The rest of the team have no NBA career to speak of, so there’s no point comparing. But shooting below 40% is a good way never to get an NBA career.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 20, 2008 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kaman's FG%

is a huge headline. He was amazing last night.

I’m sure you remember when we were saying “if he can just hit one more shot per game…” all too well.

Even the little passes inside to Camby were working last night. And he was dunking the ball. And he hasn’t missed his little jump shot all week.

Kaman-Camby is looking pretty sweet right now.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 20, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

did anyone catch him talking to MikeSmith after the game?

the guy sounds alot more confident and commented on slowing himself down and not thinking too much about what to do with the ball…

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 20, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Um

" Has anyone compared the percentages of this season with the players past percentages? Guys like BD, RD, TT, Cat, even AT from last year."

Yeah, that happened.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 20, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't see the game either, but it appears

that Kaman and Camby are starting to get used to playing together and that BD (the team’s key and best player) is starting to get used to playing with them. At least this is true against weak teams.

IMO if we are going to compare player stats, we should compare overall PER.

Philly will be interesting on several levels.

by Jax on Nov 20, 2008 9:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Gordon needs to play more

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 20, 2008 11:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think he will

He was in the rotation early, but the SG matchup with Durant made it kind of impossible for him. And Ricky Davis did a pretty good job on defense, although he was as lame about everything else as he has been all season so far. Let’s see if EG gets more minutes against Philly.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 20, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Off Topic

any ideas if the team is planning any team parties for tomorrow’s game?
I know it’s an early game, but it’s FElton!
How about live blogging? I may still be at work, but I can listen online and sneak a post here and there (viva Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V!)

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 20, 2008 1:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs