Sayonara, Shaun
by citizen zhiv
on Aug 7, 2008 11:25 PM PDT
According to the LA Times, the Clippers made a deal with Jason Williams (for the vet minimum, we assume) only after they were unable to come to terms with Shaun Livingston. The exact sequence is unclear, but one assumes that discussions with Livingston began after Brevin Knight was traded for Jason Hart, which ate up a healthy nugget of the Clips' remaining capspace. (I'm not the expert on these things.) We can assume that Hart was meant to be the solid backup PG, with Mike Taylor available to fill the 3rd string spot, but the primary backup spot was there for Livingston, as well as some minutes at the two or three. But in the Clippers snowballing (and completely unprecedented) free agent bonanza, some of the potential utility minutes must have disappeared, going to Ricky Davis and Eric Gordon. Even so, it appears at this point that the Clips were willing to continue their investment in Livingston and were offering him a minimum contract, but he and the team were "unable to come to terms."
So this is a bit of headscratcher, and a muffled finish to what was once an extremely promising Clipper career. Was it about money or opportunity for Livingston? Things never went his way, and he's had some horrible breaks. The team apparently held a spot for him and was willing to see if he could some day return and fulfill at least some of his potential. But they were also in the process of putting the roster through a major overhaul, and building around an elite PG in Baron Davis. When you add it all up, in the last six weeks the Clips have been able to add enough pieces so that it would be extremely difficult for him to find a slot. He would have to be not just healthy, but better and more effective than he ever was in the stilted sequences when he was actually able to play.
No one knows what Livingston's game might be like if he is ever able to come back. Like FElton, maybe he just needed to get away from the Clipper culture, leaving it to Kaman, Mobley, and the newcomers.
But if it was money, and he felt that the Clippers should have reserved some of the money that they spent on filling out in order to pay him more than the minimum, then it seems like bad faith. We're as sympathetic as can be towards Liv and his horrible injuries and all of the work he has put in to come back, but he has already made millions of dollars for what is effectively a no-show, and it's hard to imagine an argument for why he deserves a bigger share than the minimum, to play for a team that holds his Bird rights and could reward his performance with a generous contract.
We know that Jason Williams can play. He'll be a good enough backup who is a great ballhandler and he can hit shots. His spectacular days are behind him, and he's now an experienced, journeyman PG who can hit some shots and move the ball around, a full cut above Brevin Knight and Dan Dickau. With Davis, Camby, Kaman and Mobley all liable to get banged up here and there or worse, the Clips have made a concerted effort to fill out the roster with guys who have been starters and scorers and have shown that they can fill in if one of the rotation players goes down. Maybe Dunleavy is just challenging Hollinger to come up with new reasons for criticizing the Clippers bench and overall roster.
Too bad about Livingston.
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Deeply saddened by this news. Does anyone have a link?
by C's Up on Aug 8, 2008 12:30 AM PDT 0 recs
So true
about the Clippers realizing the need to have NBA level players on the bench in case it hits the fan.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Aug 8, 2008 7:48 AM PDT 0 recs
Disappointing...
...but it seems like Clips did what they could. Hard to understand what Shaun is thinking… with a bunch of guys on short deals in front of him… and he’s not yet cleared to play. Could he really be worried about minutes? Or was it the Baron Davis deal? Did he think they could afford another year like last year?
by swamigusto on Aug 8, 2008 8:06 AM PDT 0 recs
Maybe he dosen't want to burden the clips
because he knows he won’t be able to play tell mid season. I still think he should take the year off and get in game shape and then try and get signed by a team.
by bestclipfan on Aug 8, 2008 8:28 AM PDT 0 recs
In an interview
a couple of weeks ago that he didn’t think the Clippers would be a good fit for him. So money isn’t the issue.
by Jax on Aug 8, 2008 8:51 AM PDT 0 recs
Really hate to see Liv go, but
this is a shrewd move by both sides. I’m glad the Clips tried to bring Liv back, but if he wasn’t going to sign with us, J-Will is a decent fall back option. PG was the thinnest spot on our bench, and we did need to address it in case Baron goes down.
Now, I would have been happier if we took a mulligan on the Novak trade and instead offerred that 2nd rounder for Sergio Rodriguez, but maybe Portland intends to hoard PG’s until someone really gets desperate. I doubt J-Will has much life left in those tendinitis-racked knees, but he does fit our chuck-and-board team. Of the extremely weak field of available FA point guards, he was our best available option.
Liv and his agent are planning ahead for 2009 free agency. We may have his Bird rights, but he’s not likely to command more than the MLE next year anyway if he can only play limited minutes for half the season. Washed up veterans take minimum contracts when that’s all they can get, but Liv probably believes he’s just between multi-million dollar contracts right now.
The goal is 2009 free agency, and Liv just needs to show he is reasonably healthy at the end of the season. Passing up a minimum contract could pay off big later. When he’s ready to play, he’ll get to choose the best situation for him – maybe a contender with a hole at backup PG or a rebuilding team that would audition him for the following season. There’s even a chance that J-Will’s knees go out again, and he returns to the Clips.
by ClipCat on Aug 8, 2008 12:36 PM PDT 0 recs
How does...
Livingston signing a ONE year contract for the min this year with the Clips hurt his chances at free agency next year? I don’t get that logic. Worst case scenario (if he would have signed a min contract with the Clips this year)....he doesn’t play at all this year, and the Clips do not resign him next year. Best case, he is able to play half the year, proves that he is capable, and gets a legit contract offer from either the Clips or other teams. SL’s move doesn’t make any sense.
by Clip Show on
Aug 8, 2008 1:18 PM PDT
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Liv wants to be showcased
in the best playing situation he can find, and that may not be with the Clippers. If the Clips are deep in the playoff hunt when he is finally able to play, they could decide that working him back into the NBA isn’t worth the risk, especially if playing him only serves to drive up the cost of re-signing him. Also, he avoids the hassle of reporting to the Clips and having to travel with them just to watch from the bench.
by ClipCat on
Aug 8, 2008 1:48 PM PDT
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Lets talk about the upsite of getting WhiteChocolate though...
The dude was making 9 million last season. ill take him for the vet minimum any day. lets not forget he was a starter on the championship team a cuple years ago. sure hes been banged up, but playing in 67 games last year isnt peanuts, especially considering the franchise was allowing players to sit after they started tanking to get beasley/rose.
I loved livingston, still rock my #14 jersey, ive met him twice and both times he was both polite and friendly (once at roscoe’s chicken n waffles hours after he had 8 dimes against he magic!)... im gunna miss him but this offseason has been the most miraculous in clippers history, so its tough to complain. i wish Livingston the best in life regardless of what happens.. but business is business.
by althornton4president on Aug 8, 2008 4:58 PM PDT 0 recs
The reason is simple.
So long as his body allows him to play competitive hoops at all, Shaun wants to start (as would any player drafted as high as he was)... But with BD in the fold, that is not going to happen on the Clips. It would have been one thing if we signed Beno Udrih, because you can envision a scenario where Shaun could eventually come back and perhaps wrest the starting spot from BU and the Clips wouldn’t have overpaid too much for Beno. But that is not gonna happen with BD.
So I predict Shaun will sign a contact (even a one year min to start) with a team where a path to a starting job is at realistic. (Miami?, Denver?).
Sometimes you have let good talent walk away in order to secure great talent. I liked the guy as well, and I will root for his success. But the Clips couldn’t just sit back and settle for mediocrity (at best) while hoping he’s gonna turn it around – not when an All-Star PG who wants to be here is available.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Aug 9, 2008 9:15 AM PDT 0 recs
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