It's Not That I Haven't Been Posting...
by Steve Perrin on Jun 4, 2008 1:49 PM PDT
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PrintI just haven't been posting here at Clips Nation.
Seriously, I know that I've not been my usual loquacious and garrulous self. There are myriad reasons for this. For one, it is simply a fallow time for Clipper news. So although I may be accused of disingenuousness or even dissembling, I would nonetheless attribute the recent dearth of activity not to my own torpidity, but to the quiescent interval. Happily though we are on the cusp of a much more fecund epoch, as the Clippers will now precipitate draft workouts, while the draft itself looms as a forthcoming eventuality, with free agency and summer league supervening thereafter.
Oh, and also I took the GRE on Monday. So that took some time. You know? Totally.
But like a jilted lover, you'll be mortified to know that ClipperSteve's words are featured extensively today At the Hive, discussing one Corey Maggette, who for some reason is a topic of conversation despite the absence of real news.
By the way, At the Hive is the latest SBNation basketball blog and covers the New Orleans Hornets - you should check it out if you haven't already. You should also take the time to visit these other newly minted SBNation baske-blogs -
- Canis Hoopus - Timberwolves
- SLC Dunk - Jazz
- Ridiculous Upside - D-League and Draft news
You'll definitely want to read the interview At the Hive. At the risk of stealing their thunder, when they proposed Mike James, Rasual Butler, the 27th pick this season and a lottery protected future pick for Maggette, my immediate reaction was to scoff. But as I thought about it, I became intrigued. Keep an open mind, go read about it over there, and then let me know what you think. I'll also update the Maggette for... post to include this proposal.
What's becoming more and more interesting is how many teams (or at least their fans and beat writers) appear to be looking at Corey as a shooting guard. I think we've come pretty close to a consensus around here that Corey is really a three, and not a two. And although you can certainly take exception with the decision, MDsr certainly thinks that way. In fact, despite the Clippers' desperate need for backcourt production and the fact that he is at least ostensibly a swing man, Corey played only 5% of the team's available minutes at the two last season, according to 82 game. By way of comparison consider that he actually played 3% of the power forward minutes, and that Guillermo Diaz, Richie Frahm, Sam Cassell, Dan Dickau, Ruben Patterson, Al Thornton, Marcus Williams and Smush Parker all played at least some shooting guard for the Clippers last season. If Corey is in fact capable of playing shooting guard full time, MDsr certainly is not aware of it.
The interest in Maggette the two is no doubt driven by a combination of ignorance and simple demand. The Clippers being the Clippers, most people just don't have much of a clue about what's happening at Staples Center when Jack isn't courtside. You look at his stats, you look at his height, your fantasy league lets you play him at shooting guard - voila, he's a shooting guard. And if you're a shooting guard away from being pretty good (like say, New Orleans or Orlando), you look at this free agent market and you zero in on Maggette. And for whatever reason, the Clippers are not the only team struggling to find help in the backcourt. Most teams aren't quite so desperate at BOTH guard spots, but plenty of teams have a glaring weakness at either the point or at the shooting guard.
It's nothing but good news for Maggette and the Clippers if teams think he can fill a hole at the two. It presents significantly more potential trading partners. Toronto, Milwaukee, maybe San Antonio - those teams could all use a new starting small forward. But I'd argue that there are many more teams who are actively seeking a major upgrade at shooting guard. Even a potential Maggette for Hinrich trade depends on the Bulls viewing Maggette as capable of playing the two. Deng and Gordon are both restricted free agents, but Deng is the more likely to be re-signed, and will always get the lion's share of small forward minutes. And if Deng and Gordon both re-up, Maggette only makes sense in Chicago if he's viewed as the antidote for Gordon's diminutive size.
While we're on the subject, the Toronto papers are all re-emphasizing the point that Bryan Colangelo intends to keep Jose Calderon, and saying that 'five or six' teams have expressed interest in acquiring T.J. Ford. Rest assured that one of those teams is the Clippers. As we've said all along, Calderon is a much better fit for LA, so the fact that Colangelo seems to think he can move Ford is bad news. If indeed the Raptors can get an offer they like for Ford, Calderon is off the market, if indeed he was ever on it at all.
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The deal with...
the Hornets is “intriguing”, but ultimately it sounds as if the Clippers would be gearing up for that 2010 FA class with that trade, and not trying to win right now. If the Clippers want to make the playoffs next year, they need to fill their needs with guys who can play (the point guard position), not bench guys. By making that proposed trade, they would essentially be telling Brand and Kaman that they have to wait until 2010 and HOPE Wade, Bosh or LeBron come to LA…..something that may or may NOT happen…not something I want to “plan” the future of the team around.
Maybe, maybe not
It’s far from a given that the Clippers can do better. Everyone agrees that priority one is to get help in the backcourt, and everyone agrees that Mike James isn’t a great solution. But who is better, and can they get them? Maggette is, for better or worse, the bait. What can the Clippers get for him?
Compare and contrast (GRE testing hangover!) this proposed Hornets trade with a Jason Terry straight up trade. Yes, Terry would likely help more next season, but how much more? Then, if Terry doesn’t get you over the top, you’re stuck with him until 2012 when he’s like 36 or something. Ick.
Here’s the question – if no better options develop, would you do this trade, or would you keep Maggette? I think I’d do the trade.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
I agree
with you on NOT getting Terry. That would be a huge mistake. I think the Clips need to try and pursue a legit point guard this off season, whether through free agency or sign and trade. If that doesn’t pan out, then I would seriously look at the Hornets offer. Ultimately though, I think I would keep Maggette instead of pulling the trigger on that deal. Maggette, if he sticks around, can become the second face of the Clippers (behind Brand of course), he is the personal favorite of the owner, and is a fan favorite when he plays (most of the time). Trading him for those players would signify a rebuilding of sorts, and that doesn’t sit well with me. At that point, I might as well sit at home and watch their games for the next 2 seasons at home instead of paying all the $$ for season tickets, not to mention the commute from the OC to Staples. This is how I feel today….but over time, the Hornets deal may make the most sense in the long run…I am just not buying it.
GRE
Why were you taking the GRE?
I think I took it in 1981.
Regardless, the Clippers should give you an honorary degree in “Maggette Studies.” There aren’t a lot of people who can truly appreciate the depth and complexity of the topic, but the same can be said about people getting graduate degrees with specializations in… take your super-obscure pick.
I took it in 1984 the first time
Surprisingly, they did not want to accept my quarter century old test scores. Go figure.
I am applying to a Journalism Masters program. We’ll see. I seem to be enjoying this writing thing, so if I can remove some barriers to future opportunities, it might be a good thing. Now that I’ve told you, I’ve probably jinxed it. Thanks a lot.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
No Jinx
You’re going to be fine. You’re a really good writer and a smart guy, so you should have no problems. I’m not sure what you have to gain from journalism school, but I guess it depends on what “journalism” means at this point. It seems like you’re in front of the pack with the depth and commitment of your blogging experience, and the trick is probably to turn your skills to something besides, ummm, the Clippers. Sad but true.
On the other hand, you’re going to be a big celebrity at this time next year when the Clippers are playing for the title.
It's a big subject
Do I feel I need a journalism masters? No, not really. I am what I am, I do what I do, I’m happy most of the time. But the Buzz Bissinger incident got me thinking and I guess I feel like I should know a little more about the world of journalism if I’m going to maintain that newspapers are as dead as the trees they’re printed on, and blogs are the greatest things since sliced bread. If the goal is immediacy and reach, blogs win. But what are the other goals? I think I know, but I’m not above getting the official J-school story as well.
It seems entirely possible that opportunities will present themselves in this evolving situation. If I want to help define a role for myself, it would not be a bad thing to have a broader education on the subject. Not to mention that it could open some doors that would be otherwise closed.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
Yes, I'm Bored
So I went over to the Hive, which confirms that CS not only has a PhD in Maggette Studies, but he’s literally the national authority, the “dean” of the entire MS discipline.
All of that is actually fairly pertinent, but the extreme boredom level shows in the fact that I scrolled down on the website and discovered a post honoring Dan Dickau as one of the greatest Hornets of all time, most of it based on what they call “the Clippers game.” We all remember it. They conclude by saying that “ironically enough, Dickau now plays for the team whose heart he broke that day…”
Pretty funny stuff.
It's a great post...
And we are Dickau fans at ClipsNation. But he is a severely limited player. He’s the kind of guy who might start at point guard for an 18 win team. Which is, exactly what happened.
I for one would clearly pick Dickau as the starter over Brevin Knight. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want a better choice.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
Agreed
I was gonna do the list by WinShares, and by that Dickau was 61st or something. But I bumped him because we just grew to love the guy, even though he only played 50 games or something. It’s odd, we always seem to hit it off with the PG’s. Muggsy, then Baron, even Dickau, and now CP.
And honestly, if not Dickau, it would’ve been Eddie Robinson at #30…
Just goes to show
...what one memorable game can do. It’s part of the beauty of basketball. Clipper fans remember it, Hornet fans remember it. For about 15 minutes, Dickau was Steve Nash. You can go back to our discussions right before the season started, when we were wondering, is there any way that Dickau could be kinda sorta like a poor man’s Steve Nash? He could be pretty good, couldn’t he?
The fact is that he had serious limitations, and he hurt his elbow at a bad time, and he wasn’t a great fit with Dunleavy, who is always going to give the nod to defense over offense (unless you’re Sam Cassell or Tim Thomas). I agree with CS, and would have started Dickau in 20-30 games this year, just to see what happened.
Poor man's Nash?
There was a time when Dickau was the rich man’s Nash. Playing point guard in the West Coast Conference, the same conference that produced Nash and before that John Stockton, he was the best of the bunch, imho. And unless I’m mistaken, he was the only one to be named first team all-american.
He’s a perfect example of a GREAT basketball player who in the end couldn’t overcome his physical limitations to be a legitimate star in the NBA. But the guy can play.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
I remember that game....
...Like it was yesterday.. After he nailed that game winning 3, I was like, “WE HAVE TO GET HIM!”
Never did I imagine that he would end up as our starting PG… LOL
by CLiPPz WeRD 42 on Jun 4, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
soooo......
anybody got news on who the clippers have scheduled workouts with?
Nothing so far
I’m trying to find out. There was this on DraftExpress:
the Phoenix Suns’ Dave Griffin and the LA Clippers’ Neil Olshey are putting together a two-day, 24 player workout intended to showcase players in the 10-40 slots of the draft.Ten teams are reportedly already on board, including the Warriors, Kings, Nuggets, Clippers, Trailblazers, Supersonics, Grizzlies, Bulls, Bobcats and Suns. The workout will be conducted in Golden State on the 13th and 14th. Some of the players we heard that will attend include Brandon Rush, Courtney Lee, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Bill Walker, Gary Forbes, J.R. Giddens, Trent Plaisted, and others.
But that pretty much only covers the second round pick, unless the Clippers are planning to trade down. I’ve seen/heard nothing about getting Mayo / Gordon / Gallinari / Love / Westbrook / Bayless / Augustin in for a workout.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
Where else would a Suns/Clippers camp be held?
The mythical city of Golden State is the perfect location.
Corey for Prince
I was just thinking about trade scenarios and thanks to Dumars and his rant on his team. How about a corey maggete for tayshaun prince trade. It works for both teams and gives us a big frontline that can compete with the Lakers.
Hmmm
I was talking to my buddy Timmy T in Detroit the other day after they lost. As is now clear, it looks like no one on the Pistons is safe, other than Rodney Stuckey. Having said that, I told Timmy that Prince is the last guy they should trade. Every other starter is over 30, and Prince is a relative salary bargain compared to most of that team. So maybe they’ll be forced to trade Prince just because he is the one with trade value, but I think they’ll decide to keep him.
Having said that, and although I love Prince, it’s not the trade the Clippers need. Overloaded in the front court, you might as well keep Corey before you trade him for another small forward.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
DO A 3 TEAM TRADE!!!
Pistons get:
TJ Ford
Raptors get:
Corey Maggette
Clippers get:
Chauncey Billups
...add in fillers where necessary!
:D
by CLiPPz WeRD 42 on Jun 5, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I would take Billups in a heartbeat..
Played: 78 of 82 games
PPG: 17.0
APG: 6.8
FG%: 0.448
3P%: 0.401
I would take Billups over TJ Ford
Amazing
how good the Celtics are with two good three point shooters who can also drive (Pierce and Jesus), an excellent-shooting PF (KG) and a serviceable center and pg. Three consistent offensive threats.
We don’t need to have our offensive threats at the same positions, but you must have the three, with two on the court (or a good bench) at all times.
At this point, we have two consistent offensive threats, EB and Corey and one serviceable secondary player, Caveman. We have another potential offensive threat in Thornton, but since he plays the same position as Corey one has to go if we want to get another. This, of course, is why I wanted to take Stuckey over Thornton, who I think we can tell will become a serviceable pg.
In any event, I saw somewhere where Roeser indicated that the Clippers’ first priority this summer is signing a pg. I would submit that this should have been their priority last summer, but I digress. Let’s hope that they can somehow enter into a sign and trade with Corey for another PG and get Gordon in the draft so they will have a capable wing. If they do that, if Thornton can continue to progress, if EB sticks around, if Livingston comes back and if they can pull together some good bench players, they will be ok next year.
Boston
Yes, the Boston 3-point attack with Pierce and Ray is very impressive. They’re elite players and it’s impossible to duplicate.
But when I see Boston and pf KG hitting all of those jumpers, I think about EB and his ability to do the same thing. It’s just such a potent weapon, and something that the Clippers were obviously missing all last year. And EB is reminiscent of KG in that he does so many other things, and brings a palpable passion and focus every night. Odom, who has all sorts of talent and special skills, is a strong contrast, especially when you look at the simple lethal ability to knock down that perimeter jumper. The Clips have all sorts of holes to fill, but I’m looking forward to EB as the anchor for the team and what it’s like for him to play alongside Kaman 2.0.
by citizen zhiv on Jun 10, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, you've missed my point
You don’t have to duplicate what Boston has done. You just need to have two good perimeter shooters to open up the middle, like Orlandoand or the Hornets, for example.
As I’ve said ad nauseum, if you don’t have three consistent scorers, you simply cannot waste a starter’s position on players who cannot score such as Q Ross.
Even the Spurs, who have role player shooters like Bowen and others, with Manu as well, have the formula down. Spurs’ consistent scorers are parker (not a three point threat), Manu (three point threat) and Duncan (like KG or EB).
The consistent scoring on any team can come from several different places, but you have to have it to win. As Red Auerbach used to say, the most important thing about the game of basketball is putting the ball in the hole. Everything else flows from there.
I was thinking that EB
could go on a tirade, a-la Bean Bryant did last summer and force mdsr, Elgin and Donald to make huge move!...he could say the unless they make (or promise to make) a sizable move, he will not sign…but knowing the nice guy EB is, i am not holding my breath…
It is sounding like livingston may never play again according to the boston globe today. I also am hearing more and more about corey maggette for tj ford. I think this would be a terrible move because again, he is a small guard who cant shoot…we already have those..i’d much rather have hinrich. i also hope we select eric gordon because he is strong and can really shoot
livingston
yea i read somewhere that livingston cant workout full contact drills on back to back days or something like that. Not a good look for clipper fans right now. On the other hand arenas just opted out. im holding my breath, but not hoping for the best. What about if we trade for tj ford and demand kapono as well. then we draft eric gordon and surround ford and brand with shooters, that might work out. I also think ford is an underrated shooter. I remember watching him in a game last season vs boston and he carried his team on his back by making a bunch of threes to send it into overtime. Also in the beginning of the year there was no question that everyone thought ford was much better than calderon, with calderon only playin a couple backup mins here and there( i had calderon on my fantasy team, so i kept track), maybe with a summer of rehab he can get back to that form, so i wouldnt mind that trade if we can get kapono as well
tj ford
there is no doubt tj is talented, i was at a game last year where he hit the game winning shot against us… the problem is that he is so small but he is super quick and if you surround him with big guys he might be valuable
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