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Clippers 103 - Dallas 92

Well, that was more like it.  That's how this team is supposed to play.  Baron Davis running and creating and passing for 22 points and 10 assists.  Marcus Camby and Chris Kaman rebounding and blocking shots.  Eric Gordon shooting the ball. 

The interesting thing is that this game flowed very much like the Clippers loss to Houston Friday night; the difference being that this time it was the Mavericks who fell behind and struggled to catch up, but could never get over the hump.  Dallas scored 8 straight (thanks to three straight Clipper turnovers) to tie the game at 79 with 8:31 to go after falling behind by 11 in the third.  Given the way the season has gone, there's no doubt that many of us were expecting the Clippers to collapse at that point and lose their seventh straight.  Instead, after an MDsr timeout, they reeled off 13 in a row.  And when Baron ran a pick and roll with Kaman, leapt in the air at the free throw line and threw a no look bullet to Camby as his defender rotated to Chris, the Clippers went up 14 with 3 minutes to go and the game was over.

It must be pointed out that ClipperSteve was totally wrong about the matchups.  I predicted that Kaman would guard Nowitzki and that Mobley would spend significant time on him as well.  Instead it was Camby who drew the big Deutscher, and Paul Davis defended him when Camby was out.  Camby and Davis worked hard, but Dirk still went for 33.  Fortunately for the Clippers, with Josh Howard not available, he didn't have a lot of help.  Jason Terry missed his first 11 shots and Jason Kidd finished with 7 points.  Gerald Green with 13 and Jerry Stackhouse with 10 were the only other Mavs in double figures.

The Clippers by contrast were a model of balance.  Six players scored in double figures led by Baron's 22 and Al Thornton's 17.  Had Thornton not been limited to 21 minutes because of foul trouble he might have gone for a lot more - he was 6 for 7 and Green clearly could not guard him.  

But I think the story of this game is Eric Gordon.  When he played 17 minutes against the Rockets on Friday, I thought it was a good sign, but I also guessed that it was an anomaly and probably not indicative of more minutes to come.  Well, it looks like I was wrong about that one as well.  He played almost 30 minutes and scored a career high 11 points, including 3 for 4 on three pointers.  He also had three steals (the box score shows two but Ralph and Mike and I remember three) and two assists.  The fact that the guy has been playing really solid defense (he defended Kidd for much of his court time in this game) is definitely one of the factors in earning MDsr's trust.  At this rate, he may be starting by January.

Some more thoughts on the first win of the season:

  • Against the Lakers on Wednesday, Baron tried throwing a lob to Kaman and the ball went into the basket.  Friday against Houston, they actually connected on a lob, which Kaman dropped gently into the hoop, as if he wasn't really sure what to do with the ball in that situation.  When Kaman raced ahead of Erick Dampier on the secondary break today, Baron found him and Chris actually dunked the ball.  Imagine that.
  • On a middle pick and roll in the first half, Kaman made a tough catch in traffic, kept the ball high, finished the play and went to the line for the and one.  These two plays are significant in that they indicate a growing chemistry between Baron and Kaman.  Chris has never had much chance to run in his career, nor has he played much pick and roll - but he has the skills to do both. 
  • Paul Davis played very well as the first big off the bench in the absence of Tim Thomas.  He finished with 10 points, and was plus 11 in 18 minutes of playing time.  I've always liked his passing, but I had no idea he was capable of the play he made early in the fourth quarter.  Facing a baseline double team, he dribbled toward the corner, wheeled and threw a bullet to an unguarded Camby under the basket for the dunk.  Davis didn't know what he was going to do with the ball when he left his feet... but he knew there were two guys chasing him, and that somebody was open.  It was a truly great pass, because he saw the defender rotating to cover the player on the wing, and he actually threw behind him to Camby at the last second.  (By the way, this is one of my announcer pet peeves - how many times have you heard a play-by-play guy say "You should never jump in the air to make a pass" or "He got caught in the air, and any High School coach will tell you not to jump in the air without knowing what you're going to do with the ball."  But when someone jumps in the air and actually finds a guy, they rave about what a great pass it was.)
  • For the first time in three games, Jason Hart got the call to replace Baron Davis in the first half.  Unfortunately, he proceeded to throw two passes away in his brief appearance, and it was once again Mike Taylor getting the backup point guard minutes in the second half.  Seriously, if Jason Hart is going to turn the ball over, then there's really no reason at all to play him in front of Taylor.
  • It's a little mean-spirited, but it's very positive nonetheless watching the Clippers play well without relying heavily on Cat Mobley and/or Tim Thomas.  Those two guys represent about $16M in expiring contracts in the summer of 2010 and clearly don't figure into the team's long term plans.  I'm perfectly happy to have them play well and contribute this season, but I'm even happier to see that Eric Gordon is going to be the starter sooner rather than later, and that Al Thornton is playing consistently well as the starter at the three. 
  • I realize that Howard was out and that he's an important player to them, but Dallas really looked bad in this game.  Other than Kidd finding opportunities for his teammates in early offense and isolations for Nowitzki, they really struggled to score.  Maybe they're still adjusting to Rick Carlisle, but they could definitely be in trouble as far as making the playoffs this season.  The strange thing is that for the entirety of the Cuban era, they've always had big time players, even coming off the bench.  But this summer they filled out the roster with a bunch of cast offs - Gerald Green (who is clearly a major talent, but you have to worry given that three different teams including Minnesota have given up on him), James Singleton, Shawne Williams....  Dallas looks vulnerable this year, and they'll be even worse in the not too distant future.

It's only one victory, and 1-6 is still a pretty dismal record.  But there were just so many good things that happened, it's very encouraging.  The Clippers shot season highs from the field (49%), from the three point arc (9 for 20, 45%) and from the line (78%).  They took as many free throws as the Mavericks.  They scored over 100 points for the first time.  As we've said many times, the Clippers have essentially been going through their pre-season in the first couple of weeks of the regular season.  Having to go through that process against some of the best teams in the league was unfortunate, but at least they'll only see the Lakers two more times. 

Now let's start a winning streak Wednesday.

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Gordon

Gordon was sharp, great release and there was a great pass in the first half where he dribble to the baseline and found Hart for an open two by the freethrow line. I know he’s not a PG but he’s adaquate when needed.

His defense on Kidd was great, ripping the ball from his hands twice.

As for Paul, I was impressed how much better he at executing the Screen and roll w/ Baron Davis. It was a solid screen he put on the defenders.

Finally I can breathe..

by Qlippers on Nov 9, 2008 10:09 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I meant to comment on Gordon's handle...

Late in the game, after it was more or less decided, Dallas was pressing and denying the ball to Baron. So it came in to Gordon, and he brought it up court and handled it throughout the clock. As the clock wound down, he started his move, bought some space and drained a three – he was the only one who touched the ball the entire possession IIRC. It was impressive – you certainly didn’t get the impression that you were watching a 19 year old rookie playing in his first NBA win.

I heard a lot of different things about Gordon’s handle prior to the season. I didn’t see him enough at Indiana to have a strong opinion. But I think he’s solid and although he’s clearly a two, he could play some one in a pinch. It’s actually a great luxury to have. If someone gets hurt, do you go sign a Smush Parker just to have someone bring the ball up the court? Or can you give the ball to Gordon for 10 minutes a game?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 9, 2008 10:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And if he misses the shot...

The possession is a complete disaster and Davis1 would be right to come over and give him an earful.

Gordon was obviously great, but the one area I though he still needs work was executing the offense. He still appears to be working on translating his individual skills into the NBA team game. There were a number of times where he was on the sideline and it was up to him to make the iso-entry pass and he just choked on it. Couldn’t make the pass and couldn’t figure out to swing it the other way. He still had his dribble and he just stood there.

Clippers now have a 12-0 run and a 13-0 run in back to back games coming out of MDSr. holy crap timeouts. Probably time to kill the whole timeout canard against the coach.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 10, 2008 8:29 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Respectfully disagree

On that particular shot, the Clippers were up 12 with the ball and they took possession at 2:09 in the game. 129 seconds left, 24 seconds on the shot clock, 12 point lead and Dallas isn’t fouling… the first responsibility of that possession is to use clock. If Gordon had simply held the ball for 23 seconds and then hit the rim, it would have been a good possession in that situation, not a disaster at all. The fact that he made the three (that he has that ability) was just gravy.

Having said that, I agree that the ball tends to stick some with him right now, and that he needs to work within the flow a little more. I comment below about a bad possession in the second half where someone held the ball on the wing trying to get it to Baron on the post up. I haven’t gone back to the TiVo, but I think that someone was Gordon. But he’ll get better at that.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 8:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its a kobe possession

He hit it, but if misses the next 4 in a row… Keep making that play and its going to start to bite you.

Or maybe he hits it 50% and the Clippers can go to the Dot Offense. Not a bad result I suppose.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 10, 2008 9:17 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm just saying

23 seconds of clock without a turnover was the goal. That possession in the first half is big time ugly. But he didn’t have that possession in the first half.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 10:30 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The joy is not the same without the pain

Well, the monkey’s off our back. And guess what? The schedule’s looking pretty tasty for the rest of the month. I’ll be looking forward to winning more often than not for these upcoming games.

It’s only one game, but we certainly found out we could do without Tim Thomas. He provides shooting. But we also have other guys who can shoot, and actually hustle & play defense. Just saying. Obviously, Paul Davis came up big today. I have to take back what I said about him being inactive for DeAndre. Hopefully, Davis(3) can build off of this and keep Thomas on the bench more than on the floor.

Eric Gordon. We’ve all been calling for him, and now he looks entrenched as a rotation player…he’s a big weapon on a team without an abundance of them, he’s healthy, and it should be fun watchinghim develop.

Can’t overlook the fact that this was Camby’s best game so far.

Thornton, in limited minutes was off the hook. He put his head down in the 4th and brought this much needed win home for us. How encouraging is that? Most importantly was that he took charge in the 4th quarter at a crucial time.

On the minus side…Ricky Davis. Can deal with some missed shots, but not with missing shots and turning the ball over. He’s doing it way too much.

Mobley – 32minutes (too much), 2 rebounds, 1 assist. (-4) That means we did all our damage for those 16 minutes he wasn’t on the floor tonight. +15 in 16 Catless minutes.

Dunleavy – I don’t like to ride Dunleavy, and maybe someone can help me answer this. But it’s the 3rd quarter, we’re up 11 and we just got a steal. Why take a timeout there? We have momentum, maybe on our way towards putting the game away, then he calls a timeout?? I didn’t watch the game, so maybe I’m missing something. But when I saw this develop while I was tracking the game, I couldn’t believe it. Then of course the Mavs promptly came back to close the gap. If we wound up losing, I would’ve blamed this timeout call.

by ghost_ride on Nov 9, 2008 10:40 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are missing something...

The steal was the result of a wild scramble in the backcourt. Baron was on the floor twice, the ball was getting knocked around, finally Thornton dove between two Mavs, got the ball, and called time out. The timeout was to secure possession, since Al was on the floor with Mavs on either side of him. Not a MDsr thing at all.

It was an interesting play in that it should indeed have catapulted the Clippers onto an even bigger lead, but instead the Mavs started reeling them back in. So Carlisle used the time out to get his team re-focused.

The subsequent mini-run by Dallas notwithstanding, it was great to see the Clippers diving on the floor and hustling after the ball. They definitely wanted it more than Dallas on that play.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 9, 2008 11:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice...

Thanks for clearing that up for me. God bless MDSr.

by ghost_ride on Nov 10, 2008 11:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Contributors

Gordon, Taylor, Camby, Paul Davis, & Al Thornton were probably our most effective five players today. Baron forced alot of shots though he made a few and got his 20. Paul Davis was surprisingly mobile and contributed solid minutes. Al was in foul trobule most of the game but when he was finally on the floor he hit some clutch buckets. Camby grabbed all the tough defensive boards in the fourth, something that we’ve been missing all season as guys like Millsap and Landry destroyed us inside. And the rookies; Gordon and Taylor played well together for crucial stretches (probably because they had the most minutes together during the pre-season). Right now, those two kids and Camby are the three players on our team who make effective touch passes and allow the ball to swing around the court quickly.

Perhaps Tim Thomas’ injury and Cat’s decreased minutes is improving the team’s offensive rhythm and spacing. Though a tough competitor and a pro, Cat is a ball stopper, especially when he and Tim were trying to run a pick and roll/pop between the two of them. It was painful to watch, though I’m sure that it comforted Dunleavy greatly to have those two veterans running his plays.

Gordon provided instant energy off the bench. His entrance into the game certainly made the half-empty Staples Center crowd happy. At one point in the second quarter, the lineup was Hart, Gordon, Ricky Davis, Skinner and Paul Davis (if I remember correctly). That was a stretch where Dallas could have gone on a 20-0 run but Gordon made some clutch shots and as Qlippers mentioned above; he drove into the lane, drew the defenders, and instead of forcing up a shot or trying to draw a foul, made a great ditch to Hart for an easy jumper. That was the main difference between Baron Davis and Gordon/Taylor today. There was a point in the second period where the guys in our section were calling for Taylor to replace Baron Davis when he was misfiring and ignoring our wide open shooters.

There was one other disturbing sequence where we were adamant in posting up Paul Davis in the post and along the baseline. It seemed like Dunleavy was trying to force Paul Davis into playing the EB role, as if our plays haven’t changed even though our personnel have. I’m not sure if we can convince Dunleavy that Paul Davis just isn’t the reliable offensive post player that EB was. When Skinner is playing (in the previous six games), the ball has been going to him in a half court set as well…which begs the question…why are we posting up Skinner and Paul Davis when we need buckets? Fortunately Paul Davis answered today, he made some great passes in the post and hit a jumper from way beyond his range that shocked us even as we screamed “BAD SHOT” which then became; “WAY TO GO PAUL!”

We have to win the next three games now if we have any illusions at all of being a respectable/playoff caliber team: Sacramento on Wednesday, Golden State on Saturday, and the Spurs (without Parker and Ginobli) next Monday. If we can finish this stretch 4-6 before we head east for a week, it might be possible to think about playoff contention again. Wouldn’t that be something? HOPE! Or we can be the Comeback Kids!

by MichaelCage on Nov 9, 2008 11:30 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On the subject of bad possessions...

I don’t remember exactly when it was off the top of my head, but as Dallas was cutting into the 11 point lead, the Clippers decided to post up Baron on JJ Barea. Not a bad plan, but the specific possession illustrated what can go very wrong with an offense that insists on running isos constantly. Baron didn’t have great position, Barea was working hard, whoever was trying to make the entry pass couldn’t pull the trigger… and this went on for most of the shot clock. It all resulted in a contested three attempt deep in the clock.

Either something is there or it isn’t. If the post up isn’t there, then swing the ball and do something else. Or swing it, bring it back, and try it again. But holding the ball for 10 seconds while someone tries to get better position (a) almost never results in anything good and (b) is stultifying basketball.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 7:05 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two Points

I wanted to piggy-back on two of Steve’s bullets which I thought were MAJOR positives prospectively.

Baron & Kaman – Steve talked about the growing chemistry evidenced by the pick & roll which led to an “and 1”. But I thought Steve left out the most important part of that exchange. It wasn’t the pass or the tough finish, it was AFTER the foul when Kaman walked over to Baron, and both had HUGE grins on their faces. The two were laughing about something and Kaman gave him a little pat on the back. When in the last 6 years have we ever seen Kaman have so much FUN? Usually Kaman looks like a 5 year old boy sent to his room, and at best he looks like he’s trying really hard not to mess up. I’ve never seen him so happy and relaxed. That speaks volumes about the kind of influence Baron has on Kaman and everyone else.

EJ – I actually fully expected Gordon’s minutes to continue to grow after Friday. I could tell by Ramona Shelburne’s article that Dunleavy had made up his mind to give the kid more opportunities. What I was most impressed about was Gordon’s demeanor. Everyone praises Brandon Roy for always looking calm and composed. Gordon is like that. Regardless of whether he just made a big steal or hit a big three, he looks like he just checked into the game. He’s completely calm and relaxed and never looks rattled or excited. Never too high, never too low. That’s a great complement to Baron’s fire. On that play where he drilled the three to break Dallas’ press, Gordon looked like it was business as usual. Love his composure.

Great to get that first W! Now let’s start a different kind of streak!

by madglove on Nov 10, 2008 12:35 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Totally agree

On the Kaman fun issue, I noticed that again in the second half… after the Camby dunk. Kaman was the roller on that play, and when the defense rotated to him, Baron made the no-look to Camby and the play led to a Dallas timeout. As KTLA was going to commercial, they showed the play from another angle, and after the dunk you see Kaman’s face, with a big goofy grin. And I thought, ‘Wow, he’s really having fun out there, and he didn’t even get the ball on that play.’

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 6:59 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

EJ

I agree with you. He has the composure of someone beyond his age, or most vets for the matter. Heart like lion, has the killer instinct. This kid is going to be great.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2008 8:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One reason Kaman might be having fun

he has never really had a great pg to play by him, one that can get him the ball when he wants. I mean loved Cassell but his play making qualities look elementary compared to BD. The alley oop play showed that in a big way. And ultimately I think this will help Kaman’s game because he will see he can do stuff he couldn’t do before with a first rate pg by his side.

by bestclipfan on Nov 10, 2008 2:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't know Paul Davis could pass

but it is welcome news.

Clippers have been looking better and better each game. They will be a competitive team once they settle on an identity.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 10, 2008 7:24 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I did

C’mon Mikey, you should have known this as a loyal Clips Nation reader. I told you a couple times last year.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 8:52 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I believe we were just appalled at his play in previous games

That said… yesterday changed my opinion of him entirely. He did not look like a sloth at all and his defense is SOLID. I think MDsr has a great eye for picking out diamonds in the rough. We need to have more faith in our coach.

I don’t agree with all the negative comments about TT, however. I think he had to run those isos and it wasn’t his call. There was little option left. I’ve seen him slash and cut to the rim, back out at the 3 line for the shot to spread the floor.

I just want to see DeAndre, but I guess he’s heading to the D-League. It’s for the better anyway, he needs to play!

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2008 9:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, I had heard (read) that he could pass

but I had never actually seen it. My recollection is that he likes turnaround fade-aways.

Glad to have witnessed it myself.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 10, 2008 10:42 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's Only One Game

No matter how excited I am for this first win and the fact that they look good. I don’t think we are out of doom territory yet, our record is still 1-6. I won’t feel at ease until we show that we can consistently play at this level.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2008 8:48 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Game was empty

I went to the game, no TT really helped. I don’t know how staples center can keep them.

Here are some pics:
http://flickr.com/photos/60328699@N00/sets/72157608813830954/

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 10, 2008 9:48 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Awesome!

An empty Staples was a big part of the reason I came to the Clippers in the first place. Means lots of free ticket give aways.

Unfortunately soon the team will be winning more games and the people will come back out again.

I’m not sure why its news that a team that is losing games has empty seats. Wins is the biggest predictor of attendance. The Clippers hadn’t won yet. Seems like a no brainer.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 10, 2008 10:00 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Has never been this bad.

They need to lower ticket prices for a losing team. The Clippers always had 16k tickets sold before because the price was low. After the playoffs they jacked up the tickets 2 years in a row. Now everyone is canceling their season tickets. Until the make a playoff run, it’s going to be empty.

by FireDunleavy.com on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh

Two years ago to the day that KA noted our favorite Thai spot was blowing up.

But that was a reaction to 05-06 and the crowds so far this year are the reaction to 07-08. Seems obvious.

I see CS in that thread and Zhiv. None of the negative nellies though. Must not have been trendy yet.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 10, 2008 10:07 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where's the Thai spot?

Come on you can fill me in…I’ve been a Clippers fan since I was a wee lad.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2008 10:18 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Section 208 Row 6

Shouldn’t hurt to tell one person. Its in a down cycle right now…

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 10, 2008 10:55 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 11:20 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Negative Nellies

It was still early enough that the Clips weren’t wildly underperforming yet: the Maggette debacle was racing towards ripeness. Very tough season ahead at that point.

Cute to see CS’ humility. I remembered that whole post pretty well, reading it.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2008 10:35 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I loved that post

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 10:37 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was a matine game

you would expect there not to be many people there and the turn out has been worst in past seasons. Even 05-06 the turnout was very low but after people starting taking us seriously seats were very hard to come by.

by bestclipfan on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Season-Preseason finally over

Preseason is finally over. About as excrutiating as it gets—putting together a new roster, having guys hurt, not even at full strength for a hellacious schedule of 7 games against 50+ win teams. We knew it was coming, but we didn’t realize that it would be a “preseason,” a chance for the Clips to go through trial-and-error, get healthy, and slowly get to full strength, all while digging a hole of six losses. We saw the “ascendency,” the line of competency trending upwards, now it’s finally complete, and the Clips are ready to play and compete and begin to be a real team.

The expectations were a tricky balance. We knew that the Clips were severely handicapped: no Camby at all, BD hurt, etc. But the opponents also had their own challenges, which created a complex equation: no Carmelo, no Deron Williams. It would have been great to have been at full strength and able to take advantage of the opponent deficiencies, but the Clips just weren’t in a position to do it. When you tell me that the Clips have that schedule, and they’re going to be starting Tim Thomas in the first six games, I’ll tell you that they’re probably going to lose every one of them. So take the opponent injuries out of it—they were deceptive. Let’s say that the Lakers are the Lakers, and the Jazz are the Jazz. 0 and 4. Overtime loss to Denver, 0 and 5. At best the Clips might have be 3-4 right now, and if they were 4-3 we would be ecstatic. My point is the home win against Dallas was huge, the dark days of this season-preseason are over, and Club Optimism can come back into the light. It won’t be too tough to make up a couple of games here and there, against weaker and mid-range teams, once the team gets going. If we look at the 6-game hole as a 3-game hole, you can see how quickly it can be erased as the schedule moves from bad to good.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2008 10:04 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gordon, Mobley, RDavis, Thornton

Gordon looked great. The steals were a big help, and quality defensive minutes against JKidd, because it will encourage MD to play him.

There was a secret weapon yesterday in the plan to play Gordon, however, that no one is talking about: Al Thornton’s foul trouble. That’s a big part of what made it possible.

We’re not out of the woods yet. The trick is going to be moving Gordon ahead of Ricky Davis and making him the first guy off of the bench, and once we’re there it’s going to be just as tough for Dunleavy to keep Mobley on the bench significant stretches. And those are both mountains to climb before we can even see the possibility of putting Gordon into the starting lineup. But yesterday was a great step forward.

You can see the Thornton connection in the fact that Mobley still got 32 minutes in this game. Thornton gets the quick early fouls and Ricky Davis comes in the game. Gordon subs in for Mobley and immediately makes a couple of plays. At the start of the 2nd, Thornton gets a lightning quick 3rd foul, and now Mobley comes back in for him, and Gordon is still getting minutes, while Mobley is playing SF. If Thornton doesn’t get that foul, Mobley subs in for Gordon after a couple of more minutes. And then the same thing happens in the third quarter, when Thornton gets a quick 4th foul. And Gordon gets even more minutes when Ricky Davis retaliates against Dirk’s shove and gets a technical.

So it wasn’t like “oh, Gordon’s playing really well, and I’ll leave him out there for 30 minutes.” It was a specific set of circumstances, but the key is that Gordon played well and was impressive and made the most of the minutes. Compare those minutes against the empty minutes that Ricky Davis has been playing. We’ll know that the change is really going to come when Mobley comes out before Thornton and Gordon comes in for him. Knowing Dunleavy, that may still take quite a while. Another sign, a smaller step, would be RDavis coming in for Mobley, then Thornton coming in and Gordon going in for him (welcome to the rotation!), then Mobley coming back for RDavis and playing some SF. Then Thornton comes in for Gordon.

I’d be a lot happier to take Ricky Davis out of the equation for a time, and let him play his way back in. It’s always something with Milph, and the maddening one now is that “Ricky Davis is a time bomb! He’s going to explode at any moment and put up a 15 point quarter!” So Davis hits one wide open three—the type of shot that Eric Gordon or Steve Novak would be in a contest to bury 8 out of 10—and Milph is sure that a deluge is about to strike. Instead RDavis misses a couple of shots and doesn’t do much of anything. “He’s so overdue” is one thing when it’s starting pf, no D no rebounds Tim Thomas, Quentin “20 ppg in college” Ross, Brevin “he has to hit that shot” Knight, or Walter McCarty. But on a team with guys who can shoot like Eric Gordon, it can’t last forever.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2008 10:27 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes and No on Gordon

I agree that there were some factors in increasing his minutes – I don’t think anyone expects him to average 30 min from here to the end. But the biggest factor was his play. Thornton’s foul trouble increased Mobley’s minutes over the prior game for sure, but wouldn’t Al’s situation have bumped Ricky’s minutes? Instead, Gordon gets 30 and Ricky 20. That’s very encouraging on a couple of levels. And he was the only Clipper on the floor for the entire fourth quarter. Again, that obviously says a lot about the game he was having. MDsr stayed with him because he was playing well.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 10:51 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes and No

The trick is to see how to get Gordon significant minutes when Thornton is effective and playing well and getting minutes. The only way to do it is to significantly decrease Mobley’s minutes, and Ricky’s. So yesterday might have been fool’s gold: MD got to play Mobley as much as he normally likes to, and he even got to play RDavis his usual amount, and on top of that he had a special bonus of playing Gordon. Thornton’s foul trouble forced the issue, and yes, it’s nice to see Gordon get 10 more minutes than Ricky.

But who loses minutes when Thornton takes his full helping, that’s the question. Because if Dunleavy plays Mobley 30+, and RDavis takes 20, then Gordon goes back to where he was: out of the rotation and feeding on scraps.

You can say that AT 30—CM 30—RD 20 leaves 16 minutes for Gordon. But that’s not Thornton’s “full helping,” and Cat routinely eats up much more than that as well. With Thornton playing well, Dunleavy is going to have to really cut back on RDavis just to put Gordon into the rotation at all, and he’s going to have to leave Mobley sitting for some stretches on the bench while Gordon is playing in order for Gordon to get substantial minutes.

And that’s the way it should be. It’s not like we’re trying to get Sasha Vujacic minutes here playing behind Kobe Bryant. It’s Cat Mobley. The problem is that up until now, MD has routinely played Mobley almost Bryant-level minutes, with some justification, because he didn’t have other options.

Mobley could be a great asset coming off the bench. We’re not there yet, but in order to get there MD has to find minutes, and a fair amount of them, for Eric Gordon. Ricky Davis can make good contributions as well. It’s not about being negative. We’ll see how Dunleavy handles it.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2008 1:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Last two games

Cat 21 minutes vs. Houston, 33 minutes vs. Dallas with Thornton in foul trouble, after averaging 38, 36 and 35 his first three seasons in LA. It seems like MDsr is at least trying to wean himself from his blanket.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 1:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tim Thomas, Paul Davis

Club Optimism believes that another sign that this is a year of destiny was the timely injury to Tim Thomas. More Paul Davis, please, and feel free to take your time coming back, TT, with Camby getting healthier and eating more minutes all the while.

The Kaman-Camby combination means that Paul Davis is primarily going to play PF. He can defend and rebound, unlike somebody else we know, and he can also hit open perimeter shots and run the floor a little bit. The trick is to get PDavis solidly established enough so that TThomas becomes a bit of a luxury item, rather than an essential. TThomas can be a great player on this team, he can come in and hit shots and make plays and help the Clips 2nd team gain an advantage and extend a lead, but the less the Clips “need” him, the better.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2008 10:42 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The ultimate expression

The quicker Mobley and Thomas become luxury items, the faster the Clippers can start looking at trades with teams that want their own pre-packaged 2010 plan.

Though if Gordon and Thornton are both working out real well right now, I guess its less obvious what the need is…

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Nov 10, 2008 10:57 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Surprisingly, Thomas was looking ok this year

How is it that Tim Thomas, as guy who has repeatedly clashed with coaches (Scott Skiles cut him) and Mike Dunleavy, a coach who has clashed with players, are finding a way to get along?

In fact, I think some of use proably wish there was some discord between them so that Tim’s minutes would be reduced.

I think he is at his best playing less than 20 minutes per game.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 10, 2008 11:04 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Surprisingly

TT is supposedly a very nice guy and a good citizen. He does a lot of community service as well. I think the Skiles thing earned him a bad rep, I believe it was not that he was causing trouble, but because he just didn’t seem motivated.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2008 11:11 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mike Smith said it best

I remember Smith commenting about how Thomas is always upbeat, always happy, never gets upset about things… and thinking, that’s not a good profile for a pro athlete. On the court, Thomas’ shows rare flashes of intensity, which contrast with his usual style of play, and that’s what frustrates fans. That intensity might make guys harder to get along with, but it seems necessary to achieve your best on the court. So even as Smith was complimenting him, I was thinking, ‘Eeek’ no wonder Scott Skiles hated him. In short, he may be too nice to be a great basketball player. No one ever accused Scott Skiles (or Michael Jordan for that matter) of being too nice.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2008 11:24 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thomas is LAZY

So it is a surprise that MDSr. would rely on him. They seem to have no issues.

Tim is a nice guy, unless you are Kenyon Martin .

“Fugazy” is severely underused.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 10, 2008 3:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Instead of being negative… root for TWO Clipper Teams!

I think true Clipper fans should want all of the guys (et al Ricky Davis, Tim Thomas, Paul Davis) to have a great year this year. Dunleavy is not D’Antoni. He won’t play the same 9 guys every night and let the other guys wither away until an injury pops up. Dunleavy likes match-ups. He likes to match up what he has in his arsenal of players against the opponent to where he believes he has an advantage at the most positions. That might mean Paul Davis plays center on some nights, but forward on others. It might mean Tim Thomas at center against an opponents’ 2nd unit center. The more guys are playing well, the deeper and more dangerous the Clippers are.

Watching the Lakers post game yesterday, one player mentioned that they have in essence TWO teams – the first unit and the second. That means their first unit will be fresher towards the end of the season if the second unit can hold or expand leads, or even bring them back from deficits. Why shouldn’t we want the Clippers to be the same?

If a second unit of Paul Davis, Tim Thomas, Ricky Davis, Cuttino Mobley, & Mike Taylor can get in sync, I think they can equal or best any opponents 2nd unit. This lineup would probably only happen if the Clippers are ahead but still, it could be very potent. I would enjoy seeing them beat up on other teams’ bench guys. How about you?

by moKi on Nov 10, 2008 12:30 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What do you think? Am I a horrible person for doing the following? I went to the Dallas game via tickets that were purchased from that creepy looking guy at the street corner. I was in a c-level suite for $25.00 each.

I had mentioned a couple of weeks ago that the Clippers played best when shooting well from three. When they won games during the pre season they averaged 103 ppg , when they started struggling , it went down to a hair over 70.

by Petey Pablo on Nov 10, 2008 12:50 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good Luck

continues for a team with a 1 – 6 record. Martin sprained his ankle and will be out at least a week continuing the trend of every team we have played other then the Lakers missing a key player.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 10, 2008 11:16 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to jinx the Lakers or anything...

The Lakers bus can plunge off the 105 overpass on the way to LAX and explode in a fiery crash but Kobe, Lamar, Bynum, Gasol, et al will walk away without a scratch. Sun Yue might get a sprain pinkie but that’s about it. Can we somehow get Jasen Powell in there to work with the Lakers players? Let him slash their players’ tendons for a change and leave ours alone.

by MichaelCage on Nov 11, 2008 1:27 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weird trend

The same thing happened 2 seasons ago. But the Clippers failed to capitalize. I remember one particularly brutal home loss to the Raptors sans Chris Bosh. Can’t lose to the Kings without Martin. CAN NOT.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 11, 2008 9:15 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ellis and Maggette

Ellis of course is hurt and suspended. Maggette has a sore hamstring and hasn’t played the last few games, but I believe he is ‘day-to-day’ (you’re day-to-day, I’m day-to-day, we’re all day-to-day – hat tip Keith Olbermann).

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 11, 2008 9:11 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don’t forget Al Harrington, he’s out for 2 week

Anyone see peter vescey’s article about the Clippers trying to trade Kaman

by Qlippers on Nov 11, 2008 10:22 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would that be Keith Olbermann the washed-up sports analyst

or Keith Olbermann the raving mad political pundit?

(Or are they the same guy?)

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Nov 11, 2008 12:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

Why would the clips be interested in trading kaman ? hes our only low post threat. Marcus camby despite being a good center doesnt produce enough on offense in my mind (of course this depends on who we get if we trade kaman). Yeah we cant lose to the kings. iirc we won the series 3-1 last year so…

by andrewexd on Nov 11, 2008 11:12 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not going to happen

Kaman is one of Dunleavy’s most prized players he they would have to be giving us Kobe for Dunleavy to give Kaman up.

by bestclipfan on Nov 11, 2008 1:33 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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