Is Elton Brand right? Are the Sixers the Team of the Future?
Leaving aside the hurt feelings and emotion and (we'll call it) deception of Elton Brand's signing with the Sixers instead of the Clippers, there seem to be at least two main reasons behind his decision:
- Philadelphia is closer to his upstate New York home and that of his wife whose family is from New Jersey;
- He seems to think the Sixers have a better chance of winning.
There's no arguing with the first statement. Philadelphia is closer to Peekskill New York than Los Angeles. That is a fact. That is one way (arguably the only one) that the city of Philadelphia is better than Los Angeles if you're Elton Brand.
As for the second, it will be interesting to follow the Sixers' progress over the five years of Brand's contract. Because in many ways, when I look at the Sixers' roster, I think they are in terrible shape - destined for mediocrity, with little hope of rising above it.
Given the success of the Celtics this season (and the Spurs before that), everyone wants to talk about a team's 'Big Three.' Let's look at the Sixers' 'Big Three.' The Sixers three highest paid players are Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert. And this will be true for many years barring a trade, as Dalembert is signed for three more seasons, and the wet ink on Brand and Iguodala's contracts says they run for five and six seasons respectively.
Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert is a 'Big Three?'
Lest anyone accuse me of sour grapes following EB's LA departure, please reference the Season Preview I wrote in Sept. 2006, mere months after LA's conference semi-finals appearance, at the very height of Clipper-mania:
[This team has a] weakness at playoff time: the absence of a first-tier mega-star on offense. Right, wrong or indifferent, the NBA remains a league that is built around superstars. Elton Brand is a great player, who shows up every night. But he is not a guy who can get a crucial bucket with 30 seconds to go in a close game.
By the way, I wrote that when he was 27 and before he missed a season with a ruptured achilles tendon.
If Brand were number 2 in the Philly Big Three, this wouldn't really be a problem. But unfortunately for Sixer fans, Andre Iguodala would seem to have a very similar problem - he's a phenomenal athlete, he works hard every game, he does many things very well on the basketball court - and he's not particularly good at getting his own shot.
As for Dalembert... puh-leeze. Sam Dalembert would be the third best big on the Clippers. Maybe.
All of which leaves the Sixers with over $40M in 2010-2011 salary committed to three guys, none of whom is really a 'go to' scorer and Elton Brand as their best player. No offense, but in nine NBA seasons, teams with Elton Brand as their best player have made the playoffs once.
Don't get me wrong - they're certainly good enough to make the playoffs in the East. It would not surprise me if the Brand Sixers made the playoffs five straight seasons. Nor would it surprise me if they lost in the first round every time. Citizens of ClipsNation feel like the Sixers are now the darlings of ESPN - but even so, they're only predicting fifth place in the East for the team. That's this year. Next season, they either lose their starting point guard, or lock up more long term salary on a player in his 30's.
So where's the headroom for the Sixers? The optimistic story line says that they won 40 games last season, gave the Pistons a scare in the first round, have added a major piece, and are young. Well, the 40 wins still makes for a losing record in the JV league, and even that looked like overachieving. We'll see how they're pressure affects teams the second time around, when they're a little more prepared for it. In fact, I would venture to way that that playoff series is a microcosm: sure Philly surprised the Pistons and won 2 of the first 3; and then they lost the final three games by 9, 17 and 23 points.
I won't argue that Brand doesn't help them - he's a great addition to that team in the position where they were weakest. It is worth noting however that much of the Sixers second half success last season came playing pressure defense and running, and it's far from clear that Brand fits that profile. In fact, the one time in recent memory when Brand played on such a team (for Team USA in the 2006 World Championships in Japan), he looked extremely uncomfortable.
But the real question about how you feel about Philly's future comes down to the young guys on the roster. The team won't have the cap space to add a piece through free agency until after Dalembert's deal expires in 2011 (at which point Thaddeus Young will need to be re-signed if he's as good as they think he is). And a mid-40's win total dictates draft picks in the late teens, early 20s - unlikely to produce a star. So, is Andre Iguodala getting a lot better? I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. And it would be ill-advised to continue waiting for Dalembert to develop an offensive game.
For Philly fans, it probably comes down to Lou Williams (who'll turn 22 before the start of the season) and Thaddeus Young (20). The Sixers just locked up Williams for the next five seasons, and if he continues to improve the way he has in his first few seasons, he could be a very good player at a bargain price. Certainly they are hoping that he renders the Andre Miller question obsolete by next summer. But at only 3.2 assists per game last season (fewer than 5 per 36 minutes), he's not really looking like an NBA point guard so far, while at his size (6'2") it's his only option. As for Young, the guy just turned 20. He could be great - he had a solid rookie season. But the league is littered with guys who showed potential as very young rookies, but never really figured out the NBA. And don't forget that most of his minutes last season came at power forward in a very fast lineup. With Elton Brand in town, Young has to slide over to the 3. It may be his more natural position, but it's not the position he played last year, when he enjoyed a quickness advantage on a nightly basis.
The Sixers do have one very important asset in their hands right now: Andre Miller's $10M expiring contract. If they're going to have significance in the playoffs, I think they need to get something out of Miller before the trade deadline. Letting that deal expire doesn't get them under the cap any time soon, and re-signing Miller next summer (at 33) just seals their fate as a first round playoff team. If Ed Stefanski is as good as Sixer fans think he is, Andre Miller will be gone by the trade deadline. And if that happens, then I may have to change my opinion.
But for now I'll go back to where I started: it's going to be interesting to see what happens with the Sixers in the next five seasons. If they can approach actual contender status during the period of Brand's contract, it will likely be because of major contributions from Lou Williams and/or Thaddeus Young. But if those two guys are just the fourth and fifth starters - i.e. if neither of them can join Brand and Iguodala to form an actual big three and become the team's go to guy - then I don't see them making it out of the first round, even in the East.
That may be further than the Clippers get in that time. But is it enough?
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Comments
The trap of trading Andre Miller
If they end up trading him, its almost certainly a mistake. They already have their wing scorer and bumping Dalembert down the depth chart doesn’t seem like a good option money wise. Are you looking to just upgrade at PG? He is their most tradable asset, but he is also a crucial piece of thier success.
Maybe Miller AND Dalembert for Shaq? Its kind of a sexy trade for Philly, but it probably makes them worse. Though they could look to flip Shaq again the very next season when it doesn’t work out.
It mostly looks like the old lame joke though: how do you consistantly get Elton Brand and Corey Maggette to the playoffs? Move them to the east.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Sep 12, 2008 11:30 AM PDT 0 recs
And also the following old adage
How to you get EB and Corey to the playoffs? Get them a pg and a coach
by Jax on
Sep 12, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
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So
…it’s get them a PG and a coach and move them to the East… ?
by citizen zhiv on
Sep 12, 2008 1:35 PM PDT
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Maybe so
But that’s really the point isn’t it?
Jordan and Pippen didn’t really need anything else. Nor did Duncan and Robinson. I mean they had nice pieces, but they didn’t have to be solid all around. Robinson and Duncan didn’t even have a 3rd player to score 12ppg.
Its why your adage fails. How do you get John R. to the playoffs? Get him Jordan and Pippen and Duncan and Robinson…
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Sep 12, 2008 2:03 PM PDT
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Of course
Jordan and Pippen are better than EB and Maggs. Three of your four are NBA MVPs. One is the best player in the history of the game. The fact that EB and Corey might need a pg and a coach to be successful doesn’t make them worthless. It means that management has to do its job and surround them with capable talent.
Philly has good management, if you haven’t noticed already. And Lou Williams should work out for them. I suspect Miller can be had relatively cheaply. They are in good shape.
by Jax on
Sep 12, 2008 2:13 PM PDT
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Philly has good management?
How many years did it take them to figure out they needed to dump Iverson? (Vs John R. saying this all along?)
I guess if you are willing to forget everything that came before Falk conspiring to get Brand away from the Clippers and Elton Brand’s lies, yeah, they have good management?
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Sep 13, 2008 10:23 AM PDT
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I see you're looking for a fight
Why not bother someone who cares
by Jax on
Sep 13, 2008 9:30 PM PDT
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You're one to talk, Jax...
As evidenced by your numerous confrontational and inane posts, you are the epitome of someone who is looking for a fight on these boards. If you’re going to be obnoxious, at least make the effort to avoid being a hypocrite.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on
Sep 14, 2008 9:38 PM PDT
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Son,
Unfortunately, I don’t have the time to respond to this substantively. Let’s just say that I respectfully disagree with you, and I would suggest that you take the time to read my posts, and what they are responding to before casting aspersions.
by Jax on
Sep 15, 2008 9:51 AM PDT
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That management isn't there anymore
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Sep 16, 2008 6:51 PM PDT
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No they're not
I’m a tad disappointed that the second post of September is about FElton and his new team, which makes it seem like ClipsNation is still playing defense, but I get it. We’ll all move on soon enough, but there’s no reason not to settle some existing issues. And the discussion fits into the larger context of media perception and the Clippers.
A small note first. I’m not sure that it’s just Philly’s proximity to Peekskill: unless I’m mistaken, there’s also the family of the Bride of FElton (BoF) in the general area somewhere. Grandparent proximity—assuming the gps are a benign or positive element—can’t be underestimated as a beneficial factor in Average Joe parenting, and when Dad is an NBA road warrior for 8 months a year, the value must be off the charts. Maybe the Falker was counting on this all along. FElton’s mom (Daisy?) didn’t seem to have a problem with hanging out in LA and on the road through the season—which we can say, now that he’s gone, is just a bit weird—but the new setup with wife and child may have changed the equation. It usually does. And just asking: so now does Daisy continue to go on the road with FElton, while the wife and child stay at home and close to the BoF’s parents? And that’s not odd?
Sorry. Sidetracked there for a moment.
I hadn’t thought about D’alembert as one of Philly’s big three, but I guess he is. And apparently he was big-timing it on the Canadian team and got booted, for whatever that’s worth. I would have thought that the Philly 3 was FElton-Iggy-AMiller, with Miller’s contract status and future a question, with the LWilliams situation. Either way, SamD or AMiller are not “Big 3” type players.
So part one is Iggy, and part two is the young guys.
Iggy is a nice player and a nice piece, and there are a lot of guys that he can be compared to. There are a bunch of upper tier wing players in the NBA. JJohnson in ATL, aging Ray Allen, Rudy Gay, Ariz. Wildcat Richard Jefferson, and Corey Maggette, just to name a few. It’s a pool of guys who will consistently put up numbers and be really good, and knock on the door of the all-star team. It’s the pool of guys who AREN’T in the elite tier, with Kobe, LeBron, and DWade.
The thing is, Iggy has just joined this group. It’s hard to tell how much “headroom” he has within it. I think he’s good, but I don’t know that he’s as good as Johnson or Gay. He strikes me as a very Maggette-like player. Maybe he’s a little bit better and has more of a natural feel for the game than Maggette, but he still seems like somebody who can be effectively slowed by a solid defensive player and scheme. Let’s put Philly against San Antonio for a second. FElton/Duncan wash, Bowen slows down Iggy, TParker gives Miller/Williams fits, and he or Ginobili is the guy who takes over the game in the 4th quarter, not Iggy. (And who knows what they’re getting out of D’Alembert.)
With regards to the young guys, CS makes a good point about FElton’s arrival and style stepping on TYoung a bit. My guess is that Sixer fans will see a lot of FElton at center with TYoung at PF, and D’Alembert on the bench. But MSpeights is another factor in that equation—he looks like he could be a very nice player, but he seems to do the exact same things that FElton does. TYoung certainly doesn’t seem to be a shooter and scorer in the classic SF mold of Thornton, Maggette, and Paul Pierce. They’ll figure it out, but some of the solutions seem to involve sitting down the less effective D’Alembert, which is not ideal when he’s making so much money.
The media response to the Sixers (versus the Clippers) is another story, which I guess I’ll save for later. I’m still looking for the rundown of the last time FElton and AMiller played together, when AMiller had an expiring contract and a good young player (Jaric, at the time) below him on the depth chart.
Making the decision to play with Andre Miller, Sam D, and Iggy instead of Baron Davis, Thornton, and Kaman always seemed questionable. But FElton’s priorities seem to have been having an easier road to the all-star team and the first rounds of the playoffs, and helping his wife out with the babysitting. Maybe in that order, maybe not.
At
by citizen zhiv on Sep 12, 2008 11:45 AM PDT 0 recs
Philly's Big Three
I’m saying it’s Brand, Iggy and Dalembert primarily from a financial commitment standpoint – they’ve got $35M wrapped in Dalembert for three seasons and much more in Brand and Iggy. Those guys are being paid like a ‘big three’ and pretty much preclude adding someone else.
But I too wonder if they wouldn’t be better off playing Brand at the 5 and Young at the 4.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by ClipperSteve on
Sep 12, 2008 1:33 PM PDT
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Hey CS
Did you edit in “and that of his wife whose family is from New Jersey,” or am I a total doofus and just didn’t see it?
And am I (again) wrong, or did EB’s mom Daisy (?) go on the road with the Clips and will she continue to do so?
by citizen zhiv on
Sep 12, 2008 1:50 PM PDT
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Answer = doofus
It was there all along.
As for Daisy, I’m pretty sure she won’t travel with the Clippers this year. She might travel with the Sixers, but I doubt that as well.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by ClipperSteve on
Sep 12, 2008 2:10 PM PDT
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Too bad
Milph is going to miss her.
Guess I got so excited to see an actual post that I got ahead of myself.
by citizen zhiv on
Sep 12, 2008 2:31 PM PDT
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Good analysis, and a thoughtful response from CZ...
I’m most intrigued by Steve’s angle that they might have to dump AMiller by the trade deadline in order to have hope for cap space later. But what if they’re fighting for a playoff spot? Or pretty much have one in hand… and Miller’s been putting in 30 plus minutes with at least decent results? As smart a play as that might be for the future, the Philly fan base will storm the castle. I don’t think many GM’s would have that kind of courage….
Which would you rather do, service the status quo and garner 5 or 6 years of playoff appearances (and keep your job) or take a big gamble, try and attract another big piece that MIGHT bring you a deep playoff run and a championship… or might not….
by swamigusto on Sep 12, 2008 1:07 PM PDT 0 recs
Are you sure you aren't already an NBA GM?
You figured out their secret.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Sep 12, 2008 1:13 PM PDT
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Really good point
It does seen like they’re headed into no man’s land. On the plus side, they’ll have half a season before the deadline to see if Williams is the future and can get the job done. But on the other hand, with the playoff bar set rather low in the East, what kind of deal do they make for Andre Miller that makes sense and helps their present and future.
Tall order.
John R has to be able to come up with a better idea than going after Shaq. I do like the (unlikely) idea of packaging D’alembert in it too.
How else can we help build the team of the future in Philly?
Which makes me think—with everything that went down in the FElton deal, and him having been a widely beloved player, does anyone know or see any signs of FElton First Clipper fans who are changing their allegiance to the Sixers now? I’m not getting any sense of that. With the Clippers being such a perennial laughing stock, you would think that there would be some huge Brand fans who are happy to switch to the Sixers.
The flow of circumstance went against this. If you (any of us) were Brand/Clipper fans, the first thing that we heard was that the Clippers were signing Baron Davis. That made us excited and happy for our favorite, EB—the Clips seemed to be helping him out by getting him another star player. So we’re still Clipper fans. But then we hear FElton and Falk’s spin, that the Clippers were disrespecting our favorite, and being a FElton First guy, we buy that completely. So he signs with Philly, and we’re happy for our guy to be out of messed-up Clipperland. And now he’s joining the team of the future. Go Sixers! Go Andre Miller! Go Sam D’onlyasshol-in-Canada! (cheap shot.)
Is anybody doing this?
by citizen zhiv on
Sep 12, 2008 1:33 PM PDT
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Back to the trap
I think you have to package Dalembert to make it magic. Otherwise, where does this newly acquired player play? Can you trade Andre Miller straight up for a SG who is so much of an upgrade that he is worth losing Andre Miller? I don’t see it.
So now you are sending out 20M in salary, but the other team is taking on a top of the second tier PG and a stiff C. What will they give up for that equal to 20M?
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Sep 12, 2008 2:09 PM PDT
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You just never know on this...
Who would have thought that the Lakers could parlay Kwame’s $9M contract (and little else) into Pau Gasol? It’s $10M; it’s expiring. It could be good for something. But it depends on who gets desperate out there.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by ClipperSteve on
Sep 12, 2008 2:16 PM PDT
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It's September...
We’ve rebuilt the Clips, and since we have nothing better to do we turn our attention to rebuilding the Sixers… even though most of us view the Sixers with some degree of enmity. It’s funny.
Yeah, I agree that if Williams proves himself you MIGHT be able to ship Miller. And packaging him with Dalembert makes a lot of sense… for the Sixers. But that’s an expiring contract of 10M and 2 years at what, around 11 million? Uh… they cancel each other out. You’d have to give the package away. (Maybe that was John R’s point and I’m slow.) But who would give you more than nothing for that package? Remember Memphis threw Lamar Odom OUT of the Pau/Kwame package… and he’s a helluva lot better player than Dalembert.
by swamigusto on
Sep 12, 2008 5:24 PM PDT
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No, no, no... I'm sticking to my guns....
Smart money says Sixers resign Miller at the end of the year. Clipper Steve has much less to lose than Ed Stefanski. The Brand deal didn’t prove Ed’s genius… he fell into it. He did some fancy footwork dumping salary at the end, but I wouldn’t be surprised if David Falk made some calls on his behalf. (Ah… I’ve somehow returned home to Clipperland, looking around corners, studying those dark shadows, drawing up new theorems about that damn conspiracy again.) Ed Stefanski is in a nice position to renogiate his own contract next year, right after he resigns Andre Miller.
by swamigusto on Sep 12, 2008 5:37 PM PDT 0 recs
You're right about EB falling into Stefanski's lap
Falk (and EB as I understand it) went to Philly right after receiving the lowball Clipper offer to try to drum up interest.
by Jax on
Sep 12, 2008 6:02 PM PDT
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Really?
I like my new “babysitter” theory better.
by citizen zhiv on
Sep 12, 2008 6:30 PM PDT
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It all fits...
Elton needs babysitter, the lowball offer, Ed Stefanski is no genius. They’re interlocking pieces. A kind of tapestry we knit together and pull over ourselves to keep us warm out here in the void.
by swamigusto on Sep 13, 2008 6:52 AM PDT 0 recs
Phily Aren't About A Big Three
They’re built more in kind with a Detroit Pistons. Not with 2-3 superstars but with a terrific starting five full of quality players and a good bench.
Andre Miller – Andre Iguodala – Thaddeus Young – Elton Brand – Samuel Dalembert
Top 10 PG – Near All-Star level SG – Good Prospect – All-NBA level player – Top 10 center
Elton Brand and Samuel Dalembert will be a terrific combination, similar to David West and Tyson Chandler in New Orleans. Two excellent rebounders, one terrific defender and one good defender, two shot blockers, one 20+ppg scorer and one 10-12ppg scorer. Phily already were one of the best rebounding teams in the league, this only improves them.
I think one of the most underrated aspects of the Sixers is the partnership defensively of Thaddeus Young and Andre Iguodala. How many teams in the league have two wings with their physical gifts (quickness, strength, height, length, agility) and defensive abilities? I have only one team (Houston Artest/Battier) that is clearly ahead of them and 2-3 which are candidates alongside the Sixers. I think these two will be able to choke opposing wings. Two good rebounders also.
Now you have a very good interior defense and one of the best pair of wing defenders in the league. Then add Miller who’s a solid defender. Phily were 8th last year in defensive efficiency, according to Basketball Reference, and they’re about to take a big leap defensively. I think Young moving to small forward, and Iggy moving to SG, will be the biggest reason for the leap.
So now you’ve one of the top defensive teams in the league and one of the top rebounding teams in the league.
Then add in Andre Miller who dropped 17/7/4 last season and for my money was Phily’s best player. Excellent floor general and decision maker. Helped spur a Phily team to an overachieving record and a playoff spot last season.
Two guards who are excellent playmakers, passers, ball handlers in Iggy and Miller. That versatility and level of creativity is very good. It’s not a thoroughbred go-to scorer but it’s someone who puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the opposition and can create a shot for themselves or a teammate at any time.
Starting five now has Elton Brand post game. The slashing of their wings. The floor general maestro. And a very good garbage man in the middle. Phily also ranked second in the NBA for forcing turnovers and get a lot of easy points on the break. Miller is a 15-17ppg scorer, Iggy is a 18-22ppg scorer, Brand is a 22-26ppg scorer. That’s 55-65ppg between your top three scorers which is a healthy clip. Now add both Young and Dalembert to the mix, two double digit scorers (Young with minutes will be that). Now you have 75-85 points in your starting lineup and your scoring is coming from a lot of difference places in a lot of different ways. That’s the basis for a very good offense.
—————————-
Then comes the bench.
Lou Williams is a terrific 6th man, one of the better 6th men in the league, who dropped almost 12ppg in 23 minutes last season. He’s a game changing player with his pace and penetration.
Then comes the backup big men which is an area of great strength for Phily. Reggie Evans is an excellent rebounder and quality role player. The loss of Jason Smith to injury is a blow but they have good cover. Marresse Speights is an excellent prospect and is one of the steals of the draft, he shouldn’t have fallen as far as he did, he’s a player. Then add Theo Ratliff who brings some interior defense, experience and toughness to the crew. That’s three very strong backup big men playing behind two quality starting big men. Very few teams in the league can match Phily’s big man depth and quality (Portland, Houston could).
The wings is a little light. I’m not a fan of Willie Green and think he’s on borrowed time. He’s just about serviceable but not much more. I like Kareem Rush. Jim O Brien often said that he was the Pacers best perimeter defender last season, add his perimeter shooting and solid scoring and he’s a good role player for the Sixers.
Then they have some more depth in Ivey and Marshall.
___________________
This is an excellent squad. I regard themselves and the Cavs as the two best teams in the East after the Champion Boston Celtics.
Go-to scoring is definitely a concern for this team, as is perimeter shooting, but I don’t think you should look past all the other qualities of this team. Especially their defense, rebounding prowess, depth and balance.
This is a team that’s going to grind you down and they’re going to be superb at it.
by NBR on Sep 13, 2008 7:47 AM PDT 0 recs
This comment is pretty close
He overrates some of his guys, but the Sixers are definitely in the Pistons’ mold. That’s the point of all of my comments so far. You can’t easily flip Miller. He is crucial, but also not worth that much in the trade market.
I rank them 4th behind BOS, DET, CLE and then PHIL.
But again, if Philly is in the West, they are about equal to the 7th/8th slot Clippers.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Sep 13, 2008 10:20 AM PDT
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FWIW
The experts (bookmakers, not the WWL) have the Clips as the 10th or 11th best team in the West. LAL, NOH, SAS, HOU, UTH, PHX, DAL, POR, DEN, and GSW are ahead of us, in approximate order (LAL is cemented at #1, POR/DEN are #8 or #9, GSW/LAC are #10 or #11).
In the East, it’s BOS, DET, CLE, and ORL in exact order all ahead of PHI, with TOR not far behind.
by supac on
Sep 13, 2008 11:28 AM PDT
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Im looking at Bodoglife.com right now
And you are right.
Want to see something funny though? GSW is 25-1 to win the West vs 30-1 for LAC. But to win it all, the Dubs are 60-1 vs 50-1 for LAC. The bookmakers have to take both perceptions and reality into account for their lines.
I meant to post the NBA Championship lines when I got back from Vegas a few weeks ago, but I didn’t. Here’s current for the West. (Championship in ()).
Lakers 3-2 (3-1)
Spurs 5-1 (9-1)
Hornets 6-1 (12-1)
Suns 8-1 (15-1)
Rockets 8-1 (9-1)
Jazz 10-1 (20-1)
Mavericks 10-1 (20-1)
Trailblazers 12-1 (25-1)
Nuggets 18-1 (30-1)
Warriors 25-1 (60-1)
Clippers 30-1 (50-1)
Rest 50-1 (150-1 etc.)
I tend to have a lot of respect for the collective logic that futures betting represents. However, it is also subject to press and perception problems.
But then again, I keep saying the Clippers’ fortunes hinge on largely unknown Thornton. I’ll stand by that.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Sep 13, 2008 11:41 AM PDT
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exactly
Why would you rate a team based only on its 3 highest players? The Big 3 that you listed are not the best 3 players on the team; that’d be Brand, Iggy and Miller, plus they have a boatload of other nice pieces like Dalembert, Evans, Williams and Speighs. I’m a Denver fan and I can admit that Camby doesn’t come close to matching the upsides on the 76rs.
by joshhopp on
Sep 13, 2008 3:48 PM PDT
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All salient points, NBR
Obviously, I’m oversimplifying to discuss a Big Three of Brand, Iggy and Dalembert. The point there is that those are the three highest paid players on the team, and they are all signed for 3 years. There’s a lot of money tied up in those three, and so it would seem that this cast of characters has to make something significant happen because there’s not a particularly realistic scenario where significant help arrives. And you’re point about the Pistons is spot on – that’s the team the Sixers should be emulating. It’s worth noting however that those Pistons were the only NBA champions since… since… since… forever pretty much to win a ring without a mega superstar on offense. So they’ve proven it can be done, but it ain’t easy.
I think we need to recognize some exaggerated optimism in this comment, though. “Miller is a 15-17ppg scorer, Iggy is a 18-22ppg scorer, Brand is a 22-26ppg scorer.” Well, first of all, Elton Brand has only once in his 9 year career averaged over 22, and never averaged as many as 26. And he’s 29 and coming off a season long injury. And while Iggy and Miller both averaged career highs last season (20 and 17), that was as the first two (and pretty much only) scoring options (the third leading scorer averaged 12). You don’t generally increase your scoring average when you slide down the options list. Iggy might be on a trajectory to becoming a 20 ppg scorer, but I doubt it. As for Miller – until last season, he had not averaged as many as 15 in 6 NBA seasons. And he’s never averaged 15 for a team with a winning record. He’s a valuable asset – but if he has to be a scorer, it’s not a good sign for the team.
It will be interesting to see how this goes. Which was really my point from the beginning.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by ClipperSteve on
Sep 14, 2008 11:08 AM PDT
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The Portland Trail Blazers are the team of the future
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by Addicted to Quack on Sep 13, 2008 11:15 AM PDT 0 recs
They certainly aren't the team of the now
They didn’t have a single player over 0.200 WP48 last season. Only Roy was top 15 in his position. But even he wasn’t necessarily more productive than Old Man Vince Carter.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Sep 13, 2008 11:29 AM PDT
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That I'd agree with
The hype surrounding Portland to me is hilarious: they have added a rookie shooter and a rookie centre with ijury concerns and whose best college numbers were like 15 and 8. And people are calling him the next David Robinson? Are they drunk or what?
by joshhopp on
Sep 13, 2008 3:49 PM PDT
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I for one like Portland alot
They would be good even wihtout Oden. They were good last year, and their young core is only going to get better. Basing one’s views on Portland’s prospects solely on WIN would be silly.
by Jax on
Sep 13, 2008 9:33 PM PDT
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What would be silly is ignoring statistics
Your anti-intellectualism fails again.
This is from a larger post written 1/2/08. Based on the first 2 months of the season he predicts the Blazers will win 40.6 games. They end up winning 41. He correctly predicted a brutal cooling off after they had recently gone something like 17-1 and everyone was feeling particularly Odenized.
“But after 32 games, this team’s efficiency differential stands at -0.1 and this team is on pace to win 41 games. In sum, this team has gotten better.”
Both methods used by the site correctly predicted the Blazers likely final record, PRECISELY, after only 32 games.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on
Sep 15, 2008 9:55 AM PDT
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Freshman numbers.
The numbers for many great centers were poor in their freshman seasons. Oden has been heralded since his freshman year in high school as a “once-in-a-generation” center. Whether or not he fulfills that potential, he has a great chance to be a very good big man in the league.
Add to that the summer league MVP, Jerryd Bayless, Rudy Fernandez, who was deemed by Dwyane Wade the best international player in the Olympics, and the already young core, and it is understandable for Blazer fans to be excited.
The Blazers have an all star in Brandon Roy, a young big man in Lamarcus Aldridge whose game complements that of Oden, and one of the best scoring sixth men in the league in Travis Outlaw. Add to that Nate McMillan, regarded as a top-five coach by the Olympic players and national pundits, and Blazer fans are not “drunk” to be excited about their team.
Sure, potential may not be realized, but to say they don’t have it is foolish.
by Cablinasian on
Sep 13, 2008 10:29 PM PDT
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