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Orlando 95 - Clippers 88

For long stretches of this game, the Clippers were not just better, but much, much better than the team with the fourth best record in the NBA.  Unfortunately, there were two shorter stretches where they were atrociously bad, and that was enough to get them the L.

From the time Baron Davis made his first three point field goal of the ball game with 6:30 left in the first quarter, until he made his last three in the final seconds of the third quarter, the Clippers outscored the Magic 73-52.  But they spotted Orlando a 14-2 lead to begin the game with an incredibly flat start, and then gave up a 22-2 run to begin the fourth.  Surviving one such drought in a game is pretty hard - overcoming two of them is pretty much impossible.

This is a throwback to the first weeks of the season, where each and every game contained at least one monumental lapse.  They usually occurred in the fourth quarter too, as a matter of fact.  D.L. Moody said "Character is what you are in the dark."  Well, an NBA team is what it does in the fourth quarter.  And the Clippers have been bad - really, really bad - in fourth quarters this season.  And when the Clippers have been melting down in the fourth, it's generally been Baron Davis at the core.  Tonight he was 10 for 23 (3 for 5 on threes) through three periods - and 1 for 6 missing 3 triples in the fourth. 

In his press conference after the game, MDsr was making thinly veiled references to the officiating.  "I told my guys to take it at Howard - we did that - but we still didn't make it to the line - I guess Orlando played good defense.... " That sort of thing.  And at first blush, the Magic's 30 to 13 FT advantage indeed looks suspicious.  But upon closer inspection, you'll see that Dwight Howard shot 18 of Orlando's 30 freebies - leaving only 12 for the rest of the team.  Could the Clippers have gotten a few more trips?  Sure.  But it seemed to me the officials were letting a lot of stuff go on both ends.  The Clippers were forced to foul Howard at times (and were pretty happy to, considering he made only half of his attempts).  And certainly rookie DeAndre Jordan got no benefit of the doubt from officials as he was called for four fouls in four minutes.  Still, overall, the zebras just weren't much in the mood to blow the whistle tonight, for whatever reason.  They really could have helped the team in the fourth with just a couple of calls during that horrendous start.  But it didn't happen.  In the final analysis, six different Clippers got one pair of free throws each.  No one was sent to the line twice the entire game.  (Baron took a third one for a technical foul.) 

Credit the Clippers with working hard on the boards, which is what got them back in the game and kept them there.  The outrebounded the Magic 51-43, despite Dwight Howard's 22 boards. (That's right, Howard had 22, and the rest of his team had 21.  No wonder he's leading the league - there's not competition.)  The Clippers grabbed 16 offensive rebounds to the Magic's 4.  Of course, there were many more misses on the Clippers end, with the Clippers attempting 21 more field goals than the Magic, but only making 4 more.  It's hard to believe that the Clippers were in this game, shooting 38.5% - and it's all due to the rebounding.

We said going in that three point shooting was going to be a key, and it was.  When Orlando jumped out to their lead, they made their first two three pointers.  They then missed their next 11 in the first half, as the Clippers turned a 15 point deficit into a 6 point half time lead.  But after that 2 for 13 first half, the Magic made up for it with an 8 for 13 second half.  After the Clippers had cut the lead back down to 2 in the final three minutes, they made two straight (sandwiched around a Thornton free throw) to stretch the lead back out to 7.  The second of those threes was Hedo Turkoglu from fully three steps behind the arc with 2 minutes left in the game and 13 seconds on the shot clock.  You know SVG was screaming 'NOOO.... nice shot' as he put that one up.  Just a horrible shot - but sometimes bad shots go in.

[By the way, I'm really bad at my new game.  I picked McCants for the Superstar for one game Saturday and he scored 2 points.  Tonight I picked J.J. Redick, and he never got out of his warm ups.  Poor J.J.  He really wanted out of Orlando, they decided to keep him and implied he was going to get his chance this year - and now he's buried behind a rookie from Western Kentucky.  He's got to be thinking "I'm a Blue Devil - what the hell am I doing playing behind a Hilltopper?"  And that's with Pietrus hurt - he goes to fourth string when Pietrus is back.  He'll be buried behind a frog and a Hilltopper.]

Maybe some late game collapses will turn up the heat on MDsr's seat.  But don't count on it.  He makes an obligatory appearance on Chris Sheridan's list of coaches in trouble at ESPN.com, but even Sheridan doesn't think it's going to happen - he set the odds at MDsr getting fired this season at 32-1.

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Dreaded Vote of Confidence?

Ramona Shelburne just updated her blog and to some extent Roeser gave Dun a “vote of confidence” (kinda). I’m hoping it’s the dreaded vote of confidence that management tends to give before the ax comes down.

They HAVE to fire Dun if this keeps up. It’s just unspeakable to let this team continue this way.

by madglove on Dec 9, 2008 12:05 AM PST reply actions  

Blame the refs

That’s all Dunleavy does.

But, Dunleavy has always been terrible in the 4th. Ask Portland. well ask anyone. It’s not new to this year. Dunleavy needs a 25pt+ lead in the 4th or the game is up for grabs.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 1:15 AM PST reply actions  

Yeah...

Hella annoying…. plus what the f**K is “Go go go”?

What? the players won’t run if he doesn’t say that?

by cliptakular on Dec 9, 2008 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Here is the killer

If the Clippers can manage to score a mere 20 points in the 4th quarter, instead of a dreadful 13, this game goes to OT.

Ridiculous. I like Zach Randolph’s offense, but I can now see how he is able to score 21 points every night and have it mean nothing.

The Clippers are playing well, in spots. Perhaps Kaman coming back helps.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Dec 9, 2008 6:17 AM PST reply actions  

I was there...

and on both ends of the floor it appeared that it was very physical and the refs were letting a TON of hand checking and reaching go uncalled. The point of contention I have, however, is that the refs did seem to swallow their whistles there at the beginning of the fourth quarter when Orlando made their run. Like MDsr said, they decided to take it Howard, and I can remember at least 3 drives into the basket by Clips that ended with a miss and a Clipper being floored by Howard, with no foul called. Orlando did not get these same calls on their end because Orlando is primarily a jump shooting team, and therefore doesn’t really take it to the hole very often or attempt to draw fouls in that way. We all knew they were going to jack up their 3 pointers, and eventually they were going to fall. But the equalizer is getting to the line on the other end (which in turn allows you to set up your D on the other end), and that just didn’t happen.
I blame MDsr a little too for having Mardy Collins out there WAY TOO MUCH in this game (especially during that fourth quarter run), but then again, who else is he going to put out there? I think the lack of depth of the bench really killed them in the fourth when they needed to rest Baron and Thorton.

by Clip Show on Dec 9, 2008 8:50 AM PST reply actions  

Collins

Mardy Collins is like QRoss in that they are both incredibly limited offensive players.

The difference is that Ross knows it – Collins seems to think he’s pretty good. Oh, and Ross is a great defensive player, which I have not seen from Collins yet.

Basically, Collins, so far, seems like all of the bad of QRoss, with none of the good.

I agree that the way they were calling the game impacted it. But I don’t think they were inconsistent. No one went to the line on either team other than Howard and you can’t argue with him going there.

Speaking of which, Zach’s going to get a fine at least. He may get a one game suspension.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Dec 9, 2008 9:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Zach...

was being mauled out there on every possesion, and I really can’t blame him. It’s not like Battie or Lewis or Cook are great defenders or big bodies. They essentially were pushing him around the court all night long, and it didn’t matter if he had the ball or not. And when Zach did get the ball take it to the basket, it was almost as if the refs looked the other way. You make it, great. You miss it, too bad.
I don’t know if I would categorize the refs as inconsistent though, more like complacent. I just don’t see how taking the ball aggressively to the basket, drawing contact, and getting floored is NOT a foul. Just because you let the physical stuff go in the first half does not mean you change the outcome of the game by not calling fouls in the fourth. I can understand if Howard was getting blocks on all of those drives, but I don’t recall him getting a piece of the ball once.
Why is that all the “superstars” get the benefit of the calls against the Clips, but our own superstar gets NO respect from the refs?

by Clip Show on Dec 9, 2008 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

More DeAndre!

he still had 2 fouls to use!

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Dec 9, 2008 9:09 AM PST reply actions  

Magic has a bloated record though

they played a bunch of sub-par less talented teams.

by cliptakular on Dec 9, 2008 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

Yeah, playing teams like the clippers

We cannot get to the FT line at all and when we get there we can’t shoot either

by Qlippers on Dec 9, 2008 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

well this isn;t good news...

kaman will be out for another few weeks and so will rdavis. All we seem to get are excuses from this team.

yay, we went to the playoffs.
noo, we missed the playoffs and had a slow start because we couldn’t get practice in russia.
Nooo, eb is hurt so we have to lose
and now it’s just another excuse. The thing is, this time it wont work. We all see that the talent is there to win games despite injuries.

sometimes I think dunleavy forgets that the clippers have fans. I don’t mind him staying on as GM, but he really needs to find a new coach with a different philosophy.

here’s the link on kaman and rdavis.

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_11173355

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 10:33 AM PST reply actions  

Same story as all season

Gordon and Taylor are massively overrated around here. Davis2’s return will help push Gordon back to a backup role where he belongs. And hopefully allow them to bench Collins forever.

Kaman returning should assure that I never have to see Jordan play again. Everyone who previously offered criticism that Jordan wasn’t playing owes everyone else pushups.

But Davis1’s play is still off. Its the same old story. The Clippers frontcourt is getting them into/keeping them in games, the backcourt and bench is letting them down.

I still fail to see how a coaching change will improve Taylor or Gordon. Or change the fact that Baron Davis abused his body this offseason to make a few bucks. His TS% is still the lowest of his career, tied with his rookie season. Both Gordon and Davis are shooting sub-40%, and both were guilty of that exactly again last night. They get open shots. Sometimes they just airball them.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 11:19 AM PST reply actions  

Dunleavy picked them

Not that I agree with everything you say, but Dunleavy drafted/signed them. So even if you don’t think a better coach would make a difference, Dunleavy should be fired for his GM moves.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Well...

Did the draft happen before or after the GM change? I have a delta there of over 3 months.

So you got your wish! The GM of the last draft was dismissed.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh

Funny how that works with you. If a move has panned out in his tenure then it was EB1. If you don’t like the move MDSr did it.

It must be hard to keep all that straight.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Please tell us exactly what it would take for you to fire MDSr

What are the circumstances under which you would say “enough”

We’ve asked this before, but you’ve never, ever told us. Let’s go on record, shall we?

On the GM issue, it is now generally known that MDSr has been the de facto GM for years. Do you dispute that?

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

What would it take for me to say MDSr should be out as GM?

If his contract is up and the team has not improved they should not sign him again, for either position.

What does it mean to be the de facto anything? Did he win the GM of the Year award? Coincidently, if he did, you would suggesting we fire one of the few people to have won a coach of the year AND GM of the year award from the Clippers.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Out completely - coach and GM

John R – let’s try being honest. MDSr had control over personnel decisions. Yes Baylor won the award, but we now know he was just a figurehead. This is his team and has been for years.

As I understand it, you would not fire MDSr under any circumstances for the balance of his current contract. Is that a correct statement of your position?

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Any?

I mean if he burns down the practice facility because he fell asleep smoking a cigar, sure fire him.

But as typical you want to stretch anything to its illogical conclusion so that you will have a strawman to attack.

I’ll put a fine point on it for you though. There are 3 or less years left on his deal if my understanding is correct. If you bring in a new coach it will take 1-2 years for his system to take hold, meanwhile all along the way important player’s contracts will be running out and Thornton will need to be extended or not.

My belief is that given that he will have to pay MDSr or fight to the death, DTS will bring in the cheapest people he can find to fill both jobs and it will take much longer to reboot the team than 3 years. At least holding steady the Clippers have a CHANCE to be competitive in that time given that they were the most successful ever during his tenure as coach and, you allege, de facto GM.

So my question to you is, why do you want to see the Clippers go through a 2-3-4 year complete franchise rebuilding process that may or may not ever bear fruit? Why do you hate the Clippers that much? Or is it really that you just hate MDSr so much that you just don’t care what happens to the Clippers. Yes, yes I think thats it.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Why you would think

that MDSr, with his track record, can actually

Again, one trip to the playoffs in six years is not successful – it is only successful when the bar is the Clippers. If that’s your baseline for success, I feel sorry for you. Come on, you’re MDSr’s little brother.

I don’t hate the Clippers, I love the Clippers. I hate incompetency. I hate people who defend the indefensible. I hate people who are so afraid of change that they will accept mediocrity, even a 4-15 record. I hate bad records. I hate standing pat watching a team that has a horrible record, no defense, no leadership and that has no prospect for winning despite a veteran, talented roster.

I would, however, wonder why you would continue to support a coach who continues to drive the franchise right into the ground.

You must hate the Clippers and have some personal stake in MDSr staying around. Perhaps you’re a Benedict Arnold.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

At bottom, I hate supporting a team that is being run incompetently

My coaches used to tell me that a poor carpenter always blames his tools. You are the epitome of that kind of thinking. You always blame the players and never fault the coach, who is also the GM In this case, for anything. You then mischaracterize and cherry pick stats to support your points that really don’t show anythying.

At bottom, I just think that you’re afraid of change. You will continue to support MDSr merely because he’s already here. You don’t understand the value a good coach and GM can bring to the table – you’ve said so yourself many times. You’re like a scared little kid.

In order to grow, you’ve got to take chances in life. Here we grumble every day about how bad this team is, but for the most part no one ever just says ENOUGH.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Dunleay basically drafted Kaman

That was his condition to come to the Clippers. Like Jax said, he’s been GM for years.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

What's wrong with drafting Kaman?

Do you see anyone else from 6-15 that is better? Jarvis Hayes? Marcus Banks? Ridnour? Hinrich?

by Newton Pham on Dec 9, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

a coaching change probably wont improve the players

but it sure would improve morale among us fans.

we’re probably going to be 4-19 soon, someone’s head has to roll.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess the question is...why?

If one is working from the position that it won’t actually have an on-court affect, why do something?

It might just as easily have the opposite of intended on-court affect.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

a similar question would be why do people pray to god?

it’s obviously not going to have an effect on anything either, but it makes people feel better. IMO…

That’s not a knock on religion or anything, I’ve just come to the realization that it takes a tremendous act of faith to believe the clippers are ever going to win anything. But that’s why we’re fans. We see the potential of this team. Blaming everything on injuries, or baron’s off season weight gain, or the snuffleupagus wont change our record. At the end of the day, someone has to be accountable, so why not mdsr? Is his contract the only thing keeping him here?

Let me just say I’m not a dunleavy hater, as a matter of fact I was highly critical of the Randolph trade and having so much salary committed to 2 positions, but I think turned out to be a good move. So I’m not afraid to say that I might be wrong about dunleavy too. But I don’t think that a new coach would have “the opposite of intended on-court affect.” because we don’t have much lower to go, do we?

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Lower?

Oh, there’s always lower. You could fire the coach/GM, have Roeser take over and start a fire sale.

There’s always lower.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would the results of that be worse than what we have now?

At least then a 4 – 15 record would make some sense. Here you have nothing. I saw MDSr after the game last night. He had no explanation whatsoever for the game, the record, or anything else. He looked completely lost. It was such a pathetic display I felt sorry for him.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it depends on if you lack vision or not

Which, it appears, you do.

If the team returned to its thrifty ways, and what evidence do we have that it wouldn’t, it might be years before the team can compete again. This is one year. Firing a GM can be a disaster for years to come.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Ooh - nice verbal / email dart John R

Now I lack vision. Is this team really competing in your mind?

MDSr should be graded only on this one year? Shall we examine this team’s record during MDSr’s entire tenure?

If anyone has vision around here, it’s me. I’ve been saying that the team should have brought in a new GM for years and that this new GM should go out and hire a competent, up and coming coach. I’ve said for years that MDSr is not a good x’s and o’s coach. I didn’t think BD would be a good fit. Etc., etc.

What is John R the visionary been saying? MDSr is great, the players suck, no need to hold him to account.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

good points john

Maybe I too, lack vision not only because I’m legally blind, but also because I can’t see what motivation sterling has not to return to thrifty ways… He paid a lot of money and not he’s having results. What motivation does he have to not blow it all up? Heck, half the fans at the games root for the other team anyway. And when the lakers play, it’s like 65/35 in favor of the lackers.

Again, I don’t think dunleavy should be fired, but I think he should start acting like a GM and find a new coach. I think he’s been a good GM despite losing EB… I mean Camby for the rights to swap 2nd round picks… great move! Baron who was supposed to make 17 million is playing for us for 11… again great move! Zbo, although I was skeptical, seems to be a good move and probably saved cat (although without knowing), but still.

If he did blow it all up, he could trade baron to Miami for marion and his expiring contract. HE could easily trade kaman for expiring contracts… I’m sure we could come up with a package to pick up marbury and his expiring contract… in fact I think the only large contract the clips are stuck with is zbo’s. I dont want that to happen. In fact, I think we have a good team, but management should have said, “hey fan base, we’re gonna suck this next year while we get all our pieces in place, but next year is the year… now I know we say that every season, but it’s really gonna happen next year, wink wink” and I wouldn’t have gotten my hopes up. The Knicks did it, right?

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

The problem

is that DTS trusted MDSr, who burned him. Now he’s supposed to trust MDSr as GM to get him to pay millions of dollars for another coach when MDSr has been telling him that he knows what he’s doing, which is why DTS gave him the extension in the first place?

How is MDSr going to sell trading BD to DTS? He just brought the guy in as our savior.

Ain’t gonna happen. They might as well start over because they aren’t going anywhere with this guy. But DTS has got to get a new GM.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

oh about trading baron

I probably should have been more clear. I was simply saying the clippers have options if they do decide to blow it all up (an idea I don’t support yet)… And again, I think except for the korolev pick, MDsr has been a pretty good GM… I think good GM’s are harder to find than good coaches, so I was hoping dunleavy would see the light himself, but that would never ever happen. lol

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

DTS trusted MDSr

Name another coach or GM that got DTS to open up his pocket book?

by Newton Pham on Dec 9, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Staples center told him spend more.

And they’re at the bottom of team salaries this year.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

umm dude, how much do you know about the salary cap?

to my knowledge, they couldn’t spend more. It’s not possible because they’re up against the cap. By renouncing rights to sign baron and other free agents, they had to be under the 58M cap. they can only spend up to that limit for this year. Once they get over the cap, they have the MLE they can use. They could have also gone over by resigning their own free agents, but they didn’t sign anyone from last year except paul davis.

Basically they’re down near the bottom because every other team is over the cap and the clippers cant get over this season. But they’re nowhere near the grizz

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 7:06 PM PST up reply actions  

This is a true statement...

Clippers are as high as they can be, given what happened. They would be higher had Brand not opted out.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Dec 10, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree - MDSr did that, and it was great

But perhaps that’s the true extent of his usefulness.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I can partially agree with that...

Maybe that’s his extent and now it is time for someone who can take us one step further.

Thanks MDsr, we thank you, but it is time for a new coach.

by Newton Pham on Dec 9, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

there really should be an edit button...

i meant *he’s not", not “not he’s”. lol. i feel dumb now.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

i know right!

fail. haha. But seriously, I can think of better coaches… avery johnson, that jordan guy from Washington… etc. but I cant think of a better GM, and you don’t have a name either. lol.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Good GM?

What has he done well as GM? The team sucks.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

a GM's job is to get the pieces

a coaches job is to make them fit… dunleavy got the pieces, but hasn’t made them fit. he’s a pretty good GM if you ask me (with the exception of the Korolev pick), but this is certainly a subject for debate.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it's a bit more than that

The GM needs to determine whether the pieces will fit well together and whether the coach is competent and a good fit for the team as assembled.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Pieces of what?

Only 3 teams have a lower salary. You can’t seriously compete like that.

So what do the Clippers have? BD, Randolph and Camby? Kaman is always injured and is off and on.
Thorton is 26 and a little above average player, Gordon who’s 19.

They guy let EB get away and you’re calling him a good GM

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I dont think you can blame the whole EB thing on dunleavy

and that’s old news anyway. IMO he made some good moves after… getting camby for the rights to swap 2nd round picks, signing baron for 11 when he was going to make 17 mil and signing free agents we thought would be good before injuries (jwill and rdavis). Heck, I’m even going to argue that mobley might be seriously done, so Thomas for Randolph seems like a good trade to me, especially given how he’s played.

Also, are you saying that it wasn’t a good move to pick Thornton and gordon? Who would you have picked in the 2007 draft??? I’m sure Landry would have been up on your board, but I cant say with absolute certainty that it should have been someone else. My point is if we had a different GM, I doubt we would’ve had a good pick… in fact it probably would’ve been Jcritt based on draft boards and our need at the time and Thornton is certainly better than Jcritt.

lastly, salary commitment for this season doesn’t mean much because they’re up against the cap. see my post where I just replied to you above about the clippers spending this year

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 7:21 PM PST up reply actions  

No matter what happened Brand didn’t sign, GM’s fault.

BD signed here because he wanted to make movies and seems to care more about that than the Clippers. He’s also useless in Dunleavy’s system and it was Brand that got him here.

Not saying Thorton is bad, but he’s not gonna be one of the main guys to lead you to the finals. He’s not a bad pick for that position in the draft, but they could have got Stuckey.

More importantly, they could trade their 1st round picks for someone decent to have a good team now. Most players leave the Clippers as soon as they can anyway. Gordon is gonna leave the Clippers as soon as he can.

You can break cap and pay the tax. Dunleavy has had 6 years here, if their salary cap situation is so screwed up, its his fault.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

um no dude. I'm pretty sure the clippers have spent all the money they were allowed to.

I think you’re getting the salary cap and the salary threshold confused. The teams can go over the cap but only in 3 ways.First, they can sign their own players again (the clippers didn’t). Second, a team can use the MLE (but they have to be over the cap already). There is also a 3rd way and that’s through a trade, but the salaries have to be somewhat close.

Once a team is over the cap, the next number they have to watch out for is the salary threshold. EVERY team over the threshold pays the tax.

In plain dollar amounts, the cap is about 58 million whereas the threshold is somewhere around 72 million.

The clippers were under the cap once maggette left and brand opted out. They then renounced the rights to Livingston and other cap holds to make room to fill out the roster because they couldn’t go over the cap.

I’m about 99% sure that a team cant just “break cap and pay the tax”. SO PLEASE STOP MAKING THAT RIDICULOUS STATEMENT that the clippers are the 3rd cheapest team in the league and that’s somehow by choice.

BTW, I challenge your contention that stucky would have lead us to the finals.

I’d appreciate some citizens more knowledgeable than myself to clarify or correct my cap statements if incorrect.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 9, 2008 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Cap statement is correct...

however, now he is going to come at you with “well who cares it’s Dunleavy’s fault that we are at the max and can’t win.” Which is semi right. However, I’d rather see someone trying to win (MDsr) rather than some GM/Coach who don’t care and are riding it out.

by Newton Pham on Dec 10, 2008 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

6 years.

It’s Dunleavy’s fault if he can’t keep his players and that they’re are in the position they’re in. If it’s his frist year that’s one thing, but he had a playoff team and turn it into _.

Lakers getting Pau. Celtics got their players. A good GM gets things done.

Bottom line is results and if the Clippers have the 14th worst start in league history.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 10, 2008 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

which players should he have kept in past 6 years?

EB? is that the only one? EB left on his own after being manhandled by his agent. let it go already. Right now, the clippers only have one unmovable contract, Zbo.

I’m soooo glad you don’t let things like “facts” stop you from making your point.

If it’s trades you want like the lakers and celtics made, the clippers can make trades tomorrow. But they’re not going to get any league help like the lakers did, nor help from other GM’s like the celtics did. In fact, they just made a lopsided trade in the form of Thomas for Randolph (talent wise).

again, I’m not saying he’s a good coach, he’s a bad coach, but he is a good GM.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 10, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Could have kept Maggette or signed and traded him. Could have traded him with Livingston for AI. Could have traded draft picks for younger good players who we could have re-signed. And don’t go blaming EB on his agent. Dunleavy didn’t get it done. In 6 years you should be able to put your team in a position to compete.
He’s done the opposite and everyone’s praising him.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 10, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

nobody could have forseen livingston getting injured like that.

Livingston was supposed to be our point guard of the future. a 6’9" point guard that can defend and has great court vision like that… it’s unmatched… trading for ai wouldn’t be the answer. we needed…

by cantthinkofagoodname on Dec 10, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't let FD get you all riled up

…there’s really no point. Livingston would have been a great player. Now that looks like a great trade, but hindsight is 20/20. If he had traded for AI and Livingston started to tear it up (probably wouldnt have been injured) FD would have complained about that too. There’s always something to complain about.

by Newton Pham on Dec 10, 2008 1:10 PM PST up reply actions  

That's ridiculous

Trading first round picks is one of the most damaging things you can do in terms of Salary structure. Draft picks are good, young talent that you can play for 4 years at an inexpensive cost. If you go ahead and buy everyone on the team, that is very expensive.

I don’t think any owner should be obligated to go over the Cap. The luxury tax is a 100% tax, and it is designed so there is equity in the league. Most teams that go over the Cap don’t win the championship anyway. Do some research before you make outrageous claims.
Who will you blame once MDSr is out? DTS? Just enjoy the game.

I love LAC.

by oasisman on Dec 10, 2008 12:06 AM PST up reply actions  

No, I don't

I do not know who would be a potential candidate for GM. I’m not that knowledgeable about the inner workings of the NBA.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I don't either.

But Dunleavy has had 6 years here. Last place in the west last year and now this year. And look at his last GM job with the Bucks.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 10, 2008 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

This is not "one year"

This is simply the worst year for MDsr and the Clips since he’s been here. We’ve been a disaster most of the seasons he’s been here.

Oh me, oh my!!!! The Red Baron has come home!!

by Clipper T on Dec 11, 2008 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, what can be worse?

14th worst start in NBA history!!! What difference does it make if it’s The worst or 14th? They’re out of the playoffs and the tickets have no value. Games are no fun because they always lose and have nothing to play for.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point - makes me wonder just what the "opposite of the intended effect" would be . . .

A 4-15 record?

This is the only team in the league where the coach is not held accountable.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Uh...

I don’t know how anyone can say Rick Davis deserves to start over Eric Gordon and not expect to get laughed at.

by madglove on Dec 9, 2008 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Because

When Davis2 recovers from his injury he will be superior in every way to Gordon?

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Not so much

Davis(2) will be welcomed back if he can show his back class. It’ll be nice to have another option, though EJ in slump mode is as good as Davis(2) playing above average. The team needs defense right now, and significantly more time for Davis(2) takes away the teams best on-ball defender. Not to mention, EJ is just as good a shot as Davis(2), and shows greater strength taking it to the whole and involving other teamates. Give him a chance to come out of it.

by ghost_ride on Dec 9, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

You must be joking

“In every way”? Gordon already plays better defense than Ricky has ever played in his career.

by madglove on Dec 9, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

He's not joking

Which is why the comment is so silly, unless he thinks EJ really really sucks

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Um...

no.

Oh me, oh my!!!! The Red Baron has come home!!

by Clipper T on Dec 11, 2008 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Observations

Got to see a nice glimpse of the Clippers playing well for about 30 minutes of game time, as CS points out. The combination of a horrible game-opening drought and an equally bad or worse game-ending drought is just a new twist on the pain. You know it’s coming just when Mike Smith says “these guys can’t match up with the Clips at any position”—even Ralph immediately said “that’s what you said in Dallas, and it was followed by an immediate, complete collapse.” And then we got to watch it happen all over again.

Mardy Collins. The thing is, he played pretty well in the first half and was a solid contributor to the comeback. He really is QRoss all over again, which is dangerous but somewhat intriguing. In the 4th quarter drought he was a big part of the problem. I don’t know that, as CS says, he’s the same player as Q except he doesn’t know that he’s horrible on offense: my guess is that he’s trying to go for it, establish himself on a new team, and be aggressive. It worked for a little while in the first half, but then it was bad when the the Clips had the lead. And I don’t think those minutes should be taken away from Steve Novak quite so quickly and handed over to Collins. Especially when Howard is there, taking away the paint and making things difficult for Thornton, and Gordon is getting open shots and not knocking them down—go to the other shooter. But Collins was helpful and aggressive during the comeback, so it’s hard to figure.

I don’t like to see John R turn too hard on Gordon and Taylor, saying they’re “massively overrated around here.” Davis2 has still done a lot more damage to the Clippers this season than Gordon, and he hasn’t played in 5 games. Gordon got some more blocks and made some plays, but yes, he’s a rookie and a kid and it’s going to take a while. He might as well play lots of minutes, unless he starts to really play poorly, and we’ll see if he can get better. He’s probably going to be up and down.

Hate to see the Clips take a nice lead into the 4th and fail to close it out. It’s just a bummer.

by citizen zhiv on Dec 9, 2008 12:01 PM PST reply actions  

Here's the thing

This roster SHOULD be playing well for 30 mins – actually the team should be playing well for 48 mins. This is not the Ok Thunder.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd rather have the same talent as the OKC Thunder

At the very least, we’ll have an excuse to be this bad.

by cliptakular on Dec 9, 2008 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

The Clippers have the worst starting backcourt in the NBA

I looked it up. The Clippers start the only backcourt combo each shooting under 40%.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure

Micheal Joseph Dunleavy Sr. has the most wins in Clippers history. He is the only Clippers coach to have a >500 winning percentage in the playoffs. He is the only coach to win a playoff series with the Clippers. He’s won the most games in a single season for the Clippers.

In short, he is the best coach the Clippers have ever had. The one that is credited for getting DTS to open his purse strings, even by you. And the best chance they have to start winning again fast.

I could go on, but why? You don’t ACTUALLY want evidence.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL - this year my man - but since you brought it up

MDSR – most wins in Clipper history – not saying much

Most wins in playoffs – he’s only been there a grand total of once in six or seven years as coach. Anyone else would have been fired long ago.

Best coach the Clippers have ever had? Not saying much. And not true – try Larry Brown.

Not surprising that you would dodge the question as to this year . . .

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Well

That wasn’t actually your question. So I don’t see how you can fault me because you lack clarity in your writing.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

To be fair though if you want to compare him to Clippers coaches this year

I have to say that he has the most wins then too. It just didn’t seem interesting to consider.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Dec 9, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Keep dodging . . .

We all understand why you are doing it, though. Pretty funny.

by Jax on Dec 9, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Go to a Buck blog

Ask them what they think of the GM/coach Dunce.

by FireDunleavy.com on Dec 9, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

With this record

they just have to play Gordon the rest of the year. We are out of everything so getting this team ready for next year is all they have going for it. Whoever is the future needs to play and if that means lots of lousy play from Gordon so be it. Better this year then next year when this team can start over with this core. I like the team we have right now when healthy. Learn to play 48 minutes and get the kids ready for big things next year.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Dec 9, 2008 12:27 PM PST reply actions  

It's always "get ready for next year"

…and then next year rolls around and we get more of th same. Hahahah…it’s great to be a Clipper fan.

by Newton Pham on Dec 9, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Mentally

Maybe its just mental that’s why we suck… You know, being the “Clippers”. These players keep saying that we’re underdogs but with the talent that we have, I really don’t think we are underdogs against most teams.

Maybe some new jersey’s may bring a different kind of attitude.

In a grander scale, maybe having our own arena?

In an even off the chart scale, maybe changing our team name? You know… because when people think “Clippers”, it’s usually in a negative way.

…just a thought. :D

by cliptakular on Dec 9, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I love that name...

I love the “Braves” better than the “Clippers” . They changed it to the Clippers when they moved to San Diego because of the coast but I’ve always thout that they should’ve kept the Braves.

Also, that way, we could retire Bob McAdoo’s Jersey!

by cliptakular on Dec 9, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus

I don’t know if the name “Clippers” just has that bad of connotation because of our reputation, but for some reason, at least for me, “Braves” just sounds better.

by cliptakular on Dec 9, 2008 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

that's actually an interesting idea

mentality is very important, look how tampa bay change in mlb in just one season and a lot of that have to with their mentality, the whole change of name, the 9 searching 8 (or whatever it was),.

by XXDC2XX on Dec 9, 2008 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Another Collapse

It has to be in the players heads at this point. Dunleavy also needs to get the right players out there in the 4th quarter, but who are those players?

Eric Gordon has suffered a stat correction as of late, but he was dealing with a lingering hamstring injury right after his initial breakout…hard to tell if that’s still a factor. He should be fine though.

by ghost_ride on Dec 9, 2008 12:40 PM PST reply actions  

me either

they were good when they were in Buffalo. Maybe the name has good karma or something who knows, I am willing to try anything. And we definitely should retire Bob Mcadoo’s jersey.

by bestclipfan on Dec 9, 2008 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

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