The End Game for Livingston
Well, at least in this case you can't say it's all ClipperSteve and wishful thinking.
According to Ramona Shelburne's blog for the LB Press Telegram / LA Daily News, MDsr confirmed at media day today that the Clippers offered Shaun a one year guaranteed contract with a player option for a second year. This was back in August, and obviously he turned it down, at which point the Clippers signed Jason Williams who has since retired. If the Williams signing closed the door on Livingston, his retirement has opened the window. It's significant that MDsr confirmed the contract offer - something we've only speculated about in the past. It's not clear that any other team is going to offer him a guaranteed contract, let alone a player option in year 2. It seems like the best offer he's going to get. Of course, it's still to back up Baron Davis for five years, and to play for a coach who wasn't exactly allowing Shaun to flourish. But apparently if Shaun wants to play in LA, the offer still stands.
So what about those other teams? With training camps opening across the NBA, Livingston remains unsigned. Here's the latest, as far as I can tell. For a couple weeks, the rumor has been that Portland, Miami and Minnesota were interested, and that he would sign with one of those three. Portland dropped out last week when Kevin Pritchard said that the Blazers would pass. Miami seemed worried about the lingering effects of the knee injury, according to Ira Winderman's blog - which seemingly left the field to the Timberwolves.
But when the Wolves announced their training camp roster today, Livingston's name was not on it. More than just an oversight, according to Wolves beat writer Jerry Zgoda at 4PM CT Monday, the Wolves have given up on signing Shaun, believing him on his way to the Heat:
Shaun Livingston isn’t coming along for the ride. According to Kevin McHale and Jim Stack, their efforts to sign the former Los Angeles Clippers guard are over and they said he instead has chosen Miami.
But wait. There's no confirmation yet from the Heat that Livingston will re-locate to South Beach, despite McHale representing the deal as a fait accompli. The latest from Winderman in the Sun-Sentinel at 11 PM ET Monday night is that, according to Shaun's agent Henry Thomas (who also happens to represent Dwyane Wade), they are 'leaning toward' signing with Miami. Of course the strange thing here is that there do not seem to be any other suitors with the Wolves pulling out. So why is he only leaning? Why hasn't he fallen in? It's also strange in the extreme that the Heat have already invited the NBA maximum 20 players to training camp. If they want to include Livingston at this point, they'll have to un-invite someone else. No big deal I guess - but it doesn't seem like a team that was trying to lure Livingston would fill up their dance card that way. They weren't exactly building their plans around him, that's for sure.
Which brings us back to the Clippers. MDsr is saying that they don't need to pursue him even with the retirement of Jason Williams - that he knows the offer is there, the implication of course being that he's still welcome to take it.
We offered him a contract and he turned it down. I think they know where we stand, so the ball is pretty much in their court now. We still like Shaun a lot.
But all indications are that Miami has serious misgivings about Shaun's health - and if they're that concerned, it's difficult to imagine that they will offer him a player option on a second season. Given Miami's luxury tax situation and their apparent skepticism about Shaun's future, I can't see them offering him any more than a one year minimum deal (maybe with a team option in the second year, which is no advantage to Liv of course). So in Shaun's worst case scenario (that his career is sadly over) the Clippers' offer is likely worth TWICE what any other offer is worth.
It's already Tuesday in Miami as I write this. By the time you're reading it, Shaun will no doubt be tossing passes to Dwyane Wade at the Heat's training camp. But the longer he remains unsigned, the more likely it becomes that he'll end up back in LA - he has a standing offer, it's better than he's going to get elsewhere, and it's hard to imagine that teams are going to give him guaranteed money to come into camp LATE given his status.
So there's still a chance for the dreamers in Clips Nation.
UPDATE: When I wrote this post Monday night, I had seen Ramona Shelburne's blog post, but Lisa Dillman's LA Times story was just a stub at the time. The full story in today's paper certainly has a different spin on MDsr's words on Livingston. Where Shelburne chose to focus on the concept that the offer is out there and still good, Dillman closed with MDsr questioning Liv's durability: "He looked good. That's not the issue. What you don't know is how he'll hold up." Take it for what it's worth.
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The offer's still on the table...
But why? How does a 1yr guaranteed contract with a player option next season benefit the Clips? Liv isn’t ready to contribute now, and he’ll likely wear a suit more than a uniform this season. If his career is over, we’ll pay him for two years of nothing. If he successfully recovers, he’ll opt out and get more money and more minutes elsewhere. I suppose there’s a best case scenario out there somewhere…where Liv takes over the back-up PG role this season and leads the second unit, then decides to re-sign w/ the Clips because of loyalty, and eventually takes over for BDiddy or perhaps even starts alongside him, fulfilling all his draft-day potential.
And maybe there’s even a championship there for the dreamers in ClipsNation.
It’s too bad I’m awake.
by supac on Sep 30, 2008 12:32 AM PDT 0 recs
You're probably right
The Clippers obviously have more invested in Livingston than other teams – and part of that investment is emotional. The second year player option (which I suggested months and months ago) was designed to make their offer as good as it could be given the cap constraints. But it turns out that no one else seems willing to make him that offer.
There was at one point in time a good reason to have the second year option – strictly as a carrot for Shaun – what do the Clippers get in return? His Bird rights. That would then narrow his options significantly if he came back and played great. In that scenario, he opts out, wants a big raise, and the Clippers are in the best position to give him that big raise. Obviously, that ‘big raise’ scenario is looking less and less likely. In which case Supac is right – it becomes more likely that the Clippers pay him one year for minimal playing time, at which point he still bolts, or they pay him 2 years for even less service.
Stay tuned.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by ClipperSteve on Sep 30, 2008 9:22 AM PDT 0 recs
Dunleavy comment
It looks like our new best friend is named Lisa Dillman, who has (as CS mentioned) apparently received the prestigious Clipper beat spot at the beleaguered LA Times. Someone might want to break down her entire article, which moves back and forth between some of the more obvious Clipper topics, Baron’s outlook, Camby’s attitude, and then there are a couple of interesting Brand nuggets from the irrepressible Chris Kaman.
Dunleavy has one other quote which does add something to this discussion:
“He looked good,” Dunleavy said. “That’s not the issue. What you don’t know is how he’ll hold up.”
I assume this refers to two things. Will Liv be able to make it through all or most of the rigors of training camp. Will his knee swell up, or have tendenitis flare up, like it did back in Feb-March when he had to cut back his rehab. Supposedly he won’t be able to play a significant role on any team right away, so this first part concerns the question of “holding up” through the final phase of his rehab.
But it’s the second part of this that is a more important question for teams. When he asks about how he’ll hold up, is Dunleavy thinking about Liv’s ability to stay on the floor in general, given this injury and the fragility of his body by general NBA standards. This injury just happened to be horrific, but there were a number of things that preceded it, and teams must be wondering what might happen next, and thinking that there’s probably going to be something.
by citizen zhiv on Sep 30, 2008 10:03 AM PDT 0 recs
Can we afford Livingston?
I do not mean money-wise. Money-wise, we can afford Livingston. I mean can we afford to test the waters with him, given our lack of a good second chose at PG now that Williams is gone?
I’d hate to see Baron go down, or need reduced minutes, just to see Hart filling that role for a significant potion of the season. Not that Hart is bad, but Jason Williams at least guaranteed some offense from that position on a relatively consistent basis. Livingston won’t fill that consistent offense threat role that is needed for the position, leaving Hart to handle those minutes (a guy with a 7.88 PER, who can be relied on for less than 10 PPG even when given minutes).
by Mistwell on Sep 30, 2008 11:29 AM PDT 0 recs
If not livingston
I think we need someone to be a 3rd string guard. I don’t want a repeat of last season where we went down to the level of signing Smush Parker.
by bestclipfan on Sep 30, 2008 12:11 PM PDT 0 recs
Smush is probably better
than the kind of PG we would find available to sign now. Maybe someone decent will be cut during training camp, but right now the Clips shouldn’t depend on a new signee to fit into the rotation or even make the 12-man active roster.
I understand the market on Liv is very low, but I really do not see the risk in signing him to a minimum contract. I only want him if he’s committed to working his butt off for a successful return. If he can eventually play, then he could become very useful off the bench. If he leaves for greener pastures next season, then he still could be useful in a sign-and-trade. Even if he ends up getting cut later, he won’t cost anything significant.
by ClipCat on
Sep 30, 2008 3:07 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Don't forget Mobley
Mobley has played some point before and he is a solid vet so it might be a good unit when Baron Davis needs a rest Mobley could take over and Gordon can come in.
.
Gordon, Davis, Novak, Thomas and Skinner arent too bad a second unit, they can mold Gordon into a point guard seeing how he is an undersized two guard now a days and who is a better teacher than Baron Davis
Dont get me wrong Shaun Livingston had amazing potential and I hope he comes back and becomes a star, but reality is reality.
by MROD311 on Oct 1, 2008 11:08 AM PDT 0 recs
Mobley has not had much success at the point...
Cat looked pretty shakey the couple of times they had him playing the point last year. Let’s face it – they MDsr preferred Dan Dickau and Smush Parker to Cat.
Gordon may get a look at the one. And there’s Mike Taylor. So they have their best player (Baron), a guy we know (Hart), a rookie point (Mike Taylor) and a rookie combo (Gordon) for now. But forget Cat.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by ClipperSteve on Oct 1, 2008 12:01 PM PDT 0 recs
possibly
but I’m saying things might change imagine how he would spread the court, I also have a crazy theory that al Thornton could be a point forward, just a crazy thought…
by MROD311 on Oct 1, 2008 12:19 PM PDT 0 recs
Thornton a PG
never! Remember Thornton often didn’t get an assist in a game. And if things get so bad that Thornton becomes our Pg than we are in trouble.
by bestclipfan on Oct 1, 2008 2:04 PM PDT 0 recs
Yes,
Thornton hardly had an assist some games but some games hardly had 5 points, but I’m not trying to justify anything it was just my crazy far fetched thought, I’m sure they’ll just sign another point hopefully a veteran.
by MROD311 on Oct 1, 2008 4:37 PM PDT 0 recs
Or they could just
keep the spot open and sign someone off of waivers.
by bestclipfan on Oct 1, 2008 7:37 PM PDT 0 recs
I'll second that...
Injuries are inevitable… but not exclusive to the pg spot. Better to keep that last spot open and fill in if/when you need a warm body.
by swamigusto on
Oct 2, 2008 1:30 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Maybe give one of these training camp guys a run
The Great Jelani McCoy anyone? I guess not. None of the training camp peeps really stand out. Is Richie Frahm still available? You can’t have enough shooters on the team…esp before we still Gordon in action.
Perhaps Yuta Tabuse? He’d be a fan favorite in SoCal.
I love LAC.
by oasisman on Oct 1, 2008 10:03 PM PDT 0 recs






