Iverson for Billups and McDyess
The Michigan Live blog and Stephen A. Smith and ESPN.com are reporting that the Nuggets and Pistons have reached agreement on a trade that will send Allen Iverson to the Pistons in exchange for Chauncey Billups, Antonio McDyess and Cheik Samb. The trade is not final.
After watching the Nuggets against the Clippers last Friday, this trade makes sense. Or maybe it's that AI's performance makes sense now that the trade is happening. Iverson looked disinterested in that game. He got going in the second half, after the competitive juices started flowing, but he was sleepwalking in the first half. I also found it strange that George Karl was lamenting how the Nuggets had no one to turn to for a crucial basket late in the game against Utah with Carmelo out. Hello? Allen Iverson? 23,000 career points? Then Iverson played only 25 minutes against the Lakers.
For Denver, this is great. It lets them shed some salary, and maybe even get below the luxury tax threshold if they can reach a buy out with McDyess. Even without a McDyess buyout, it reduces their payroll by over $3M this season, which is significant; that alone probably gets them under the threshold. Of course, if they can't buy out McDyess, then they're more hamstrung next summer, since both Billups and McDyess are signed next season.
But even without longer term salary relief, this is a good trade for the Nuggets. They weren't going to resign Iverson - that seemed clear. And although AI has point guard size, he's clearly a shooting guard, and the Nuggets have been forced to get by with Anthony Carter at the point for too long now. With JR Smith signed long term and needing to be on the court, the Nuggets have a much more coherent starting lineup with Billups and Smith than with Carter and Iverson. Billups has also been a consummate leader in Detroit, something that the sometimes churlish and immature Nuggets would seem to need pretty desperately. How Billups fits in with the likes of Carmelo and Smith and Kenyon Martin is another story. But on paper it makes a lot of sense. Of course, moving Smith into the starting lineup just made Denver's very weak bench even weaker, but the starting five is impressive.
As for Detroit, Citizen Jax will be happy to know that they apparently have full confidence in Rodney Stuckey and are ready to hand the team over to him. Or are they going to let AI run the point? Either way, there are some unanswered questions, despite the presence of the Answer. The Pistons start all-star Rip Hamilton at the shooting guard, and small forward Tayshaun Prince is arguably their most valuable player at small forward. So what are they going to do? Do they bench Hamilton or Prince to make room for AI at shooting guard? Do they move Prince to the power forward (a la USA Basketball) and play super small? Or do they play Iverson at the point, where no one's ever had success? Or here's an interesting one - do they bring AI off the bench? At the tail end of a contract paying him $22M this season, it's clear that the AI doesn't fit into the Pistons long term plan. They've got youngsters Stuckey, Jason Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Aron Afflalo and even Walter Herrmann all playing well - AI would get in the way of their youth movement.
After the Pistons were eliminated from the playoffs, Joe Dumars said he was going to make some changes. The summer came and went and the Pistons were the least changed team in the league, and it looked like Dumars was all talk. But it just took him an extra week or so. Getting rid of Billups, the indisputed leader of that team, is huge. It certainly seems to weaken the Pistons this season.
Meanwhile, the competition for the Western Conference playoff spots just got a little tougher.
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Like The Deal
For both teams. Denver needed a point guard, and Detroit feels they have their PG of the future in Stuckey. Detroit’s team speed should get a boost…
Detroit:
PG-Stuckey/ AI
SG-AI/ Rip
SF-Prince
PF-Sheed
C-Maxiel
Denver:
PG: Billups
SG: J.R. Smith
SF: Carmelo
PF: K-Mart
C: Nene
6th-Kleiza
FYI
Detroit as been starting Amir Johnson, not Maxiell. But both of their young bigs are getting some good minutes.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Nov 3, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
Playoffs
I hate this trade from our perspective. Like you correctly pointed out, Denver’s starting lineup makes a lot more sense now. They finally have a real PG who can distribute and play defense. Plus, Chauncey is a way better leader than Iverson. I think he’ll have a really positive impact on Carmelo. They also bolster their frontcourt with Dyess for when Nene takes his annual 30 game injury.
I think Stuckey still comes off the bench for the rest of the year. There’s no way they’ll make Iverson come off the bench. That’s insulting to him and it could disrupt chemistry if Iverson pouts. Iverson and Hamilton will start, but Stuckey will get more minutes. Then at the end of the year, they let Iverson go and hand over the team to Stuckey (unless of course they win. Then they stick with it).
The 9 team playoff race just became 10.
Dyess
Supposedly he is part of the deal in name only, and has no interest in moving to Denver and playing for them.
And to think he could have been ours
I wanted to get AI for the Clips and obviously he was extremely gettable. Way to drop the ball again Dumbleavy.
Last I looked
we don’t have a player the quality of Billups on our team that we’d be willing to trade. Billups after Camby and Davis would be our best player and they can’t afford either so exactly I don’t see a match. They made a great deal with Detroit, they would not have been able to make a great deal with us.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I guess Kaman is truly worth nothing then...
I still believe Denver would have considered Kaman & Mobley for Iverson. To think that our most tradable young gun center is not even worth an aging PG (Billups) with and additional $4M on his annual salary just depresses me. I guess I will have to accept that we are stuck with Mr Flippy for another five years. Right now I would trade Kaman for a Big Mac & Fries and still be better off.
The problem isn't Kaman's value
The problem is he isn’t what they need. They have a lot of money invested in Martin and Hilario. They have Andersen and Howard to back them up. Where would Kaman fit into that rotation?
Its not that Kaman has no value, its that his value to the Nuggets is dubious, at best.
Nuggets franchise wins 03-04 → 07-08
43, 49, 44, 45, 50.
Some of those years they had Iverson. Others they didn’t.
If you look at the Nuggets, their fortune went as Camby went. Not as Iverson went. Allen Iverson added nothing to that team but a huge contract. They were the same before him as with him, and they will be better off without him.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
OK John R
Clearly you are one of the superminds that enjoy this blogsite so I ask you directly what you would do to change things. I know that you would prefer to sit pat and see, but assuming I am right, we need to seriously improve team IQ. Kaman and Mobley are the most tradable assets, so who would you trade for to improve the teams ability to run a simple set of plays?
I'm going to take a trick from the debates and only sort of asked the question that was asked
The first thing I would add to the team is an all-pro point guard. The second thing I would add is an all-pro big. This would provide veteran leadership on the court as well as improve the depth by having a proper first team and second team, instead of a mash up second team pretending its a first team and a third team pretending its a second.
Luckily for the Clippers they have those two things already.
Also, I would disagree with the premise that the problem is really execution of plays. Surely they were capable of executing plays for the quarter-plus that they were competitive with what might be the best team the NBA has seen in a while. They also were competitive for a long time with another team that is going to threaten to win 60. I turned on the TV because it was tied in the third. I saw a team just missing open shots. They got the shots they wanted, they just missed. THEN they started pressing and trying to do too much to catch up and starting taking bad shots and Kaman starts to try to do too much and the wheels fall off.
That’s what happens when you roll with a rookie PG. Sometimes the wheels fall off. And they are more likely to fall off against the great teams.
Let’s see the full team before we have to figure out what’s needed to fix it.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Great....More Competition for Us
In my opinion, this makes Denver 2x better. They now have a legitimate point (not to be confused with points) guard.
I still don't see why
Detroit would do this I don’t think they get better from, it is obvious that Denver would get alot better. But I think that this could make Detroit worse.
Iverson
Is most likely in a rent-a-player position this year, and probably wont be re-signed. They clear a lot of cap space for 08-09, or possibly wait for the 09-10 free agency bonanza. Dumars has a pretty good track record, so there’s definitely a plan in place. He thinks the team has stagnated and wants to shake things up in order to get back to the top.
Maybe the Pistons are angling for Boozer
If AI leaves at the end of the year, and the Pistons used the cap space to bring in a star big man like Boozer, they would look as good on paper as they ever have – Stuckey, Rip, Prince, Boozer and Amir with Maxiell off the bench – just as the Celtics begin to fade.
This year I don’t think AI will make the Pistons worse, and they should be a more interesting, entertaining team to watch. With Billups, they were just treading water and struggling to hold onto 2nd place.

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