New Jersey 112 - Clippers 95

by Steve Perrin on Nov 23, 2008 12:10 AM PST in Game Recaps Comment 19 comments

In case anyone was out there asking the question, "Is there any downside to trading away your most reliable shooting guard without getting one in return?" this game is exhibit A.

When Cat Mobley was traded, Ricky Davis was shooting 29.9% on the year coming off the bench for the Clippers. Since the trade as a starter, he's 2 for 14. In the course of those two games, he's lowered his shooting percentage to 27.2%. And mathematically speaking, it's not really easy to lower your percentage when you're already under 30%. It's obviously in Ricky's head now; early in the third quarter he missed a wide open three by about 2 feet to the right of the rim. It seems hard to believe that he won't bust out at some point, but how can you continue giving all these minutes to a guy making about 1 in 4 shots on the season, and much much worse lately?

Eric Gordon is a major talent, but also a rookie, and a 19 year old in the deal. In the first half of this game he threw not one but two passes to people wearing blue shirts in the crowd. He played a better second half; I love the way he takes the ball to the rim, even if he did run over Devin Harris on the way once. But he's just not going to be a productive and effective NBA shooting guard on a consistent basis any time soon.

With Zach Randolph and Mardy Collins still in street clothes pending the standard post-trade physical, it stands to reason the Clippers bench is going to struggle in this game. But it's as if the bench extends to the starter at shooting guard, and the Clippers are playing 4 on 5 when the other team has their starters out there. In this game, Baron Davis, Al Thornton, Marcus Camby and Chris Kaman combined to shoot 32 for 54 and score 82 points. The rest of the team shot 4 for 23, 17.4%.

It would have been difficult to win this game regardless. The Nets made 9 of their first 11 three point baskets. For the game, the Clippers were outscored by 18 from the three point line and 7 from the free throw line (this despite the Nets shooting very poorly from the line - the actually took 17 more free throws. You have to make an awful lot of two pointers to make up that deficit. And the Clippers didn't make nearly enough.

So it's back to LA to start the Zach Randolph era - Zach to the Future. Of course, there's still no one to play shooting guard. Does anybody see a problem with that?

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There’s a HUGE problem there.
The ultimate starting lineup in my opinion at this point would be
F-Camby
F- Randolph
C- Kaman
PG- Baron
SG- AL Thornton.

I would like to see how Thornton performs as SG; but that would leave NO depth for the remainder of the game. Our second unit would simply collpase.

Sorry, we are the BEST team in LA!

by LAC on Nov 23, 2008 12:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think we may see that some

It may be the only option at this point. Ideally, you want at least 3 in your lineup to be able to hit from the perimeter. I can kind of see that with this lineup. Zach, BD and AT can hit some threes, and Camby can pop that 17 footer.

Is AT ready to defend 2 guards? Not really. But who else is there. Camby can play some 3 and defend those guys. But I think they will probably begin with Marcus off the bench. That does leave a huge hole at the 2. Ricky has been horrendous. I love Gordon. I would be ok with him starting at the 2.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 23, 2008 8:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Another loss

Gordon isn’t Rose or Morrow. Season’s over, Dunleavy is just trying to get a few more wins to save his job this year, while sacrificing the next 2 years.

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 23, 2008 12:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

2-13 before Thanksgiving?

Considering that our next game will be against New Orleans, then an improved Denver team with Billups, I think it would be an upset of stupendous proportions if we were to win either of the next two games. With our start, we will have to go 39-28 to even finish .500. It would be like Miracle on Ice, Douglas-Tyson, or the Lions winning a game this year.

The way we’re playing right now, without any noticable improvement in offensive flow or defensive intensity after these first 13 games suggest that it’s a near impossibility. If this team can play .300 basketball after this start, it would be a moral victory of sorts.

So the question is, if Dunleavy can finish the season with a .300 record, should he be retained? He might need another preseason to get the most out of a Zach Randolph-Kaman-Camby lineup. I think we need to show patience with Dunleavy here. Unlike most coaches, he will need at least 164 games without injuries to get the most out of his lineup and for team chemistry to jell. I say we have to think hard about letting Dunleavy go if we finish the next two seasons 2-162.

by MichaelCage on Nov 23, 2008 12:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

more importantly

than all this trade talk and crumbling season…how did your youth soccer team do?

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Nov 23, 2008 10:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

AYSO update

ClipperZoe and the Grape Crush won their game Saturday in exhilarating fashion. 0-0 with about 5 minutes to play, the opposition’s best player broke free against our keeper, who charged her, but the striker neatly sidestepped her and literally had an open goal in front of her. But ClipperZoe swept in out of nowhere and cleared the ball off the line. A couple minutes later we got the game winner on a beautiful through ball and a one time finish. We were the underdogs in the game, and needless to say the parents were going nuts.

The Grape Crush lost 2-0 Sunday morning in a hard fought contest.

ClipperMax and the Raiders won twice on Saturday, and then won in extra time in the semi-finals. Unfortunately, in his division there’s been a dominant team all season, and the final was no exception. Although the Raiders are undefeated against the rest of the division, we lost for the 4th time this season to this same team in the Finals. I won’t tell you the score – it was not close.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 24, 2008 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Zach to the Future + Mardy McFly

After watching the Nets, I couldn’t help but wonder if Collins could turn out to be another Bobby Simmons for the team. I mean, SImmons couldn’t crack the Wizards rotation and was cut outright from the Pistons at one point. But he got minutes with the Clippers and sure enough, he turned out to be a solid player.

On the other hand, Collins has played twice as many minutes as Simmons did in his first two NBA seasons, and apparently he offers no offense, not even a decent free throw. But if he can be at all productive at the defensive end, he’s got Davis II beat at this point.

by OhMeOhMy on Nov 23, 2008 10:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

If he can play defense

we will be seeing more of him than we want to. It will drive us nuts.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 23, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If it's in place of Davis(2)

And if he doesn’t take away minutes from EJ, then it’s hard to argue. The only other scenario I’d like to see is more Mike Taylor.

by ghost_ride on Nov 23, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Were we really that much better w/ Mobley?

I think our record was 2-9 w/ Mobley, so I’m not sure we were that good with him. We also arguably played our best game of the year without him on Friday, even in a loss.

Obviously, the downside of the trade was that it thinned us out at the 2 guard, but now we speed EJ’s development in the process so we have to live with his ups and downs. What Dunleavy can’t wrap his head around is that Ricky Davis doesn’t deserve to be playing right now. Put him in in garbage time, and let him work it out in practice, if at all. In Davis(2’s) absence, there’s Mardy Collins & Mike Taylor.

by ghost_ride on Nov 23, 2008 2:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's not just the players

They need plays that will utilize their best attributes. I can’t see how the team would be successful starting three bigs. Realistically, they have to trade one of the three bigs.

Good post CS.

by Jax on Nov 23, 2008 6:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It will be interesting...

Basically, it comes down to Eric Gordon handling his new gig. Mixed results so far, but he’ll only get better. There’s enough minutes for the 3 bigs, assuming they all stay healthy.

by ghost_ride on Nov 23, 2008 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Ricky Davis

our Andruw Jones? They both were premier players, they both struggled in the year before they signed two year deals, and they are both sucking badly in their first year of the two year deal. I kept expecting A Jones to get it going but he never did. I hope Dunleavy does not stay with Ricky as long as Torre stayed with A Jones. Hopefully Ricky will break loose, I think you have to give him 20 minutes a game but for how long is the question if he does not show signs of recovery.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 23, 2008 6:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Well...

The Clips got Buckets on the cheap. The Dodgers grossly overpaid for Andruw. So there’s that…but the performance parallels are eerie.

Personally I want MDSr to stick it out with Ricky for a while longer. I don’t quite understand what everyone has seen in EJ so far to warrant all the hype. He’s underwhelmed so far, and his defensive mistakes are far more blatant than Ricky’s. Either way, both these two need to step it up since they’ll be splitting all of the 2-guard minutes.

by supac on Nov 23, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Can any one

put some truth into a kaman for Jason richardson trade? Richardson is better than Mobley stat wise and so is Randolph over kaman.

by Petey Pablo on Nov 23, 2008 9:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I have one of those pit in stomach feelings...

that this trade will happen. I really really hope it doesn’t but it all seems to make sense now.

-The bobcats want a center
-the clippers want offense
-The bobcats want kaman and offer wallace
-the clippers counter with kaman for richardson
-Jason Richardson is injured so the trade cant go down immediatly
-since the contracts don’t match, the bobcats cut 2 players to take on another contract in the trade
-the trade is thus kaman and hart for richardson
-the trade is still wanting on jrich to pass the physical after his knee surgery.
-the clippers continue to deny reports of a trade so they can get kaman to play hard for them and maybe win some games in the meantime waiting for the trade to happen.

-but now the clippers lack low post scoring
-z-bo to the clippers for mobley and thomas

I hope this isn’t the case. I like kaman a lot. I would much rather trade camby and the wolves pick for jRich, but I don’t hear cambys name come up in trade rumors.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Nov 23, 2008 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure hope we keep Kaman

My understanding he’s a Dunleavy favorite. He has a reasonable contract for a tier 2 NBA center, is still young and still improving. If we are going to move anyone, Camby for Gerald Wallace works contractually (the Bobcats desperately need a C) or we can sign someone like Bonzi Wells.

I hope someone fails a physical and the trade falls through but i’m definitely not renewing my season tickets next year if we trade Kaman for an oft-injured SG (both JRich and Wallace qualify).

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities. -Christian Nestell Bovee

by ClipperChuck on Nov 24, 2008 2:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i dont know...

but camby for wallace just doesn’t seem to make as much sense when you factor in the zbo trade. I say this becuse only a desperate person would trade for zbo and I think the clips were desperate for some inside scoring after agreeing to send kaman away.

We all know that dunleavy likes kaman (and baron likes kaman too), but since when does that mean anything? BTW camby for jrich works too, but i think the bobcats want a young center, not a 34 year old. Maybe if we included a few 1st round protected picks or something, but otherwise I just dont see a camby for wallace or jrich trade happening.

lastly bonzi is a horrible idea. I think there’s a reason the hornets didn’t offer him a contract after last year…

by cantthinkofagoodname on Nov 24, 2008 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

also, remember the bobcats cut their ticket prices in half

they want someone that is good now and will still be good in 5 to keep their fan base and to pair with okafor, that’s why they want kaman.

If they do trade, we had better get more than just jrich though. I would like to see felton or morrison included in the deal if it were going to happen. Felton is expendable now too since dj is playing well. Unfortunately, we really don’t have the contracts to make that happen. So we should take a page from the laker playbook and trade some retired guys to match salary. I’m sure jason williams wont mind the extra cash.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Nov 24, 2008 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs