Clippers at Chicago - Game Preview and Open Thread
by Steve Perrin on Dec 17, 2008 5:00 AM PST
in Game Previews
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PrintLos Angeles Clippers at Chicago Bulls, Dec 17, 2008 5:30 PM PST
| 2008/2009 NBA Regular Season | ||
|---|---|---|
 |
vs. |
 |
| 7-17 | 11-13 |
|
| United Center |
||
| December 17th, 2008, 5:30 PM | ||
| FSN Prime Ticket |
||
| Probable starters: | ||
| Baron Davis |
PG | Derrick Rose |
| Eric Gordon |
SG | Ben Gordon |
| Al Thornton |
SF | Luol Deng |
| Zach Randolph |
PF | Drew Gooden |
| Marcus Camby |
C | Aaron Gray |
The Big Picture:
The Clippers head into Chicago riding a three game winning streak and winners of four of the last five. In fact, going back over the 10 games they played with Zach Randolph, they are 5 and 5 with wins over Portland and Houston, and near misses against some of the hottest teams in the NBA right now, the Nuggets, Mavericks and Magic. And that's without Chris Kaman and Ricky Davis. In short, there's reason to suspect that the Clippers are a pretty good team right now. Their starting five has been playing really well lately. All five have been in double figures for all three games in the winning streak. And guys like Camby and Gordon and Baron give you a lot more than scoring as well. The bench is problematic - they cost the team the lead in the first half in Oklahoma, and if they don't step up they're going to cost the team a win or two on this road trip. But if they can provide some hustle and some defense, the starters should be able to handle the scoring.
The Antagonist:
Every time you think the Bulls are going to be really good, they surprise you by sucking again. OK, they don't completely suck. But remember when people were predicting that the Bulls would win the NBA title after they signed Ben Wallace? How'd that work out? This time they lucked into the number 1 overall pick, and used it on Derrick Rose. Rose has not disappointed - he's averaging over 18 points and 6 assists per game. Although he struggled mightily last night in Charlotte shooting just 3 for 16, on the season he's shooting 48% from the field - an unusually high number for a rookie or for a point guard - ridiculous for a rookie point guard. There's lots of young talent on this roster - they have 5 top 10 draft picks from the last 5 drafts (Rose #1 2008, Joakim Noah #10 2007, Tyrus Thomas #4 2006, Luol Deng #7 2004 and Ben Gordon #3 2004) - but Noah and Thomas have yet to show any consistency, and the team continues to lack any sort of low post threat. And no, Aaron Gray is not the answer. Rose's ability to penetrate makes them less dependent on jump shots than they have been in the past, but they're still going to live and die with their shooting.
The Subplots
- Who's Tired? Both teams played last night and then traveled to the second (really third, but whatever) city. The Bulls went to OT in their loss in Charlotte, and the Clippers of course won in Oklahoma City. Two Clippers starters played 38 minutes, and two played 41 minutes. The Bulls backcourt played huge minutes - 47 for Rose, 49 for Gordon. For what it's worth, the Bulls game ended a little earlier, and the trip from Charlotte is a little shorter (568 miles versus 693 miles). OKC to Chicago is not an easy trip for a back-to-back.
- Wacky NBA Schedule Makers. Speaking of the back-to-back, the Clippers schedule has been particularly strange this season, don't you think? First there were all of the tough teams in the first month. And while the Clippers haven't played very many back-to-backs so far, the real bane of an NBA team is the "4 cities in 5 nights" trip. It doesn't happen very often, but the Clippers are on their second such trip in three weeks. And these whirlwind periods are juxtaposed with periods of complete inactivity; they had three days off last week, and they have five days off next week. FIVE DAYS OFF?! What is that? I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing. We couldn't have put some of those rest days between all these back to backs? Remember to bench any Clippers on your fantasy team next week.
- Me likey the matchups. The Clippers starters hold their own at every position against the Bulls. Rose versus Baron is going to be interesting - the rookie versus the vet. It could go either way, but I like Baron's experience here. Gordon versus Gordon (see below) is very interesting, and while you can give Ben the veteran edge, EJ is the better defender and I think he can shut Ben down (or rather he would, except that MDsr is giong to stick EJ on fellow rookie Rose). Deng versus Thornton is a nice battle - Deng was well on his way to an All Star career two seasons ago, but has taken a couple of steps backwards. I think you have to give the edge to Al here at this point. And the bigs are no contest. Zach is on a tear. Meanwhile, Camby will get to roam all he wants looking for blocks against the limited scoring of the Chicago bigs. Camby's presence could really limit Rose's effectiveness getting into the lane, although shockingly Marcus had zero blocked shots in Oklahoma City last night.
- Gordon versus Gordon. Since before the 2008 draft, and continuing into his rookie season, Clipper Eric Gordon is compared to Ben Gordon more than any other NBA player. Frankly, I think the comparison is a tad facile. They have the same last name, I get that. And they can both shoot. It would be great if EJ turned into as prolific a scorer as his namesake, which I think he will. But EJ is going to be a much more complete player. The other thing the pundits say is that they're both undersized 2 guards. This is where it starts to break down for me. While both players are listed at 6'3", take a close look when they're next to each other tonight. And height aside, EJ is just built differently - he's not an undersized shooting guard in any regard other than where is head ends when he's standing flat footed. His arms are long, he jumps out of the building... it's just not a problem. Ben on the other hand is a major defensive liability; partly because of his size, but mostly because he is just not a good defender.
- Former Clippers, Now Coaches. Last night it was Scott Brooks, who spent the lockout shortened 1999 season on the Clippers bench. Tonight it's Vinny Del Negro, who, like Brooks, never actually played a game for the Clippers. There's Doc Rivers in Boston. Bob McAdoo is an assistant in Miami. Any others you can think of?
- More Vinny Del Negro Trivia. What was the significance of the trade that brought Vinny Del Negro to the Clippers at the end of his pro career?
- Superstar for one game. Tough one. Tyrus Thomas? His got season high of 22 last night. His career high is 26. His athleticism could give Zach Randolph some trouble.
- Get the Bulls perspective at Blog-a-Bull.
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Difficult matchup
We have problems defending the screen and roll. Plus, keeping active big men off the glass. I want to see how we do against Noah, Thomas, Deng, Norciani, etc.
Their bigs
Should be zero problems for us knock on wood. Their wings are what should concern us as any of them can get hot on any given night.
I like the Clippers in a close game tonight
Really gotta defend the 3 pt. line. And somebody has to stay in front of Rose.
In last year’s game @ Chicago, Cuttino Mobley went off. I think he was 12-12 from the field at one point in the 3rd quarter. The Generic, “up-tempo” Clippers won the game to improve to 4-0 on the young season, surprising us all given the absence of Brand. It would turn out to be the longest win streak of the year, and the last time the Clippers would be anything – 0 for at least two years.
Different team, different year.
F-Elton!
well you could argue
we were 0-0 at the beginning of the season.
Four is doable
If only because the Bulls played a horrible game in OT last night and probably aren’t feeling so great about themselves. They’ll come into tonight’s game just begging to shut it down and call it a night. I think if the Clips jump on them early, it could be over early.
The test of course will be how hungry the Clips remain. As Newtybar was saying in the last thread (sorry I jumped all over you), the team does look like they could be in danger of getting too full of themselves. That seems odd to me given what a massive, hulking disappointment they’ve been this season.
Talent-wise, there’s no reason we should lose this game. The Bulls are a bunch of mis-matched parts with no chemistry. Yet, we’ve clearly lost to less talented teams this past season.
I think the primary goal should be containing Ben Gordon and Derrick Rose. When those two play well, the Bulls have a chance to win.
Here’s hoping for 4!
Del Negro
I believe the Clippers traded for him solely for his contract so that they met the MINIMUM for the salary cap. One of those classic Clipper moves that stigmatizes this franchise to this day.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities. -Christian Nestell Bovee
Correct...
The Clippers got Del Negro’s contract to reach the NBA minimum salary… they also got cash in the deal. In the same deal, Orlando gave up a draft pick that would become Amare Stoudemire and Bo Outlaw (a contract they wanted to get rid of) for Jud Buechler. I’m saying Phoenix was the winner on that trade.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 17, 2008 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Did ORL dumping of the draft pick clear up space room for Hill and Tmac?
Been awhile but I think the Magic dumped their picks so they could sign Hill and Tmac (well they really wanted Duncan and Hill, imaging if they had Duncan and Tmac in their primes…)
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities. -Christian Nestell Bovee
by ClipperChuck on Dec 17, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
No...
TMac was already there – in 2000, and this trade happened in 2001.
Outlaw was the key as far as I can tell. They signed him away from the Clippers for very little in 97 2/$2.2M. IIRC, the Clippers had offered him more. Then, for some reason, they gave him 5/$28M in 99. WTF? So in 2001, they just wanted out of that contract (partly because now they had to pay Hill and TMac), and the draft pick was what they had to give PHX to make it happen.
Here’s the other thing. The pick had originally belonged to PHX. It was ORL’s property as a result of the Penny Hardaway trade. PHX won 51 games in 2000-2001, and so in Nov. 2001 the PHX pick was looking like it would be in the mid-20s. But Stephon Marbury sprinkled some magical ‘losing dust’ on the franchise, they won 36 games that season, the pick had no lottery protection…. and voila – Orlando gave up a top 10 pick that became Amare Stoudemire in order to get rid of Bo Outlaw.
These things fascinate me.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 18, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Keys Tonight
We need Al to bounce back tonight. He’s probably the freshest of the starting five, given that he only played 29+ against OKC.
Anything we can get out of the bench is a plus. Dunleavy might want to adjust by not putting too many bench players in the game at the same time. Rotate them in and out 1 and 2 at a time in the 2nd quarter no matter what the score is.
I’d say this game is a “should win”, as opposed to last night’s “must win”. As people have been saying, the next 7 games are all winnable, let’s see how many we can get. 5 would be nice.
Reserves
It seems obvious, but still it didn’t happen last night in the first half. He can’t have Zach and Baron out at the same time. Last night he had 4 reserves and Al when the wheels came off. He’s got to be smarter than that. In the second half, he kept Zach on the floor while Baron was resting. Then he got some rest for Zach after the lead was safe. If the score had remained tight, who knows how many minutes Zach would have played. It’s a tough situation – we can’t wear out these guys. But I’d say that for the time being, 2 starters (one being Baron or Zach) have to be on the floor at all times.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 17, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
Typical Dunleavy
I think Dunleavy gets arrogant and overconfident way too much. Sure you need some to be a winner, but when you start playing FOUR bench guys with one sophmore in the second quarter, you’re basically slapping the other team in the face. Dunleavy was either way too overconfident that his bench guys could keep the lead, scoring and defending or he was trying to send some lame message to the other team -“give it up guys, the game is over – we put in our entire bench – put yours in, roll over and die.”
Dumb move. CS is on point. You gotta keep at least one of your stars (AT does not count yet) out there and be smarter in your rotations. What did he think? He could rest up his stars at the same time for the next night’s game? You should never take the game at hand for granted. Zach, Baron and Camby are the stars. Rest them at different times – forget the matchups (Especially against OKC!). Make sure one or two of them are out there at all times.
Apart from them, this is a very inexperienced team. The bench guys need the stability of one or two of them in the game at all times. Unless there was some physical reason(s) for Dunleavy to play 4 bench + AT, it was a bad move. Stop it Dunleavy!
That may be it
Or maybe he was trying to let the starters rest since last night’s game was the first of 4 in 5.
It may be hubris I guess, but based on a longer look at MDSr’s behavior, it was more likely foresight and trying to take advantage of an available opportunity.
The tragedy is the Clippers’ bench without Davis2 and Kaman can’t keep the Thunder at arms length so the starters can sit a spell.
Just seems like a nitpick after winning 3 in a row.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Right
He took a shot and it might have worked if Mardy didn’t make that unfortunate play immediately upon entering the game. Don’t guys usually hang out for a while once they get in the game? This guy just says, “give me the ball, i’m taking it to the rack on durant’s head!”
True
It’s nitpicking because they won. But if they had lost it wouldn’t it have been a major mistake on MDsr?
I understand the resting on first of 4 games in five nights thing, but that was exactly my point. Resting Zach, Baron and Camby at the same time? You should never look ahead in the schedule during a game (especially in the second quarter!) I guess what I’m trying to say is he was grossly underestimating the Thunder and that’s how you get beat. I’m sure the Clippers have won a couple of games because of other teams underestimating them.
If you’re not careful in your rotations and who you leave on the floor, every NBA team, no matter how bad, has the ability to take away momentum and steal a game from you.
I agree with you
But it was a learning process. If you had told me prior to the game, I’m going to leave AT in with the second unit, I wouldn’t have said anything bad. I would figure, AT should be enough scoring power.
Before this would you have taken as much issue as you have now?
Hindsight is 20/20.
Although, we aren’t paid millions per year….
Not to be snooty
“Before this would you have taken as much issue as you have now?” – Yes I would.
To me Al Thornton is too wild and inconsistent. If before the game you told me MDsr was gonna leave in Gordon + 4 bench guys with a ten point lead in the second, maybe I would have have thought that was ok. Maybe.
But Al is too prone to going one on one. I’m sick of his constant leg shaking head down jab step, jab step, jab step, only to rise up for a bad % shot. He needs to learn how to drive and dish. Instead of drive and charge – offensive foul – turnover.
Underestimating?
They destroyed them in the first quarter. They won the game comfortably.
The Thunder have 2 wins.
I don’t think its possible to underestimate the Thunder at this point. However low a basketball team can be, they are there.
I mean, the Lakers could have blown a second half lead of like 50 points in the Finals by looking ahead and…oh, that happened?
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
However bad they are
They’ve shown the ability to come back against good teams the last couple of games. Maybe they can finally get a quality big man in next years draft.
If anything
I think he knows now that Thornton + 4 2nd unit guys is a recipe for disaster. At least 2 starters on the floor at all times sounds like a good plan. Maybe he’ll give Taylor a chance tonight, he definitely must have some fresh legs.
Blog-a-Bull
Has the Bulls winning by 12…seriously? LOL Can I take that bet please?
The Clips may not win, but we’re not losing by double digits to that crappy team. GUARAN-DAMN-TEED!
Steve, you need to have a blog-bet with that guy on this game. Take his 12 points and laugh all the way to the bank.
do it Steve
show them that the clippers are not to be underestimated. Maybe should do the same thing you did with Blazers bet, if we win they have to write a song praising the clips and if we lose then we do the same for them.
we got no bench
If our starters doesn’t get it going… it may be a possibility
I still think we win this game
Looks like Blogabull may be right...
It’s not over yet….
Camby
back in the game- clips by 3.. man Camby is everywhere
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281217020
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
wouldn't you know it was a former Bruin who did him in...
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
Steve, you picked the wrong Clipper Killer!
Nocioni is killing us!
too close to call
but i think we got this game, unless we choke up really bad
4PT play....
Yay…..got to love the Clips
I love LAC.
that was all dunleavy
his favorite play. iso to thornton which makes no sense at all
why not trust baron?
it’s what you pay him all that money for
I meant to say it wasn't the plan
I love LAC.
WHY??
doesn’t Z-Bo touch the ball on the final play, at least to draw the double. the Bulls haven’t been able to stop him all night…UGGGH
We are getting desperate
Eric Gordon is still a rookie…..that foul shouldn’t have happened.
I love LAC.
That was another example......
…. of the fine coaching!
Now the game is over.
Thank you Eric Gordon….Ben Gordon outplayed him tonite. The growing pains continue for the Clips.
I love LAC.
Baron threw away that lucky break...
Baron..6 for 23, uggh. Camby, 26 boards, wow.
There's that three attempt...
….by Baron that you were asking for.
Ooops..
27 boards.. an awesome effort wasted
why is baron 6 for 23?
damn that is soo inefficient
if only...
Baron can increase his FG^% to 35-40% we would be really tough to beat. Can’t blame this loss on Baron though…he was playing more as a faciliator and we became too predictable and dependent on Z-Bo in the low post in the end.
The ref change...
the 4 point play.. the horrible final play call… the turnover by Gordon… the chucking of 3’s at the end. same ol’ f*cking clippers =(
am i the only one angry at the refs changed of mind
30 seconds after the call……its getting ridiculous how many times they change their mind and give the other team the ball on us…. that would have put us up by 3..
Has Davis always been....
…..this bad of a shooter?
Dumblooneystrikes again.....
….his inability to have his team ready for clutch situations causes his teams to lose again and again in the fourth quarter, giving up leads. It’s been the mark of his entire coaching career. If you have a nineteen yo on the floor in that situation, the first thing you do is tell him NOT to foul. Even an open 3 made gives you a one point lead with no more shot clock. Chi would have to foul.
Don't know what was said in the TO
on that 4 pt play. Even if he did remind the players to not foul, he can’t control what they do when the play starts.
Now, that last play in the 4th quarter. Was that play for Al or was Zbo being held onto and couldn’t get free???
Yes, i'm sure Eric Gordon knew the rules of basketball
Let’s chalk it up to Ben Gordon making a spectacular play. Eric Gordon is young, and if everyone projects him to be a star, he has to grow into these situations. Maybe Mardy Collins should have been guarding Ben, i don’t know.
I love LAC.
Tough loss
Baron shot some ugly shots, the refs changing their minds.
Is it me or it seems like every close game w/ the clips equals to one questionable call that always gets reversed in the other teams favor?
It's not you....
….it’s happening a lot….it’s pretty questionable.
I didn't see it....
….what was the questionable call?
Dunleavy...
makes questionable calls all night.
by blowbyability on Dec 17, 2008 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
STUPID DISH DVR
My stupid DVR chopped off the end of regulation and overtime. The last I saw was Baron with the ball, game tied and 20 seconds left. WHAT HAPPENED? Did they not get a good shot up for a win? Did they melt in OT?
ARRRRRGGGGGGGG. Stupid DVR!
Someone please recap the bad ref thing
What happened?
109 108 Clips with 1 minute to play
Thornton gets ball and goes strong to the hole….whistle…FOUL…on Chicago….Thornton is at the freethrow line about to shoot freethrows…WHISTLE…ref changes his min d…its now an offensive foul. Bulls get the ball.
Thanks Newtybar
I’m almost glad i DIDN’T see it. Maybe my DISH DVR was saving me from a heart attack. I hate feeling like NBA refs have it out for the Clippers….
Del Negro
was in the refs ear for like 30 seconds and they reverse the call… I guess he was reminding them that they had cash on the Bulls. Doesn’t seem like the refs respect Dunleavy very much.
by blowbyability on Dec 17, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
That's pretty bad.....
…of course they should not have even been in that situation. They should have won in regulation.
Cant win em all
For those who know the NBA is fixed…morning line was Bulls by 6.
Pretty weird, huh?
Make your free throws. On to the next one.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Damn it
we had Lawler’s Law on our side.
I thought it was the LAW
It's the law unless
The refs fixed the game
The foul on EJ for the 4 pt play
was pretty questionable as well.
That foul was questionable
Give to Ben, he sold it like reggie miller
I did see that one
UNBELIEVEABLE. Clips should have won it in regulation. Never a good idea going into OT on the second night of a back to back on a road trip.
Hopefully this teaches them that they need to win decisively (by 10 or more) every game. Or else the refs will find ways to give the other team the win. Poor Marcus and Baron. Welcome to the Clippers – where if there is any doubt at all, all calls go against you.
Yeap only to the clippers
I’m still waiting for the clippers to be up by 24 pts w/ 10 secs in the game and the NBA introduces the 25pt basket as used in the 1990s MTV Rock and Jock games.
They have no chance to make the playoffs...
….if they lose any more games like this. If they don’t make the playoffs, they should certainly fire Dumblooney’s ass for that!
Playoffs is a tough and long route here
If anything, we can be somewhat respectable and show up every night and play because watching team the first 12 games was horrible
In other news, Brand is injured. He better be in LA on new years eve
Playoffs???
you’re talking about playoffs??? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game. (trademark, Jim Mora)
by blowbyability on Dec 17, 2008 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
If anything
we can spend endless hours playing Chad Ford’s Lottery Machine at work. I think the Clippers won the draft 3x out of my first 10 tries
As Ralph says...
It will probably take 50 wins again to make the playoffs as the 8th seed in the West this year with the way the race is shaping up. That means that we will have to go 43-14 the rest of the way to get to 50 wins. 43-14!!!
by MichaelCage on Dec 17, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
He is good
I never understood why he fell out of favor with the Bulls.
F-Elton!
Both Gordon's are good
I remember when they first drafted him Ben…the Bulls were still the Baby Bulls and pretty bad. Then he used to dribble the ball down the court at the end of the 4th qtr and lauch these crazy 3’s. It was ball hogish, but he makes some pretty incredible ones, as illustrated tonite.
With that said, I would have Eric Gordon for the next 3 years at a significantly lower price. Indiana will be tough too…..no easy wins in the NBA, especially when your bench does not score at all.
I love LAC.
Eric Gordon outplayed Ben tonight
overall at least…
Just forget about the bad 30 seconds he had …
:D
by cliptakular on Dec 17, 2008 10:50 PM PST up reply actions
You know that commercial
where “amazing happens”?
Here’s some suggestions instead:
LA Clippers,
“where finding every impossible way to lose” happens
LA Clippers,
“where fan mood swings” happens
LA Clippers,
“where dissapointment is just around the corner” happens
LA Clippers,
“where nothing is certain” happens
LA Clippers,
“where bad calls” happens
This team should represent adidas:
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE
—-
I maybe over the top right now (really REALLY disapointed as I’m sure you all could understand) but SERIOUSLY, have you ever seen a team that loses games like this, and as often as they do?
really frustrating, really REALLY frustrating
I’m sure the players feel the frustration as well… especially the rebounding black hole, Marcus Camby.
Well, off to Indy Clippers fans. All this crazy loses can’t be good for my heart though…
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