Former Clippers in the Playoffs
It's not my thing really to call the banality of other basketball writers. Lots of other sites do that really well, so I tend to leave that to them. But sometimes I come across a piece that's just so silly it can't be ignored. This is one such piece.
Percy Allen of the Seattle Times, apparently just as desperate as I am for something to write about his lottery bound team in these miserable long days before the lottery, decided to focus on 'what might have been' - looking at eight former Sonics playing for the final eight teams in the NBA playoffs. Eight playoff caliber players. Sweet noodly FSM! How good would the Sonics be right now if they had just kept those eight guys? The answer of course is, not very good.
Let's ignore the simple fact that he happens to be compounding players. So, yes, it's true that Ray Allen and Wally Sczerbiak and Delonte West and Ira Newble are all former Sonics. But given that Wally and West arrived in the Allen trade, and were in turn shipped to Cleveland as part of a deal that brought Newble to the Northwest, you couldn't possibly have all of them. If Ray Allen were a Sonic today, the other three would never have been.
Still, with Allen, Rashard Lewis and Vladimir Radmanovic all starting for solid playoff teams, it is tempting to engage in a little hypothetical day-dreaming. What if all those guys were together on the Sonics? What a team, right?
Wrong. No hypotheticals necessary. They were together, for three full seasons, from the point where Ray was acquired at the trade deadline in February 2003 until Radmanovic was traded in February 2006. And during that time, the Sonics made the playoffs once. After a 52 win season in 04-05, big things were indeed expected from these three Sonics, the team's three leading scorers that year. But it didn't work out, Radmanovic was sent to the Clippers, and a couple seasons later Sam Presti decided to start from scratch and got rid of Allen and Lewis. It's not like any of these players were wasting away on the bench when they were in Seattle, vast pools of untapped talent going to waste. They were the stars of the team - and the team missed the playoffs. Time to do something different, it seems to me.
But my strongest reaction to the story was to say to myself "I bet you could find eight former players from any team playing for the eight remaining teams." I didn't bother to do it for the entire league, but I did it for the Clippers. Guess how many former Clippers are playing for the final eight playoff teams? That would be eight.
- Sam Cassell and Eddie House play for the Boston Celtics, and split time at reserve point guard as it happens. So far, the Celtics seem surprisingly tied to Cassell - when he plays well, they win. When he plays poorly (as he did to an extreme degree for two games in Cleveland), they lose. This is House's third team since his brief stay with the Clippers and he continues to do one thing very well. As it happens, it's one thing the Clippers have needed for a long time, but I promised myself I wouldn't get nostalgic.
- Keyon Dooling played a key role for the Orlando Magic this season, as a combo guard, another thing the Clippers could certainly use. He's a free agent this summer, so if the Clippers actually believe he can lead them to the playoffs, I guess they should bring him back to LA.
- Brent Barry began his career as a Clipper, a painful memory as he was part of the Antonio McDyess trade (yes, by all means, trade the second pick in the draft for career back Rodney Rogers and 15th pick Barry). He's now 106 years old and obviously instrumental in the Spurs' success, as evidenced by the fact that they traded him in February. Barry is also a former Sonic.
- Lamar Odom and Vladimir Radmanovic and the starting forwards for the Lakers, and the class of this list. Both of them were allowed to leave the Clippers as free agents - in fact, Odom was restricted, so the Clippers had the right to match Miami's offer. If there are players on this list to be lamented, these are the guys. For all the talk of Kobe and Pau, Odom has frequently been the best player for the Lakers this season.
- Melvin Ely is a backup center for the Hornets. He pretty much sucks. If you're going to second-guess anything about Ely, it's the fact that the Clippers drafted him when Tayshaun Prince and Carlos Boozer were on the board.
- Jason Hart is the third string point guard in Utah. He is no better or worse than the guys who were manning the point for the Clippers this season, which is why the Clippers were so very, very bad.
So there you have it. Eight former Clippers still playing in the postseason (OK, Dooling's run ended last night, but you get the idea). Of course, five of them are free agents this summer, so we could bring them back. On second thought, maybe it's not such a bad thing that they're gone.
One last thing - there's a cautionary tale for Clips Nation looking at these Sonics. 52 wins and the Western Conference semis in 04-05 - the lottery ever since, starting over from scratch two seasons later, and now moving to Oklahoma. The Clippers took their place in the Western semis in 05-06 - and have been in the lottery since. LA hasn't given up yet and has the excuse of injuries to fall back on - but it seems pretty clear where this is leading.
Ladies and gentlemen, your Kansas City Clippers!
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Odom and Radman
Interesting. I like the Celtics even less than I like the Lakers and Kobe, although I’d have to see both of them on the floor at the same time before I could figure out who I was rooting for. The fact that the Lakers are getting mileage out of two squirelly ex-Clippers makes the equation more complicated. I’d love to see the Lakers lose, but if they make it to the finals, like I said, I don’t know. Whatever.
The thing that I am curious about, however, is how the Lakers go forward after this season, and how they will stack up as competition for the Clippers in the future. I haven’t been watching, but Lamar seems to make solid contributions as long as he’s out of the limelight, which is generally turned on Kobe anyway (this Kobe sore back could make things interesting, and put some pressure on Lamar). So the Lakers are doing well with Gasol-Odom, but how does Bynum-Gasol-Odom stack up for the future? Bynum’s injury seems fairly problematic now, months later, so are the Lakers facing a sort of Livingston dilemma with him? Will they be forced to choose between Bynum and Lamar sooner rather than later? Of course, it’s nice for them that all of this is completely secondary because they are chasing after a championship right now, but at some point these questions will become real.
by citizen zhiv on May 14, 2008 2:58 PM PDT 0 recs
It's real enough
No one expected Bynum’s recovery to take this long. When you’re talking about the knee of a 20 year old 7 footer, it’s a big concern. Especially when they’re so confused as to what’s wrong that one possibility is exploratory arthroscopy.
The future Lakers have three potential forms. Kobe is a Laker forever, and Gasol is signed through summer 2011, so future for the purposes of this argument means the next three years. At that point Kobe will be 32 and Gasol 31, so there’s no reason to expect diminished returns from either of them.
So, do the Lakers keep Lamar in summer 2009 when he becomes an unrestricted free agent? That also happens to be the time that Bynum is an unrestricted free agent. The good news for the Lakers (unlike the Clippers with Livingston) is that they will get to see Bynum for an entire season post injury before making this decision. Barring permanent knee problems, I’m assuming that Bynum will get a maximum offer to stay with the Lakers in summer 2009.
The three potential Laker teams are:
- Kobe, Pau and Bynum;
- Kobe, Pau and Lamar;
- Kobe, Pau, Bynum and Lamar.
Obviously other players figure in, most notably Farmar – VladRad is signed as long as Kobe and Pau – Walton is signed longer than anyone in purple and gold. But the money (a whole hell of a lot of it, by the way) will be tied up in those 4 guys, or maybe just three of them.
If you win a title this year, without Bynum, do you still spend millions on him, wonky knee and all? My assumption was always that the Lakers would let Lamar walk, and use his money to sign Drew avoiding the luxury tax. But maybe you keep them both, regardless of the cost, simply because it would give you the best team in the NBA for at least those three years. Bear in mind, the Lakers are already a couple dollars into the tax – if they give Drew his payday, it will cost them basically double anything they pay Lamar. That’s a big tax bill, even for Jerry Buss.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by ClipperSteve on
May 14, 2008 3:19 PM PDT
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McDyess trade
If I remember correctly, the McDyess trade was McDyess (the number two) for Rodney Rogers, the number 15 pick (which turned into Brent Barry) and Brian Williams (nee Bison Dele). It was actually a pretty decent trade, if I’ve got it right. Rogers, at that point, had a lot of upside, Williams was a solid young center who had a good, if short-lived career, and Barry was a great pick for a fifteen. At that point, the Clips had Loy Vaught at PF and desperately needed help on the front line. Williams and Rogers made more sense than McDyess. And, when it comes down to it, hasn’t McDyess’ career been a bit of a disappointment? Maybe I’ve been a Clipper fan too long.
by swamigusto on May 14, 2008 4:33 PM PDT 0 recs
Two different trades...
The number 2 pick (McDyess) and Randy Woods (filler) for Rogers and the 15 (Barry) on draft day. Then, in September, Elmore Spencer for Wilson/Dele. The Spencer trade was of course great, though the Clippers did not re-sign him and his LA career was very brief.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by ClipperSteve on
May 15, 2008 8:42 AM PDT
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Just to complete the thought...
Rogers was a number 9 pick two years prior who had just finished averaging 12 points. You don’t trade the number 2 pick for that and the 15. You just don’t. Compare it to the Brand trade 6 years later. The number 2 pick and Brian Skinner for Elton Brand. You know, I’m OK with that.
Even given McDyess’ injury history, you have to remember that he was healthy for his first six seasons in the league, and had seasons of 21 and 11 and 21 and 12. Not all second picks pan out of course, but they have value – more value than Rodney Rogers and the 15. It’s ancient history of course. We’ve both been Clipper fans too long.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by ClipperSteve on
May 15, 2008 9:17 AM PDT
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tied to Cassell - when he plays well, they win
sounds familiar.
by mikey p on May 15, 2008 10:02 AM PDT 0 recs
Trade
Again, it was a long time ago… but my memory is that the Williams/Spencer bit was actually part of the draft day trade, but they couldn’t announce it because of salary cap stuff. (Randy Woods was part of the trade too!) Maybe I’m looking at the bright side. I loved Williams in his single season with the Clips… and McDyess was certainly not what Denver hoped he was going to be… and I don’t think he would’ve helped the Clips much either.
by swamigusto on May 15, 2008 11:28 AM PDT 0 recs
You may be correct...
Same two teams, two trades that look lopsided in opposite directions… certainly trades that are really conceived as one transaction are broken into two parts for various technicalities. I can’t actually think what it would have been in this case, but we’re talking about the CBA circa 1995, and it’s hard enough keeping up with the current rules.
Here’s the McDyess trade on the NBA Transaction database – 6/28/1995.
And here’s the Williams trade, 2 months later.
But even though they were officially separate, doesn’t mean they weren’t linked. It doesn’t help matters that I was living in Paris at the time, so I was less in tune to the off-season comings and goings. My impression was always that it was a bad trade, but that may be partly a misconception by the way it is represented in the official record.
Any citizens with better memories want to chime in? Were these two Clippers-Nuggets trades of 1995 connected?
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by ClipperSteve on
May 15, 2008 4:37 PM PDT
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