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Looks Like Fazekas and Williams Will Be Back

The Clippers today gave something to Nick Fazekas and Marcus Williams that they did not give to Shaun Livingston or Paul Davis - a qualifying offer.  Of course, for Fazekas and Williams, it didn't involve a lot of money.  But I am surprised that they did it.  Based on their experience last season (NBDL until the MASH unit Clippers came calling), it didn't seem to be a foregone conclusion that they were going to stick in the big show.  But the QO, if I understand it correctly, is essentially a guaranteed one year offer - they have the minimal right to accept it and become free agents next year.

The Clippers must feel comfortable using them to fill out the roster.  They certainly won't be expensive.  But with the roster in so much flux, I was not necessarily expecting these guys to be two of the givens at this point.

My head's kind of spinning right now.  I need to do a 'Here's the roster right now' post pretty soon.

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Intriguing

Marcus Williams! He’s the key man—the tip off that shows that the Clippers are making the bold play. Look at this roster:

PG: Davis, Livingston, Knight (Taylor)
SG: Gordon, Mobley
SF: Thornton, Thomas
PF: Brand, Powell, (Thomas), Fazekas
C: Kaman, Jordan (Fazekas)

That (shockingly good) roster leaves the Clips thin at SF. MD has played Tim Thomas virtually no minutes at SF as a Clipper, Mobley can play some SF (not ideal), and Livingston might fit in there as well, if he can play basketball. But why do you give Williams a deal so quickly unless you are prepared to renounce Maggette, you’re not giving Ross a deal, and you need a competent backup who is cheap and something of a known quantity? And you make the offer to Fazekas because you might be able to get him to sign for less than you would have to offer to Davis.

That roster still leaves a couple of spots. They still might try to sign a backup PG, maybe even Udrih, and put the burden on Taylor to make the roster. And Davis might be able to play his way to a roster spot as well, though they could be pinching pennies.

In actuality it probably doesn’t mean much, but the fact that the Clips made Williams an offer shows that he must have been doing something to impress the Clips, even though he didn’t spend much time on the court.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 12:50 AM PDT reply actions  

How much would

it cost for Mikael Peitrus? Dude plays SF, can hit the 3 and play some nice D. Is he going to command the full MLE? He would be a really nice finishing piece to this lineup.

by Clip Show on Jul 1, 2008 8:44 AM PDT reply actions  

All Quiet

Most of the news is the same as what was out there late last night. The biggest wrinkle is Bay Area coverage of the reaction by the Warriors, who are using some of BD’s money to go after Arenas, although the problem has always been that they still have to work on Ellis and Biedrins. This makes it seem like the GSW bridge has been severely scorched if not completely burned by Davis. And the domino involved in that is the fact that Davis has to go somewhere, and all of a sudden the Clippers, with the capspace freed up by EB and Maggs, seem like the most logical fit by far, especially when you see it as BD’s King of LA coronation, and a virtual fait accompli.

One potential sticking point might be convincing DTS that he has to renounce Maggette. My sense is that Brand has served this up on a platter, but it has to blindside Maggs at least somewhat, and there was a report that DTS spoke to Maggs last week to say that he was going to make him a good offer and keep him. This might have prompted Maggs to have the confidence to opt out, thinking that even though there were limited options for him, he could still get his 9-10 million from the Clippers. But at the same time BD was reaching his own decision and Brand (and Falk) were hatching a new plan. With all of the quick hits, it’s possible that no one told DTS that he would have to renounce the rights to Maggs in order to make it work. This is exactly the type of little gray area where things go wrong for the Clips.

It raises the question of the midlevel. In one scenario the Clips still offer it to Udrih to become a backup. But resigning with Sacramento as a starter might now seem more attractive than being a backup on the Clips, and we’ve seen all week that there are a number of teams looking for a PG. If Livingston comes back healthy Udrih could quickly be deeply buried on the bench. But just as easily, Liv might not play and BD could be banged up, and Udrih would be a good insurance and would eventually see playing time with a deal that has roughly the same length as BD’s. It’s a quandary.

As I mentioned late last night, the thin spot for the Clips all of a sudden becomes SF, where Thornton is exciting but still just a 2nd year player and Tim Thomas is the next guy on the depth chart. A second ago Clip Show asked about giving Michael Pietrus the mid-level. All of this is said with the knowledge that there are steps to be taken before the Clips get there, but things should be moving fast now.

And I wonder, while Brand is talking about putting a team together and guys making sacrifices, and he and BD are both potentially leaving 2 mil/year on the table, if this might be a message that gets through to Maggette. The Clips have already renounced the rights to Liv with the intention of signing him at a low and manageable number. Maggette has to look at his new options, and if someone out there is going to give him 5 yrs/50 mil he has to take it, and he would probably take a little bit less. But if the bigger offers aren’t there, and he’s looking at teams offering the mid-level, is there any way that he turns around and takes the MLE from the Clips on a short term deal, possibly just one year? It would be a classic example of sacrifice to stack a team and try to win a title, he could be a free agent again next year—when the Clips could dump the expiring contracts of Mobley and Thomas and sign him to the deal he wants. It all sounds like a lot of bending over backwards, but there are worse things than taking cues from Brand, and the Clips might need some sort of scenario that is palatable to DTS.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 9:00 AM PDT reply actions  

I like the way you think Zhiv...

I just posted the same question about Maggette and the MLE on the other entry. If this all works out, it may come down to Orlando and the Clips with the MLE….and we all know the tax situation in Florida, so they may have the upper hand. However, with the Clippers, does Maggette still start?...what about in Orlando? Very intriguing….

by Clip Show on Jul 1, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Feeling you, Show

I think it’s about Brand and BD (and DTS) making a personal appeal to Maggs. The 2010 expiring contracts of Mobley and Thomas could come into it, along with the idea of having a better FA market next year. And yes, I think he starts, and rightly so. If Thornton is just killing it, then Mobley (and Gordon) can come off the bench, but I think that Thornton can be more effective in that 6th man role than Maggette ever was. Can you imagine the Clips starting Mobley with this lineup but bringing in Thornton midway through the first quarter, and then bringing in Gordon for Maggs?

It’s just a very strong, stacked lineup, completely able to matchup against the Lakers and compete with the elite teams. The chance to ride the BD wave to LA popularity and Maggs’ history as a Clipper probably trumps the tax advantage. And EB, BD and Maggs would be playing up the “sacrifice to win” (and takeover the town) thing for all it’s worth—Maggs would look like a hero.

Unlikely, but it is a scenario. The fun part is that there are suddenly all of these favorable outcomes to discuss, which is refreshing after the past week when everybody was expecting the Clippers to give away their players. Not hearing so much of that right now.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not to rain on the parade...

But John R. thinks that when/if the Clips renounce Maggette, the also renounce the MLE for him (or something like that). He is looking into it…
But the scenario you paint looks absolutely ridiculous…in the best way possible of course.

by Clip Show on Jul 1, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maggette is the big loser in this

He is now also leaving $2m on the table if all he can get is the MLE. Not what he was expecting.

Hard to imagine that EB would put Corey in this position.

by mikey p on Jul 1, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Increasingly strange relationship

UNLESS what EB really means with his vague threats are simply overpay Maggette and go get Udrih and I’m happy.

If EB wants Davis, he surely knows that it puts Maggette at a disadvantage competitively for free agent dollars. I wonder how players think about the CBA and if they obsess about it like I do or if they just let their agents handle it.

If its the latter, what does Falk care about what happens to Maggette? EB is getting a near max contractno matter what. The only way to get him significantly more money is to become a “star” and ups his endorsement dollars. I think the consensus is he has a better chance of that with Davis at his side.

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

John R

Do you think DTS knows/knew that he has to renounce Maggs’ rights in order to do Brand’s proposed deal with Baron Davis?

Any progress on whether they have to renounce the MLE for Maggs?

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Im pretty sure the MLE is a goner for Davis

But it all comes down to how much EB and Davis would give up. I mean if they both want to give up about 2.75M MORE EACH in value than the amount they would already be giving up, it can be done. If EB wants to start at 14.5 and Davis wants to come in at 10 its possible. It just doesn’t seem plausible. Like 16 and 12 just seems much more realistic. With about 2M in holds for the Qualifying Offers that went out today, I think that kills it.

Don’t look at the hoopshype salary page today. Its particularly depressing.

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

Is that maybe the worst team ever?

by mikey p on Jul 1, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

wow

cat and tim’s contracts look bad… lol

by cantthinkofagoodname on Jul 1, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's tricky

But Maggs opted out, and then it’s wherever the chips may fall. I just wonder, as I said above, if DTS has qualms about it.

Let’s hope that JohnR comes back with the good news that they can at least offer him the MLE.

And this might be where the goodwill of the league, which might want Baron Davis and a strong Clipper team vs. Kobe in LA, setting up a lucrative rivalry, could come into play. If the Lakers can add Aaron McKie (retired and subsequently arrested) into the Pau Gasol heist, the Clips should be able to at least make an offer to Maggette.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I totally forgot

about the “powers” of the NBA…could we get them to work in our favor just once?

by Clip Show on Jul 1, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's the Thing

Getting Davis, who is a great player, connected, and a showman, would put the Clippers on a whole new footing. If the Lakers were in the dumps it might be a different story and the league might ignore the Clips while the Lakers tried to find their footing. But the Lakers have an energized (cheesy) fanbase and post-Gasol they are an elite team and have Bynum coming back (maybe), so it’s about establishing a contender.

Yeah, just once.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Word is that the Warriors

have offered Arenas a max contract now. Does this piss off Davis enough for him to cut all ties with the W’s and join the Clips?

by Clip Show on Jul 1, 2008 10:56 AM PDT reply actions  

Cynic

The simplest scenario is a dual sign and trade with Arenas and Davis.

The Wizards/Warriors cycle continues!

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

How to play it?

Citizens have to figure out for themselves how to wait out this critical juncture. Above, John R takes the prudent path of cynicism, and no one has ever felt badly by discounting their hopes for the Clippers. Our fearless leader, CS, has apparently decided to lay low and let the noise flow by, but we all know he’s got to be a little edgy right now.

As a charter member of Club Optimism I’m trying to skate past the pools of doubt and look forward to a Brand announcement coming soon and a Baron Davis announcement shortly thereafter. The timing may involve MD’s return to LA—let’s not forget that he was hanging out with Beno Udrih in NYC 14 hours ago, and I don’t think that he’s traveling back on a private jet.

Where do we think we might get the news? Where’s the best place to watch for it?

As far as coverage is concerned, I take it as a good sign that Baron and EB have been up side-by-side on the NBA front page for a long time now, with the Marc Stein story running underneath them.

It’s kind of amusing that TrueHoop posted a pro-Miami Heat email, as if this is all still going to go Miami’s way. That all seems very last week. Wouldn’t people want to start figuring out the most likely place for BD to go? And this comes after TrueHoop ran a piece by ClipperBlog about seeing a screening of the documentary BD produced. Hmmm. What do BD and EB have in common? Oh yeah, they’re movie producers.

Wait a second, so am I!

Zhiv announces Brand-Davis Production Deal…

Zhiv Studios today announced that EB and BD have signed a lucrative production deal as an adjunct to their recent signings with the Los Angeles Clippers. Brand and Davis are hiring heretofore unknown exec “CS” to run the new venture, and they have signed Davis croney Jessica Alba to star in the romantic comedy “ClipperWidow.”

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 11:20 AM PDT reply actions  

LOL

I’m in. Have your people call my people.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 1, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Miami

I think the Heat may have some game here. If the Clips can’t make something happen, I can see EB pushing for a S&T to Miami in a deal that would include Beasley. I’m not sure what else the Clippers could get. Perhaps some expiring paper? Haslem & Blount for the 2010 LeBron run?

Marion would stay with the Heat in this scenario. This could be the dream team that EB is dreaming of.

The best part would be watching Riley wiggle his way back onto the sidelines.

by mikey p on Jul 1, 2008 11:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Equation doesn't work

The thing that doesn’t work in the Miami scenario is BD opting out. For what? So that Brand can do an S&T with Miami? Add to that Brand’s seemingly genuine statements about opting out and taking a little less to bring somebody in, and citing the Boston example. My guess is that Brand (and Falk) ran the numbers with Davis beforehand, figuring out a way that they could both stay in LA together and win. Note that Maggette had to opt out first in order for it to work.

But I don’t see how Miami has anything to do with it. If it falls apart for some reason—if, say, DTS refuses to renounce Maggs’ rights and insists on making an offer to him out of good faith, then maybe Brand might force a move. But DTS will make a lot of money off of BD, so he’d have to think twice.

Don’t worry about Brand’s options. Try to figure out BD’s options. What makes sense for him? Why did he leave all that money on the table?

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

He opts out to get a new contract

I do believe he is genuine. I believe he would rather stay here and win with the Clippers. But neither he nor Falk are stupid. There is a plan B.

The most likely is Miami. They can offer the Clippers a replacement in Beasley, who Riley is still lukewarm on. They can match salaries with junk like Haslem, Blount, etc. And they already have two stars. Wade, Marion and Brand is formiddable in the East. If Brand was moved by his Game 2 experience in Boston, his best chance of achieving it is with the Heat.

I’m just saying. John R’s post revealed just how tricky getting Baron Davis to LA is going to be.

by mikey p on Jul 1, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

since miami

has been brought up in the bd sweepstakes, there’s another team that i’m sure is interested also. that’s the lakers. odom makes approx.14mil. throw in farmar .you think buss/kupchak might be discussing this?

by cars50 on Jul 1, 2008 12:54 PM PDT reply actions  

NO WAY

Been there, done that with Odom. Never deal with your cross-town rival.

The only things that make Miami possible is Beasley and the fact that the Heat are in the East. LAL can offer neither.

by mikey p on Jul 1, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

i was

referring to bd to the lakers for odom /farmar im sure kobe would be all for it.

by cars50 on Jul 1, 2008 1:05 PM PDT reply actions  

I saw this rumor

on Golden State of Mind as well. Something about Kobe and BD hanging at BD’s house in LA a couple of weeks ago…the thing with GS though is that they need to get BIG in order to win. Lamar Odom, as we all know, is SUPER soft and erratic. This doesnt work for the Warriors, but works for the Lakers. Lets get Stern in on this and make this happen. Maybe they can include some dead guy in the trade who still hasn’t officially retired….

by Clip Show on Jul 1, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see why they can't trade Magic, Worthy and Kareem for Davis

I am sure the late George Mikan would provide a ton of cap relief.

by mikey p on Jul 1, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

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