So, Who's the Power Forward?
by Steve Perrin on Jul 11, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
in News
76 comments
Point guards are so June. Power forward is the new point guard.
The Clippers suddenly find themselves as the only player in the free agency market. (A quick aside here: How 'bout them Grizzlies? They were so desperate to get rid of Pau Gasol to get some cap space, that they jumped at the Lakers' offer of Kwame Brown and some Universal Studios Hollywood annual passes. And here they sit, the team with the most money to spend, and no one even discusses them. The Grizzlies are the new Clippers.) As much fun as it would be to make a run at Andre Iguodala, the Clippers clearly need someone to play power forward. Thornton can get some minutes there, but he can't be the starter. And we know what it's like to have Tim Thomas be your starting power forward. So it would seem that something needs to be done.
The good news is that cap space gives the team a lot of options. Obviously they can try to sign a free agent. But they can also use their cap space to make unbalanced trades. Any team looking to shed money might be willing to send a promising power forward to the Clippers (provided the Clippers also take an ugly contract).
So what are the options:
The big name RFAs
Josh Smith - Not a true power forward, so if we're looking for someone to guard Amare Stoudemire and LaMarcus Aldridge, this is probably not the guy. On the other hand, a running Clippers team, with Baron Davis leading the break and Thornton and Smith finishing lobs, could be a lot of fun and pretty dangerous. And Smith and Kaman were second and third in the league in blocked shots per game last season, so these Clippers could certainly defend the rim. The biggest problem is that Atlanta is likely to match any reasonable offer. So the offer will have to be unreasonable.
Emeka Okafor - He's an almost immediate replacement of Brand's rebounding and shot blocking, and probably a better on-the-ball defender. After a season of watching the Generic Clippers get outrebounded (badly) every night, I think I would be willing to put up with Okafor's limited offensive skills. But Charlotte offered him $12M per last summer. How much would it take to get him to LA? And is he worth a huge contract, when he's not a good scorer, and he's injury-prone?
Andris Biedrins - Another terrific rebounder and defender, I tend to think he duplicates Kaman a little too much. If Smith is going to have trouble guarding the big PFs in the West, wouldn't a Biedrins / Kaman front line have trouble guarding the quick ones? Or the shooters? Which guy do you want chasing Okur off the three point line? Which one guards David West?
Lesser Free Agents
Craig Smith - Does this guy remind anyone else of Elton Brand? Undersized, no neck. He still seems to find a way to score. Maybe he's a stretch as a starter, but I kind of like the guy, and he could probably be had on the cheap. The Wolves have Kevin Love now.
Kurt Thomas - Thomas would be fine to hold down the fort for a season. But he's certainly not a long term solution, or an exciting addition. It's also highly doubtful that Thomas would want to join a longshot like the Clippers at this point in his career. He'll likely sign with a team with championship aspirations.
PJ Brown - Ditto.
Big name Trade targets
Shawn Marion - Marion probably doesn't figure in Miami's Wade / Beasley future. The Clippers need a power forward now. It could work. Marion is clearly undersized as a power forward, but of course they said that for years in Phoenix and he just continued to put up numbers. He would struggle against big 4s, but he'd also make them work on the other end. He can certainly rebound and defend, and if the Baron Davis era Clippers are a running team, well he's got some experience with that also. He's got a huge final year on his contract, but the Clippers could fit it by sending back Tim Thomas and generating a big trade exception for the Heat. The Heat would save some money this season, still have an $11M trade exception to work with now, and Thomas' $6M expiring deal to work with next season. The Heat will probably want a future first rounder to make this happen. The good news about a Marion deal is that it's a rent to own. If it doesn't work out, you let him walk next summer and you're right back in the free agency market next summer.
Zach Randolph - Randolph's contract is grotesque. He is owed $48M over the next three seasons. But he can score, he can rebound, and he is available. Really, really available. The Knicks want nothing more than to clear cap space for 2010, and Randolph's contract looks almost immovable right now. If the Clippers were willing to take him, the Knicks would probably include tickets to a couple of Broadway shows. His contract is a little to big to fit into the Clippers current cap space without sending a little something back, as long as the contract expired by 2010. That means it could be Cat Mobley, or Thomas, or Brevin Knight, or maybe someone they sign and trade. Randolph would be a huge mistake for the Clippers, in my opinion. His contract is too big, it runs too long, he doesn't play defense, and he's a head case. This would be a panic move.
Lesser Trade Targets
David Lee - While we're on the Knicks, we'll discuss Lee. Why would the Knicks consider trading Lee, who looks like one of their only decent building blocks? As the incentive to get a team to take one of their ugly contracts. If the Clippers were willing to take Jared Jeffries, freeing up almost $7M for New York to throw at LeBron in 2010, I think the Knicks would include Lee to get it done. Bear in mind that Lee is entering the final season of his rookie contract. If the Knicks really like him, they'll have to pay to keep him, which means they'll have to find even more salary to shed elsewhere. I think it's easier for them to just package Lee with some deadweight and ship him out. I would be loathe to take back Jeffries - but maybe the Knicks are motivated enough to make a better deal with the Clippers. I'd jump at Lee and Jamal Crawford for Cat Mobley.
Udonis Haslem - Somewhere between the rookie contract of Lee and the max contracts of Marion and Randolph is Haslem at 2 years and just under $14M. He's a solid if unspectacular player, who would seem to be in the way a bit with the arrival of Michael Beasley in South Florida. He's got enough range on that little jumper to keep the Kaman double-teamers a little bit honest, and he's a good rebounder and defender. I don't have much of a feel for what it would take to get this deal done, but there's little downside to it for the Clippers if they don't have to give up too much. The best case is that he comes in and does a good job. The worst case is that he doesn't fit, and he becomes a $7M expiring contract (along with those of Mobley and Thomas) next year.
There are of course other options, but the above list gives you an idea of the spectrum. If nothing is done, the Clippers will have a lot of problems this season. Tim Thomas, Josh Powell, Al Thornton, Paul Davis. None of these guys are legitimate NBA starting power forwards. Remember that the Clippers went from one of the best rebounding teams in the league to one of the worst when they first became generic. Not that they are permanently generic, they have to address this issue. If not, it will be a long and unsuccessful season.
Sofoklis Schortsianitis, MBFGC, is still out there, and frankly, if this isn't the time to bring him over to the US, I'm not sure when is. His struggles with his weight reached melodramatic heights last year, with his Greek team eventually shipping him off to a fat farm health spa. But he went, he lost at least 50 pounds (more according to some reports) and he's back playing with the Greek national team again. Why not sign him?
And then there's DeAndre Jordan. He's only 19, but if we're talking about putting guys like Biedrins or Okafor next to Kaman, then I suppose it's possible that Jordan could be the answer. I don't think anyone thinks he's ready now. But he has an NBA body, and he's certainly got something to prove after dropping from the lottery to the second round in the draft. We'll start finding out a little in summer league, but is it possible that Kaman and Jordan are a twin towers pair for the future?
As for the potential acquisitions, I would be happy to have either Smith or Okafor, but I'm not optimistic that they can be had. Just say no to Randolph. That would be a big mistake. Marion is a nice band aid if you don't have to give up too much, and the same could be said for Haslem.
But my top choice, surprisingly, is David Lee. He's a GREAT rebounder, plays with incredible energy, and does nothing to hurt you. He'd have to be re-signed next year, but he'd be an RFA, and I doubt teams are going to offer more than the MLE to him, which means he'd end up costing less than Haslem the next season, and then only if the Clippers like him and want to keep him.
And there's always Boozer and Lamar next summer.
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Funny
we just debated the whole Lee thing on a Fan Post. I also think Lee is an option, especially if the Clips take Crawford or Jeffries.
I agree no Randolph. No Eddy Curry, either. It is Lee or Bust for NY.
I never really thought much about Haslem. He would be servicable. And he wouldn’t cost much. The Clippers would still need to find another piece, though.
What about Carl Landry?
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Jul 11, 2008 12:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Landry not an option
Great D and rebounding, but no offense at all and he would not pull the double teams away from Kaman.
by daclipjoint on Jul 11, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Lee and Jamal Crawford for Cat Mobley"
do that in a second!!! You would probably have to give up some lottery protected picks though… hey if the clips did that, would they still have cap space?
by cantthinkofagoodname on Jul 11, 2008 12:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good work
I remember seeing somewhere that the Knicks were ready to trade Lee, a good way to get an expiring 2010 contract. He’s a fan favorite and a good player, but there’s just no way they want to spend the money to sign him as an RFA. So he’s a good target.
I don’t know the Knicks strategy for Randolph. All I know is that the Clips need to stay far, far away from him.
I’d also like to see you consider the possibility of a center in the mix. Okafor and Biedrins seem like college centers/NBA pf/centers any way, and Dunleavy has often talked about Kaman as a virtual power forward with his mobility and speed. Kaman has spent a lot of time guarding Novitzki and Duncan and some of the other full-bodied PFs, and he’ll be doing even more of it. I’m pretty excited about Kaman playing with Novitzki every day for a month, not that he needs to start bombing 3s off the dribble, but it could be amusing if they become buddies and Novitzki’s flow in the game rubs off on him a little.
I’m curious about Jordan as the long-term answer—the ability of Jordan and Kaman to play together. If Jordan can walk and chew gum at the same time, he fills the slot of the center to play alongside Kaman right away. But I don’t mind a short deal with Kurt Thomas either, but the Clips would still need somebody else. Just some guy who is a starting center type could shift things in an interesting way for the Clips.
When you get into David Lee and Haslem, I know you’re a couple of clear cuts above Josh Powell, but I’m not sure just how big the gap is. There’s also Davis and Fazekas.
My current choice is the Marion rental. I wouldn’t want to give away more picks than necessary.
But the Knick guys (besides Randolph) are interesting, and the Clips should definitely be waving Thomas and Mobley in front of them.
I think I get NBA TV—have to check soon. Really pysched if I can get a chance to see all of the new guys, and old favorite Fazeke.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 11, 2008 1:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait
for the game tonight either. Hopefully we will be able to see how “ready” Jordan is to actually playing in the NBA. He might be the ultimate answer to FElton, but that is a lot to expect out of a second round pick.
I am going with the Marion deal being option #1 right now. Dude can play, as we all know, and his size hasn’t been that big of a problem on D because he causes so many mismatches on the opposite end. And the best part is if it doesn’t work out, what did it cost the Clippers…some draft picks? The Mobley for Crawford/Lee trade would be nice too…although, I kinda want to see Gordon learn a little from Mobley, then take the reigns from him….sort of like what we were HOPING to see with the transition between Cassell and SLivie…which we all know imploded on itself. (pun intended)
by Clip Show on Jul 11, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marion should be the guy
but there will be more competition in next years free agent market for guys like him and Boozer.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Jul 11, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All things considered...
I think that is a small risk in the grand scheme of things. If things go great next year…meaning playoff birth, making it to the conference semi finals or even the finals…why wouldnt he want to come back. If the Clippers stink again…then he wasn’t the answer anyway….go after boozer?....or just sit tight and go after Bosh the year after?
by Clip Show on Jul 11, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forget...
We are never safe. Players seem to leave the Clips all the time. I think it is gonna take us the entire Baron Davis era to shake this stigma…
by Newtybar on Jul 11, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree Newty
If the Clips get Marion and keep tinkering with Thomas, Mobley, etc., they will be a playoff team and highly competitive and no one is going to be rushing to leave. The trick is to make a fair deal, not to overpay, and there can also be chemistry issues with Marion, as there were in Phoenix.
But this is like the uberrental, much bigger than the one-years with Kittles and Cassell. Kittles didn’t work and it was over very quickly, and Cassell worked very well.
Clip Show: I was going to let “taking the reigns” (reins) slide, obviously, common error, but “playoff birth” has to garner a shout out. Pretty good one.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 11, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
puke
IF they got marion, that leaves the with a big three of BD, marion, kaman. And nothing else after that.
A roster like that is not going to steal a playoff spot away from the other teams in that 7th, 8th, 9th 10th range (portland, denver, dallas, pho)
the word ‘playoffs’ should be banned from this blog, unless it concludes these words “the clippers will not be in the _“
by PippenAintEasy on Jul 11, 2008 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, right
“we still have thornton and gordon”
playoffs!? playoffs?! I just hope you can win a game
by PippenAintEasy on Jul 12, 2008 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice catch...
maybe I should have called it a “playoff re-birth”...because thats what it will be in the new BD era….birth/berth…got it….
by Clip Show on Jul 12, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cnnsi is reporting we tried to take randolph off the knicks hands and they rebuffed us.. d’antoni feels strongly about him and simply wont give him away
by cliprboy on Jul 11, 2008 1:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good news then...
We don’t want him, and they won’t give him to us…perfect.
by Clip Show on Jul 11, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's that timing thing again, Steve
This is bad news, really. Not that we didn’t get Randolph (that part I like), but the fact that the Clippers were looking in that direction.
Was Zach Randolph really what they thought would be best?
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Jul 11, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zach
does fill the scoring hole FElton left behind, and if memory serves, he ALWAYS torched the Clippers whether he was with NYK or Portland. I can see why management would consider him…but I see your concern. Looks like the Clips were offering cap relief ONLY in the deal..which is interesting…basically just buying him from the Knicks…maybe this is just a sign of things to come…like the same offer for Marion? We can only hope….
by Clip Show on Jul 11, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe that
Unless we were trying to get him for absolutely nothing. Sounds like spin to me—a plant for them to say D’Antoni likes Randolph and wants to keep him for a couple of reasons.
The Knick fans hate Randolph and he has a bad contract. He puts up numbers and has good nights but he doesn’t win games and he’s a horrible team guy. They’re stuck with him.
In the meantime, they do have to get rid of fan favorite, hustling David Lee, because they can’t give him a new deal and keep their capspace campaign alive.
And if Randolph does flourish under D’Antoni (doubtful—Chris Duhon ain’t Steve Nash), it’s a better lineup to woo the big free agent.
The Clips may have inquired, but they haven’t made their move yet, so it’s not a true statement.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 11, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reports indicate that the Clips and Knicks are still talking
Is it about Z-bo or someone else?
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Jul 12, 2008 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well i dont think we can realistically get okafor or josh smith so we r running out of options unless we can find someway to get marion
by cliprboy on Jul 11, 2008 1:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
so guys... what do you think of this...
i doubt the knicks give up crawford since he seems at elast decent for them.
but say it took taking back i dont know marbury , to get lee and say we ship them cat.
works under the cap i think. marbury is huge money.
by hans007 on Jul 11, 2008 1:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If Lee is included?
I don’t love it, but I don’t hate it. He does come off the books next year, but then there would be a big hole at the 2.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Jul 11, 2008 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The new world order
I feel like Starbury is especially bad new is the Baron Davis era.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Jul 11, 2008 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is bad news, period
but for one year? Possible.
Last resort. There are better options.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Jul 11, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marbury getting a buyout
Doesn’t have anything to do with doing a deal with the Knicks. And with BD, the Clips don’t need him at all.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 11, 2008 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another door
Rockets and Pistons talking trade.
Not alot of info at the link, but to get TMac you have to be able to take on $21.1M.
That’s a lot of salary for Detroit to need to send out. The Clippers should be willing to take on McDyess and a 1st rounder (from either Detroit or Houston really) to help facilitate this…
Rip (or Billups or Wallace) to the Rockets/TMac to the Pistons/McDyess to Clippers works. The Clippers would then still have some money to play with.
Just another idea for a bandaid, if necessary, that gains a pick instead of costs one.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Jul 11, 2008 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok
McDyess reunion is doable. (I can’t help thinking how fun it would be for Sheed and Dunleavy to get back together).
Just because you can come up with this doesn’t mean that NBA executives can. This is probaly above the Clippers suits’ paygrade.
But we should give Dumars a call.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Jul 11, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love McDyess but
He is old and no way does he come close to replacing FElton’s 20/10 – 12/7 maybe. He does have nice mid-range jumper that would ease the pressure on Kaman double teams, but his knees are suspect and is OLD in hoopsyears.
by daclipjoint on Jul 11, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No question he's not the home run
But sometimes you have to know when its time to bunt and advance the runner.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Jul 11, 2008 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do doubt
you are right. But McDyess would be a last resort in my book. I would rather give Paul Davis a shot to develop into a solid PF than spend the $ on Antonio. I have always loved AD’s game and if his knees had held up he would have been a perenial all star, but alas …..
by daclipjoint on Jul 11, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think Okafor would be best
But it dosen’t seem like that is going to happen. So I would take Lee as second option he seems pretty good to me and we could always not resign him if he dosen’t turn out well.
by bestclipfan on Jul 11, 2008 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
David Lee would be excellent.
But remember the caveat: Love Lee, love Randolph/Curry/Marbury/Jerome are-you-kidding-me James.
by OhMeOhMy on Jul 11, 2008 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes
you have to take a liffle chaff with the wheat, or something like that.
by daclipjoint on Jul 11, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sean May
couldn’t we pick us Sean May cheap? I know he is coming off an injury, but he has shown signs of being a more than decent PF and I bet the Bobcats would let him go for Tim Thomas’ expiring salary. Just a thought …...
by daclipjoint on Jul 11, 2008 4:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sean May isn't very likely
The Bobcats are pretty thin at PF. If May’s knees can handle the minutes, he will probably be Charlotte’s starting PF. I don’t think the Bobcats want Tim Thomas as a starter any more than the Clippers do.
by ClipCat on Jul 12, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
While
reading the column I said to myself that Lee would be my 1st choice and so it was cool to see that CS came to the same conclusion.
by Phil Gurnee on Jul 11, 2008 5:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
reply
I still think it is sad that we are realistically debating over a lot of these back-up pf’s. If we don’t land smith or okafor our goosed is cooked for this season for sure. If we do land a lee/haslem type player our only goal would be .500 ball and thats just plain sad.
by Spontane on Jul 11, 2008 5:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Marion
But I agree—let’s not move on to the backups quite so quickly. Even Lee isn’t a real starter.
And McDyess isn’t either, not anymore—McDyess is a much better version of Tim Thomas, similar to PJ Brown, but he’s not the guy the Clips want starting every night all season.
Kurt Thomas is a starter.
I need to take a look at the Knicks for a second.
John R is just too good-picking up McDyess with a sacrifice bunt (and I loved the analogy, awesome), would be great, and getting a pick would be great too-something else the Clips can do with their flexibility.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 11, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you all underestimate Lee
This guy is a for-sure starter. The only reason you guys are talking like he’s a backup is because Isaiah was too stupid to play him. Although his post game is weak, we really don’t need a go-to scorer with our current roster. You’ve all seen how productive Baron has made unskilled big men (See Biedrins, Magloire, etc). The kid is explosive and athletic enough to run with Baron and would instantly instill life into a franchise that desperately needs exactly that.
Also, i wouldn’t be so quick to say .500 ball. I know BD’s %s are terrible and the effectiveness of his game is debateable, but he’s been a winner everywhere he’s went. Even with supposedly weak supporting casts, he’s won. The guy just makes everybody around him better.
Giving up a 1st to overpay Marion for one year would be a big mistake IMO. I say we go for the bandaid fix in Lee, Haslem, and Craig Smith, in that order. Randolph would be awful.
by BtheKUTA on Jul 11, 2008 5:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not underestimating him
Just saying that he hasn’t been a starter—yet.
I’m not saying .500 ball—there’s no way to tell yet.
The Clips have the Minnesota first that they can give to Miami. Miami doesn’t want to give Marion away, but it would be good for them if he is off their books, and they can keep Haslem. We’ll see. Clips definitely don’t want to give up too much to pay a very high rent on a guy for one year.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 11, 2008 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Start DeAndre Jordan
Screw it. Might as well see what the kid’s got. He’ll at least supply defense.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Jul 11, 2008 8:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's on the roster
After that first summer league game, there is no doubt he’s going to be the #12 or #13 player. He’s on the roster, and the thing to look at will be how good he is in March and April, kind of like Thornton—except he’s going to have far less playing time.
My impression from watching him is that we have to think of his as if he was drafted #10 or #12 (Korolev, who was impressive—more on him elsewhere) or #14 (Thornton). DeAndre Jordan falling to the Clips in the 2nd round is very much like Thornton falling to #14, although he’s a young big man and a project, but that is one high draft pick-worthy young physical specimen and basketball player, no doubt.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 11, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Artest
The dood could probably be had on the cheap. And I bet he could handle PFs all day. Clipper Nation could use a little CRAZY.
by Mr. Irrelevant on Jul 11, 2008 9:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
I almost included Ron-Ron on the original list. But I’m trying to focus on 4’s and he’s not really that. Yes, he can defend almost anybody, but he’s not a great rebounder and I think rebounding is probably priority number 1. I’m intrigued by it because he’s available, and he’s very, very talented. But I think you have to let him play 3, mover Thornton to the 4, and I think you get killed on the boards.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 11, 2008 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take him - what do we have to lose?
He’s a great rebounding SF.
by Jax on Jul 12, 2008 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Clippersteve...
The times I have watched Biedrins in San Antonio, I can tell you that he does not lack in the quickness department. He is, to be sure, a big man who is on a team on which he plays a very specific (and rare…) role of a big with legs like a small. Most people know that Tim Duncan is absolutely unequalled in a half court game, but Biedrins managed to show that he can be of use when he is able to get down court before the D can reset. This was even more evident given San Antonio’s calling card as a great transitionally defensive team. They don’t get beat down the court, which is why they don’t lose to the Phoenix Suns in the playoffs.
All said, I would want Biedrins if I suspected that I could get him to duplicate his role/performance on his new team. I think that, in a sellers market like we see in the ‘08 FA market, he would be considered a good if not highly serviceable addition to a team’s stable of bigs.
Also, being a Spurs/Clips fan in my crowd of annoying and stupid Mavs fans, I can tell you that they also didn’t like Biedrins in the now infamous ‘07 first round. He wasn’t a prolific scorer by any means, but his combination of size and mobility only served to expose the Mavs further.
At the end of the day, I realize that you, perhaps unfortunately, aren’t the Clips GM and cannot sign him, but I just wanted to alert you to the fact that he (especially at a young age) would be someone I would want on either of my teams.
by scrappy-doo on Jul 11, 2008 10:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
about the prospect of guarding lamarcus aldridge
no one you get will be able to guard that beast.
by PippenAintEasy on Jul 11, 2008 11:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You know nothing
Kaman can guard Aldridge, and he’s not even going to be the first option.
And Gordon and Mobley can both guard Brandon Roy, by the way. And guarding Baron Davis will be… some guy. A Euro, a small no-defense tweener who isn’t much of a pg, or a journeyman.
But I like Portland. I just don’t like their know nothing trolls.
You might say that Kaman will have his hands full with Greg Oden, but methinks DeAndre Jordan can do what Oden does, and he’s also able to run up and down the floor, practice, and play.
This is a Clippers website. You’re welcome to be here if you want to talk about your team and our team in an intelligent way. Or you can be an idiot.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 12, 2008 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"talk about your team in an intelligent way"
you say this right after you say “DeAndre Jordan can do what Oden does”
that is disgusting
by PippenAintEasy on Jul 12, 2008 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually ...
Jordan can do what Oden does. He can rebound, block, and dunk. All things Oden does. The only things Oden does. I never understood why Jordan got compared to Dwight Howard but Oden was compared to guys like Shaq and Russell. Unless I’m mistaken, Shaq only dunks as well as giving a little spinning 5-foot hook and Russell didn’t really have all that reliable of a jumper. I don’t need a center who can drain 20 footers. The Jazz have that. How’s that worked out?
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Jul 12, 2008 3:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
moron
every player in the nba can rebound, block and dunk. So everyone is everyone.
Oden dominates. Jordan does not dominate. Thus, jordan can not do what oden does
by PippenAintEasy on Jul 12, 2008 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oden does have one special ability
He walks in a circle cause his legs are different lengths.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Jul 12, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does Oden do?
Except not play basketball?
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Jul 12, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never seen Zhiv get so worked up about a blogger b/4
Refreshing
by Jax on Jul 12, 2008 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is...
Oden has been motivated by an up-and-coming Trailblazers squad, coming off a serious injury and living up to being the #1 pick (I’m sure he doesn’t wanna end up as the next Bowie), and working out with Bill Walton and Russell.
Jordan is probably motivated by being picked so late, but I question whether it’ll show. I mean, his press conference showed that he was everything but ecstatic to be playing for the Clips… Well, we saw what being snubbed did to AT12, but Al’s a gym rat. From what I’ve heard, Jordan has the Beasley attitude.
by Redmosa on Jul 12, 2008 4:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hit a nerve with Oden
I’ll start by saying I hope that Oden and Bynum can both come back and have great, healthy NBA careers. And I also hope that the unhappy late night troll has packed up and moved on.
The Blazers have to have some insecurity about Oden and what he is going to be able to do. So we’ll see. They’ve built a good squad, seem dynamic in their approach, and have nice key pieces in Roy and Aldridge.
After seeing him play in a limited summer league sample of just a few minutes, Jordan managed to show that he’s the type of player that the Clippers or some other team could have easily drafted and #7 and they would be very nervous about it, but optimism would be running high after last night. It’s pretty obvious that he can do what a basic athletic big guy can do on the court, protect the rim, grab rebounds, get some dunks. He’s pretty much the same kid Bynum was when he was drafted at #10 or whatever it was, but older, and obviously he has better knees than Oden or Bynum. The Amazing Fazekas casts a shadow playing next to Jordan, because NF has spectacular hands and positioning skills and a soft touch around the basket, But Jordan looked as good as anyone could have hoped, and he looked like a young lottery pick project.
I think his attitude will be affected by the new opportunity of FElton’s Falk you. Now there is a clear roster spot and role for him on the team, and these Clipper summer league games are suddenly very serious business. The Clippers need help, and they’re going to take it where they can get it. It’s worth pondering what Jordan might have contributed last year, for instance. He would have gotten plenty of minutes as the season went along. At any rate, it may be because Gordon was making his debut and Thornton and Fazekas were out there, but Jordan was focused and playing hard. Beasley’s attitude is based on the fact that he knows he’s an outstanding basketball player who can control the game on both ends of the floor, and he plans to enjoy it. Jordan may have been lackadaisical and thinking that he could take time to grow into his skills, but it seemed like last night he realized that he had just joined a hungry, even desperate, professional organization that is going to demand intensity from its players. Thornton, Gordon, and Fazekas got it—this was no scrub game like the one before, like a couple of players trying to get a barely-existent spot on the Lakers (can’t call my man Lorenzo a scrub) and set the tone, and Jordan was right there, playing extremely hard. I think the circumstances will affect his motivation and learning and growth curve. He’s going to play a little bit, and it will be fun to check back in with him during the pre-season.
Again, it’s helpful to think of Jordan as a lower level lottery pick and set xpectations accordingly. If not for the FElton Falk up, he could well be mothballed in the D-League. But he’s got too much physical talent and the Clips are too needy now for that to happen. He’s not going to be an instant saviour by a long shot, but we can raise our expectations considerably and he should be able to meet them pretty easily.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 12, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take a shot with Krstic, Herrmann?
First of all, i’m absolutely with the people who do not want any part of Zach Randolph, as i don’t see him ever being a starter on a winning team. He’s not playing defense and is also a black hole on offense, which is something i don’t see working with Davis, Kaman, Gordon and Thornton around.
As far as those other options goes. I think we should sign either Smith or Okafor to an offer sheet and see what happens. If their team does not match, then fine, we’ve got our new pf. If they do match, then i’d go another route.
Of course there are some risks, but i’d then try to go for Nenad Krstic sign him to an offer sheet, where he agrees to something that makes sense for both sides, which would be a 2 – 3 year deal for something around the MLE. Krstic has a nice mid range game and could create some space down low for Kaman.
Another guy we should take a look at, IMO, is Walter Herrmann. He probably could be had on the cheap and would be a nice back up at the 3/4 positions.
by Silvio on Jul 12, 2008 9:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Epic Fail...
Guillermo Diaz = Al Thornton?
http://www.nba.com/summerleague2008/players/index.jsp?player=guillermo_diaz
by Redmosa on Jul 12, 2008 11:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
David Lee
I like Lee a lot—he’s got that scrappy attitude our teams have lacked too often. But how much do you think his next contract would cost?
And is his agent David Falk?
by pipedreams on Jul 12, 2008 12:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Can MDsr coach an uptempo style for a whole season?
Our comments have focused on the players and except for Okofor, most of those mentioned imply a running style.
MDsr loves to coach from the bench , regularly calling out plays ect…..
I ask those more learned than I, CS,CZ John R ect…...Is there any evidence that MDsr can effectively coach that uptempo style for more than a few games?
by 69knicks on Jul 12, 2008 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Z Bo
I like the guy. I know that he is overpaid and lazy sometimes. But I think that he puts up good numbers and can do some good things. Looking realistically at the alternatives I don’t think that Z Bo is a terrible idea. What if we sign Okafor or Smith and their teams match and we’re left with nothing? That is a distinct possibility and it would take us 7 days to find out. Z Bo is a double-double machine and Dunleavy has brought good efforts out of him in Portland. My memory is slipping right now….Dunleavy did coach Z Bo in Portland right? I could be mistaken.
And…I like Dunleavy. Before he got here, the Clips had little respect. At least he is bringing respectability to the team. We’re spending money. I don’t blame him for the freak accident that Livy went through. That injury set us back a great deal too. If Livy continued to develop like he was…that draft pick would be justified. All in all, I am glad that Dunleavy is our coach. A lot of things that have gone wrong have been injury related. He’s done a pretty solid job all things considered. I’m still steaming that Brand is gone…but it’s time to move forward.
by Mr. Irrelevant on Jul 12, 2008 6:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Now I remember....
I was trying to remember the timeline of Dunleavy and the Trailblazers. I couldn’t remember if Randolph played there in Dunleavy’s time. Here’s what I found: 2000-01 was the year the Blazers won fifty and took the Lakers to seven games in the conference finals… which was essentially a battle between the two best teams in the NBA. Now, we all remember that game… Blazers up by like fifty and the Lakers came back, no time out from Dunleavy… that year, that team. But Dunleavy definitely brought that team a long way, young ‘Sheed, too crazy, Stoudamire, too small, Sabonis on one leg, Dale Davis is old, Steve Smith is old, they were ancient, experienced… and unlikely. But I think Dunleavy earns real credit for getting that team as far as he did.
And here’s my point (finally), that summer DUNLEAVY DRAFTS ZACH RANDOLPH! He DRAFTED the guy! And we’ve seen how Dunleavy falls in love with players and sticks with them and loves them forever. They’re his guys to the end of time! Zach Randolph is a Dunleavy guy!
Of course, Dunleavy gets fired the next year (mid year?) after that team is just too old and they’re already working hard on that “Jailblazer” rep. Whatever. Bob Whitsitt was in the GM chair and he was nuts anyway.
But now the potential trade with the Knicks makes some sense to me. He’s bringing back one of his guys.
by swamigusto on Jul 12, 2008 7:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you've got it mixed up
that was the 1999-2000 season where the lakers and blazers met, not 00-01. If im not mistaken, dunleavy was fired the year after that, after the 00-01 season, so I doubt he had a hand in drafting z bo.
by clipschamps on Jul 12, 2008 11:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, my bad
Bad memory, bad research. It was the next year Dunleavy got fired in May, after Blazers bowed out in first round. Whitsitt and Cheeks drafted Randolph in June. My apologies.
by swamigusto on Jul 13, 2008 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clipper fans
I’m a longtime (very very longtime) Clipper fan but a recent reader of this blog, and it’s astounding and incredible how much overall nba knowledge Clipper fans have. After quickly reading other blogs, it’s refreshing to see CS and the clipper faithful write articles/comments that show an impressive and objective base of knowledge about the nba.
Reminds me of a funny story – I was studying for a test last year when I overheard a Laker fan on his cell phone right after the Gasol trade say, “Hey, we just traded for some guy. Named Paul Gascle. Supposed to be a good international player from Africa or something. What you think?”
by BtheKUTA on Jul 13, 2008 4:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You are totally correct
Clippers fans know basketball.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Jul 13, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zach Could Make Sense If ....
Zach Randolph is worth it if the deal is for both Cuttino and Mobley. That would allow the team to keep their young talent and their cap space while filling a hole and upgrading the team. Zach only has one more year than those two on his contract so it isn’t a big risk financially. The leftover funds can be used on a quality wing like Iggy or Deng or a trade for someone else.
If it’s a package other than Cuttino/Thomas I’m not in for that. That’s a waste of cap space. If it’s only one of the two it takes too much of the cap flexibility away so no deal. Zach is a good player but he isn’t a franchise changing player, his defense and self-involved offense stops him from being that. I’m okay giving up any of the youngsters outside of Gordon/Thornton or second round picks. Don’t want to give up a first round pick but if it were lottery protected it’s probably not a deal breaker. I’d like to get rid of Mobley and Thomas, at their pay level they’re dead weight.
by Dave W on Jul 13, 2008 6:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Knicks
I’m not sure the Knicks do it for those two. According to “7 seconds or less” D’Antoni was no fan of Tim Thomas (hard to figure that any coach would be). Yes, the clear cap space for 2010 – but is it worth it to them? Not sure.
Also, although I’m not crazy about Cat, and very apathetic about Thomas, they do provide depth currently. Gordon’s not ready to start – if you trade Cat, who’s the starting SG? Two rotation players for Randolph doesn’t make sense to me in the short term, or in the long term.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 13, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We would be thin at SG/SF
While unloading TT and Cat would sound fun, it would defintely leave the CLips thin at these two positions. Freak, Eric Gordon is already injured after 2 summer league games. I’m not sure how the contracts match up and how much Cap space the Clips have left to pursue other SG/SF’s out there, but, the sensible/conservative method would be to wait till next year when the two are in their last years of their contract and try to add via trade or wait till the contracts expire. No point in unloading TT and Cat only to load up on more/worse bad contracts.
With that said, Zach Randolph is an offensive monster….possilbly a better offensive game than even EB. There shouldn’t be any fall-off in quality between the two. Defense is another issue, but it can work if Kaman stays heathy and D Jordan becomes a somewhat decent shotblocker…we’ll see where the Clips go.
I love LAC.
by oasisman on Jul 14, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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