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Warriors already regretting Magg's signing?

Hat tip to Ramona Shelburn for posting this on her blog.

Maggs article

Scroll down a bit to find the Mags blurb. Looks like the honeymoon is already over in Oakland. Although, I am pretty sure some of us (if not the majority) saw this coming. Not that Baron Davis has proven to be the answer here in Clipper land, but at least the team chemistry is finally coming together.

On a side note, did anyone see FElton's line against the Fakers last night?

1 for 7, 3 points, 5 rebounds, in 25 minutes. Ouch. I didn't see the game, but that just looks atrocious. Not to mention the Sixers record of 8-11. Glad you chose Philly FElton. I guess the grass isn't ALWAYS greener on the other side.

 

UPDATE: Saw that Brand is out with a hammy injury. That could explain some of the poor numbers last night against the Fakers. However, his scoring avg. (16.7points) and rebounding (10 per) are not what they used to be. Brand out

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nicely done...

Some saw it coming, but Garnett’s words are a bit tough, ouch baby ouch!

"Lets get one thing straight, the only reason you are conscious right now is because I don't feel like carrying you." - Jack Bauer

"Consequences, Schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich." - Daffy Duck

by Badd on Dec 4, 2008 10:37 AM PST reply actions  

No longer under the sweet anonymity of the LAC

A 20ppg scorer is questioned.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 4, 2008 10:39 AM PST reply actions  

It boils down to...

what have you done for me lately….and that pretty much amounts to nothing for over a year. Sorry, but I am not going to apologize for the way I feel about the guy.

by Clip Show on Dec 5, 2008 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

KG

FTW. Vicious but true.

by supac on Dec 4, 2008 10:45 AM PST reply actions  

This

Maggette’s selfish play hasn’t gone unnoticed by other players. According to sources, after the final buzzer against Boston, Celtics forward Kevin Garnett turned to Maggette and shouted, “Way to get your numbers.”

by supac on Dec 4, 2008 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

sounds familar

The old “Headless Horseman” analogy. We all saw that, right?

by cf on Dec 4, 2008 12:15 PM PST reply actions  

Ummmm last I checked...

The grass is slightly greener….their record is still better than ours.

by Newton Pham on Dec 4, 2008 12:27 PM PST reply actions  

Slightly...yes....

but at this point are they playoff bound?…uh no. And he sure as heck is not going to be an allstar this year. So that pretty much leaves being closer to his family as the only reason (for taking Philly’s offer) that is turning out to be valid at this moment. Granted, the season is still early, but still funny to see how it is all playing out so far.

by Clip Show on Dec 4, 2008 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Not seeing the point(s)...

So, Mannix lists the last five games and is telling us that Maggette sucks because he has 14 TOs 6 assists in those games? But he’s averaging 24 points per game on 16 shots per game in those same 5 games? 1.5 points per shot is pretty damn efficient, folks.

Look, I think the Warriors overpaid for Corey. I had no interest in the Clippers locking him up for that long at that coin. But he is who he is. And to single out his poor assist-to-TO ratio seems strange. BTW, on the season Kevin Durant’s assist-to-TO ratio is much worse than Corey’s, and Carmelo Anthony’s is only slightly better. Corey is never going to be great in that area – that’s just not who he is. And if this some sort of unpleasant surprise to the Dubs, give me a break. He’s not far away from his career numbers in either TOs or assists.

Corey is who he is. And no one gets to the line like the guy. He was 17 for 18 from the line in their last game.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2008 6:20 PM PST reply actions  

agreed

as a warrior fan he is giving us what we expected. he gets us to the freethrow line. and he drives to the basket.

the only thing he does i dont like is when he shoots the 3 ball.

by saintdee on Dec 4, 2008 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

hey man!!

Nice to see you here!!!

F**K REFS

by faetati on Dec 4, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I Feel Your Pain

Other than last year, Corey’s always been a slightly below average 3 pt. shooter. The problem is, he thinks he’s pretty good at it. Even when he makes one, you just know it’s gonna lead to a few more misses. When you guys blew by us at Staples, the only time I was comfortable was when I saw Corey launch a three.

by ghost_ride on Dec 5, 2008 12:45 AM PST up reply actions  

What do you mean?

I was lead to believe the strictures of Dunleavy’s offense were holding him back and that he would bust out if only he were put into a more free flowing offense.

How can we now so nonchalantly claim that Maggette is who he is? I feel like I have been lied to.

I mean I know he is who he is, I’m just saying.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 5, 2008 9:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Ah

So John R really liked Corey and thought that MDSr was a bad coach all along . . .

I feel like we’ve been lied to all along . . .

by Jax on Dec 5, 2008 9:23 AM PST up reply actions  

My comment doesn't say that at all

It doesn’t even imply it. Looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning…

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 5, 2008 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Sorry to hear you didn't sleep well. Let's go over your post.

Your comment indicates that you were led to believe (i.e., you believed based on what others told you) that Corey had talent and needed a more free flowing offense (i.e., that MDSr’s offense was too restrictive – that he didn’t know how to get the best out of his players).

Then you claim you’ve been lied to. That comment confirms that you believed what you were told.

But you’ve been telling all of us for years that MDSr is great, that Corey sucks and that Ross is much better and should be starting over Corey. Since according to your post you didn’t really believe that, you’ve been lying to us all along about your true feelings.

Apparently you don’t understand what you wrote. Hopefully this clears it up.

by Jax on Dec 5, 2008 9:29 AM PST up reply actions  

No need to take it out on me

First, I have never said any of those three things. Your reading comprehension is fail.

1) MDSr is adequate
2) Corey is one-dimensional and great in that one thing, but believes he is more and acts as if he is more
3) Ross is fine and given that Maggette was getting enough minutes it shouldn’t matter who starts

Everyone knows thats all I have ever said. To claim otherwise means that your honesty is also fail. Since its clear you obsess over my every comment and can’t help but reply, even if my comment isn’t in reply to you, you have no excuse to misrepresent me in this way. This fanpost isn’t going very well for you.

But I suspect I know why. YOU tried to lead us to believe that Dunleavy was holding him back when now we have evidence that it isn’t true. We have proof it isn’t true. This must be very jarring to Maggette apologists and apostles such as yourself. Did you see over at Clipperblog where he links that AT3 is reporting that even EB didn’t want to play with him anymore? That’s brutal.

Tangentially, we also have further evidence of my theory that coaches don’t matter since Corey’s numbers are largely unchanged. Well except the added freedom seems to have encouraged him to jack up even more ill-advised three’s at the expense of what he was good at – getting to the line. But almost completely unchanged vs MDSr’s system. Funny that.

But you don’t need to take this out on me. I didn’t say these things yesterday. Kevin Garnett did.

Hey did you see where Odom and AK47 are coming off the bench now too? MDSr as trend setter!

Take it easy, Champ. Why don’t you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 5, 2008 9:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I see you did see it

And your obsession expressed itself…

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 5, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually, the Art Thompson quote

merely says that EB doesn’t want to play for the Clippers. That’s it.

No one is obsessiong over you. I’m not a Maggette apologist. He is what he is, and that’s all I’ve ever said. MDSr’s mistake was failing to start him b/c the team only had one other consistent scorer at the time. That was my point.

Now you are equating Odom coming off the bench, on a team with three other consistent scorers starting, with the situation on the Clippers? LOL. Proves my point that you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

Your theory is incorrect. You can’t just tell a player’s value by numbers.

And KG may be correct. Again, Corey is what he is.

by Jax on Dec 5, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions  

You too are funny...

Here’s the money quote from the AT3 post…


My sources told me that fomer Clipper forward Elton Brand was so determined not to have a personal friendship ruined with Maggette (the two have been close since they attended Duke together), that Brand did not want to play another year with Maggette, having decided that seven years with the Clippers was enough.

“Brand did not want to play another year with Maggette.” It doesn’t specifically say why, and AT3’s sources may or may not be accurate, but that’s what it says.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Dec 7, 2008 6:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry Steve, but in my view, this is Thompson reaching

It could easily mean that he thought Maggette would be signing with the Clippers.

by Jax on Dec 7, 2008 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m surprised at how Elton Brand is struggling but I think Corey has played well for Golden State.

http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/

by NBR on Dec 4, 2008 9:13 PM PST reply actions  

Maggs isn't that overpaid

$10 mil a year for guy that relentlessly get’s to the line is not really overpaying. Was it dumb for the Warriors to throw him that Money when they have SJax, Buke, and 4 other SG/SF’s? Yes. Sadly, this “trade” of BDiddy for Maggs has not worked out well so far for either team. Clips are thin at SF/SG, and the W’s need Baron. Nonetheless, BDiddy’s salary is much higher, so we can only hope that BDiddy can lead our team to the promised land.

I love LAC.

by oasisman on Dec 4, 2008 10:39 PM PST reply actions  

Scorers get paid

Look at what Rashard Lewis makes. Corey’s not particularly overpaid by NBA standards. But if I’m the GM, I don’t make the signing.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2008 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

More info from

Kevin over at Clipperblog
I think CS is right on. After watching Mags for so long, we all kind of know what you get with Maggette. It may be possible that some of the Warriors faithful may have thought that they were getting a little more (like 3 point shooting, a good passer, or someone who plays defense). And like CS says, he is who he is. I wouldn’t call it buyers remorse, because the dude still is a 20ppg scorer. However, there may be a case of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Only time will tell.
Interesting little tid bit about Brand not wanting to play with Maggs anymore as well. Not sure that is entirely true. Is Maggette really the reason FElton didn’t want to come back with the Clips? Obviously I am speculating, but it might just be another piece to the whole Brand fiasco puzzle.

by Clip Show on Dec 5, 2008 8:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

No one was lied to. They just failed to see what was right in front of them.

Don’t forget, Corey wasn’t a star in college. He’s worked hard to become what he is. Criticize him all you want, but he is what he is, which ain’t all that bad in the scope of things.

by Jax on Dec 5, 2008 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Lightning Rod

Always fun to talk about Maggs. Maggettifesto time! I just like saying it, and remembering the bad old good old days.

Warriors overpaid for Maggette. Not by a whole lot, but just enough that it will complicate things for them over time.

I think that as Clipper fans we all knew Maggs’ drawbacks. The question, back in the day, wasn’t whether Maggs was a complete player, but whether he or QRoss should be the starter. It shows a real weakness in Maggs, and the odd way in which his game is actually very limited, that he wasn’t very good coming off the bench. It didn’t help that the Clips were routinely behind when he came in the game, but that’s a different matter.

For me, I would always say that Maggs is a very solid starter and scorer, but you have to surround him with other good players. Kaman, Brand, Mobley and Cassell were a nice mix. He played well alongside Bobby Simmons. It helps when the other wing does all of the little things and has a high BBall IQ, because you’re not going to get that from Maggs.

So it’s very foolish for GSW to be disappointed or surprised. He’s doing exactly what it was obvious that he was going to do. The Warriors need inspired play from Biedrins and it seems like they should be getting more out of Turiaf, and they need Ellis back, although I don’t really know what’s going on with them. But Maggs was never going to be a saviour.

One reason we know this, after watching Maggs so closely over the years, is that he didn’t step up last year, when Brand was out and he was the obvious primary option. There was a real opportunity for Maggs to establish himself as a borderline all-star player last year, he was going to get all the minutes, touches, and shots he could want. And yet he still somehow got off to a very slow start, which was downplayed somewhat because Kaman was so outstanding. Maggs eventually began to put up a long string of solid play and very good numbers, but a lot of it was in semi-tank, semi-respectable mode. And it was just enough to get him a nice deal when the GSW capspace opened up. He’s a good guy and a hard worker and I’m happy that he got paid, but he has limited value on a basketball team.

One interesting way to look at it is through how elite players can make themselves much better at some facet of the game during the offseason. Maggs started as an athlete, and after he joined the Clippers he worked very hard and turned himself into an amazingly efficient scorer, a guy who can score 20 points on 5 shots on any given night.

But once he reached that point, he never added anything else to his game. I suppose he has been trying to turn himself into a better 3 point shooter, but he’s only gotten so far with that. There was a real opportunity for him to turn himself into an outstanding rebounder, since he has the size and strength to do it, and a big part of it is a question of will. With Brand out, it would have served the team, and Maggs would have done well to establish himself as a big, strong SF who can play some PF as well. The basic challenge: can you do this better than Tim Thomas? Perhaps the fact that Kaman was rebounding so well took away some incentive. At any rate, it appears that this idea of a specific categorical improvement never crossed Maggs’ mind. It’s not what he does or who he is. He put his game together, worked hard to do it and still works hard, and that’s it.

It’s too bad. It’s too bad for Maggs, and for GSW, but it is what it is. Have to say at this point that I don’t miss him at all. Really enjoyed his play for a long time and enjoyed watching him grow and get better, but was disappointed when he plateaued.

by citizen zhiv on Dec 5, 2008 1:44 PM PST reply actions  

I think

That many don’t appreciate some of Maggette’s physical limitations. He has among other things poor lateral quickness. That limits his defensive abilities, particularly against guards, and he is too short to guard tall SFs and particularly PFs.

For this reason, and also because of issues wiht his bball IQ, I never thought he was an elite player. Neither does GSW as they are not paying him like an elite player.

I never thought he’d step up to elite status last year simply because he cannot. Neither did a number of others. You shouldn’t be disappointed in him because that is just not who he is. He’s a complimentary player. He’s not well suited for coming off the bench, and again, on that team it made no sense. You don’t bury one of your only two steady offensive players. Otherwise you are constantly trying to catch up, which is exactly what happened.

I doubt Don Nelson is disappointed in Corey. It’s not too bad. He’s doing what he’s doing, and he’s doing it very well and getting highly compensated for it.

by Jax on Dec 5, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Not "too bad"

LOL

If only he was “good”. What are those phycial limitations? I mean we look at the guy and, physically, we see unlimited potential.

The question remains unanswered. Why is he doing objectively worse in Nellie’s system in which Jax swore up and down that he would thrive? I mean Nellie is a player’s coach. So I have been told. Jax. What good is your word about anything at this point when no less an authority about competition than Kevin Garnett is saying that Your Boy is selfisih?

The answer, obviously, is Jax has no idea what he’s talking about. This is why he is against stats and other things that are, you know, objective proof.

It is what it is I guess.

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if Maggette had his best year statistically under MDSr?

But yeah I guess Maggs has physical limitations, assuming you are an apologist. Otherwise he is the perfect size for a 2/3 and much stronger than most.

His only limitations are his brain and his heart.

For the record teh mid-level is about 6M to start which indicates an average player. Since Maggette is being paid about twice that, I think its fair to say that GSW is paying him as an elite player.

But again, it is what it is.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 6, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

John R apparently you don't understand things very well

And you want to do nothing but argue with me in front of Clipper Nation. Take it outside.

However, I’ll briefly take the points.

I never said anything about how Maggette would do in Nellie’s system. Prove me wrong. I merely thought he was a good player on the Clippers, relatively speaking. You on the other hand had an almost visceral hatred of the guy. Who knows why (other than your therapist). He’s not my boy. Why are you so obsessed with these kinds of issues?

And I’m not against stats. However, I don’t think that you can evaluate basketball solely by stats lie baseball because it’s a differnet type of sport. People who think otherwise (John R, I guess) are typically people who don’t play the game. I’ll bet John R’s never played organized basketball. Ever. Because you don’t know very much about the game.

Case in point – your favorite coach is currently 3-16 (err – 4 – 16). It must be difficult to accept the fact that I’ve been right about him all along, and you’ve been so wrong. Given your personality, I can’t think of anything worse.

Yes Corey has physical limitations. Most who know basketball know that. He does not have lateral quickness, essentiall to good wing defense. I guess John R doesn’t know what that means. He also has a relatively low basketball IQ. we all know that.

Now you want to argue over whether Corey is paid as an elite player. Who really cares? Only you, my man.

Enjoy.

by Jax on Dec 6, 2008 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

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