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Catch Up Post - Brand Rumors

Obviously, I haven't posted in awhile.  Rather than get into the reasons, I'm just going to dive back in with a series of catch-up posts trying to summarize the situation as I see it, with the draft fast approaching.  First up - what's with those 'Elton Brand wants out' rumors.

Rumors are a funny thing.  As they say at Golden State of Mind, '99% of rumors never happen, but 99% are fun to talk about'.  Well, the rumor that Elton Brand might opt out to sign for less money with a contender must fall into that category of the 1% that are NOT fun to talk about.

First of all, I have never seen a bit of attribution for this rumor.  Not even something as nebulous as 'sources say'.  It's just out there.  Art Thompson III, the dean of Clippers beat writers who is certainly very plugged into all things Clippererian, has mentioned it twice in blog posts:  on June 12th he wrote: "There have been rumors that Brand not only is considering opting out but also rejecting any contract offer the Clippers extend and instead severing ties with the franchise that he has played for the past seven years," and on June 15th he wrote "the rumors are Brand has grown tired of losing and is not convinced that the Clippers can rebuild into a playoff-contending team, anytime soon."

So let's be clear: if it weren't ATIII saying these things, I would ignore them completely.  These are ominous words, but they are just words, and they are counter to what Brand has said publicly.  In fact, it's worth noting a couple of things regarding this specific story as relayed by ATIII - the June 15th post included direct quotes from Brand, including one in which he said. "The best-case scenario is to be here and to get to the championship, in the time that we have, and then everything would be great."  Hardly the talk of someone who is planning to reject a maximum offer and leave 10s of millions of dollars on the table, though at the same time not a guarantee that he'll be back either.  Furthermore, in multiple blog posts focusing on Brand's situation since June 15th, ATIII has failed to mention these rumors, so take that for what's it's worth.  If it was a reliable enough rumor to bring it up on June 15th, why would it be omitted from a 'Brand contract' post on June 19th?  And frankly, while I've heard this sort of 'opt out and sign elsewhere' talk elsewhere (and was told that it was discussed on 570 AM as well), most of it seems to be coming from the echo chamber.  Yes, he has an opt out, no he hasn't made a decision, yes, he may exercise the opt out.  Some people seem to conclude that it follows that he wants to sign elsewhere, which is simply not the only possible progression, nor even the most likely one.

In addition to these unattributed rumors, a 'Clippers' insider' was recently quoted in a couple of places saying that 'no one is safe right now.'  I have no problem with that.  With names like Arenas, Redd and Davis floating around out there, I think you have to consider deals involving anyone on the roster.  Not that I would necessarily do the deals, but you have to consider them.  These are all stars we're talking about.  I've gone on record as saying that if there really is a Marion and the second pick for Brand and the seventh pick deal out there, I'd probably do that deal.  Which illustrates the point that no one is safe, and that's as it should be.

But back to Brand and his specific situation.  I've said this over and over, and I'll say it again here: everything about this summer's free agent market indicates that EB will be a Clipper next season.  The Grizzlies have the most money to spend, and he'd still have to take a pay cut to sign in Memphis.  And if indeed he's 'tired of losing', Memphis would hardly seem to be the remedy.  The bottom line is that there are zero teams that could be reasonably considered 'contenders' with the ability to offer any more than the mid-level exception to Elton Brand.  Is it possible that a 29 year old All Pro would choose to sign with a contender at a personal expense of $50M-$70M because he's 'tired of losing'?  Sure, it's possible.  But it would be literally the first time ever.  Ever.

So, given the fact that I trust ATIII, where are these rumors coming from?  Most likely from David Falk, Brand's agent.  I don't believe for a minute that Brand would leave $50M on the table to sign elsewhere.  But if Elton does choose to opt out in this summer's buyer's market, there is also the possibility that the Clippers could try to sign him at a discount, since no other teams have the money to compete for him.  Floating these 'he wants out' rumors may be a way of insuring that the Clippers pony up a maximum offer immediately.  I think they were going to do that anyway, but it's hard to tell with Donald Sterling. 

If Elton Brand truly wants out of LA, the smart thing for him to do would be to play out the final year of his contract.  He'd make $16M next season and become a free agent in 2009 when significantly more teams would have significantly more money to spend.  He'd also have the chance to prove whether or not the Clippers can compete before leaving town.  The June 30th opt out deadline is 6 days away.  If EB opts out, it's good news for Clippers fans, as he'll re-sign with the club (possibly to then be traded, but at least they'd get something in return).  If he plays out this contract, then we'll have to go through this angst times ten next summer.

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It would also give him a chance to prove the Achilles tendon is ok

and get him back into high NBA regard. I just saw an SI mock draft of current NBA players, suggesting that EB wouldn’t merit a top 30 pick.

I don’t like the Marion and No. 2 for Brand trade. You end up with Marion for one year and Beasley, a seemingly talented guy who has some rough patches. If EB leaves, it should be because he wants to.

I do think that this Maggette for Barbosa trade is reasonable, but leave out the draft picks.

by mikey p on Jun 24, 2008 1:25 PM PDT   0 recs

Good to see you back in action CS!!

We missed you….as usual you spell out all the possible angles to these “rumors” that seem to be flying around right now. It’s almost as if Team A likes a player on the Clippers and thinks that they can get said player at a discounted rate because, hey, it’s the Clips…I can’t imagine how many rumors start this way. Anyway, good to have you back.

by Clip Show on Jun 24, 2008 1:28 PM PDT   0 recs

I like the marion for brand trade. You wouldnt draft beasley you would draft OJ and obviously you wouldnt do the deal unless you agreed with marion on an extension. Yes we wouldnt have a big 4….but imagine a team with thornton marion maggette and mayo with kaman anchoring the middle. that would be a fun entertaining team that would cause matchup problems. plus marion is a very good defender

by cliprboy on Jun 24, 2008 1:28 PM PDT   0 recs

But why?

Why would you take Mayo with the second pick, when you might get him with the #3 pick in a deal with Minnesota? Beasley is talented enough to be the universal second choice—a lot of teams could use a guy like Beasley. The Clippers just don’t happen to be one of them.

I’m not sure what the proposed deal with Minnesota would be. It should be enough to give them their pick back, plus the #7, and the Clips take Mayo at #3.

Then you’re imagining a team with Kaman-Brand-Thornton-Maggette-Mayo. Seems a lot better to me.

by citizen zhiv on Jun 24, 2008 1:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yup yup yup

I like the latter line up, though I still don’t think you can play Maggette at the two. It also brings up the question of what’s the Minny #1 (owned by the Clips) actually worth? That pick plus the seven equals number three… that works for both teams. I mean… right? And Maggette for Barbosa in a straight swap, no picks (Maggette’s at least equal value for Barbosa, isn’t he? Certainly stat-wise he is.) Then you go Kaman, Brand, Thornton, Barbosa, Mayo.

by swamigusto on Jun 24, 2008 3:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

As you said before...

...opting out would probably turn out to be good news for Clipper fans, because he would likely be doing it to sign a max extension.

Hope you’re okay and all’s well—the break from posting is just a break, even though it can make some of us a little nuts at a time like this.

I still don’t see the benefit for the Clippers of Marion and the #2 (Beasley) for Brand and the #7.

Marion has decided not to opt out. I saw a note somewhere that that affected Brand’s situation—perhaps thinking that if Brand and Marion both choose not to opt out, they could be traded for each other. And I guess if Marion (and Brand) had opted out, then there could be a sign-and-trade, although I’m not sure how you would make that deal with Marion, especially not in a way that would make sense for the Clippers.

I’m seeing Brand as having equal value to Kevin Garnett. Maybe that’s wishful thinking, but he seems to be a similar foundational player-who might even be able to hit his perimeter jump shot more consistently. Because of Brand’s injury last season (and only because of it), the Clippers also have the #7 pick, which should yield a solid NBA player, with backcourt candidates Bayless (dropping), Gordon, or Westbrook, with the possibility to trade up with Minnesota to get OJ Mayo. My point is that Brand + #7 is a halfway decent nucleus in itself-which is why it’s very attractive to Miami.

What do the Clippers get in Marion and Beasley? In Marion you have a better version of Lamar Odom, he’s a malcontent who is not a foundational player, you’ve got him for one year, and then you have to sort out the contract situation. You’ve got cap space if he’s gone, but you can get that if EB just leaves and signs somewhere else. So in a sense you’re trading the #7 pick for #2, which has to be Beasley. Indications are that Beasley is, well, a rich man’s Thornton (again, like Marion being a rich man’s LO)—they’re all the same guy, great scorers and good rebounders, filling up the stat sheet but not foundational guys, and only as good as their PG. And getting the #2 and giving up the #7 actually would prevent the Clips from getting a guard and solving their glaring problem. Again, for me at least, the “nucleus” of EB + #7, on a team that has Kaman and Thornton, has a much higher value.

by citizen zhiv on Jun 24, 2008 1:32 PM PDT   0 recs

All things considered...

that trade amounts to a year rental of Marion…I would rather rent EB for a year than Marion. Plus there is still the dearth of talent at both guard positions that needs to be addressed. As we all know, the players on the current Clippers roster have trouble making the most simple of post entry passes…how good is Beasley going to be if no one gets him the ball?
I think this is why the Clips should extend brand (if possible), trade up to the #3 and get Mayo, or stand pat and get Bayless or Gordon. The glaring problem of the clips right now is at the guard positions, not the big fellas.

by Clip Show on Jun 24, 2008 1:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you guys misunderstood what i was saying…they would agree pre trade to an extension with marion, they wouldnt just trade him to rent him. Marion is very underrated. phx completly sucked after they traded him away, he is a force, offensively and defensively. and yes beasley would be nice but id rather have mayo, he is the most polished and can play the pg position, then they can go after someone like udrih in FA..

by cliprboy on Jun 24, 2008 2:28 PM PDT   0 recs

Jason (Phoenix): Do the Leandro Barbosa to Clippers make sense to you? Maggette has to not opt out and the Clippers would give up the 7 pick while the Suns give up their 15 as well. If so have you heard whether it’s true or not?

SportsNation Andy Katz: Clippers told me that deal is not happening.

by cliprboy on Jun 24, 2008 2:36 PM PDT   0 recs

If EB's willing to take less money for a ring ...

... then he could try it here. Pretty much any team that could get EB for the MLE would have the resources to be a contender. Even the Clippers. Think we might be able to afford Davis then? And does that lineup not look PF impressive?
Steve, glad you’re back. You didn’t mention the EB to Philly rumors this time - they have, what, $10 million to blow? Still a pay cut for EB.
OT - the Clips are having a draft ‘party’ (or wake—we’ll see) at the Nokia theater. Don’t know if you’re supposed to RSVP, but I can’t imagine the Clips are worried about overflow crowds.
I also read that the guys at the Scout board might be going to Yankee Doodles in Santa Monica.

by pipedreams on Jun 24, 2008 3:45 PM PDT   0 recs

Welcome Back CS...

Maggz needs to be signed and traded for a PG.. Brand needs to stay.. and we need to keep the pick (unless we can package it with Maggz for a star).

I have no doubt that Maggz has already been replaced…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_OCdPVhCk

by CLiPPz WeRD 42 on Jun 24, 2008 9:35 PM PDT   0 recs

Interesting stuff

Don’t misunderstand my point on the Brand to Miami trade rumor. The main point is, no one is safe, and I’m OK with that. More importantly, the real doomsday scenario is losing Brand for nothing, and that’s just not happening.

Calling Beasley a rich man’s Thornton, a ‘great scorer, good rebounder’ is missing the mark, IMHO. The guy led the nation in rebounding as a freshman. What did Thornton do rebounding wise in college? Beasley’s a monster, and going to be a star. We’ll have Brand next season, and I’ll be happy, but Beasley’s the real deal.

Brand to Philly makes no sense. When you consider their cap hold for Iguodala, I’ve got them able to offer about $10M. Now, it’s one thing to take a $6M pay cut to join, say, the Spurs or the Pistons or even the Cavs – someone with a real chance to win a ring. But Philly overachieved massively to win 40 games – in the east. The Clippers won 40 games two seasons ago and 47 the season before that. Philly’s just not a major upgrade, and you don’t take that pay cut without a major upgrade. Unless Elton’s just itching for that Andre Miller reunion, which I doubt.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by ClipperSteve on Jun 24, 2008 10:27 PM PDT   0 recs

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