The price of GS keeping Kaz
by Clip Show on Jul 25, 2008 8:49 AM PDT
Email
PrintLooks like the Warriors have resigned Ellis...but are running into problems with Beidrins now....article says he is looking for Kaman $$....really?....who does this guy think he is? $11mil per? Could we see another YOUNG player go to Europe for more $$?
Anyway, so with the Warriors matching Azu's offer (and signing Maggette as well), it looks like they will NOT be able to resign Beidrins now. Interesting how this all works out.....so in the end, do the Clippers get the last laugh? I would have to say yes...
53 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think he will get his money and they will keep him
$10M per is MORE than fair.
But if they lose him, the Warriors become little more than a sideshow. They might win any given game, but there won’t be much consistency there. They might blow out the Lakers by 20 and then lose to the Nets by 30 the next night.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
The more I think about it though...
why wouldn’t Andris want to go and play back home, for more money? If contract negotiations get drawn out, then going home should get that much more attractive. Do the W’s have $10mil per year left under the salary cap?
If he does go to europe though, GS will be worse off…they will win games now and then…but not consistently, and definitely not enough to make the playoffs. They could be a reincarnation of the 01-02 Clippers who could win at home..but were dismal on the road.
The cap
They don’t need to have money under the cap, they would have Bird rights so they can pay whatever they want.
The only question is, do they want? They should. But why the hold up is a good question. If I am Biedrins I go the first place that puts $10M per in front of me.
But if they don’t keep him, they are capped out. So that’s another strong indicator for keeping him.
This should be a no brainer for the Warriors.
Now the tax…thats a different story. They will be right up there against it giving it a little kiss. So that might be why they don’t want to go the full 10M.
But Biedrins has all the cards if he really has a $10M per offer from elsewhere. The Warriors would need him much more than he would need the Warriors.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Interesting...
The Latvia native is drawing strong interest in a couple of Russian clubs, according to the source, who added that teams are willing to sign him for 3-5 years for what amounts to more than $10 million per year.
I am assuming we are talking US dollars here…but is that before or after taxes?...MORE than $10mil per year?...AND closer to home…W’s better pony up or they are going to be in trouble.
Expanded thought
If they lost him, the 4 best players from their 06-07 team would be gone, replaced with only Maggette and Turiaf.
Regardless of one’s feelings about Maggs, that’s just not getting it done. They really need to pay him.
29 teams have to be drooling at the thought of Ellis, Maggette, Jackson and Harrington all going iso and hucking dubious shots with only Turiaf, a pretty average rebounder, around the hoop.
Wait, I think I just described Nellieball. Nevermind.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
More data
Biedrins vs Camby head-to-head. They basically wash each other out.
He shouldn’t demand Kaman money, he should demand Camby money.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Assists and steals are overwhelming in Camby's favor, which I like
FG% is overwhelming in Biedrins favor. AB had slightly more blocks, which is a surprise. Pts. and rebs about the same.
F-Elton!
The FG% is misleading
Andres cannot shoot, and only dunks. Camby can draw bigs away from the basket wtih his jumper. Camby is far better IMO.
You're right
Biedrins shoots right next to the hoop. Camby launches jumpers.
The FG% is not an indication of their effectiveness as players, but it is funny how big the gap is.
I was more impressed with the assists and steals of Camby.
F-Elton!
But thats point
He gets as many shots as Camby, but they are all dunks.
If a dude can get lots of dunks, and is smart enough to only take those dunks, its a beautiful thing.
Who does Biedrins need to draw away from the basket for? Its not like Harrington is also clogging up the middle.
He’s the perfect C for their system. He is really really great at doing a few things. The exact few things they need. Cleaning up garbage and finishing easy buckets.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
I would say AB is more of a C than Camby in that regard
Camby’s game offensively is more on the perimeter. I think he will do fine as a PF.
F-Elton!
My further thoughts
This is why you need more than just statistics, numbers, to properly evaluate the value of players. Steals are huge from a center. The ability to shoot outside is also huge. Clearing the middle of bigs creates opportunities for slashers and even guards to get to the hoop unabated. Perfect for someone like Maggette and also for Ellis.
We can all assume Camby can dunk lust like Biedrins if he wants to. A player who can only dunk cannot move other bigs away from the basket to create opportunities on the offensive end for others. Another thing, Biedrens cannot shoot free throws. So you can Hack a shaq him, which isn’t that hard, because you’ll know where he’ll be. Camby has a much better FT%.
I like Biedrins, but he’s no Camby.
Also, Bidrins is not not the perfect C for their system. Nellie adopts his system to the strengths of the players he has. Big difference from some other coaches.
True about Biedrens’ age.
Except
As stats tell us…
Camby shoots less than 38% on jumpers. So he cannot really shoot from outside, he just likes to try, as evidenced by the fact that he takes 57% of his shots from outside.
And this is where not using stats fails. Sometimes our memory lies to us.
Camby was better than Biedrins last season. No question. But should the Warriors sign him to $10M per versus losing him? Also no question. If they don’t, they will find out precisely how valuable he was to their system.
And speaking of systems, you know what you get not valuing defense and rebounding? A sub-.500 record in the playoffs.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Our impression of Camby is that he always hits that jumper
but this is where Nuggets fans can be of help to us. They see him brick that shot a lot.
I am sure GSW fans can offer us insight on Davis, as we can let Philly fans know that EB has flaws, too.
F-Elton!
I would like to see the stats that suggest 38% FG% on all jumpers
That’s surprising to me. Is that anything other than a dunk? 20 footers or greater, or what.
At least Nellie gets to the playoffs. I would venture to guess that most people think he’s a fairly decent coach.
John R, please send us the link showing Camby at 38% FGs on
everything except dunks
You were rifght the first time
38% on jumpers, not everything but dunks
F-Elton!
Jax
Here’s the link.
82games.com. 57% of his shots were ‘jumpers’ and he shot 37.7% on them. Icky. Sure seems like he hits more than that against the Clips, doesn’t it? I remember a game in 06 where he was 9 for 9 in the first half.
Now, I can’t find the glossary on 82games that says what their definition of ‘jumper’ is. But the other categories are Dunks, Close, and Tip In. No matter how you slice it, that’s a lot of shots he’s taking while making way less than 40%.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Ooops
Here’s the link, for reals.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Very interesting data
so while, yes, 57% of his shots are jumpers, he only shoots 8 shots per game, so that is only 4.5 jumpers per game. Makes sense in the George Karl offense. And most of the jumpers (84%) come off of passes, catch and shoot.
Also, 19% of the time he is jacking up a shot early in the clock, but 75% of his shots come with 15 seconds or less remaining.
I’m sure some of that will change in the Dunleavy system, but ultimately, he is not what you would call a “great” jump shooter.
F-Elton!
Why is the ability to shoot from outside such a big deal??
Well I guess you will learn soon enough when you’ll see Baron jacking up shots like his life depends on it. Basketball is a TEAM game not a “who can hit a jumer on 40% basis” all night long. Think about it, wouldn’t you rather have AB with his high FG % than Curry or Randolph with their’s ability to shoot jumpers. Heck I can shoot a jumper or two so why not giving me the $$$? The point is I would take a guy who makes his shots(dunks,layups,putbacks or whatever you call it) on high % over a guy who can shoot but only average %.Basket is a basket no matter how you make it.
So if it's so easy
to have those FG numbers without a jumper(only dunk?) why doesen’t everybody do it???
Who said it's easy?
No one is denigrating Biedrins.
Yeah....
He is a good young player, but I honestly don’t think he’s worth breaking the bank over yet. I would happily take him for about 8-10m/year but anything above that to me would hurt the team in the long run.
I do think that the W’s will end up keeping him though and have it be something less then the Ellis contract.
"Lets get one thing straight, the only reason you are conscious right now is because I don't feel like carrying you." - Jack Bauer
"Consequences, Schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich." - Daffy Duck
Warrior Fan here... (easy, easy)
Actually, The Dubs are NOT in danger of losing Biedrins due to the Buikie Signing. We are not capped off as far as re signing our own RFA’s. We can go over as much as Mullin wants to and it will not affect our cap, given that it is to retain Biedrins, since he’s our own RFA.
This of course, doesnt say that we wont lose him to Euro. (Which I doubt will happen anywho)
ok, im outta here before the incoming fire! lol
peace guys!
I had the same thought...
This is really unrelated to Buike. They have Bird rights, and can pay whatever they want. The next issue would be the luxury tax threshold. I haven’t done all the math, but I think there’s plenty of room to go to $10M or $11M per and stay under the luxury tax. So the Buike money was the Buike money, and the Biedrins negotiation stands alone.
Having said that, the Kaman reference is interesting. Certainly, he’s not Kaman, because he has no discernible offensive game. But he does what he does extremely well. But ‘Kaman money’ is really the same thing as ‘Dalembert money’ and ‘Nene money’. In other words, this is what young bigs get paid, right or wrong. The Warriors should pay him in the $10-$11M range, and the only reason they’re trying not to is because there isn’t any competition. Except those pesky Russians!
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Shame on me...
I guess I was wrong for assuming the $$ for Azu would affect Beidrin’s $$. Forgot they had his Bird rights….and you say there is plenty of room under the luxury tax….so what’s the hold up? Hoopshype has tons of rumors regarding Andris, and almost of all of them mention the interest of Russian clubs….so that may be the only thing holding up the W’s signing him…they should just give him his money and not worry about it.
No shame...
What’s the hold up? They want a bargain. They’re not just going to give AB what he’s asking for, nor should the I suppose. But the worms squiggling all over the place came out of that can JChill opened the other day. Biedrins is from friggin’ Latvia – it used to be a part of the Soviet Union. AB no doubt speaks fluent Russian (or at least his parents did). Riga is like a suburb of Moscow (ok, not really, Russia is one big damn country.) But Riga is a lot closer to Moscow than it is to Oakland, that much is certain.
The Dubs had better wake up and realize that Dynamo, Khimki and CSKA are in a frenzy to spend money, and are willing to lose a lot of it to get top players. BTW, I saw that Dynamo is after Delonte West. All these RFA’s are ripe for the picking if their teams assume they have all the leverage, which is what’s happening with Biedrins right now.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Stands to reason...
My 9th grade social studies teacher was Latvian. I thought he had made the country up at the time, in the late 70s.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
The three Baltic States were all occupied (and largely destroyed) by the USSR
Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia. The Russians came in and plundered and took the key jobs and the power. I suppose Biedrins could go work in Russia, and would do so for enough money, but I strongly doubt that this would be his first choice.
Hoopshype and Shamsports are pretty aligned on this one.
About $37M before Ellis, Maggette and Azubuike. So thats going to be near $60M. Another $10M per (or worse $11M) for Beidrins and they are hurting bad. Right up against $70M means they are a rounding error here or there and paying the tax.
This may or may not be an interesting negotiation. Both sides definitely have a lot to lose. The Warriors particularly appear to be no win. Pay the tax and possible be worse than last season, or lose an important player and certainly be worse.
Unless Biedrins is largely bluffing about the European offers…
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
They're hurting, no doubt
It doesn’t necessarily help the fans unless the team eventually gets over the hump, but the struggles of teams like the Nuggets and the Dubs (and probably now the Mavs and the Suns) to compete while at the same time spending all the way to the luxury tax does sit in sharp contrast to the Clippers payroll, which is right at the cap, with cap space galore on the horizon in 2010.
Signing Ellis and Biedrins for $120M-$130M combined in the same off-season would scare the poop out of me if I was a Dubs fan. If these guy’s are great, then the core of the team is in place for six years. If not (and let’s face it, Ellis has to learn to play the toughest position in basketball and Biedrins, to put it mildly, can’t shoot)... then the core of the team is in place for six years, if you catch my meaning.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Very big bets, very big bets
But then, $5 blackjack just doesn’t have the thrill…
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
In some ways CS
Years of being cheap and being experienced at it helps the Clippers when every team in the league is money consience.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Hard to imagine...
he WOULD be bluffing….why wouldn’t he want to go home AND play for more money…and have a realchance at a European championship (or whatever they play for over there)....when over here, yeah, he gets some money, is still far from home, and has NO chance at winning a championship anytime in the near future. I hope he is reading this…..go home Andris…go home…
Bluffing in the sense that the offers actually exist...
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
I might be wrong
but are you affraid of Warriors next year since some of you have said we are going in the wrong direction? We are deep right now and this means we have A LOT of trade assets so don’t be suprised for us to make a trade for a very good player without damaging our core(Harrington,Wright,Bellinelli,...) in the near or not so far future.
do anyone of you remember when I said
“what goes around comes” before you were FElton-ed and acted cocky against us?
Like this: I thought of a way Find a team (let’s say GSW) with cap space to give Corey a deal for 6.5 million / 2 years with an opt-out the second year. Corey would agree to this because it is higher than the MLE.
Now trade Thomas + 2 draft picks for Corey. That way we get Corey back using the money allotted to Thomas.
Remember KARMA is a b…h.
Buky
Did you just respond to yourself 4 times? I’m getting the impression that maybe no one wants to play your game.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2008 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions
living in the bay and watching biedrins
i have to say… the guy can run, and he can jump pretty welll…
that said , they guy cant shoot, he cant shoot free throws, and he’s a foul machine.
i wouldnt even say he was that good a defender either.
maybe people are enamored with him because he may have potential. but i dont see him as anything more than say chris wilcox, with a worse free throw form. defeinitely not worth 10 + mil a year.
Interesting take
He’s a darling of the PER, partly because he doesn’t try to do things he can’t do. Also, since PER is playing time adjusted, he doesn’t suffer in that measure from not being on the court due to foul trouble.
The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
No Problems
Biedrins and the Warriors have agreed on a deal. We Believe part 2 is officially under way.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
