Clippers 98 - Oklahoma City 88
Eleven days ago, the Clippers had three wins for the season. Now, they've got three wins in a row.
Obviously, they were supposed to win against the Thunder (the worst team in the NBA, and it's not really close). But give the Clippers credit for getting it done, despite some missteps. After building up a big lead right from the outset, the reserves had a really bad stretch in the second quarter that let the Thunder get back into it. A two point halftime lead for the Clippers was momentarily erased completely, as the Thunder took the lead a couple of times in the third quarter. But veteran Baron Davis got young Kevin Durant to bite on a pump fake that resulted in three free throws with 1.8 seconds left in the quarter. The Clippers parlayed that into a five point lead going into the final period and built on it from there (it got as high as 14 at one point), leaving little doubt about who would win the game down the stretch.
A few words about the reserves. To start the second quarter, the Clippers had a unit of Jason Hart, Eric Gordon, Steve Novak, Al Thornton and Paul Davis on the floor. When Eric Gordon picked up his second foul early in the quarter, he was replaced by Mardy Collins. No wonder they lost most of the lead. When Gordon left the game, the Clippers were ahead by 14. At that point the Thunder reserves started a 17-4 run to close the lead to one, and Thornton scored the 4. Clearly the Clippers bench is offensively challenged, at least for the time being with two of their seven legitimate scorers hurt. But having 4 bench players and Thornton on the floor together is just asking for trouble. Thornton can score, and he can even create his own shot - but he can only create for himself. With 4 non-scorers joining him on the floor, MDsr is daring the other team to put all of their defensive energy into stopping Al - that's all you have to do.
But what was particularly disappointing was the defense. I realize that defensive stops (which are not that tough against that Clippers unit) lead to run outs for the other team. But if you're a second string player on the Clippers, and your offensive contributions are limited at best, then you should NOT be allowing fast break dunks going the other way. If I'd been the coach at that point, I would have taken Hart and Collins and Davis and Novak and explained to them that I can get D-League players that will get back on defense. The Thunder had very little success in the half court all night - giving up 32 second quarter points on mostly fast break layups and dunks is just inexcusable.
I will point out that the bench guys redeemed themselves a little in the fourth quarter. Through three quarters, the Clippers had gotten zero points from the reserves. But they did contribute10 points down the stretch, allowing Baron to get a just a little rest. Unfortunately, 4 Clipper starters still wound up playing at least 38 minutes, which could really start to wear on them by the end of 4 cities in 5 days.
I was prepared to write about how the Clippers managed to get a win without Zach Randolph being unstoppable... and then I noticed in the box score that he still had 22 and 13 on 9 for 20 shooting. He's now scored at least 21 in all 9 games he's started for the team - and not coincidentally, the Clippers are 5-4 in those 9. Even though his shot was off tonight - he was 1 for 9 on jumpers - he still managed to get his points around the basket. And maybe it's just a honeymoon period, but he's a much better sharer than we were led to believe. It's worth noting that a couple of those scores from the second unit came courtesy of passes from Zach. Playing Hart and Collins with Randolph works much better than playing them with Thornton. Randolph can force the double, and then when someone is open he finds them (4 assists tonight). Al still has a long way to go in that area of his game (1 assist tonight).
Randolph was joined for game high scoring honors by Eric Gordon, who played maybe his best game as a pro tonight. He's had games where he scored more, but 22 points on 11 shots is great efficiency. He scored in a variety of ways. He made 3 of 6 three pointers, but he also got into the lane with regularity, and he converted 4 of 5 two point attempts. Add in the good defense he played on Russell Westbrook (and occasionally on Kevin Durant) and you have a really good all around performance by the rookie.
With Chris Kaman and Ricky Davis targeting a return after Christmas, the Clippers have four more games with this talented but thin unit - against four Eastern Conference teams that are struggling. It's difficult relying on your top five for almost all of your scoring. (And let's face it, we're really talking about four scorers, since Camby gets most of his points on put backs.) Maybe they can keep it rolling, knowing that help is on the way soon. They have to continue to play good defense, and hope the starters continue to produce (all five were in double figures for the third straight game).
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All these minutes are bound to catch up to the starters...
someone from the bench needs to step up during the next 4 games!
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
by Lawler's Law on Dec 16, 2008 10:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
DeAndre Jordan...
Just kidding, I think it needs to be Mike Taylor. As soon as RD and CK get back, we should be alright.
by Newtybar on Dec 16, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know...
After the horrendous 2nd quarter tank I was wondering, for the first time really, if it wouldn’t be good to get DJordan out there for a few minutes. He’s a logical backup to Camby, blocking shots and getting rebounds, and I wonder if DJordan-Davis3 would have fared better than Davis3-Novak-Thornton-Collins. Camby is so great out there, does so many things, and DJordan is more of a poor man’s Camby than Davis3. But Kaman will solve that problem soon enough.
On a team that is now playing with skill and enthusiam, and getting youthful energy out of a number of guys, DJordan might be able to do a little bit of damage at some point. The Clips don’t need him to do much of anything for a couple of years, when Camby’s deal is up, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t find some spots for him here and there. When the team is winning and there’s so much positive energy, everybody starts to look good.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 17, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So far it hasn't been an issue...
Only because the team had 3 days off going into the back to back against Portland & Houston.
2 Days off going in to tonight. So up until now, I don’t think we’ve seen the effect of the heavy minutes much, but maybe tomorrow and by the end of the trip we’ll start to see some fatigue.
The tough thing about tonight’s early collapse was this could have been a great game to rest the starters for the rest of the trip.
by ghost_ride on Dec 16, 2008 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, it's a winning streak.
I know that the fatiuge will most likely catch up with these guys, but as Clipper fans we don’t have a whole lot of time to look at the bright side. Let’s enjoy this three game streak and not wait for the team to collapse. When they do, then we can get back to complaining.
by WestsideBrandon on Dec 16, 2008 11:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Staying Alive
Obviously, we picked up right where we left off in the first quarter tonight, dominating the game inside and out. Then, early in the 2nd quarter, (as CS thoroughly explains) Gordon picked up his 2nd foul. Dunleavy goes by the book and takes EJ out of the game, which caused my heart to skip a beat…some bad vibes crackled in the back of my mind, "This means someone has to come off the bench to replace him." Of course, that someone was Mardy Collins. Ouch. Mardy enters the game and promptly goes classic Mardy, lazily driving to the basket, getting his pocket picked by Durant, leading to an insane transition dunk by Durant himself, totally energizing the crowd, and most definitely getting the talented young OKC boys energized and intent on getting back in the game…just as they had done against the Spurs in their previous game.
If this were the old Clippers, we probably would’ve caved. Luckily, we have Randolph, Eric Gordon, & a healthy Marcus Camby to bail us out of such jams. A recent history of winning also may have came in handy, but all things considered, tonight’s win, given the circumstances, was pretty impressive. You can tell OKC is playing with purpose for their new head coach, and they are a much better team now than when we beat them last. They may have improved more than we have, especially if they can get that kind of play out of Wilcox. As was feared, their depth at guard, especially PG, gave them a big edge. Their tandem of Westbrook & Watson shows just what a luxury having two capable floor generals can be. Add Kevin Durant and Jeff Green, and you’ve got some serious young talent. Their gaping hole continues to be Center, and largely thanks to that, we were able to get the "W" tonight. Either way, I don’t see them finishing the year as the worst team in the league.
With the current starting 5 continuing to impress, tonight exposed 1 of the 5 as the potential weak link. It’s more a process of elimination. It’s certainly not Randolph or BD. Couldn’t be Camby. It’s hard to complain about Gordon, especially considering his Defensive ability. It’s one Al Thornton. When he’s attacking the rim, we love him. When he tries one iso fade away after another, turns the ball over, and fails to pass the ball effectively, we’re amazingly not so annoyed at seeing Mardy or Novak replace him. Thornton is the new Kaman. Above average talent, can even dominate at times, followed by complete ineptitude and bad decision making. Perhaps the bigger issue, they lose confidence easily, and get down on themselves. Is it any wonder this team couldn’t win with Thornton & Kaman as BD’s "go-to-guys"? As with any lecture against Thornton this year, we have to cite that this is only his 2nd year, and he continues to improve. If he can limit his off games to around 1 out of every 5 games, we can probably live with that. As it’s been this year, I count about 8 off games for Al out of 24, or about 1 out of 3. It goes a long way to explain what we see out of Al overall. 1 part amazing, 1 part solid, and 1 part wtf?
One thing of beauty with our team right now is the way Randolph & Camby our playing together. They complement eachother well, and you can count on both of them for playing hard, playing tough, and making good decisions. It used to be count on Brand, and maybe you get Kaman. Randolph + Camby > E.B. + Kaman ? Could be.
The other thing of beauty occurring with the team is the development of Eric Gordon. Tonight was his first 20 pt. game w/ Randolph starting along with him, and if there’s one thing he’s shown so far this year, it’s that he’s capable of making big shots. It’s no surprise that our 3 game winning streak has featured elevated play from our prized rookie.
EJ’s stats for his first 11 starts (Last 3 games in parenthesis):
Minutes: 36+ (41)
Points: 12.7 (16.3)
Rebds: 3.5 (4.3)
Assists: 2.5 (2.7)
T/O: 1.2 (0.7)
Steals: 1.6 (1.3)
Blocks: 1.0 (0.3)
FG: 54/111 – 48.6 (66.7)
3Pt: 20/53 – 37.7% (42.9)
FT: 75.9% (70%)
by ghost_ride on Dec 16, 2008 11:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great Post
Intimidating length, but who am I to talk. Lots of great points. Good breakdown of Thornton into three parts. He’ll probably end up as less the new Kaman than the new Maggette, but the lack of productivity at times, combined with similarity between the one-dribble and one-jab step rules, makes the Kaman comp apposite. And he can be better than Maggette, if he just gets it together a little bit. Rebounding fall off from him last night, just two offensive. One bad game out of every three isn’t so horrible with the ridiculously lame start by the Clips, and the goal is to go from 33% to 20%—maybe by the midpoint.
Gordon stats are great. Blocks are slowing down, and I’m sold on the idea that the Clips need rebounding from the wings and the guards. Loved his arch and touch on a number of shots last night. I think he’s getting close to breaking out for a huge game soon, but there’s no rush, and it’s nice to see him doing all sorts of different things and playing solid. This chunk of time with Mobley gone and Davis2 out has been fantastic for getting Gordon established.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 17, 2008 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Zhiv
I thought it was way too long myself, but then i remembered your posts. Still like Thornton more than Maggette overall…really hoping he can bounce back tonight. The main comparison I make with him and Kaman is that they do lose confidence in themselves whereas the other 3 vets a much more rock-like inner strength, and a much better response to adversity. Hopefully that will come in time for Al, and who knows about Kaman.
by ghost_ride on Dec 17, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hart has moved ahead of Taylor for now
but at least Taylor can also create a shot. Hart can’t.
Zach is simply a much better player than I expected. It seems funny now that so many of us were dead set against acquiring him, especially in the summer after FElton defected. Some of the reasons are legit. His contract is big. He does have a reputation.
But the guy is producing more than I ever imagined, and he is not the “blackhole” in the paint or selfish knuckle-head that he was built up to be in Portland. His defense has been good enough, and he has shown willingness to pass the ball.
I think Zach is really benefiting from the strong veteran leadership on this team. Davis and Camby are good influences, and are unlikely to put up with any crap. He is also benefiting from the fact that MDSr’ s offense is practiaclly taylor-made for a player with his skill set. At a glance, they seem like they would be oil and water, because ZBo’s reputation is that he just likes to chuck it up. But he has not taken many bad shots in his Clipper career. And he is as good a finisher around the rim as anybody in the league. Seriously.
I’m curious to see whether Kaman or Camby starts when Chris returns. Probably Camby for now. Kaman will bring much needed scoring off the bench.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Dec 17, 2008 8:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kaman coming off the bench doesn't sound bad...
I wonder how he would accept it though. Does he have the maturity to take it gracefully? Another one of my concerns is, who will be feeding him the ball?
A bench of :
Mike Taylor
Ricky Davis (pre-Clipper version)
Chris Kaman
Paul Davis
Mardy Collins/Steve Novak
Doesn’t sound too bad…
by Newtybar on Dec 17, 2008 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How could he not...
The team is playing well without him, and he wants to take his time coming back, so I don’t see it being a problem at all. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t worked in slowly.
by ghost_ride on Dec 17, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know ZBo can hit 3 pt buckets?
by Qlippers on Dec 17, 2008 8:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
D'Antoni
Conventional wisdom has it that D’Antoni moved ZBo out past the 3 pt line. Hallelujah!
Anybody want to do a little comparison between ZBo’s 3 pt shooting as a Clipper against that of Tim Thomas?
by citizen zhiv on Dec 17, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kaman off the bench
It’s premature to get into this too deeply, and perhaps this should be its own topic and a fan post, but maybe I can just check in on it for a second and then CS will do a more in-depth review.
It seems like we’re headed towards thinking that it’s a no-brainer for Kaman to come off the bench. There is the luxury of coming off an injury, where at least for a couple of games you get to experiment just to see how it goes as he gets his legs and his game back.
But it looks like we might want to get out the analytical seat belts, as this could be a long and bumpy ride in classic Clipper fashion. Many of us are veterans of the Maggettifesto days, so don’t be surprised if we’re a bit gunshy and anxious. The good news is that having 3 productive bigs could be a fantastic high class problem, without the downside of the QRoss-Maggette debate.
There are just so many facets here, it’s mind-boggling. Let’s start by noting that Kaman is so unique and strange that nothing in which he’s involved is ever completely straightforward and normal. We don’t gain much by looking at Ross-Maggette, but we do go back to Kaman-Brand-Wilcox, ironically enough after Wilcox put up a monster 2nd quarter last night, just as a reminder. But Kaman 2.0 is a completely different player from the days of that controversy. Maybe we should just look at what Wilcox did last night as a harbinger of what Kaman might start doing to other teams, along with the fact that a guy like Wilcox doesn’t go off like that if Kaman is in there. Camby and Kaman 2.0 are vastly superior to Kaman 1.0 and Wilcox. High class problem.
You also have to get into the familiar issue, very tricky in this case, of “it doesn’t matter who starts” and who is in the game at the end, during crunch time. That’s where it’s really going to get intense.
I’ve been meaning to write the discussion of BSimmons and Mark Stein (on Simmons’ podcast), which happened last week before the modest Clipper win streak. Simmons sticks to not liking Zach Randolph (“it’s Zach Randolph”), which he may be revising, like many of us, at this point. And he says that the trade only makes sense if, as soon as you make it, you trade Kaman. Then they talk at length about who would want Kaman and his contract—and they seem to think that Kaman’s contract is bad and burdensome, which is interesting. They also spend time talking about taking on Camby’s deal—it’s a rather lengthy Clippers discussion, with Simmons sticking to his “how is Dunleavy not fired point,” and this is before Heisler weighed in on that issue—but they don’t talk about how it’s an expiring 2010 deal. That fact tips the scales decidedly against trading Kaman. But again, this was discussed when the Clips were just showing signs of playing well, before they actually started winning.
We waited for seemingly forever to see Kaman 2.0-Brand and it never happened. We never saw Kaman-Camby because of Camby’s injury. Now we’re watching Camby-Randolph and it has been nothing short of marvelous. Can the Clips please keep playing well and get some wins and get Camby-ZBo-Kaman as a Christmas present, after all of our patience and the team’s struggles? Please? Really, Santa—is that too much to ask?
by citizen zhiv on Dec 17, 2008 12:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Funny
I had already begun the ‘Who comes off the bench?’ post. But now that you’ve stolen much of my (OKC) thunder, I’m going to have to work much harder on it.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 17, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is a tough decision
In the locker room, i’m sure electing Kaman as our 6th man would be the more popular decision. You have to respect Camby, considering his experience and the way he’s playing with Zach. On the other hand, do you really want Kaman playing with the 2nd unit guys for long? Probably not. That being said, if Kaman does come off the bench, he’ll most likely be replacing Camby and will be playing with Zach, then Marcus, then he’ll sit for Zach again, etc. It should be fun.
The guard rotation is another can of worms. Backup PG/SG right now is something we can hopefully address in next years pg heavy draft, but at least we have Ricky Davis waiting in the wings to hopefully minimize Mardy’s minutes.
by ghost_ride on Dec 17, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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