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The cap situation in numbers

I threw out some ideas last night about the Clippers in free agency but I was unusually imprecise due to the hour, some uncharacteristic BD stoke and also a little of grandpa's cough syrup. I played fast and loose with the numbers and consequently I am Ashamed of myself. I am Sorry.

Here's my better attempt at breaking down the Clippers' cap situation in very precise terms as I understand it.

As usual all salary information is taken from the Hoopshype.com salary page. Because they have dropped off old salaries, there is an assist from B-ref's player pages as well.

First off we have the Clipper 5: Knight, Mobley, Thornton, Thomas, Kaman. Poor souls. At least they form a potentially functional NBA team. Total cost: $28.4M
Eric Gordon is already locked into a guaranteed salary since he was a first round pick. Last year's 7th pick (Corey Brewer) made about $2.5M last year so lets call it $2.6M. Total spent in actual players: $31M
Our next cap hold is the Qualifying Offers extended to Fazekas and Williams. A QO must be for 125% of the restricted free agent's former salary. So combined for the two here I'm putting $1M. That's probably an overestimation, but its hard to find numbers on these guys. This is an absolute cap hold since the Clippers have reportedly extended the offers, but they are not yet Clippers since other teams can make a competing offer.
Total spent in players and QO's: $32M

That's 8 players accounted for at a cost of $32M. If we estimate the cap at $59M, the Clippers technically have $27M to play with, but its not that simple. There are two major cap holds against the Clippers right now, as we well know. Corey Maggette is holding up about $10.5M of that money and Elton Brand is over $22M. So that's the end of free agent spending. Hope you enjoyed it. Livingston is still a hold and there are various other holds. Until something happens, the Clippers don't technically have any money to spend.

What are those somethings? The most obvious is to renounce the Bird rights to Corey Maggette. The plus of that is that now he does not count against the cap. The minus is that without special rights, the Clippers are on equal footing with everyone else when bidding for his services. But as we see, even that is not enough to become a free agent player. Something must also happen with EB and others first. So EB must be resolved before any free agents can be chased. Let's say he likes what he sees and agrees to not take a raise this year and stay at about $15M to start his next contract. 8 Clippers plus EB moves the locked in salary to $47M.

Still assuming a cap of $59M, that leaves us $12M to play with, and no Corey Maggette. Still not so fast. Livingston is holding some figure, as well as the various exemptions, the Mid-Level, the Bi-annual, and cap holds for empty roster spots to bring the team up to 12 players. The Clippers would pay 3 of those, but luckily each is for the rookie minimum, so about $1.3M all total.

We are back to giving up more rights for more cap room. Livingston goes the way of Corey. You renounce all your exemptions, giving up the chance to use them to add free agents, and you are down to about $48.3 that is absolutely locked in as your cap figure. This means the max you can offer BD straight up is $10.7M to start. This roughly jives with the 5yr/$60M contract rumor floating around.

Seems high enough to meet his value, but will he see it that way?

Note the specific order here. EB is holding much more cap space that his likely actual contract will be. So his situation needs to be resolved first. That isn't to say its in the dark. He'll probably have a good idea of what's going on. But the Clippers aren't actually in a position to sign anyone until EB is actually worked out first. A peculiar case of taking on a big contract actually improving your cap situation.

EB can take a little less to get Baron a little more, but there aren't too many other places to wiggle the money around. These are all locked in by definitions in the rules.

The Clippers would then need to find at least 2 more, and more like 4 more players at essentially the minimum salary. They could bring in their second round picks or find veterans who want to play for a BD/EB/Kaman Clippers. The actual salary doesn't matter except to say it will be defined by the player's years of experience. Whatever the minimum the salary is for that individual player is, the Clippers will be allowed to pay it.

One final trick. If another team puts an offer sheet to one of the Clippers' restricted free agents on a QO (Fazekas and Williams), that number becomes their new cap hold until the Clippers decide what to do. Another team could jack with the Clippers cap space on that right now. If they were so inclined.

So I think that's all correct as it stands right now. Let me know about any corrections I need to make.

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Thanks John

Excellent write up. I was unaware of the amounts for the empty roster spots. I now see why they gave the QOs to Williams and Fazekas – it doesn’t ding their cap number any more than the roster spot.

If all goes according to your plan (and I think EB might be willing to let some of that $15M you mention slide to BD), I think you could still sign Livingston. If you offer him a long term contract at the minimum, where everything but the first year is a player option – he’s covered by the length if he can’t ever play again. And he opts out for more money (and the Clippers have his Bird rights back) if he plays well. He may get a better offer, but it’s not a bad offer. And he shows some loyalty to the org, and he also gets to play on a really good team. In a post Mobley/Thomas world, I think a healthy Livingston is a HUGE help to a very solid Clippers team playing the 1, 2 and 3.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 1, 2008 11:41 AM PDT reply actions  

That's very interesting and creative

Specifically, if you renounce a player, you lose your Bird rights for…..one year? That’s not really a punishment at all.

Your idea is completely legal under the cap and awesome to boot.

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Liv

The issue that may preclude Liv from signing for the mininum to stay w/ the Clips is that he really has no spot on the team. How is he going to showcase his talents as a “jack-of-all-trades” backup? This is assuming BD and EB get signed ahead of him.

by supac on Jul 1, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still okay

First off, let’s remember that Liv isn’t allowed to play basketball yet. There’s that.

If any of the Clips’ backups were better it might be a different story.

At pg, Knight is more of a 3rd string guy than a back-up, and we don’t know anything or have any expectations about Taylor. If Liv can play, plenty of minutes for him backing up BD.

At sg, Gordon is a young rookie. Cat is a grizzled vet. Liv is a good 3rd string option for both of them.

At sf, with Maggette gone, 2nd year man Thornton’s primary backup is-ugh!-Tim Thomas, who has played almost no minutes at SF on the Clips. Behind him is probably Mobley (not a good option), and then the intriguing Marcus Williams. I hope that Williams turns out to be pretty good and he can take minutes away from Tim Thomas here, and play some backup SG as well.

But you know what would be even better?-if Livingston can just play basketball and contribute. He doesn’t need a starting spot this year-he just needs to get back, stay healthy, and make it through the season. If he’s good and can play, everybody wins. If he’s great, it’s not going to be this year, and it will be a fantastic, high class problem for the Clippers, and they will that much more competitive.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great post John...

It clears up a lot of questions….
So, right now, we should be looking for something stating EB has resigned with the Clippers. That is the first step in all this madness…

by Clip Show on Jul 1, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions  

Great job, but way over my head

In all honesty this puts doubt on the Baron deal. He has to want more money than 5/$60M. Especially is Agent Zero is about to pull 6 yrs/$120. I think he is trying to work GSW. Hope I’m wrong.

I think a more likely outcome is EB at $15M, with Maggette at $9M and a strong run for Udrih at the MLE.

I am also becoming concerned with a Miami S&T for EB. Beasley and some fillers for cap relief in 2010. Gives Brand his dream team with Wade and Marion.

by mikey p on Jul 1, 2008 11:54 AM PDT reply actions  

Its a little too perfect right?

He probably wants more money than that, but can he get it is the question.

Davis is unquestionably a better player than Arenas, but its not always that simple. Arenas has the cache, and is a 3 years younger.

On Miami, there is no reason to play ball with Miami. They can’t touch EB unless the Clippers let them. And if I’m the Clippers I’m not doing anything less than was allegedly on the table on draft night. Beasley and Marion. And oh yeah, since you messed with us, no Clipper picks in the deal anymore. Brand for Beasley and Marion.

I am still of the opinion that the Clippers, being the Clippers, should not target cap relief as a method to acquire talent. All trades should be made with an eye to improve the team on the floor only.

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Davis

Why did he opt out? That’s the question that I keep coming back to. If he doesn’t go to the Dubs, the Clippers seem like the only viable destination.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 1, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

S&T

The Clippers may not be able to make a package to get him in S&T, but there are 28 other teams out there.

The stars are very much aligned.

I think that is what is making us not believe it.

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm

I wonder if when you sign a player, you can instantly roll the empty slot cap hold he takes into their salary. Seems like you should be able to. That would but BD at over 11M to start and about $65M over a 5 year contract. I am not sure about this though.

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions  

good question

Of course the announcement of the actual salary cap number next week has a HUGE bearing on all of this. Do we have $25M to split between them? Or $29M?

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 1, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

What about down the road?

Great breakdown.

But I was bumped when you assigned EB the 15 million, although there’s a later mention that he could give some of it to BD.

My question is whether the Clippers can spend some of the Mobley-Thomas 2010 money on these deals.

Let’s say they split the money now—that’s approximately 13.5 apiece. What happens to the numbers for next year?

But more importantly, can they spend the unassigned 2010 money, so that, for instance, instead of 5 yrs/60 for BD, he gets something like 5yrs/80, that goes 13.5/13.5/17/18/18?

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 12:22 PM PDT reply actions  

More questions

If they can spend some of that future capspace, how do you see the breakdown between a good offer to BD and one for EB, giving EB the edge I suppose and perhaps an extra year?

The problem with the backloading is that these guys could be slowing down considerably by then, and BD could be extremely creaky. But it’s important to remember that in BD’s 5th year he would be a sizable expiring deal.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can't do that

But a non-Bird player (BD) can get 8% raises per year. A Bird player (EB) can get 10.5%.

Starting with the somewhat arbitrary numbers I assigned and using max contract lengths based on signing type:
BD: 10.7/11.6/12.5/13.5/14.6 = 5yrs/62.3M
EB: 15/16.6/18.3/20.2/22.4/24.7 = 6yrs/117.2M

(This seems to address your new question too.)

You might be able to pull a trick here and give BD an opt out when he would be a Bird free agent in 3 or 4 years, but like you said, would you pay him off then?

Both these guys should probably take this pay day now and just see it through. This will probably be their last big contracts.

Looking at it again, EB “just” taking 15M isnt even that much of a pay cut…

BD is taking a big cut. The only way he gets back up to his rediculous old number is if GSW re-signs him or they find a suitable S&T.

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Look at those numbers in year 4 though

BD = 13.5
EB = 20.2
CK = 12.2 (Still under contract!)

46M for those 3 guys, and Thornton becomes a restricted free agent that summer too. If he blossoms is he a 9M to start guy? By this point you’ve done something with the Mobley and Thomas 15M, hopefully traded for another nice piece.

LUXURY TAX DANGER ALL AROUND.

by John R on Jul 1, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

It works.

To me it seems like the negotiation is about 300-750k that Brand might give back to BD. 10.7 seems on the low side for BD to take, and my guess is that the number would be between 11-12, and it has to come out of Brand. But he can afford it, since he keeps his Bird rights, bigger starting point, bigger increases, and extra year. And the point about what the cap actually turns out to be, as CS has emphasized, is crucial to these guys.

I’m not worried about the luxury tax danger. The team is being constructed to compete right away, with a number of players in their prime. If they get the promised land in sight or even make it, they’ll be stuck with the high class problem of retaining players on an elite and highly lucrative team. DTS will already have made a lot of money off of these deals, and could be positioned to make a lot more.

I’m sold on Davis’ star quality—and it’s value to DTS. I think that the move to GSW really helped his profile and the 07 Dallas series was a big step. Add to that the fact that he stayed healthy all year, which is good news. The undersized Warriors weren’t able to recapture the Nellyball magic with Jason Richardson gone, Stephen Jackson’s suspension and their slow start, and an undersized team. We all want to see Brand and Kaman 2.0 playing together, but how much do we want to see those guys playing with a perfect fit like BD, as CS mentions. Translation: lots of butts in the seats and lots of merchandise on the streets.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 12:58 PM PDT reply actions  

"perfect fit"

I’ve said it before, but I don’t think B-Diddy fits well w/ the MDSr-led Clips at all. He would have to learn to be a distributor and facilitator rather than a freewheeling chucker. His 3P% realllly scares me.

That said, I’m as excited as anyone to be entertained by the BD/EB/CK trio. Not to mention the kids AT and EG (ok, maybe AT is an old kid, whatever). I’m skeptical as to the outcome, but I’m on board for the adventure.

by supac on Jul 1, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Davis for Mobley, Thomas

One solution is to persuade GSW to sign and trade Davis for Mobley+Thomas.

Why would GSW do that? Because we would also throw in DeAndre Jordan and two first round picks.

Why would we do that? Because it allows us to keep Maggette or trade him for someone like Barbosa. Plus we will have more room to sign other players like Kurt Thomas, Bonzi Wells, and Udrih. Imagine this lineup:

Davis / Udrih
Barbosa / Gordon
Thornton / Wells
Brand / Powell
Kaman / Kurt Thomas

by bballanalyst on Jul 1, 2008 1:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Udrih

is no longer an option…
why would the clips want Bonzi Wells when they can get Mikael Pietrus for the MLE?

by Clip Show on Jul 1, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Back from lunch

Just finished my important Hollywood power lunch and no, I did not see Brand or Davis there making deals.

Where to start? Okay, Udrih gone. Is that good or bad? The “Midnight Meeting” is even funnier now. Where’s Dunleavy?

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 3:05 PM PDT reply actions  

The Midnight Meeting

Either MDSr. did a poor sales job on Beno, or the Clippers told him that he won’t be needed now that the Davis deal is close.

The article did say the Clips offered Udrih the MLE, so who really knows.

by mikey p on Jul 1, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

A question

I know it will lower my grade on the test, but is there something somewhere in there about the Clips no longer having the MLE? I was more focused earlier on whether they could give it to Maggette, and accepted the seeming fact that they couldn’t.

But now that Maggette is getting MLE offers from other teams, starting with the Celtics, it raises the question: can the Clips offer the MLE to James Posey? That seems like it might be a nice little swap.

On the test, however, based on my memory of the lecture, I’m answering “no.” Same old story: should have studied harder.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 1, 2008 3:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Almost there...

Do the Clips get the bi-annual and the mid-level exception back next year? Will Brand’s deal be a six year pact (I’m sure that’s in there but I couldn’t track it)? Might either BD’s or Brand’s pact be progressed up or down to ameliorate cap issues? (I’m obviously looking for ways to put aside some money for Liv or another pickup.) Finally, I know it’s around somewhere but when do Maggette and/or Thomas come off the books?

by John Raffo on Jul 2, 2008 8:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Next year

They will have their full complement of exceptions. If Livingston is a Clipper this year, they can sign him free and clear since they will have his Bird rights next year. They can sign him for anything regardless of the cap.

With the BD and EB deals, and Kaman’s too, the Clippers should not be expected to be free agent players again for some time.

BD and EB are probably getting tightly structured and very traditional deals. Start at the max they can get and get max raises each year. That’s my guess. EB for 6 and BD for 5 which is the max number of years.

Maggette must already be off the books to get Baron. He is a former Clipper now.

Mobley and Thomas’s contract both expire after next year making them valueable expiring contracts potentially as soon as this year’s trade deadline, or even sooner. But for now they both have to be assumed to be needed in the rotation, I’d say.

by John R on Jul 2, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agree

The bottle neck for Brand and Davis is getting them enough money under the cap now. They will therefore be given the max raises allowed in subsequent years. i.e. both deals are traditional yearly increase deals.

The good news is that, although the Clippers will be over the cap for the foreseeable future, the start off way below the luxury tax – the grown up tax. IF (big if) Livingston likes the Perrin plan (minimum deal with as many player options as he wants), there will be plenty of money to re-sign him. Likewise for Thornton in 2011, which is a year after the Thomas and Mobley deals are gone. So the Clippers can keep this starting lineup together (I’m penciling in Gordon as the starter at the 2 in a couple years) for the foreseeable future.

Things will change – they always do. But for now, the team is in a really good place. Best four players locked up for 4 years min. Flexibility under the luxury tax to keep the players they want to keep.

I really have my fingers crossed on Livingston.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 2, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

John you seem to be as much of an amateur capologist as I am

So let me share some of my favored links when figuring this stuff out.

One is Larry Coon’s FAQ for the CBA. Another is Sham Sports. Another is Dan Rosenbaum’s blog that he released after the current CBA was put out in 05. (I doubt he has made many adjustments though because he has been working for the Bobcats for who knows how long.)

Also I like the ESPN trade checker because they include BYC, PPP, and Trade Restrictions on players (and even add a short reason why). They also usually include how much a player is bought out (like how much Adonal Foyle counts against the Warriors cap for instance). The only thing I will say about Sham is that they haven’t updated the salary info like Hoopshype, but when the guy who writes that blog does, and he happens to be an English Bulls fan, then they do a better overall job than Hoopshype does.

I find these places useful myself, but I haven’t checked Hoopshype in months as I found their info to be way too incomplete.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 2, 2008 7:23 PM PDT reply actions  

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