Livingston Update

by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 13, 2008 11:19 AM PDT

Article below was just posted today on Yahoo Sports. My assessment first:

A deal with Portland would be brilliant by Pritchard (since they don't need him right now and he can roll the dice with so many other great young players already in tow) but I'm not sure I understand why Liv would want to sign there. After all, he would have the same issues there as I believe he did with LAC - namely, no clear path to a major/starting role. Minn or Miami makes more sense in this regard.

One issue that was not addressed is why the Warriors didn't sign him, which is curious since the tryout received so much copy in advance... and then... nothing. Between GSW's need for immediate help and the opinions expressed below, it sounds like Liv is not ready now nor will he be in the early part of the season, if at all. (Note: I added the bolds to the article).

Livingston workouts attracting interest

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports

Free-agent guard Shaun Livingston, fighting back from a devastating knee injury, had private workouts with the Portland Trail Blazers and Minnesota Timberwolves in the past 48 hours and league sources expect him to sign with one of three teams next week.

Livingston worked out in Portland on Friday, and two league sources believed the Blazers are the favorites to sign the ex-Los Angeles Clippers guard. Still, it is unclear whether Portland general manager Kevin Pritchard has been convinced enough to add yet another guaranteed contract to his roster.

Minnesota executives Jim Stack, Fred Hoiberg and coach Randy Wittman traveled to Chicago on Thursday to watch Livingston at Tim Grover’s Attack Athletics facility. The Wolves, sources said, were sold on the workout and want to sign him.

The Miami Heat are also still in strong contention for Livingston, a 6-foot-7 point guard. Livingston is planning to work out for Heat president Pat Riley early this week in Miami.

Livingston suffered a devastating knee injury in February 2007, tearing three of the four major muscles in the knee. He missed the rest of the 2006-07 season and all of last season before the Clippers renounced his rights in July after signing Baron Davis and drafting Indiana’s Eric Gordon.

Livingston just turned 23 and several franchises were still intrigued with the tremendous possibility he had shown with the Clippers. He was the fourth overall pick in the 2004 draft out of high school and had just started to honor his talent in 2007 when he blew out his knee.

League executives who’ve watched him estimate his return to full strength at anywhere from 70 to 85 percent. He has shown some of his old explosion in workouts but has tired easily and clearly needs more time to build back the strength in that knee. Signing him would be an investment for the future, with few short-term returns.

"I don’t think you’ll get anything out of him this year," one NBA executive said. "He’s going to need a year to adjust."

Earlier in the week, Livingston had told friends that he believed the Heat were the most interested in him, but that was before the workouts with Minnesota and Portland.

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who cares about livingston is not a clipper

by highriser on Sep 14, 2008 4:22 PM PDT 0 recs

I guess the reason many of us, including CS

still care about SL is the Clippers’ “Great PG Hope” feeling we got when he was drafted as well as how much investment the team as placed on him…I have very little reason to think the Clips would consider bringing him back, so it will be interesting where his career will end up…Liv and the Clippers will forever go hand-in-hand…

by Lawler's Law on Sep 15, 2008 12:03 AM PDT up 0 recs

Which leads some of us to consider

why they continued to invest so much time in the guy

by Jax on Sep 15, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up 0 recs

Seriously, what?

They drafted him. They exercised the 4th year option on him in June of 2006, as stipulated by league rules, 8 months before his knee injury. He’s been their employee this whole time. And you’re suggesting that they should have known not to invest in him? It’s lots of fun to second-guess draft picks – is that all this is? “They shouldn’t have drafted him.” Pretty simplistic, don’t you think? Or are you suggesting that they should not have extended his contract in June 2006? Can we go back and check the comments and find your objections at the time?

Or are you suggesting that Livingston was sucking up too much of Rich Williams and Jasen Powell during the season while he was rehabbing?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by ClipperSteve on Sep 15, 2008 11:00 AM PDT up 0 recs

Why bother

Jax is anti-MDSr, anti-Liv, anti-QRoss…pro-Maggs, pro-EB (even now), and pro-DTS. Liv is no Stuckey, sorry.

by supac on Sep 15, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up 0 recs

I think Jax is reffering to trading SL for AI when they had the chance.

Unless he advocated cutting Shaun after the injury.

by OhMeOhMy on Sep 15, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

Exactly

I like SL just like the next guy, and I’m no scout, but I just never thought that he would be able to develop the strength to handle the PG position in the NBA and he can’t shoot.

I’m not really talking about the draft or exercising the four year option. Perhaps if I were a scout I could opine on whether he was the best pick at the time given what was available, but that’s not my issue.

OhMeOhMy hit the nail on head, and I should have articulated my position better (sorry Steve). Yes, I would have traded him before he got hurt. And I believe I said so at the time, although perhaps not on this fine blog because I hadn’t yet discovered it. I know that this sounds like monday morning quarterbacking, but I’ve always felt that way about him. It really hit home hen the Clippers played CSKA Moscow preseason in Moscow and he was repeatedly manhandled by their Greek PG – can’t recall his name now. That was the year he was supposed to take over the starting job and I could see – it was obvious to me – that he just couldn’t do it. If it was obvious to me, then surely it would have been obvious to the coaching staff, who could have traded him for AI (or likely someone else).

Supac, I’m not anti-anyone. I’m just a Clipper fan pointing out what I like and dislike about the team and its components. I am not anti Q Ross, I just thought he shouldn’t start. I suspect alot of people agree with me. I’m not pro Maggs – I just thought he was the best scorer they had and so he should start over someone with limited offensive skills like Q Ross (can’t believe this was even raised, given Ross’ pathetic WIN numbers). And I thoug that the anti-Maggs folks were ridiculous with their arguments given the options the team had at the time. I certainly do appreciate the years of service that Corey and EB put in here.

by Jax on Sep 16, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

As evidenced by recent post on other threads, there are many people on this site who evidently care about Livingtson – including the person who actually runs this site who was talking in somewhat wistful terms (my opinion) about Liv somehow returning to the team.

I for one am NOT interested in having him return, for all of the reasons I and others have posted elsewhere. In fact, I posted this to reinforce the idea that we should not be focusing our time on him and instead focus on who we do have on our team. Contrary to the wishful, somewhat delusional thinking of some on this site, Liv is not even ready.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 14, 2008 9:33 PM PDT 0 recs

To clarify...

… which I guess I can do since I posted this thread in the first place… :)

I loved Liv as a quality guy and as a player with tremendous promise. In the world of wishful thinking, I think practically all of us hoped that Liv wouldn’t have gotten injured and went on to have an All-Star career WITH THE CLIPS. Nothing would have made me happier because that also would have coincided with what was best for the Clips. But the current circumstances are different against the same goals (i.e., doing what is best for the Clips.) As much as I like him, the reality is it is no longer the case that what is best for him is automatically best for the team. Perhaps it could have been if he’d been willing to assume a lesser role, but I continue to believe that his heart is in starting somewhere (as far fetched as that is right now). Best of luck to him except when he’s playing against us.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 16, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up 0 recs

Lets see this through to the end

Why wouldn’t we desire SL back? We have loads of talent at the PG, SG, SF positions. Shaun – if he reaches his 80% of his potential – can easily earn a starting role for himself. He is loved by the fans, the coach, the owner and the team. He is worth a few million over a few years. I say give him a multi-year guarenteed contract and see the experiment through to the end. Who cares about the salary cap – I am no expert, but I am sure the lawyers could figure out a 3 year $6M offer. Plus he brings another familiar face to a Brand new team. If we want to become a dynasty, we have to find serious young talent and be patient.

by citizen bob on Sep 15, 2008 9:20 PM PDT 0 recs

Lawyers can't do it

The Clippers are over the cap and have only the minimum exception to use. So any offer to Liv would be for the min – no flexibility there. The only thing they could do would be to offer him years, which he may not want if he thinks he’ll prove that he’s worth more. So it’s one year min, and a player option, best offer from the Clips. And he apparently already turned down the one year min thing. It seems he’s expecting a better offer elsewhere, which may happen very soon. If so, good luck to him.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by ClipperSteve on Sep 16, 2008 8:10 AM PDT up 0 recs

Incredible pun, whether or not it was intentional.

Plus he brings another familiar face to a Brand new team.

"I think that the team that wins game five will win the series. Unless we lose game five."
Who else? Charles Barkley

by prezofdeath on Sep 17, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

Salary Cap Question

Could the Clips conceivably sign Shaun to a three year contract for $6M if he is at the minimum this year, $2M the next and $3M the year following or does that violate the collective bargaining agreement? If so, could we offer him a min contract and provide bonus incentives to make up the difference?

by citizen bob on Sep 18, 2008 9:17 PM PDT 0 recs

Short answer... no

Min, and 15% raises (I’m not even sure about the 15% raises, but certainly it’s not 100% raises).

In most contracts, incentives count against the cap if they are ‘likely to be reached’, and I think the standard on that is whether the player did it the year before. Camby’s contract has lots of incentives, including 10 points per game (didn’t do it last season) and something like 60 games played in (did do it). BUT, we’re talking about a veteran’s minimum exception contract here – it’s a very specific exception used as the final option for team’s over the cap – it allows you to sign a warm body, and that’s about it. I don’t think you can include incentives. It’s pretty much a boilerplate contract. The only question is length.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by ClipperSteve on Sep 18, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up 0 recs

The fans love a hard luck story.

Could it possibly be worth a sign & trade with somebody like Memphis – where Shaun signs with them and we trade Mike Taylor (or another PG) & a second round pick for him. Surely he has to be worth a second rounder. In the game before he was injured he nailed 14 assists. He was finally getting into rythm and Clippers fans had reason to hope. I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but if he recovers to 100% in the next two years and develops a long range game he will be a force in the NBA for years to come.

by citizen bob on Sep 18, 2008 11:40 PM PDT 0 recs