was his superior ball handling skills. That part might be something that might be appealing with no other reliable ball handlers, other than Knight or Livingston, potentially on the roster beyond November 1st. I don’t think MDsr is in Rick Adelman’s class as a coach, or anywhere close for that matter, but I think Dunleavy might want to remember that. He also might want to remember that Artest might be more agreeable because of the money available on the table, and the benefit it could bring to the Clippers in a S&T. That’s what I was referring to with Maggette. You dumped Maggette’s value on the open market (very little given how few teams have cap room) for Baron Davis who is a better player. But Artest is a better player than Tim Thomas, and I don’t possibly see how cutting Thornton’s minutes as a starter hurts him unless he proves to be a bonafide starter. Especially if he is a true combo F who might have too many mismatches with quicker more athletic forwards who can beat him off the dribble.

I’m not going to quibble about Brand/Kaman’s rebounding. (I’ve always though Mobley and Davis are above average rebounders for their position’s too) prowess in any way. My point is that hurt the Kings in their overall defense, and it won’t hurt the Clippers. In fact Artest may rev up an already, what could be anyway, potential stellar defense. Getting better defensively, especially if you have a scheme that uses the players in the right way, promises to make MDsr’s extension worthwhile. Brand Davis and Artest aren’t the only people with something at stake in this deal. MDsr’s ability to command the locker room is at stake too I might imagine. Mostly, though, Brand and Artest’s NY connection might serve well as Artest currently bonds with New Yorkers on the Kings (Douby and Garcia) a bit easier than he does with anyone else on the team. If Brand and Artest are getting along, and Artest is on Brand’s page, and everyone should agree the Clippers are Elton Brand’s team, then that will go a long way to solving the chemistry issue. I’ve watched Artest for nearly 2 1/2 years, and one thing I can say is that Artest is all about being the “man.” But unlike Jermaine O’Neal who doesn’t really qualify, and mouthes off more about it than Artest does, Elton Brand is the true goods. And, of course, the NYC connection means something too.

Personally I don’t see how “Livie” factors into this Clip Show. He’s a PG. Artest is a SF/PF. Your points about Thornton I think are of greater value than anything other than the draft pick. And with that end here I go.

You point out that the Wolves pick is top 10 protected. The wolves won’t give that pick up unless it’s 11th or higher. You think that pick is worth keeping against a rental for Artest? I can see that point, but I’m not really sure why. Knowing what I do with Artest, and knowing what he does well and doesn’t do well, I’m inclined to think the 2 perfect fits for Artest are the Clippers and Mavs. 2 creating PG’s, 2 great PF’s, and head coaches that could use Artest’s talent without disrupting the rest of the team goal’s. Frankly Artest is a better scorer than Kaman, and while he isn’t as consistent as Brand, or as high end as Davis can be, when he lights up it changes the game. Simply put when Artest is on it’s him vs the world. Those talents are unique, and the chances of finding that player at a 11 to 14 pick is extremely low (that’s noting Artest was picked @ 16th overall).

Thanks for the response Clip Show.

I believe in following other teams, and their success and downfalls, simply because it helps to putting a realistic trade when you’re thinking them up. I can say I want Elton Brand this upcoming season, but what’s the chances of that happening? Artest to Clip Joint land? That’s a bit more likely.

I only disagree about being the 4th option. I think he would be the 3rd option, or at least he and Kaman could trade off in that option anyway. Maybe I’m wrong in that, but that would be a great way to showcase that Artest can play without disrupting a team fundamentally. I believe the Clippers COULD provide that type of opportunity for him. As to how they value their draft picks internally I’m inclined to believe they wouldn’t want to include both, but do remember you also lose Tim Thomas in this deal. He has no appeal to a Kings team with 3 players at the wing spots vying for minutes (not including Quincy Douby) already.

I would suggest you read StR as it pretty much details why. But the short version is simply he thought he would get an extension from the Kings, and when it didn’t happen, he lashed out.

But I thought the good ole college try it did attempt was worth it, and since the guy who did post on StR was new, I thought it might help him gain confidence. I’m so full of shit, and I love it.

No, I just wanted your opinions, because if nothing else, you all cover the Clippers angles pretty well. You after all fans of the team. I don’t come here because you all are the 2nd coming of Jesus’. I come here because you know the Clippers very well, and your responses show it.

I disagree about Kaman vs Artest. Artest is a quality post player. The real problem as I see it is keeping Artest from taking too many long off balance shots. If Artest can keep from jacking up shots, and sticking to his quality shots, shooting 50% is no problem for him. That however is his real offensive weakness. Kaman has never scored 20 a game in the League though, and Artest has. I’m inclined to say that because Artest can help the Clippers play a variety of ways, including playing at the 4, and guarding players at 5 positions, then he can bring more than Thornton can. I really do believe don’t get how talented Artest is unless you see him play on a daily basis. With all due respect, you’re severly underscoring Artest’s ability. You see the warts. and rightfully so, but what you don’t see is the other side of Ron. I have, and for 2 1/2 years. Short term, and on certain parts of the court, he is unstoppable. Is he Kobe? No, but only Michael Jordan has accomplished @ SG what Kobe is. Think about that for a moment.

Artest is a great 2 way player, but he is limited. He isn’t adept at blocking shots, but Kaman is. Kaman is a greater rebounder, and so is Brand. Brand has a fundamentally great game, but he isn’t flashy. He’s consistent, and rather reminds me of the old time Tiger great from the 30’s, Charlie Gehringer. As Mickey Cochrane said, ” He says hello on opening day, and goodbye on closing day, and in between he hits 350.” Brand isn’t that quiet, but you can pencil in that consistency. But the Clippers also need somebody who can light up on a moments notice, and Davis shooting the ball deep constantly takes away from his penetrating and dishing abilities. That’s where I think Artest can help the Clippers.

I understand the baggage angle. There are so many things about this I don’t like him. The taking himself out of games a year ago, and the 7 game suspension that was part of the punishment from his domestic dispute with his wife (at least she got hurt by his losing that money too-she was as much to blame as he was for that), and of course the previous distractions that led him to be traded to the Kings in the first place. However, let me point out a few things. He got into less problems in Sacramento than he did in Indy. He got into less problems in Indy than Chicago (forget the brawl-isolated incident). He got into less problems in Chicago than his childhood. Everything is rather relative. Artest as a 28 year old is very different than himself at even 25 years old. That is something we all should remember. That, and 50 million dollars will get anyone to at least consider how they’re perceived externally anyway. Especially if that perceived external view is the key to getting 50 million bucks.

I see the point about the Clippers not wanting to do a deal like this. Then again, as I pointed out the first time, do the Clippers really have that much to lose?

Zhiv is farily long, but I don’t he’s posted a fan post of this length. Might be wrong, but that took a very long time to write. I also took 6 hours to write something on Blazers Edge once. That was too long too. Way too long.