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Getting greedy - aka Phase 2 - aka Daring to dream

Earlier today I presented the doom and gloom scenario. The EB signing is being held up by the possible 6th year. The Clippers are getting thrifty at the worst possible time in the worst possible way.

But let's flip that on it's ear. Let's say the hold up is something good.

What if EB the First, DTS, MDSr., EB the Second, Agent Falk really knows what he's doing here? What I'm asking is, how could this situation get better?

Step one: You make it clear what's going to happen. BD and EB are going to sign with the Clippers. You are going to lose your franchise star for nothing.
Step two: You let that painfully sink in. Let it just simmer and marinate for a few days. You let them thrash around in Free Agency and watch others pass them by.
Step three: You step back to the team losing its star and you offer to soften the blow.
Step four: You find another team that wants something else that you have. Like, for example, a 20ppg wing due a big payday and realizing he will have to play ball in order to get it.

What I am saying is, the hold up here may be because the Clippers are on the verge of something even better than we dare to imagine.

Golden State receives thier choice of Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups or Richard Hamilton.
Detroit receives Corey Maggette and Brevin Knight (salary matching purposes).
Los Angeles Clippers receive Baron Davis.

The cash here is pretty close to working. You sign Maggette to the very maximum possible without him becoming a BYC player ($8.4M to start with 10.5% raises = 5yrs/51.8M). (Yes he could go a 6th year.) This will be more than he is likely to receive as a free agent. You sign Davis to the maximum amount possible (over 12M to start) without being too much for the Clippers to take on. This will be more than he would be paid by signing with the Clippers as a free agent. Because Davis is making more than Maggette, Golden State will be able to take on any of those three contracts.

If anyone feels like this trade is particularly unreasonable for any team, feel free to concoct a similar one. Detroit is reportedly looking for a swingman. Golden State could choose between an all-star big with a large expiring contract or two proven backcourt winners with reasonable deals.

But we only care about one thing. Where would this leave the Clippers? They get their man, Baron Davis. They would retain Elton Brand's Bird rights since they are not signing any free agents. They would retain Shaun Livingston's Bird rights since they are not signing any free agents. They would retain their mid-level and bi-annual exemptions since they are not signing any free agents.

In short, they get their cake and eat it too.

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You're pretty good at this...

It’s interesting. The baseline is Brand and Davis are Clippers – deal with it. If they want to play ball, maybe they can get something out of it. Me likey.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by ClipperSteve on Jul 3, 2008 12:49 PM PDT   0 recs

This is why

you get paid the big bucks John….or the imaginary big buck in any case…
So, if I understand you correctly, your deal, or something similar would in effect SAVE the Clippers MLE this season?...which they could in turn use on someone like..I dont know, Mikael Peitrus?..or some other sf/pf/c? Or split up the MLE and sign Livie AND someone else? Please tell me this is what you mean….

by Clip Show on Jul 3, 2008 12:52 PM PDT   0 recs

Correct, mostly

They don’t even need to use the MLE on Livs. He would still be a Bird free agent and would exist outside the normal cap. They would be able to sign one or more of others’ free agents up to the full MLE.

by John R on Jul 3, 2008 12:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Jinx!

If you talk you owe me a coke. Nobody say John R’s name. D’oh!

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by ClipperSteve on Jul 3, 2008 12:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This is what he means...

By acquiring Davis in a trade, as opposed to as a free agent, the Clippers retain all of the things they had renounced. Bird rights to Brand and Maggette and Livingston (aka they can sign them while going above the cap) and all of their exceptions. They don’t even have to use the MLE on Liv since they have his Bird rights. It costs DTS more money – no artificial caps on how much they can spend. But it gives them much more power to sign people.

The Clippers! The (second) Best NBA Team in LA!

by ClipperSteve on Jul 3, 2008 12:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So who do we need to tell

in order to get all of this stuff done?....
Does this help GS in anyway?...I mean, is this one of those deals that helps All/Most teams involved or just the Clippers? On the surface, it sounds as if its ALL good all around….GS gets a player in return for losing BDavis, we get BDavis plus MLE plus dont have to renounce Livie, and Detroit (or whoever) gets Maggs…and Maggs gets his $$....genius…absolute genius…

by Clip Show on Jul 3, 2008 1:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Based on the fact that none of these players are moving even though they should

I’d say its reasonable to assume that something like this is happening.

GS doesn’t just get a player, they get a good to great player.

If Detroit is out, move to the Magic, or Hornets, or Spurs, or whoever wants Corey.

But Detroit seems to be an especially nice fit.

by John R on Jul 3, 2008 1:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok...I understand

So, if we run with the ball a little bit here…who do the Clippers target with their MLE now? For some reason I keep mentioning Mikael Peitrus…but I am sure there are plenty of other players that are equally attractive. Plus, assuming everything has fallen into place, the Clippers now are THAT much more attractive to free agents, so one could assume that the possibilities are almost limitless….lets fantasize a little and figure out who else wants to be on the 08-09 Clippers!!

by Clip Show on Jul 3, 2008 1:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The forgotten men

Under this plan keeping Josh Powell and Q is also not a problem

Davis/Livingston
Mobley/Gordon/Ross (that’s for you Jax)
Thornton/Thomas/Williams
Brand/Powell
Kaman/Fazekas

With the MLE still to spend. Tinsley? Anthony Johnson? Chris Anderson?

by John R on Jul 3, 2008 2:09 PM PDT   0 recs

I may be wrong....

...but I don’t believe you can package another player (Knight in this case) when trading a signed and traded player (Maggette).

by hip2clip on Jul 3, 2008 2:40 PM PDT   0 recs

my head hurts...

I just spent way more time than I’m willing to admit reading the CBA and various websites trying to figure out if what you’re saying is true. I could have saved myself a lot of time if I had just searched for an example and found the Eddy Curry trade from a few years back. Multiple players traded from both teams, and a signed-and-traded player from each team to boot. It could be that the trade was actually completed in smaller pieces, but for now, I’m convinced that it’s legal to package another player with a signed-and-traded player. Let the dream live on!

by gfngfgf on Jul 3, 2008 11:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What about the Marko sign-and-trade?

Marko (signed & traded) + Chalmers for Sammy + 1st rounder?

Either way.. This would make all sides happy..

Brilliant!

by CLiPPz WeRD 42 on Jul 4, 2008 2:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder if

there’s another explanation – that all of this is actually something that Falk orchestrated to get EB a far higher payout then he would have otherwise had. Would be Machiavellian.

by Jax on Jul 3, 2008 11:33 PM PDT   0 recs

Thanks Jax

Just reminding you that you’re allowed to enjoy the Clippers good fortune now. Really, it’s okay to accept the idea that Brand, Baron, and Kaman are going to be on the court together until my daughter graduates from college—and she doesn’t start until the fall.

You might also want to comment on the Stuckey/Thornton situation now. Are you okay with the Thornton pick at this point? You weren’t wrong about Stuckey, but it’s nice that things have worked out.

This thread is about getting greedy. Maybe you can make a suggestion of what you would like for Phase Two. You’ll notice that John R has provided the blueprint here for the Clippers to resign Maggette. Fairly expansive of him, wouldn’t you say?

Just tell us what you want.

by citizen zhiv on Jul 4, 2008 7:37 AM PDT   0 recs

And depth is the soul of Zhiv

and I don’t find him lacking in wit. I rather enjoy his rants. (I get the feeling you do, too).

Besides, reading the long posts gives me something to do.

by mikey p on Jul 7, 2008 9:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I admit it - I do

Don’t tell anyone

by Jax on Jul 7, 2008 10:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Do we still see this happening?

Almost 48 hours since the Phase Two post, do any of us think that this might actually be happening?

I don’t see any signs myself. Reading through this again now, I note the Show’s statement: “who do we need to tell to get this done?”

I think we’re counting on Falk, and I feel like I completely misinterpreted Jax’ statement. I thought he was saying that Falk set up the Baron scenario so that EB could get more money from the Warriors or the Sixers, but he obviously meant the Clippers. Maybe I knew that, I’m not sure—too much of that unfiltered kool aid.

The thing that has happened in the meantime is that there is an active market for Maggette’s services. A few more dominoes have fallen (Arenas and maybe Smith? make additions), and the fact that Brand doesn’t seem to be leaving the Clips is settling in. SAS, Boston, and Cleveland want him, but these are MLE deals. The Warriors could get him, but the key is probably to figure out what the Warriors really want and need. Those competitive teams don’t seem to want to give up anything that the Warriors would want. But John R is out in front of this by talking about Detroit, and Orlando is a good candidate too, although it’s still hard to see Maggette playing alongside Rashard Lewis. It’s probably better to discuss deals for teams that know Maggette is an SF, and nobody should pay him $40-50 mill to play SG for five years.

It also sounds like the Warriors are ready to throw in the Harrington piece and there’s Peitrus out there too.

I don’t know. Maybe one of the experts can analyze how this might work at this point, or if it’s definitely not going to happen. We can worry about who the Clips might get with the MLE later, but first there has to be a big deal and they have to get the rights back.

All quiet on the front lines. Is it that important to all of these guys to eat hot dogs and watch fireworks, when there are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake?

by citizen zhiv on Jul 5, 2008 12:24 PM PDT   0 recs

You have a solid grasp on the situation

But I think you may have come to the wrong conclusion.

Silence is good.

Silence means they haven’t given up.

An announcement means game over.

by John R on Jul 5, 2008 1:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We don't know what's going on

Just relax and let it play out. EB is going to do what he’s going to do. The stars are aligned for him.

by Jax on Jul 6, 2008 8:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Not only is it hard to see Maggette playing next to Rashard,

but it is hard to see him playing next to him for 25% of what Lewis makes.

I would argue that Corey is a better player. How can he be in the same lineup with him in good conscious?

That Lewis contract will go down as the worst ever. Guaranteed.

by mikey p on Jul 5, 2008 2:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Seems like it should work.

It looks sound enough, everyone gets something they want. Clips get Baron and their MLE and Brand and Livingston’s bird rights. GS gets their choice of a great player. And Detroit gets a very very good scorer and all around player in Maggette(and they get a third string guard in Knight). My only problem with this deal is it help GS a little too much and we have to compete with them for a playoff spot. But other than that it seems good to me. But there may be a little problem with the execution of it. The Clippers staff would have to get the plan in order for it to work and they haven’t always been able to execute well in the past (example our failed try at signing Bryant and Arenas i years past). But if we can pull this off it will definitely be good for all team involved.

by bestclipfan on Jul 8, 2008 9:59 AM PDT   0 recs

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