Your information and analysis is dead on. While all the world is Lakers/Celtics, some of us are still concerned with figuring out the Clippers roster and wondering about summer league and the 2nd round pick, let alone the lottery.

Along these lines, your comment about the Knight-Dickau “as tall as you and me” trauma affecting the idea of Augustin as a prospect is exactly right. It would be different if Knight wasn’t on the roster. It would be different if MD had found a way to mesh Dickau/Knight into 48 effective pg minutes (try startimg Dickau?) As it stands, the only PG answer that the Clips have is that Knight is a pretty good 3rd string PG. Liv is a huge question mark, who definitely shouldn’t be counted on as the starter.

But as you say, Augustin at 7, with signing everybody and no trades, seems like a better option than doing a deal with Maggette to get TJ Ford.

I’m not sure that people have been spending enough time considering the idea that Maggette might remain a Clipper, and what that would do to the roster. I know it has been covered in the past, because we’ve been through all of this exhaustively, but it might be worthwhile to review the “stand pat and sign Maggette (and Brand)” solution, and see what that does to the draft. Does it tip the scales to drafting Westbrook instead of Gordon? Can Westbrook turn into a Rondo, and would his defense be helpful against DWilliams, CPaul, Tony Parker and the other PGs? The Clips would be passing on the solid scorer SG prospect Gordon, who would fit neatly with a Mobley transition, but would they need that scorer if they still have vets Maggette and Mobley on the roster? And when I go down this path the thought is that Liv has to do a little more than pick up QRoss’ SG-SF defender spot, and he has to fill the gaps that Knight can’t shore up for a rookie combo guard playing PG.

All of this uncertainty makes my head hurt.

Founding member of Club Optimism. Part of the fun and heartbreak of being a Clipper fan.

As far as Liv is concerned, my first-tier expectation for him is to give him QRoss spot. This is also known to us vets as the Marko Jaric combo guard spot-somebody who has length and good defensive focus. In summer 05 (?), before the S&T with the TWolves for Cassell, the idea was to sign Jaric for about the midlevel, but he was going to come off the bench behind Mobley and starting pg Liv. And instead he wanted to be a starting pg and run his own team. (Let’s not feel sorry for Jaric, between getting paid and the whole Brazilian supermodel thing, he seems okay) QRoss redefined the slot as even more effective defense, with no offense whatsoever. Club Optimism is hoping that Liv can play good defense and be smart out on the court. And CO knows that the best case is that Liv has a modest, injury-free 08-09 season, and however good he might be next year, he’ll be much better the year after, with the “if” about whether he can stay healthy, let alone come back. A long story less long-and Liv is worth discussing because he is a major Clipper question mark—nobody, not even CO members, should be thinking he’ll be the Clippers starting pg on opening day.

I’m trying to understand your statement “would it be better to run with Gordon and let Corey and Gordon share the “pg” duties.” I assume that you’re saying that Gordon’s shooting trumps the idea that most people project him as a pure SG, although CS tells us that his ballhandling is actually better than people are acknowledging. Like I said, I don’t know Gordon well enough to say whether that’s possible, so I’m skeptical. And I don’t know that’s he’s ever been the primary ballhandler on any team ever. Westbrook I have seen as a primary ballhandler, and as I said he’s a very good defender, and he reminds me quite a bit of RRondo. But that’s something of a best case scenario and it’s going to take him some time to get there, and the issue is opening day 08.

A lineup of Brand-Kaman-Thornton-Maggette-Gordon seems very unlikely to me. And one of the problems is that Maggette is an atrocious ballhandler. One thing to note is that I think there will be plenty of opportunities to get Thornton on the floor, and you don’t really have to move Maggette aside to do it. First of all, AT is going to get more minutes if he’s not playing behind Reuben Patterson and Tim Thomas—it’s not as if he wasn’t getting enough minutes in the second half of the season. In many ways AT is the perfect version of the player that MD wanted Maggette to be when he brought Maggs off the bench at the end of 05-06 and in 06-07. Or, of course, you can start Thornton and Maggette and make Mobley into that 6th man.

I understand your desire for someone who can actually hit 3s and be a threat. Augustin is tempting too because he might be the combination of Dickau and Knight that the Clips were looking for last year. He has great offensive instincts and he can score and play a pure PG, and he’s a tough little dude. If the Clips were to pick him I would really want them to get Knight off the roster—CS is right to say that to sub6ft pgs on the roster is just deadly. The fact that Knight can’t hit open shots or penetrate much is just a major liability. Okay for a 3rd string pg, but it really shouldn’t be part of the primary attack.
Just a few thoughts, and there are many more along the same lines.

did anyway see the clippers r targeting calderon? FInally, i mean its gonna take some creativity but i think he would be awesome, i have been wanting him for awhile. I also saw hoopsworld mention an interesting trade… it was the 7th pick and brand for marion and the number 2 pick. Leaves many options…if we take bayless with the 2nd pick then we dont really have a true 4…if we take beasley then we need to then trade maggs for a pg…so many options….

That trade makes the Clips a bigger mess than they already are. Aging, unhappy Marion (and his contract), Kaman, Maggette, Bayless, and Knight? Or swap Maggette for a point guard (what point guard?). That team wins ten games in the west.

Imagine a team of Tj ford thornton marion beasley and kaman, thats pretty strong…I also saw the clips r now interested in arenas…i wouldnt give up brand for him though cuz that would hurt us…if we could get arenas and keep brand i’d do it in a heartbeat

I’m sure Beasley is a great player, and he’s got all kinds of tools. And if you feel the need to rebuild, he would be a good place to start. It also makes sense if you feel there’s a strong chance that you’re going to lose Brand anyway—that would be not one but two really solid pieces in return. But it’s going to take a little while for Beasley to work his way around the league and become a professional.

The trick of the deal is Marion. He seems to be a difficult player to manage, and he’s expensive. Out of all the Suns, he was probably the prime beneficiary of playing with Steve Nash (and D’Antoni). If in fact the Heat might be interested in moving him, you have to ask yourself why, and for the moment let’s say that the Heat actually wants to make this deal. Why? They love Derrick Rose but can’t get him, and they don’t love Beasley. They don’t love Marion. They’re both talented players, but perhaps they have attitude issues (Marion definitely does; we don’t know about Beasley). Basically, the Heat are interested in finding a team leader and super solid player, their version of Kevin Garnett, to put alongside DWade. And that guy might be Elton Brand.

And it’s not just EB—it’s EB plus the #7 pick. In the deep draft, they believe that EB plus an Eric Gordon or Augustin or Gallinari or Brook Lopez, combined with DWade and their roster, would make them competitive sooner rather than later. They want DWade competing with the Celtics, the Pistons and Cavs right away, but Beasley and Marion don’t get them there. They want to see Brand and DWade go up against KG and Pierce.

Trades are very tough. It used to be that the Clippers would routinely get the worst of any deal, or so it seemed. But my sense is that they’ve been much shrewder in the past few years, and they’re analyzing things pretty deeply and carefully. One thing that goes along with that is recognizing the value of both EB and the 7th pick.

About Marion. First of all, Marion’s value is based in part on running the floor and having a great point guard. And the Clippers have a gaping hole at pg right now, so getting Marion but not solving the pg problem at the same time seems flawed.

Then there’s the expiring contract. Doesn’t that give Marion a false value? You can say “if he plays well, great,” but it seems to be more complicated than that. I think we’ve done some careful analysis of the timing and value of expiring contracts, and I’m curious about how this would apply and if it would benefit the Clippers.

On top of all that, Marion doesn’t seem to be a good chemistry guy at all. It would be a big subtraction with Brand gone, plus more subtraction by bringing in a talented selfish guy. Plus a questionable attitude in Beasley.

Like I said, if EB is already gone, so be it, get Beasley and take Marion. But I’d rather dwell on your thinking that EB opting out so that he can sign a max deal and make the most money-with the Clippers-is the way it will go.

Marion was a beast in Phx when Amare was hurt. Marion is a fantastic defensive player, up there in steals and blocks every year. Marion is a good rebounder and scorer as well. The deciding factor for the Phx trade was that Phx wanted to get bigger, not because they wanted to unload Marion.

No brainer if EB is going to go elsewhere. And he just might if Miami is the destination. As I recall he signed there as a restricted FA several years ago.

And we are already in a mess.

Did u guys see the post on hoopsworld about a posisble brand/ arenas swap…I dont know if i do that one, i love EB but seriously, then what r we left with?

includes a rather ominous post about rumors that EB doesn’t want to play for a loser any longer. Makes sense to me. If this is true, and I would imagine that if it is Falk has informed Clippers’ brass, they should be able to work some type of sign and trade.