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The muddy water that is Shaun Livingston

I thought Art Thompson III was a Clipper fan. Why then is he suggesting that Shaun Livingston join the Lakers? He says that Livingston is playing 5 on 5 and looking good. I thought clipschamps saw him play and was unimpressed. This makes no sense at all. Does anybody know something accurate about Shaun Livingston? Please basketball gods, dont let Shaun defect to the Fakers and become one of the best guards in the game. I don't know if I could ever forgive Clipper management for letting this fish fall off the hook.

http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2008/08/20/why-not-shaun/#more-1363

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Liv to the Lakers

That would just kill me. I wish Shaun the absolute best whereever he ends up, but if he’s wearing that heinous purple and gold uniform I’ll be heckling his kneecap til no end. Anywhere but there Shaun.

by supac on Aug 21, 2008 12:10 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not cool

The thought of Livy in a Laker uni makes my stomach turn. Anywhere but there.

by Mr. Irrelevant on Aug 21, 2008 8:53 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lakers can have him if they want...

Shaun JUST started playing 5 on 5….dude can’t make an outside jumper to save his life, and has invariably lost a step or two with his devastating injury. I highly doubt SL will be able to produce at all this year. If the Lakers want throw some money at him (more than the min I am assuming since that is what the Clippers most likely offered), then good luck Shaun. Looks like AT3 has crossed over to the dark (purple) side….or just trying to provide for his fam.

by Clip Show on Aug 21, 2008 9:10 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

SL is penny stock

Shaun is a penny stock option for Lakers or anybody else. There may not be much left in his game; however, if there is more left, he is a good investment for little money.

by clippers#1 on Aug 21, 2008 10:19 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting

This post from AT3 is complex in a number of ways.

First of all, is AT3 still working for the OCR, but he’s just officially off the Clippers beat, which no longer exists? It’s not about “going over to the dark side,” since AT3 is a professional and not a fan, but he had a lot of expertise on the Clippers and was able to do a very good job, which he told us he enjoyed more than just being one of the many reporters who covers the Lakers. Raises some good questions on the Clips and the media, especially now that the new Clips have an LA media magnet in Baron Davis, and a full roster of competitive players. I believe the OCR has sat out covering the Clips and all of their moves up to this point, and that probably won’t change anytime soon.

Then there’s the Livingston situation. Thanks to Clipschamps spotting of Livingston (and Paul Davis) at UCLA, we know that Livingston is running 5-on-5, but he’s not pushing things in any way that would suggest that he’s ready to play in the NBA any time soon. Until he’s able to go to the rim, his primary skills are going to be ballhandling and defense, and he needs mobility in order to play the kind of D that will make him viable. It’s highly doubtful that his shot will have improved enough that defenses won’t be able to sag off of him.

The Lakers are an intriguing option, but it’s hard to see how they would be able to sign him to a better deal than what the Clips offered, or find any playing time for him. Part of Livingston’s roster appeal, in the best-case health scenario, is as a utility player who can also run an offense. The guy they felt they were missing was a James Posey, some one who can defend against a player like Paul Pierce (or Ray Allen), who can also hit some timely 3s. A healthy Trevor Ariza should take a good part of that role for the Lakers, and of course they’re counting on moving Odom down to SF and starting Bynum and Gasol. It’s important to remember that Kobe is chewing up major minutes at the wing/SG/SF position, so the Lakers have limited “use” for a “utility” player.

That gets you to the slightly funky triangle PG position. Fisher is good at it, firmly ensconced, but fading. The guy who would be in Livingston’s way right now and for the future would be Jordan Farmar. Farmar isn’t an ideal triangle PG but he’s solid and young and improving every year. Both Fisher and Farmar are much better perimeter shooters than anything that Livingston has shown in the past. Farmar is athletic, good at penetrating and finishing, and he can play some defense against smaller guards like Nash, Tony Parker, and Chris Paul. Perhaps there’s a scenario where Farmar stays as a backup after Fisher fades out and Liv becomes a starter, but the Lakers would only be able to pay for one of those guys at best, and they already have major luxury tax problems.

The one thing that does make sense is that Livingston has some of the qualities of Ron Harper, including the questionable knee that took away Harper’s high-flying game. But Harper was firmly established as a 20+ ppg scorer who could hit all kinds of different shots, before he became Jordan’s starting backcourt mate and then Kobe’s. Unfortunately Liv has never firmly established himself as anything and shows no signs of doing that any time soon. It might be a worthy longterm project for the Lakers, as AT3 seems to suggest, but they don’t seem to be in a position to make deals and wait around. It seems like there have to be some teams that present better scenarios for Liv to evolve and continue to recover and eventually get playing time and contribute.

by citizen zhiv on Aug 21, 2008 11:13 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Godd analysis....

I think my comment about AT3 and the “dark side” was really in jest only…the guy writes for a living so he is doing what he has to do.
The main thing that keeps popping into my head about SL and the Lakers is that Shaun’s outside shooting ability (or lack thereof) does not fit the mold of the point guard/wing player in the classical triangle offense. Traditionally, the triangle has gone with smaller point guards who are not necessarily great, but facilitate the ball, and hit open 3 pointers when presented to them. John Paxon, Steve Kerr and Derek Fisher seemed to fill that role to perfection. We then get into the role players who typically filled up the the 1, 2 and 3 spots…again, these are guys who are solid defensively, but ultimately were scorers..like Brian Shaw, Ron Harper and currently Sacha “the machine”. Unfortunately, SL doesn’t have the offensive firepower from downtown that all these guys have. That would lead me to believe that SL doesn’t make a good fit at all with the Lakers. Now, whether the Lakers offer him a contract, or he would even sign with them…well that is a different story.

by Clip Show on Aug 21, 2008 11:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My humble prediction is that Liv will pick a team where he has a much easier chance of becoming the starter if he can ever get to the point of being fully healed (we all know that’s a big ’if’). I think the Clips lost him once we signed BD (and the Clips made the right decision, IMHO). But in contrast to the PG depth that the Clips possess right now, there are many other teams that are so thin at PG that if he can suiccessfully navigate the road to recovery, he’d have a much better shot of getting back to where he thinks he belongs with another team.

As for the Lakers, I think an aging Fisher and an adequate but uninspiring backup in Farmar certainly represents a better potential fit for Liv’s aspirations than a team that just signed an all-star free agent PG to a five year contract and has not one but two experienced backups… In this regard, I do think he will be more attracted to the Lakers than the Clips, but I think that writing was on the wall for Liv & Clips ever since free agency started.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on Aug 21, 2008 11:36 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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