Chicago 115 - Clippers 109
I don't have a lot to say about this game. I suppose I should, but I don't. Obviously, it was a mistake for Eric Gordon to foul Ben Gordon shooting a three. Up four with 20 seconds left, that's the one thing you simply can't do. We'll call it a 'rookie' mistake, but (a) I've seen veterans make the same bonehead play and (b) a 19 year old can certainly do the 3+1 = 4 math and know he's not supposed to do that, rookie or not. Heat of the moment, competing hard, dumb foul - it happened to cost the Clippers the ball game.
It hurts a little less in light of the fact that the Clippers' OT win in Portland was even less likely than this loss. It's also encouraging that the team played well in the second half and in the fourth quarter. They played well enough to win down the stretch, even though they didn't. It's certainly much less painful than the loss in Dallas where they completely collapsed.
The OT was strange, to say the least. The officials kind of took over. The Clippers scored the first three points of the extra frame, but they were done at that point. They also committed 5 turnovers in 5 minutes, and 3 of those were on referee whistles - a travel and two offensive fouls. Watching all three plays again, they were all legitimate calls - but they're also the kinds of things that happen all the time.
And for the second time in three weeks, the Clippers had an officiating crew overturn a call at a crucial point in a close game. This time, as the Clippers held a one point lead with 2 minutes left in the OT, Al Thornton drove down the lane and was fouled, sending him to the line for two free throws. Or so we thought. Some time later, the crew decided it was an offensive foul, and awarded the ball to the Bulls, in a manner unlike any I've ever seen. In looking at the play-by-play, it appears the eventual call went against Zach Randolph, a fact that was never made clear during the telecast. Indeed in watching the replay you can see Randolph shove Nocioni, though I'm not sure why or what he hoped to gain. But what's really, really strange is how it happened. It's quite freqent with three of them on the floor that different officials have different calls. What happens is one of them takes over - maybe because he feels he had the better angle, or because he's the crew chief, or whatever. But two guys come up with conflicting calls, they look at each other, one takes control, one defers, they make the call, we move on. That's what appeared to happen in this case. If you watch the original play, you can see the referee on the baseline about to call an offensive foul. But he defers, it's clearly signaled that Thornton is going to the line, and the Clippers are in position to stretch the lead to three. The camera was mostly on Al getting ready to shoot free throws, so we don't what form the discussion took. Did all three officials huddle to discuss the call? (Normally, that would happen BEFORE a call had been officially indicated, but that's picking nits, I suppose.) But it was clearly THE momentum changer. The Bulls scored the final seven points of the game and won by six.
The Clippers looked tired in the OT - and who could blame them? In the big picture, that's probably the worst thing about this loss - 5 more minutes of wear on the Clippers' exhausted starters. All five of them played over 40 minutes, led by Al Thornton with 48 and Eric Gordon with 47. They also got predictable in the OT. Or maybe it was a combination of predictable and tired that did them in. Because, let's face it, they were predictable down the stretch also. It was Zach on the right block, every time down the floor. But Zach didn't have the energy to make something out of nothing, and the rest of team did a lot of standing. Baron wasn't even getting into position to shoot. He just looked exhausted.
Some final thoughts:
- How amazing is it that in such a storied career as Marcus Camby's that he would get his career high in rebounding as a Clipper at the age of 34? He pulled down an astounding 27 rebounds, and was a single point away from a 20-20 game. He also had 4 blocked shots. That's a pretty good night, especially for his fantasy owners.
- Andres Nocioni wins the prize for "NBA player his opponents most want to punch in the face by the end of the game." And it's not even close. Dude comes in shooting 38% on the year and makes 8 of 14 and 3 threes. And by the end of the game, Zach wanted to punch him in the face.
- What the hell happened to Luol Deng? He was awful. But to his credit, although he was 1 for 7 going into OT, he made consecutive jumpers to turn a 3 point deficit into a 1 point lead. The play where the Bulls took the lead was just one of those moments where you realize it's not in the cards for your team. Chicago mishandled the ball no fewer than 4 times on the possession, but the Clippers could never come up with it - and Deng sticks a jumper at the shot clock buzzer to give the Bulls a lead the never relinquish. Sometimes that's how it goes.
- Has Mike Taylor successfully dunked the ball this season? I mean in a real game, not just in summer league? Look I like the aggressiveness, but he's something like 0 for 6 on dunks this season (that's off the top of my head - but he tries it a lot, and I don't remember him finishing a single one). He's the anti-Kaman. With Kaman it's "Just dunk the damn ball!" With Taylor it's "Please don't try another dunk!"
- It's hard to discern MDsr's pattern with Hart and Taylor. It seems like he goes to Hart when Taylor pisses him off - like those consecutive turnovers against Houston. But then he just gets tired of Hart even though he doesn't do anything wrong per se, and goes back to Taylor. Or maybe he's playing hunches. But with Chicago being so dependent on the backcourt scoring, I would have thought he'd opt for the defense of Hart. Or maybe it was a quickness thing, since both Rose and Gordon are lightning.
- Seven bench points. It's catching up with the team, for sure.
- Eric Gordon played well, his mistake at the end of regulation notwithstanding. I will say that he looked a little unsure of himself towards the end. In the fourth quarter, he got into the lane, didn't even look to shoot, and almost got caught for three seconds. In the OT, with the Clippers down 4 and still with some hope, he forced a pass to Randolph which Larry Hughes stole.
- Baron Davis just is not a good shooter right now. 6 for 23 in this game dropped him down to 38% on the season. He has been below 50% in each of his last 12 games, and has been at 1/3 or fewer in 4 of those games. I guess the good news is that the team is playing well despite the fact that Baron can't make a shot - but when is he going to break out of the slump?
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Uh...Thornton to win the game!?
You forgot to mention the 2nd most egregious mistake of the game (EJ’s ridiculous foul being the 1st obviously) – Dunleavy calling the last play of regulation for…AL THORNTON!? Uh…WHY!? He should be the team’s FOURTH option in that situation, not the first.
Z-Bo was unstoppable in the 4th and had hit something like 4 straight shots. So here’s a novel idea…go to him. You don’t want to go into a big man with the game on the line? Fine, there’s this PG on the team who’s hit some big shots (like, you know, a few nights ago in Portland). Maybe give him the ball?
Giving Thornton an isolation on the wing with the game on the line was surreal. I thought we were back in 07-08 when it didn’t matter if we won or lost and we just wanted to see what the rook was made of. I half expected Maggette to be out there not playing defense.
I’m not sure when and how Dunleavy turned into such a complete idiot, but it sure has happened.
And another question…if Dunleavy supposedly has so many plays, how is it that the they constantly went to the same, predictable post play EVERY SINGLE TIME in OT?
Yeah, that was weird
On the first possession of OT, the Clippers went back to Zach and he converted. Milph wondered aloud where that was at the end of regulation, and apparently MDsr overheard them and gave them a look which they interpreted as “I wanted it to go to Zach too.” But watching the play, it sure didn’t look like it. It looked like iso Al on the wing. So, I have no explanation.
My guess is that there was supposed to be something much more involved going on than what we saw. One or more breakdowns turned into a tough Thornton fadeaway.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 18, 2008 12:19 AM PST up reply actions
Yea...
It didn’t look like a broken play given that Thornton clearly had the whole side of the floor to himself and had enough time to do his maddening face-up statue impression.
I like the idea
He made the shot tougher than it needed to be once he realized Deng had closed off the baseline. The shot almost hit. AT is capable of being a go to guy.
F-Elton!
Broken Play
In the AP game story (in the LAT), I believe Dunleavy said that the play was supposed to go to Zach, but AT saw some daylight and ran to the spot. All would have been fine if he had just hit the shot. Bummer.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 18, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Would've been a great win
Instead it’s a devastating loss. Only able to watch the 1st half, I left at the intermission thinking we were probably gonna get blown out. After that hot start we got off to, the game started to unravel, with the atmosphere, weird calls, and the energy & physicality the Bulls were playing with it reminded me a lot of playing in Utah. Their home/road splits so far this year shows how tough they’ve been at home, which would have made this win all the more impressive.
I’m impressed that they were able to fight back and play well enough to win down the stretch, but in a lot of ways, it made the loss all the more painful. We’ll see how they bounce back. If they can take the next two, it’ll be impressive and they’ll be over it.
The talk of BD not being an elite poing guard definitely rang true tonight. 6/23, w/ 2/10 from deep, and 2FTA is a pretty destructive line. If he shows up tonight, it wouldn’t have been close.
An issue highlighted tonight is that we don’t have much outside shooting. EJ is the only true shooter we have. BD can be at times, but his shot selection kills it. We all know the story w/ Al, him shooting is basically a wasted possession. If he somehow makes it, it only leads to him shooting more and disrupting the flow of our offense.
In short: We’re playing at a pretty high level, but this team needs a back up PG and another shooter in order to get to that next tier.
A Bit Harsh
but fair enough, after a loss and some poor shooting.
One thing to look at with BD however, is his effective penetration and some easy put-backs by Camby and others. BD didn’t finish very effectively at the rim except for a couple of times, but he was breaking down the defense, and that contributed to Camby’s PB rebound total and some of his points. And you can’t leave out BD’s assist total, some of which were superb and timely.
That being said, he plays a bit better and hits a couple more shots (that weren’t putbacks) and the Clips win. But let’s not forget the Derrick Rose factor either. Rose is a really good young player, extremely impressive. Just having a solid PG like BD to match up with him is a big step forward for the Clips, and in matchups like that it’s kind of a tossup and the other guys have to come through—no foul by Gordon, Thornton hitting a shot, etc., along with Kaman and Davis2 available. As CS mentions, the bench problem creates some significant difficulties, and it cost the Clips a win.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 18, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Clips look solid
They are playing so far superior to just a couple weeks ago.
Camby is terrific.
Randolph is amazing.
Gordon, despite a few rookie errors, is fantastic.
Sure Baron is in slump. Thornton is erratic. And Kaman should stay where he is…which is not playing.
But the Clips now have potential and are worth watching every game.
All i can say, it is better than not be competitve in the first 15 games
Gordon is still a very good player, except for the 2 plays
Baron should only take
10 shots per game unless he’s hot… he keeps shooting us out of games. I like how he is becoming more as a facilitator now.
Eric Gordon needs to take more shots.
Clipsnation question of the day
It was my question before I even saw cliptakular’s two comments above…
Why do we find Kaman’s 57% shooting so frustrating that he must be traded immediately for what will certainly be lesser players, and Baron Davis’ 38% shooting acceptable and rarely worthy of mention despite it actually hurting the team, especially in these 1pt/2pt/OT losses?
Is it the big vs small thing? Even there Kaman is great for his position while Davis is terribad for his.
Is it that Baron is willing to keep shooting enough to cross the magical 20 point line? Davis is averaging 7.5 more shots but only 4.5 more points. That’s very bad.
Is it the local hero thing? I guess that buys him some cred vs a michiganer who owns a trucking company and bow?
In trying to understand the psychology of hating one player that was helping the team and excusing another that is so clearly hurting.
I mean if Baron doesn’t miss like 2 layups in the first, its not a loss…
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
I agree
Baron does a lot of good things, but his shooting is hurting the team
F-Elton!
If he doesn't shoot, he can't play make.
Defenders need to think that Baron will jack it up or else they will play off him because they assume he will either drive or kick it out.
by Newton Pham on Dec 18, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
I don't mind him jacking them up
he just needs to make them.
F-Elton!
Somehow I don't mind...
…Baron jacking up those shots as much either. In some weird way in my mind, because he is a vet and because he makes such great assists I give him a pass – still frustrated when he misses way off – but I give him a pass in my mind.
I almost get more upset with Jason Hart shooting without other guys in rebounding position. I’m harder on him. I guess I just like Mike Taylor better. Mike has more in the entertainment factor, but I guess that can lose you games too.
Instead of focusing on Baron’s slump I think the real culprit is that our bench is weaker than other teams benches right now so in close games we’re gonna lose. If our bench could produce about ten more points collectively or get more stops or some combination of both, they would probably have a couple more "W"s.
Baron is a threat b/c he can score and pass
but his shooting percentage is poor but alot of that is also shot w/ less than 5 secs on the clock
There's an obvious answer...
Baron’s backups are Mike Taylor and Jason Hart. Kaman looks like he’ll be coming off the bench.
Having said that, it still doesn’t make sense. But people are just looking at 5 players, and ignoring the fact that the Clippers lack of depth is really starting to hurt them. So Camby and Randolph can start, and so Citizen Cliptakular wants two decent bench players for Kaman. But two decent bench players does not equal one starting center – and that’s what he is, whether he comes off the bench or not.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 18, 2008 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Clarification...
There’s an obvious answer to John R’s question…. the way the comments are embedded between, it doesn’t read very clearly. I was addressing John R’s Kaman versus Baron question.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 18, 2008 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Trading Kaman
It’s just a horrible, ridiculous idea as far as I’m concerned. So, with all due respect, I don’t take Cliptak’s response seriously, and there’s not an either/or with BDavis either.
Camby is awesome—he was ridiculous last night, and Zach Randolph didn’t seem to be playing even close to his best game as a Clip and he still had 30 points. But Camby’s contract expires at the end of next season and he’s an old dude. That doesn’t mean he can’t be productive for the next 5 years, and the whole 27 rebounds/personal best thing is very strange—but there’s just no way that he’s going to be a better player and have a 30 rebound night 3 or 4 years from now. But let’s not forget that he has been known to be injury-prone, and he was sick and injured all the way through training camp and the preseason and the first 5-10 games. And so, one could argue, he was more responsible for the Clippers slow start than anybody—he certainly didn’t start playing this way until fairly recently, after Randolph arrived.
The fact is that the Clips have two relatively fragile centers. Getting a great, very efficient pure power forward on the roster should diminish the value of Kaman to the team. There was a big drop off last night when Camby or Zach went to the bench. Perhaps with Kaman playing there’s no drop off and the Clips win easily. Injury insurance is a big factor. We know that from what happened with Brand last year, and we’re reminded of it by what happened to Brand last night—let’s see how Philly does for the next month, and what’s going with them on New Year’s Eve when Kaman, Camby, and Randolph are all healthy—knock on wood—and FElton is in his familiar street clothes.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 18, 2008 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Little slip
“getting a great, very efficient pure power forward on the roster should diminish the value of Kaman to the team.” Now why did I leave out the “should not diminish.” Hmmm. Maybe I didn’t really mean it. But it seems obvious. Kaman-Camby is a very high class problem.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 18, 2008 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly right...
Trading Kaman is a silly idea. His size, skill-set, and relatively favorable salary make him hugely valuable especially given Camby’s age. The Clips are deep in skilled Bigs… why is that a problem? The team needs Kaman back, and good shooter/defender off the bench. That COULD be Ricky Davis, but I’m not sure.
Gordon's night
When I was 19, I thought I could do anything, too. So I can understand why EG thought he would be able to fight thru and screen and block Ben Gordon’s 3 pt attempt from the top of the key. But he will learn that that just doesn’t happen in the NBA. Total rookie mistake.
He clearly had a lot on his mind.
His teammates, especially the other rookies, did their best to try to buck him up after his bad entry pass to Zach was picked off by Larry Hughes. You could tell that he knew he cost the Clippers the game tonight. But it happens. The team played well enough to win.
F-Elton!
I agree
To suggest, as some did in the game thread, that MDsr and the staff failed to tell people not to foul, or that they somehow had to tell the 19 yo specifically, is just silly. They told everyone not to foul; they didn’t even have to, everyone knows that already, even the teenagers, but they told them anyway; he got caught up and made a stupid play. It happens.
Look, ClipperMax, who is 12, the minute Gordon reached, yelled “OMG! Don’t foul!” He’s 12. He hasn’t played organized basketball in 4 years. He knows not to foul a three point shooter. This was a mistake folks. That’s all. Moving on.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 18, 2008 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Was the officiating overturn a mistake?
…sorry I’m having difficulty moving on when this has happened twice in three weeks. Do you also remember that weird replay incident? I sure do.
If they are going to overturn a call at such a crucial moment…at least look at the replay video footage.
by Newton Pham on Dec 18, 2008 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
It was weird
…you’re allowed to be pissed about that one. You just don’t see a call changed while both teams are lined up for the free throws. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 18, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Also, The U of I hate of Gordon via Chicago
As a Big Ten guy, I knew people at that game, apparently U of I fans via Chicago were still taunting Gordon when he got the ball (if you don’t know the whole Gordon vs Illinois thing check google), so Gordon wanted that win. Its sucks because now those pricks have more shit to gloat about him.
Gordon will get a standing O in Indianapolis and get his head right, really good timing to play them, that was a hard loss for him.
Clips will bounce back, and hopefully my first team the Bulls will trade fucking Noah so I can root for them as well again.
by Hollywood Hoosier on Dec 18, 2008 11:16 AM PST reply actions
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In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 18, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
The officiating this season has made me sick to my stomach....
Across all teams.
Categories of games
Painful loss. Makes some sense to a certain degree, and these things happen. But the thing is that it has already happened multiple times and how many more times can it happen, and how much more can we take. It’s the point where the Clips go into “how can we find a way to lose” mode. This was close and not so bad, but I thought the team was over the hump. More later.

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