Mobley and Thomas for Randolph

by Steve Perrin on Nov 21, 2008 1:55 PM PST in News Comment 105 comments

The details, according to Ramona Shelburne, are more or less as we suspected. Cuttino Mobley and Tim Thomas to the Knicks in exchange for Zach Randolph and Mardy Collins.

When you begin the season 1-9 and are scoring 90 points a game, it's not unusual to make a move. It's what most franchises would do, and frankly, there's a part of me that's very happy that the Clippers were unwilling to accept their slow start. You don't want to panic, but as a long time Citizen of Clips Nation, panic is preferable to their usual ineffectual complacency.

Having said that, I think that the trade value would only have increased for Mobley and Thomas as 2010 got closer. And I'm just not sold that the team got maximum value in this deal. I was pretty convinced that the Knicks were going to have to package the guy with a pick or an asset like David Lee to get rid of him. They said over the summer that they thought they could raise his value by showcasing him in D'Antoni's offense. If that was their plan, it worked perfectly, with the Clippers playing the part of 'yokel rube.'

Zach Randolph is a statistical monster. But he's never been a winner. Of course, Elton Brand's never been a winner either. EB managed to miss the playoffs every year but one, but he was a nice guy, volunteering in the community and making movies in the off season. Z-Bo spent most of his time volunteering in strip clubs.

Here's what's really interesting: the Clippers now have four players on their roster that have, at one point or another, put up all star worthy numbers. In addition to those four, they have second year player Al Thornton and rookie Eric Gordon who both appear to have star potential. There's no lack of talent on the roster.

Obviously we were concerned about chemistry before. There are two ways to look at this trade in that context. Maybe it makes the chemistry experiment all the more likely to blow up in the test tube. Or maybe the situation was already so volatile, that it doesn't much matter that were tossing in another radioactive element. Only time will tell on that one.

Mardy Collins? They guy who laid out JR Smith setting off the Knicks-Nuggets brawl? Really? Why is he in this deal?

Last thought: bearing in mind, as Citizen John R has always pointed out, that mega super stars (like LeBron James or Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudemire) are unlikely to sign with the Clippers - partly because of their reputation, deserved or not, partly because they are unlikely to look much like a title contender as soon as 2010 - maybe this isn't such a bad idea, even from a forward looking standpoint. Before, you had Thomas, Mobley, Camby, Ricky all expiring in 2010 - you get a ton of cap space, but can you use it? Now, you still have Camby and Ricky (combined $13M in salary) expiring in 2010, and Z-Bo ($17M... ouch, that hurt just typing it) expiring the next year. Basically, you've got major trade chips for a year longer.

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Great there goes our chance of winning tonight

What is going to be our starting lineup going to be. Are we going to have a supersized lineup or is Zbo coming off the bench. Or I guess we could move Al to the 2 and Have Zbo play the 3. Did MD even think about this before pulling the trigger.

by bestclipfan on Nov 21, 2008 2:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Of all the things you can accuse MDSr of

UNDERTHINKING just doesn’t fit his MO.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

but really what is our starting lineup going to be

by bestclipfan on Nov 21, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps your best post this year

Yokel rube and volunteering at strip clubs are classics.

2011 Free Agents:
Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobili
Marcus Camby
Tracey McGrady
Shaquille O’Neal
Brad Miller
Stephen Jackson
Jermaine O’Neal
Mike Miller
Rip Hamilton

Shaq anyone?

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 21, 2008 2:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

There's always the draft

With the way the Clippers have been drafting lately, maybe we wont need free agency..

by ghost_ride on Nov 21, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Who?

Who have the Clippers drafted that makes a difference this year? Al is ok so far, time will tell how good he is. Korolev? Livingston?

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 21, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh please

Al has been better than “ok.” Don’t give us that junk. When the 12th pick is all rookie first team and is a legit starter in his second year, he’s better than “ok.”

by madglove on Nov 21, 2008 6:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

By

2011 Shaq will be lucky if he can still stand. Add three years to these guys and only Joe Johnson or Ginobili might be interesting.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 21, 2008 2:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I guess we will know this is official

if Cat and TT aren’t at the game tonight.

by bestclipfan on Nov 21, 2008 2:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

SI is on it

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 21, 2008 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Z-Bo

The more I think about it, the less I think there will be a follow-up deal. I think they got Z-Bo to come off the bench and provide an actual scoring option for the 2nd unit. Our bench players have been pretty bad and there’s nobody to go to for scoring. Z-Bo can play like 15 minutes with the bench players and take every shot he wants. Of course he’ll play with the starters too.

Also, if you trade Camby for a guy like JRich or Crash, you’ve just lost a LOT of defense…something MDsr relies on. Plus, those guys have long term contracts, what is the point of having our prized lottery pick on the bench like that? They HAVE to see whether Gordon is the real deal or not.

I think for better or worse, this is our team for the rest of the year.

by madglove on Nov 21, 2008 2:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I find Randolph as depth...accceptable

But EJ will have to produce. And not produce for a rookie. Really actually efficiently score. And that’s a lot to ask.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Unacceptable

In what universe do you pay a guy 17 million to come off the bench?

Ricky Davis will be the starter now too—that should be fun to watch. Yes, Gordon will play more.

But Camby will play less. And/or Kaman.

I’ll try to see this from the MD/positive side in a minute, but right now I’m in the dark place.

Tim Thomas gone Tim Thomas gone Tim Thomas gone Tim Thomas gone

maybe if I keep saying that it will get better.
But I don’t like this guy, or his game, or doing a deal that benefits the Knicks where we take a horrible contract off their hands. It even smells like a Memphis deal—I don’t get it.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 21, 2008 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

See below for my reply

I was writing that and finished before I saw your comment, but it elaborates on my thoughts.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Starter/Bench

It doesn’t matter who’s starting, it matters how much these guys play. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out all three of our top bigs can play 32 minutes a game each. So if Randoph comes off the bench and plays starters minutes, what does it matter? I happen to think Camby should be first off the bench due to his age and persistent inuries.

What’s great is that we wont have to see much of Skinner or Davis(3) if they’re all healthy.

*Dunleavy also claims Kaman, Camby, & Randolph could all see action at the same time. Now, that’s going big.

by ghost_ride on Nov 21, 2008 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, I dont like it but I dont think theres a master plan to get us lebron james.

by andrewexd on Nov 21, 2008 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

14th pick but same idea

and Gordon doesn’t seem to be a slouch either. So it seems our drafting has gotten much better these past two years.

by bestclipfan on Nov 23, 2008 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Z-Bo = Clipper's L.O.

Lamar didn’t want to go to the bench but I think he’s OK with it. Of course the Lakers are winning.
If the Clippers can win and Z-Bo can get starter minutes coming off the bench maybe all will be happy in Clipperland…

by moKi on Nov 21, 2008 2:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

ZBo's not coming off the bench

We ain’t the Lakers

by Jax on Nov 21, 2008 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Disaster

I hate this stupid deal.

But at least the Tim Thomas oil fire is finally out—desperate measures indeed.

Whatever happened to no bad contracts? Has anybody mentioned microsurgery? Mobley was productive and the Clips best perimeter defender.

And I don’t buy the very fragile “what if no major free agents are interested in signing with the Clips” argument. Cap space is cap space, and there are different ways to break it down if you can’t get a top guy—you have extra mid-level money to spend on solid, hard-working non-stars, and you can upgrade from players like Ricky Davis, Brian Skinner, and Steve Novak.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 21, 2008 2:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Z-Bo is just a bigger version of TT

But for an extra year.

And you are right on the cap space. LA + $$ would net a good FA, especially with a PG.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 21, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We traded one two black holes for 1 big one

we always complained about TT and Mobley being black holes on offense well now we got another one. Although I am just going off what people are saying as I have not really watched him much. I have low expectations for him so maybe he can pass them.

by bestclipfan on Nov 21, 2008 2:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Blazer Fan here

Yes, you got a black hole on offense. But, while he hasn’t won at the NBA level, I wouldn’t say he isn’t a winner. He won state championships in high school and a national championship at Michigan State. I don’t know if the Clippers are the right place but I have always felt in the right situation, with all-stars that can keep him on task, he could contribute to a winning team.

He was best for the Blazers when they didn’t run any plays for him because it forced him to go after boards and put backs to get his points. Once he became the focal point, no one else was really able to get any good shots because he loves to stand and jab step until he decides to shoot.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Nov 22, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the insight

More jab steps. Just what we need down here.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 24, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Collins is in the deal because the Knicks didn't have a roster spot for him

They were at 15 players, traded Randolph and Crawford, and received Harrington, Thomas, and Mobley in return. So Collins is in the Randolph trade just to balance the Knicks’ roster.

There has to be another deal in the works for the Clippers. They can’t afford to hang on to three well-above-average big-men when their only shooting guard is Eric Gordon.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation

by Ben Q Rock on Nov 21, 2008 2:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I know nothing about Hardy

but here was a little something I found wikipedia which already has him listed as a Clipper.
"In 52 games played during the 2006-2007 season, Collins averaged 4.5 points per game, 2.0 rebounds per game, and 1.6 assists per game. However, in the final ten games of the season, when he played a substantially higher number of minutes than previously in the season, he averaged 14.7 points, 6.3 rebounds, 5.8 assists and 1.9 steals.1

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 21, 2008 3:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Evidently

he also has a defensive reputation. The next Q? He is 6’6.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 21, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe we could trick someone

into taking Davis 2 and 3 and Novak for a good SG

by bestclipfan on Nov 21, 2008 3:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Collins is probably getting cut

but I am still hoping inside that this deal isn’t going to happen. Clippers.com still has not reported it.

by bestclipfan on Nov 21, 2008 3:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, Im worried about that

The worst case is that Clippers.com isn’t reporting it because its not done yet, and that its not done yet because it is conditional on a second deal also happening…

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well it is official

clippers.com finally reporting it. here is the link
http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/zrandolph_collins_081121.html

by bestclipfan on Nov 21, 2008 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Just got

a text from the Clippers too…so it is official

by Clip Show on Nov 21, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is he still a self professed gangsta?

I hate to mix morality with hoops.

This is troubling……

http://wweek.com/wwire/?p=6318

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=116372716550745100

Has he shown any remorse, repentance maturity off the court?

Or is he just a bad guy that puts up good numbers?

by 69knicks on Nov 21, 2008 3:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

07-08 WP48 of inbound and outbound players

From the Wages of Wins blog’s team reviews:

Cat Mobley 0.029
Tim Thomas -0.053

Randolph 0.143

So this is why I like it as depth. If ZBo is taking the bulk of Thomas’ negative production minutes, that’s a HUGE win.

But Kaman and Camby both produce better. So if the rotation is Kaman/Camby/Randolph with Skinner as the soaker, its a win.

Making Davis2 the starter is a wash with Mobley, assuming he can return to form. If EJ gets the start, its mad volatility and anything could happen, but its probably not good. On balance, the improvement from Thomas to Randolph should wipe out any damage EJ can inflict.

I think if your front line is Kaman/Camby/Randolph then Davis3 or DeAndre has to go?

If you send off Camby for JRich, thats a drop off of over 0.200wp48 and JRich is only going to be like 0.075 over Davis2, so you don’t get it all back with another trade. Vince Carter gets you closer and gets it all back assuming Davis2 and EJ are unproductive.

HOLD FAST MDSr.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 3:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

To put a fine point on it

To go from Thomas as your back up 4 to Randolph is the equivalent to adding an all-star to your team.

The trade is especially useful since, as constituted, the newest Clipper will be taking TT’s minutes.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Out of Whack

The probelm is that for wins to be produced you need five reasonably capable players. We can’t afford to have a Z-Bo as a backup 4 on a team that has no legit starting SG.

Even though JRich has less wins produced or whatever that stat is, he will help the team win more games than having Z-Bo as backup. Said another way, stuffing a team full of high WOW score PFs doesn’t mean that the team will get the total of their wins added up.

Addition by subtraction.

by Jax on Nov 21, 2008 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That is a common argument people try to make about Wins Produced

But it is a red herring. Noone is suggesting the Clippers, or anyone else, play 4 PF’s.

Randolph is taking Thomas’ minutes, it would appear, so it works well. Replacing one PF with another. The bench got better, and Mobley being replaced by Davis2 is a wash, assuming he can return to form.

That’s all talking strictly from a winsproduced standpoint and only for 08-09. The Clippers improved one spot in their rotation greatly and didn’t hurt themselves anywhere else significantly.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see it

First, the Clippers now have no starting SG. One of the problems with WOW is that Ricky Davis produced those stats playing for a team that had little else. He’s not going to have those kinds of stats on this team, in part because he’s never had good stats playing on a good team. So your position that RD and Cat are essentially the same assuming RD returns to form is likely invalid because he’s not going to return to form.

Second, ZBo dominates the ball and does not stretch the defense. TT played some SF and did stretch the defense. Yes ZBo’s better but there are some costs there.

In my view they have to make anohter move and JRich net effect would be better than Camby / Kaman. Not sure if we could really do better than that.

, which is going to hurt them IMO more than any advantage ZBo may have over TT. And TT played SF some and stretched the defense. Who is going to stretch the defense now? Paul Davis?

by Jax on Nov 21, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry inadvertent sentence fragment left in at the end there.

by Jax on Nov 21, 2008 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ramoma's answer about SG is more EG

“This creates quite a bit more playing time for rookie Eric Gordon. Expect his minutes to increase soon, as the club believes he could eventually be the team’s top perimeter defender.”

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on Nov 21, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This goes back to the original thing you wont accept

So I guess there is no point in saying it again. But I will put it out there for everyone else since it is an excellent case study.

A career of Buckets.

Everywhere Ricky Davis has went, and there have been many stops, he has produced just about exactly the same. Go ahead and scour that Per 36 minutes box. He scores the same, rebounds the same, assists the same, turnovers the same, etc, etc, etc. The box doesn’t know (and doesn’t care) who his teammates were, who his coach was, if he started or came off the bench, if his girlfriend dumped him, or anything else. And you know all those things changed because he changed teams seven times.

Assuming he can return to form is the logical conclusion.

Unless you want to argue that he is too old and his career is over, which is a plausible position to take, but he is only 29 so I would again respectfully disagree.

Even this year the only thing down is his scoring, and thats down because his FG% is down. When his FG% comes back, and it is reasonable to assume it will, his scoring will be right back where it was.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's see what happens. Hopefully you're right.

As I recall he’s only been on woefully bad teams without alot of other players putting up substantial stats. But I have not studied this in detail.

by Jax on Nov 21, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

According to the world...

We ARE a woefully bad team…

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL - ok so he'll return to form immediately

by Jax on Nov 21, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

I don’t believe it and don’t want to base expectations on it. I understand that that’s who he has been, but he looks like a player who is dropping off and on his way out of the league. If he’s actually consistent and the same guy, great.

Again, Gordon is the newbie and the wildcard, who has played 125 minutes in 11 games in his career. Let’s see where that goes.

And according to my motivational theories, if Gordon is the starter and Davis2 comes off the bench, Davis2 will play a lot better and return to form. If he’s the starter and plays big minutes, he’ll continue to struggle and it’ll be a problem.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 21, 2008 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Give Gordon the opportunity

Forget Ricky Davis. I disagree with John R—there’s no “assuming that Davis2 will return to form.” Although playing backup to Eric Gordon might give him the kick in the pants that he needs.

I’m happy with Eric Gordon and like everything about him. He’s not really ready to start on a competitive team, but he’s definitely ready to start on a 2-9 team. And I like the suggestion that we see some Taylor-BDavis backcourt too. And who knows about Mardy Collins.

But in JohnR’s formula, go with the current Ricky Davis number, maybe it will be a little better, but expect the Eric Gordon number to become pretty good pretty soon—he’s only played about 125 minutes so far this year, compared to 230 for Davis 2 and 365 for Cat.

Tim Thomas stretching the defense never really worked out, did it? Gordon is the best shooter on the team, so more minutes for him will mean more 3 pt makes. Best shooter, that is, except for Novak, who could also get some more minutes now and stretch the defense in a real way. While TT was “stretching the defense” he was also getting an incredibly low number of offensive rebounds (and not a whole lot of defensive rebounds either). Randolph will be a big upgrade there.

Responding to Jax: I like JRich a lot, and he plays well with BD obviously. That would be a competitive squad. But I’d kind of like to see how this works with Gordon—I don’t think the Clips would do that to Gordon, make him a backup for a couple of years or more. I think with the horrendous start they must be ready to put him out there. I just don’t want to see Ricky Davis starting and getting the bulk of the Cat’s minutes, although that would hardly be possible. Gordon is going to start playing a lot.

FYI: You can see in real time in these posts how it works at Club Optimism. I’m actually getting used to this idea and starting to buy into it, and half an hour ago I was shocked and devastated.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 21, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We're spending an awful lot of money and talent on Z-Bo, BD, Kaman and Camby to mail it in by starting a Rook at the 3

No?

by Jax on Nov 21, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

EJ might be the answer

Its true. He might far exceed any output we have seen from the Clipper 2 in some time.

And he might do far worse than the known quantity that is Buckets. This is the fun of rookies I suppose. Very few rookies are actually productive though, so he would be the exception.

Ill go down on record as hoping you are right, but skeptical, as is probably a severe character flaw.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I know a productive rookie...

MOOORRROWWWW

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I see no reason why Ricky Davis won't begin producing as he normally does

His career is remarkably consistent. We have only seen 11 games as a Clipper.

He and EG should be adequate for now.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 21, 2008 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ricky Davis

Is clearly a huge downgrade from Cat. The question so far is not how much he’s helped, if any, but how much has he hurt us?

The hope, at least for me is that EJ can come alive, and that Mike Taylor can get on the floor a little bit more.

by ghost_ride on Nov 21, 2008 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Panic move

I gotta like that it takes TT off the floor, but I gotta wonder how Randolf will do with the Clippers. That’s a really big contract. I can’t get that you tube clip of him air-balling a 3 and the look on Isiah’s face out of my mind.

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 21, 2008 3:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I forgot that he shoots 3s.

Gotta look at his %. Also a pure lefty, replacing Cat. Out there with Kaman, that’s a pretty sinister pair of bigs.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 21, 2008 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sinister

I get it. Well played. Though Kaman is of course naturally adroit, not sinister.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 22, 2008 1:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He'd Probably Shoot around 50%

If he didn’t jack up 1 or 2 three’s per game.

The kicker no one mention’s is that he’s our only 80% FT shooter now, and gets to the line more than anyone else.

by ghost_ride on Nov 21, 2008 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Classic Clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lvYf08X6tc

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 21, 2008 3:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Okay, let's flip this around

I’m counting, I guess, on the idea that if I think this is a disaster, shameful and ridiculous, it could very well be great: going with the CS/CZ reverse mojo thing. So there’s that.

Add sending Tim Thomas out of town. The thing with that is that I didn’t really want to get rid of Tim Thomas, I just wanted him to stop playing, to put him on ice and bring him out for cameo appearances. There are a lot of guys who aren’t playing—Davis3, Novak, DJordan, Hart—and I would have been happy to see Thomas join that group, give his minutes to Skinner, Davis3, and Novak, with the option to bring him back in limited doses at any time.

But he’s gone. And a productive player is replacing him. Can’t really fault that part of the logic.

I very much believe in Eric Gordon, and I’m happy to see him thrown out there to start getting big minutes, let him make his mistakes. I don’t know anything about Mardy Collins but I’m guess that he’s a better defender than Ricky Davis, and perhaps he’s better than Ricky can’t-hit-a-shot-or-make-a-play Davis in general. But I’m guessing he’s a scrub, or I would know a little bit more about him. And I won’t be surprised if we don’t hear about his hidden talents and potential and defensive skills, in the QRoss mode. Not sure why they couldn’t have made the Knicks give up something, and have gotten a real defender/hustle player like Balkman—but I don’t even know what he’s doing. I don’t know much about the Knicks in general.

I don’t mind losing Cat Mobley. He was like Cassell in the Cassell-Livingston equation, or Maggette in the Maggette-Thornton equation. At a certain point (2-9) it’s time to make the move. And maybe Randolph will be productive enough and fit into Dunleavy’s system, that it’s a solid upgrade. If the Clips had been healthy in camp/preseason and had a chance to play together, things could be different and they could be competing now and need Mobley, but that’s behind us.

So I’m all in favor of big minutes for Gordon, and replacing all of the Tim Thomas minutes with Randolph is a huge upgrade, right? And even though Randolph’s defense is as bad as Tim Thomas’—and he’s not going to do any better against the hustle 2nd team rebounders like Millsap and Landry, but he’s a big handful on offense for those guys—Camby is still around (for now) and the Clips can still go with the Kaman-Camby lineup to defend and rebound. I don’t like the way Camby was just getting the chance to start meshing with Kaman, but one hopes that can continue as Randolph is settling in.

I don’t like Randolph’s contract, especially relative to what he brings to the team. Don’t like his rep and his style, don’t like his injury history. Not ready to defer to MD’s basketball expertise on this one yet either.

But what do I know. He puts up EB-like numbers. Losing Thomas is good, and playing Gordon more and getting rid of the blanket is progress.

So crazy it just might work.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 21, 2008 3:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Randolph's D > Tim Thomas

Defensive Rebounding.

Randolph averages almost double the Defensive Boards/ Per minute than does Tim Thomas. Not to mention, almost triple the Offensive Rebounds.

by ghost_ride on Nov 21, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Balkman is no longer on the Knicks

He was traded in the offseason to Denver

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on Nov 21, 2008 3:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I thought there was something like that. My bad—thanks.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 21, 2008 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ramona's answer on ZR's rep

"Just got off the phone with Zach Randolph’s agent Raymond Brothers.

Brothers said he hadn’t spoken with Randolph about his trade to the Clippers yet, but anticipated that Randolph would be ``fine with it’’ and excited to come to Los Angeles.

As for some of the character issues that have followed Randolph from earlier in his career, Brothers said, ``I’ve always told people that Zach came out of Michigan State when he was 18 years old. But now he’s grown up and he’s fine.

‘Zach is a competitor, he’s already proven himself as a basketball player. I think now his main focus is to win. I think he’s definitely going to help the Clippers.’ "

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on Nov 21, 2008 3:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I sure hope so....

I sure hope so….

..sigh.

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah i think the “character” issues are overrated. Hes been fine in NY. on the subject, imo going to miss cat.

by andrewexd on Nov 21, 2008 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When the knicks got Z-bo, what happened to curry?

and should we expect a parallel to Kaman?

by cantthinkofagoodname on Nov 21, 2008 3:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Fun note

I’m actually going to MSG for a non-clippers knicks game this year. I don’t know what that means.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 21, 2008 4:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It means that you have to watch Cat Mobley and Tim Thomas play no matter where you go

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 21, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I find it interesting that...

Anyone realize that TT and Mobley were the first players we’ve signed to fairly big deals (huge deals for Clippers). We resigned Mobley to a fair contract and actually signed TT away after a huge playoff series against the Lakers.

I’m hoping for a VC trade now. Would the Nets take Camby, Jason Hart and Ricky Davis? We won’t have cap room until 2011 anyways.

Baron Davis
Vince Carter
Chris Kaman
Zach Randolph
Al Thornton

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities. -Christian Nestell Bovee

by ClipperChuck on Nov 21, 2008 4:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Clippers, the New Knicks...All the names, None of the Production.

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 4:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i would love for VC to come to the clippers. he’s my favorite player!

Dodgers - 2008 NL West Champions

Tim Hightower for ROY.

by wongy on Nov 21, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think MDsr asked BD about this prior to the green light....

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 4:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

just heard on sixers radio broadcast that BD refused to comments before the game

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

not sure if no comment regarding FElton or the trade...

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Dunleay's ego

Dunleay thinks he can make a great player out of players people have given up on. He thinks he has some special coaching ability. Anyone who can put up great individual numbers can be molded to work in his system.
Patterson, Ricky Davis, Christie, J Will …

No way he’ll be able to understand Dunleavy’s playbook.

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 21, 2008 4:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think BD is just playing up the drama

Both friends probably are and laughing their asses off via text message to eachother.

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 4:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

i am

sure Baron thinks its hilarious that Elton left him in LA

by saintdee on Nov 21, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah right. shooting 36% on a 2-9 team. hilarious.

by andrewexd on Nov 21, 2008 4:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

got it up to 45% right now vs 40v% for the sixers

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

AT,BD,PD,EJ and skinner got them back in the game

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

two blocks in a row by sixers...

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

looks like nobody wants to win this game...8TOs for the sixers and 6 by the clips

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

only 2nd qtr

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

AT blocked by EB

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

fast break leads to a and-1 by young...EJ foul

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

PD 1 for 6

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 4:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

EJ...bingooooo!

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 5:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

39-37

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 21, 2008 5:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

niiice

glad someone is in here recapping while im at work

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 5:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

so who starts at PF now? will camby or kaman get the boot next?

Dodgers - 2008 NL West Champions

Tim Hightower for ROY.

by wongy on Nov 21, 2008 5:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Is there anywhere I can watch this game online?

by madglove on Nov 21, 2008 5:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Mid Game Observations

Kaman and Camby are sharing the ball well passing to each other in the paint. Awesome.

Cuttino who? Gordon has been playing awesome. AT is actually scoring AND rebounding. I love the rebounding part.

Third quarter Clips are up 72 – 68.

They are playing great without TT and CM. They look just fine without them. Maybe they can even start to look GOOD with Z-Bo…

by moKi on Nov 21, 2008 6:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Well that sucked...

by madglove on Nov 21, 2008 6:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a ref complianer

but the Clippers couldn’t get a call tonight

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 21, 2008 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What else is new?

They never get calls. At least this one was on the road so it makes sense. At Staples it’s like they’re freaking strangers.

by madglove on Nov 21, 2008 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunce is at his best in the 4th

I’m still at work, but I see another 4th quarter loss. I bet the last few play calls were brilliant. Mobley and TT contracts have a lot of value end of this year/next.

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 21, 2008 6:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

FD ....

….you didn’t watch the game yet you still manage to blame Dunleavy. Have you said a single positive thing about the Clippers ever?

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

FD may not have watched the game

but unfortunately, he’s right. last few plays were incoherent and painful to watch and the last “play”.. BD dribbling for 10 seconds then driving wildly into the lane, horrible. MDSR can’t call an offense so he needs someone like Z-Bo, a blackhole you can just thrown the ball into while everyone else watches.

by blowbyability on Nov 21, 2008 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, haven't watched the game

It’s just a pattern. Dunleavy usually gets out coached with less than 2 min to play.

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 21, 2008 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There's this thing called momentum

That usually plays a part at the end of games. We had the momentum against the Spurs, they had it against us this time. Randolph would’ve helped tonight.

by ghost_ride on Nov 21, 2008 10:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunleavy called for the last three Baron's forced shots?

Terrible last three shots by Baron…even the tough fade away 18 footer along the baseline that he made. What plays were we running, if any? Was our last offensive play to let Baron dribble out the clock and force a tough hook in a lane over three defenders? I’m astounded at our ineptitude. This was a game that we should have won because the 76ers and Mo Cheeks were terrible at the half court set. We lost because we’re worse than they are. It’s sad. And I can’t give props to Dunleavy for this.

by MichaelCage on Nov 21, 2008 6:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Another write up

Looks like a youth movement of sorts.

by ziffle on Nov 21, 2008 7:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Baron and Mobley

MD sure didn’t take advantage of two critical remaining possessions. That was really bad coaching. On the other hand, MD turned the ball over to Baron and it was up to Baron to create. I don’t think MD ordered him to shoot, but to shoot or create. Baron didn’t create much and shot poorly. He’s got amazing athleticism for a point guard with below average PG brains.

Sorry and sad to see Mobley go. He helped recruit Sam and get us to the Conference Finals (barring the 3.6 second defensive coaching lapse from MD). Mobley turned in some great games again this season and showed what he could do on both sides of the ball at 33 years old without pouting or getting hurt during his years as a Clipper. What a true pro……. Way too much Mobley bashing around here. Plenty of other Clippers to rag on.

by Jerdog on Nov 21, 2008 7:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Mobley was a great Clipper.

by Newtybar on Nov 21, 2008 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mobley is a pro's pro

Mobley was a soldier…he was willing to run Dunleavy’s plays come hell or high water…that’s why he became a ball stopper…he’s holding on to the damn thing until the play develops and he has the passing lane. Age was catching up to the old soldier, and one of these days, he will retire without much fanfare from the league, but he will be missed at every town he ever played. You know, he will never be a Hall of Fame player, but if anybody ever typified a Clippers player doggedness and tenacity, it was Mobley. He exemplifies the professionalism that the Clippers franchise have lacked all these years. Just for that alone, he deserves to be the first Clipper jersey we retire.

by MichaelCage on Nov 21, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I am as big a Mobley fan and appreciater as there has been on this site

I just don’t think he was a good fit this year.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 21, 2008 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So are Clippers in Preseason mode again?

Dunleavy blamed the losses before because the players didn’t have time to play together. Now with 2 big pieces gone and Randolph in, are they in pre-season mode again?

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 21, 2008 9:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs