So now...

by clipped on Jul 1, 2008 11:04 PM PDT

How do we go about resigning Livvy? I like CS's idea of a minimum multi-year deal with player options, but I wonder if Livvy's agent likes that idea much. I know he's still risky, but teams will definitely be taking aim at him nonetheless. Any indications as to how we're gonna lock him up? I guess we can take solace in knowing others won't be offering much for him either right?

And I know this is just selfish at this point, but is there ANY scenario in which Maggs stays in a Clipper uniform? I can't find a way, but maybe JohnR the capologist can figure something out.

Fear the Beard!

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There is a way to keep Maggette

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2008/6/30/562248/the-offseason-just-got-int#7104057

I just have no idea what it is.

by bballanalyst on Jul 1, 2008 11:39 PM PDT reply actions

I thought of a way

Find a team (let’s say GSW) with cap space to give Corey a deal for 6.5 million / 2 years with an opt-out the second year. Corey would agree to this because it is higher than the MLE.

Now trade Thomas + 2 draft picks for Corey. That way we get Corey back using the money allotted to Thomas.

by bballanalyst on Jul 2, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions

So now the Clips nation

has become a little cocky? Since we (Warriors) are screwed right now you just want to make a “finish him” move to us? Don’t forget what comes around goes around(BD,EB knees)!

by buky on Jul 2, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions

I think it was a joke

We feel for you GS. There are winners and losers in this deal for sure. One loser is Corey Maggette. Another loser is GS fans. It stinks for you.

You don’t want Tim Thomas. We know.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 2, 2008 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Slim slim slim chance for Maggs

And its a spin off of CS’s Livingston play. Which is completely brilliant and one can only hope the Clippers and Livingston’s camp figure out this is the best possible route for him.

Because only the Clippers could possibly have his Bird rights next year, its possible Maggs and his agent could look at the landscape and decide its in his best interest to take 1 year at the minimum and then try again for a big pay day next year.

I imagine their targets go something like this:
1. Big money from Philly (Philly is reportedly targetting the Josh’s from Atlanta first)
2. Big money from Memphis (My guess is that the Grizzlies sit on the cash this year)
3. Big money from Golden State? (They already have approximately 15 wings under contract, so what’s one more)
4. A mid-level from a contender

So if he doesn’t get his big money contract, conventional wisdom says you go to a contender for the mid-level. Functionally this means he would make under 6M next year and noone would have Bird rights for him for 2+ years after that.

His window would be closed to get another big contract after 3 or 4 years, in my estimation. By the time the contender he goes to now would have his full Bird rights he will be 31/32 and I now Im the bad guy but I’m unconvinced his game will hold up as his athleticism starts to fade. Do you sign a 31 year old Maggette to a contract that starts at 10M per?

Now without Bird rights, he plays for a contender for 1 year and then goes on the free market again. He would be in the situation he is in now. Someone would need to be able to take on his whole salary to sign him. Sign and trades would again not be possible.

So with all that under consideration, I suppose there is a 1% chance his camp does the math and considers the slightly increased chance to sign a big contract NEXT summer that would come with the Clippers having his Bird rights worth more than the 4+M he would lose playing for the Clippers this year. And the math says it might make sense. If he were to tragically whiff again next summer and have to take the mid-level again, now he is out $10M or so total vs estimated market over those two years. So you see where this margin play lies. He can give up 4M this year and have a 100% chance to sign a big contract next year since surely the Clippers will pay him if noone else will. Or he can take that percent chance down to like 90% next year, keep the 4M, but risk a sort of castastrophic disaster going forward and play for the Celtics.

That’s a straight emotionless economic value call. There is some potential incentive there to remain a Clipper.

But then emotions take over.

Consider Maggette a former Clipper.

by John R on Jul 2, 2008 8:37 AM PDT reply actions

Agree...

The other option is for Brand to take an even bigger pay cut in order to get Maggs some $$ now, right? Say EB signs for a $10mil starting salary (sim to BD), and then Maggs get the rest. Does that work?

by Clip Show on Jul 2, 2008 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Rough math

It would have to be a big cut to even get close to the mid-level.

Better just to wrap everyone’s minds around the fact that he is gone.

If he finds value in that 1% play I described then everyone is free to be pleasantly stunned.

by John R on Jul 2, 2008 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions

agreed

let’s commend Corey for his service to the team. This deal had to be done to retain EB.

by Jax on Jul 2, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions

Done...

He is no longer in my mind…

by Clip Show on Jul 2, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Wow, John, you are good at this stuff

You can be my agent when I go pro, or my GM when I buy a team.

by mikey p on Jul 2, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions

Done

I’ll get to work finding where you can be included in a trade for salary matching purposes.

by John R on Jul 2, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Got ya

Thanks for the play by play.

Peace out Maggs, best of luck…

by clipped on Jul 2, 2008 9:45 AM PDT reply actions

Magette

First, we need to thank Magette for his time with the Clips. He will be missed. Also, I feel bad that he is most likely going to take a big hit on the money he deserves.

Last night at dinner I mentioned the same idea about Magette staying with the Clips. I even throw in 6 years at minimum deal with a annual opt out. This way if he gets career ending hurt there is still money there for him. Everyone laughed at me for even thinking he would consider the porential upside of staying with the Clips for this year at reduced pay.

There was a question that came up about trades that no one could answer- how much weight does future draft picks count toward salary matching in a trade? The idea was tossed arround for a sign and trade of Magette with taking mostly future draft picks in return. Is there any way that works? That way Clips get something & Magette gets his pay day.

by HT on Jul 2, 2008 11:32 AM PDT reply actions

2 Answers

Picks count $0 until you use them.

Unfortunately for all parties, Maggette cannot be signed and traded. I am pretty sure the scenarios I list are considered his only options.

by John R on Jul 2, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions

Few people are unaware of the fact

that Bird Rights are what allow sign & trades to happen. Maggette being renounced (to sign Davis) is the double edged sword of dealing with Free Agency. (I personally don’t think Maggette is a huge loss but that’s me.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 2, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Trade

Remember, as of now Maggette is not a Clipper. So they can’t trade him. And they can’t sign him for more than the veteran’s minimum. (Actually, that’s not technically true since no Brand deal has been announced yet. But if Brand is still a Clipper, which he is, Maggette’s only option in LA is the min.)

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 2, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Thanks for the Answers

The hope would be to sign & trade Magette for draft picks then sign EB & BD. But if draft picks count $0 it wasn’t even wishfull thinking.

I thought Maggette has not yet been renounced and therefore a sign & trade was still an option. Once traded his salary would not count against the Clippers, it would be the salary of who you received in return. So you would have to find a way not to take back salary- that’s where the draft picks idea came from. But $0 value kills that whole idea.

by HT on Jul 2, 2008 12:21 PM PDT reply actions

In theory...

you could trade corey to a team with cap space, and get something in return. Of course, that team with cap space also would have the cap space to sign him outright. So why would they make a trade. You could trade Corey and $3M cash to Philly for a draft pick, if Philly was willing to sell a draft pick for cash.

You’d have to do all of this in a particular sequence on the 9th of July (when official deals can happen). You sign and trade Corey – you never actually renounce him since you’re clearing his salary this way. You re-sign Brand (if you don’t actually re-nounce him you can sign him for 6 years with 10% raises). Then you sign Davis. Phew.

Corey has not been renounced yet, since nothing is official until the 9th anyway. But as of now, barring unrealistic trade scenarios like the one I just laid out, the first orders of business on July 9 and to renounce Corey and Shaun.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 2, 2008 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions

This outfit is claiming that Corey is on his way to SAS

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9329

by mikey p on Jul 2, 2008 1:48 PM PDT reply actions

There is also the possibility that Philly or GSW could sign Corey

and trade him to a contender mid-season for expiring deals and picks. Maybe to Cleveland for Wally S.

Then Philly can make a run at an 09 free agent, Iverson (LOL) or Boozer, if he opts out. Rasheed is from Philly.

GSW could get Kidd in 09 for his last contract in the Bay Area.

by mikey p on Jul 2, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Saw that

Hoopsworld’s headline writers are way over the top,if you ask me. Headline wonders, “Maggette off the market?” Then you read the piece and it says the Spurs are interested in him. Well, duh. Not the same as “off the market.” Those guys bug me.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 2, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Me too

They talk a bunch of junk, and it’s unsubstantiated crap at best.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 2, 2008 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions

question

does maggette have to be renounced because he optied out of his contract? can’t another clipper player be renounced/waived in order to keep him? just wondering?

by cars50 on Jul 2, 2008 3:55 PM PDT reply actions

it's about the money

Corey makes $7M. If we could renounce Cat Mobley or Tim Thomas, we would. But they have guaranteed contracts, and it counts against the cap even if we cut those guys. The cap calisthenics require the Clippers to renounce Maggette and Livingston to put together enough to sign BD and EB. No other choice. Promise. No Aaron McKie loophole on this one.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by Steve Perrin on Jul 2, 2008 4:17 PM PDT reply actions

thanks c.s.

you also answered my next question.

by cars50 on Jul 2, 2008 10:11 PM PDT reply actions

From the San Antonio Express News

“The Spurs’ purported interest in Maggette is not surprising. He would give them another athletic scorer on the wing, capable of creating his own shot.”

Well, not exactly. But he will get to the line.

by mikey p on Jul 3, 2008 8:20 AM PDT reply actions