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Rookie Ranking Ranting

David Thorpe's disregard for Eric Gordon is beginning to border on the bizarre.  Thorpe provides updates to his Rookie Watch feature on ESPN.com weekly on Wednesdays.  So you might think that this week, a week that included Eric Gordon's 41 point performance (a Clipper rookie record, as well as the high game for any rookie this season), would create some significant movement.  The fact that Gordon's game came against a Thorpe favorite, Russell Westbrook, would also seem relevant, especially considering that Gordon thoroughly outplayed Westbrook, the Thunder rookie finishing with fewer points than shots  (11 versus 13) and fewer assists than turnovers (2 versus 3).  So there was bound to be movement in this week's list, right?  Indeed there was.  Westbrook moved up to the number 1 spot on Thorpe's Top 50. 

Like I said, bizarre.  In his write up on Westbrook, there is of course no mention of his poor performance against the Clippers, but there's also no mention of his 30 point performance against the Warriors the game before.  Instead, Thorpe spends his 160 words describing Westbrook's defense, which seems a strange choice given that he was one of the defenders that Gordon torched this week.  He concludes thusly:

Unless he's wrongly going over the top of the screen (meaning he's supposed to go under it on that play), it's not his fault if the shooter makes the shot. That shot is on the big who forgot to offer curl protection.

In other words, "I know that it LOOKED like Russell Westbrook just got burned by his man, but he didn't.  It's not his fault.  Trust me.  I know better.  I'm David Thorpe." 

(Sarcasm aside for a moment, he's of course correct - sometimes the defender whose man scores is not the one at fault in the overall defensive scheme.  But does it strike anyone else as strange to promote Westbrook to the top spot, and then use your analysis to explain the esoterica of how in your opinion Westbrook's teammates aren't making him look as good as he really, truly is?)

In his Rookie Watch introduction, he justifies his new top three (Westbrook, Kevin Love and Brook Lopez) based on how well their respective teams are playing.  The reasoning: Westbrook's Thunder are playing better lately than OJ Mayo's Grizz or Derrick Rose's Bulls, so Westbrook is number one.  Okie dokie, fine.  So the Rookie Watch is a snapshot of recent history.  Sure, the Bulls and the Grizz have more wins than the Thunder since the season began (OKC got their 11th win to tie the Grizz after Thorpe wrote this), but apparently Thorpe doesn't rank guys based on what they have done cumulatively.

Unless he's ranking Eric Gordon. 

No rookie is hotter on offense than EG, who has been torching teams, averaging more than 22 ppg in January. But this rookie report ranks guys based on what they have done cumulatively, and Gordon has not performed as well as many of the other rookies since the season began. But it's a long season, and Gordon looks as if he'll play a ton of minutes going forward, so seeing him ascend into our top 10 by season's end is certainly possible.

That's what Thorpe wrote about Gordon two weeks ago, on January 14th, before he scored 41 against the Thunder.  There was no written update on EJ this week.  It is true that Gordon did move from 14th to 11th in Thorpe's Top 50, but even that promotion strikes me as lazy and backhanded.  "Oh crap, I just got through talking about how Gordon might possibly make the top 10 by the season's end, and here we are two weeks later and he obviously deserves to be there already.  I'll make him 11 so my last comment doesn't look quite so stupid."

More to the point though, how can Thorpe possibly not talk about Gordon this week?  It's the Rookie Watch!  It's purpose in life is to watch for significant developments among NBA rookies.  Eric Gordon just scored 41 points in a game this week.  More points than any other rookie this season.  More points than Kevin Durant scored until the last game of his Rookie of the Year campaign.  That strikes me as significant, and maybe worth a shout out on the Rookie Watch!

Fortunately, the assistant coaches who vote for the participants in the T-Mobile Rookie Challenge (who selected Gordon to the nine man roster) and Dave McMenamin of NBA.com's Rookie Report (who has Gordon ranked fourth and Westbrook third) at least seem to have noticed what's going on.

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Amazing

Leaving Gordon at 11 and not talking about the 41 pt game makes some sense, if Thorpe is trying to look a bit less like an idiot. He’s playing a game with rookies—when a guy explodes that you bet against, you ignore him and double down on the bet that he’s going to have some bad games. It looks like it’s working out for him—although from a numbers standpoint, the fact that Gordon puts up 19 in playing his worst game in a month doesn’t make it easier for Thorpe.

As you point out, the problem isn’t the self-serving movement of Gordon to 11, despite making the rookie squad (top 9), but elevating Westbrook to #1 and raving about his defense after Gordon torches him (and while ignoring Gordon’s excellent defensive efforts), I suppose that’s a matter of Rose and Mayo losing steam.

We have to stay after this guy. It will help if Gordon isn’t overwhelmed by the cavalry coming back, the Clips start playing well, and Gordon plays well in the rookie game.

by citizen zhiv on Jan 29, 2009 12:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

How about Hollinger's article

Stating that Thornton and Gordon do not deserve to be in Phoenix b/c they have minutes

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090129

by Qlippers on Jan 29, 2009 12:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hollinger...

He sure hates the Clippers… But we’ve always known he’s a self-righteous prick. <3

by Redmosa on Jan 29, 2009 1:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's like the ESPN team

get off slagging the clipps. Jason Smith on the NBA Today podcast love it also the talentless muppet. They’ve got their noses so far up the Lakers arses that they can smell Kobe’s aftershave

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Jan 29, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hollinger hates the clippers w/ a passion

____although, he still stands by his statement that Paul davis “2nd best player in his draft class”

Way to pick ’em hollinger

by Qlippers on Jan 29, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

espn says kobe's aftershave

smells like the mystic mountains of Colorado… oh wait… that might be because of something else…

by cantthinkofagoodname on Jan 29, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

I had not read that one before. That’s pretty amazing. What an arrogant guy. “Surely we all agree that the only way to decide this is using the metric I invented.” He acts as if it’s so incredibly simplistic, and yet he’s the ONLY person I’ve seen question the Gordon pick. So, sorry John, I guess somehow we don’t all agree. Go figure.

But the truly astounding thing is that bases his argument on the premise that Thornton and Gordon have elevated minutes, and minutes don’t matter. But just last week he argued that Al Jefferson was more deserving as an All Star reserve than Shaq based primarily on the fact that AJ has played so many more minutes than Shaq! Yum, yum. That’s gooood hypocrisy!

One wants to ask Hollinger if he thinks Rick Adelman is stupid. Because apparently PER is the obviously correct measure of a player, and yet Adelman plays Luis Scola more minutes than he plays PER darling Carl Landry. So I guess the question is, who knows more about how much a player is helping the Houston Rockets win games – Rick Adelman, or John Hollinger’s computer?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 29, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting...

Jax has traditionally defended Hollinger.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 29, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really

Tired of the hypocrisy

by Jax on Jan 29, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i read that too

all i could do was just shake my head…no respect at all…yeah, like its gordon’s fault he’s getting all these minutes…duh!

by theNation4ever on Jan 30, 2009 2:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thorpe obviously has a deal w/ Hollinger

Beyond being stubborn, it’s got to be Gordon’s PER that’s holding him back.

by ghost_ride on Jan 29, 2009 2:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

With Thorpe, I tend to attribute it to a player level bias. He just doesn’t like EJ’s game, and just as clearly he loves Westbrook. Of course, these guys have agendas as well, and Thorpe has a more clear conflict of interest than most. His real job is running a training center for pro prospects. He has a vested interest in his clients doing well, so that he gets more clients. I don’t happen to know if Russell Westbrook was a client of his, but I’m just pointing out the obvious potential for a conflict of interest here.

But he doesn’t seem to be a PER zealot. He was very positive about Al last season, even as Hollinger continued to trash him, and Al’s PER is not good. Nor does he seem to have the anti-Clipper bias that Hollinger exhibits – he highlighted DeAndre Jordan this week, even as he ignored EJ.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 29, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it is possible NOT to like EJ's game

I mean, seriously. If you like basketball, it is hard not to appreciate how skilled and athletic the 19 year old is.

Big, strong, quick, can jump, textbook-beautiful jumper, good defensieve effort, decent hoops IQ…

It is one thing to look at guys like Al Thornton or Corey Maggette and not like their one dimensional game.

But Gordon does everything that could be asked for from a guard. It is just Clipper bias, pure and simple.

We should proably just enjoy it. I remember longing for the good old days of obscurity when the Clips made their playoff run and the national attention fell on them.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jan 29, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

EG does almost everything

except rebound as was pointed out a few days back, but ya, he is a great rook.

by cantthinkofagoodname on Jan 29, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hm...

I don’t think it’s fair to see our second-year forward as one-dimensional like Corey, who has had nine years to learn to pass and play defense.

In 1.5 years he’s become nearly as good as a nine year vet? I can only see him get better. Of course, yesterday was very frustrating watching Al settle for jump shots against that zone defense when everyone knows he’s an amazing slasher.

by Redmosa on Jan 29, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I for one think that Corey's a much better and more efficient player than Thornton

And of course Corey was much younger than Thornton when he came to the Clippers. He came out after one year. If, however, Thornton learns to pass, play defense and shoot the ball appropriately, he might become as good as Corey. Let’s hope he does.

by Jax on Jan 29, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

CM benefits from his experience

but I think AT has more talent. He is already at least as good of a shooter. And Corey has never been a guy that you could run an offense thru. The Clippers were running 4th qtr plays for rookie AT down the stretch last year with Corey on the same team.

Maggette is not good at creating shots for himself. AT does is better there. But nobody gets to the line as well as Corey. He is one of the best in the NBA, maybe the best, considering his amount of touches.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jan 30, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed AL has more talent - problem is that we need more than that

Jacking up shots from everywhere and refusing to play within the flow of the game doesn’t help. Hopefully he’ll improve quickly.

by Jax on Jan 30, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just using them as examples we are familiar with

You do have to admit that AT is pretty one diemensional at this point. I hope he contines to improve.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jan 30, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Guess This Is Just Another Reason

Why people call them the EVIL four letter network….

by moKi on Jan 29, 2009 2:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Human Goaltend Violation

+1 on that one!

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Jan 29, 2009 2:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wait one damn second!!!!

 Before anyone can start the Hollinger is a @$$ wipe this time around what has our team done to prove him wrong. Remember ESPN analyst (outside of Hollinger) had us at a 9th or 10th seed in the west maybe a 8th with a little luck. Look where this team is at we made Hollinger look like a genius for being this bad. Injuries was an excuse most of the season but with new reports and obvious common sense we can all tell players are delayiing injuries because they feel like whats the point. This team has been beyond bad and Mike Dunleavy has been a jokke of a coach with a very less talented OKC Thunder with a new coach showing promise each and every game. I’m sick of these crap threads about all these excuses and I was disgusted with the Clippers broadcast crew for whoever came up with the idea to run a “Surprises and Dissapointments” of the season. Also buy not even placing the Clippers on the list to be fair was a slap in the face to any NBA with two cent a brain.

Please I’m just asking for all the pity crap to stop hold the franchise accountable FIRST we will get bashed as long as we play like @$$, WE ARE NO LONGER THE UNDER CLIPPERS,

by KillaClip on Jan 29, 2009 3:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

All of this

Therefore Gordon is no better than the 11th best rookie. I get it now.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Jan 29, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You are right about the team and Hollinger's general thoughts on the team

Having said that, EJ is deserving of playing in the rookie game. Does that mean that the Clippers are any good or that MDSr is a good coach? No.

John R – the 11th best rookie thing is Thorpe, whose opinions I generally do respect.

by Jax on Jan 29, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And...

All this validates Hollinger saying Gordon and Thornton shouldn’t be going to Phoenix… how?

by Redmosa on Jan 29, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Open your eyes KillaClip

Ok, so we’ve badly underperformed this year but I don’t see any pity crap out there. All fans are putting their opinions out. If you don’t like it, who cares?

None of your points show any thought towards the comments on Eric and Al do they. You show me the sophomores that deserve to be in the team in place of Al. The ones that are outperforming him.

Eric Gordon has been superb since he hit the starting 5. He has had some inconsistent moments (like you expect from every rookie). Why do you think Hollinger loves Westbrook but not Gordon? Do YOU think RW is a much better player? If so, and you agree, put your opinions down here.

Who are all the players delaying injuries? We are all querying why Baron has been out for a long time but do you think Camby wants to be on the bench? Do you think Zach does, or Mike Taylor. I don’t think so, so don’t tar everyone with one brush because you read a couple of reports that people think Baron is taking the piss.

Hollinger writing crap about Al and Eric has absolutely nothing to do with your post

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Jan 30, 2009 2:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently, OKC gets more respect than the Clips

I went to ESPN a month ago for the rookie rankings and I wanted to compare NBA’s, in which at the time, EJ was sixth. I had to double check if ESPN’s was up to date because they had him at 15th. Have’nt been to ESPN since.

Horrible decision to put Westbrook at first though. At least put Rose, or Mayo to make it less subtle, less complaints from fans.

I don’t know why he’s so impressed with Westbrook when the guy plays with Durant who averages 25 ppg. Should’nt Westbrook get more than 4 assists per game playing with him? It’s not like the guy is shooting lights out either (just .411 on the floor).

If he’s first, then Gordon should be top 5 easy. They do have comparable numbers. Plus Gordon scored 41, the most any rookie scored this season.

by cliptakular on Jan 29, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He can’t make up the excuse of “the success of the team counts” either. According to the voters, that was the only excuse why Al wasn’t at the rookie game last year.

by cliptakular on Jan 29, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

typo

sry meant *more subtle

by cliptakular on Jan 29, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN is terrible when it comes to Clipper coverage.

If you don’t want to watch the Clippers, that’s fine. However, if watching NBA basetball is your job, you should do it no matter how excruciatingly painful it is. Gordon is much better than the 11th best rookie, and Thorpe should see that. It doesn’t take a basketball genius to see that EJ has been tearing up the Association in January, even if it is coming mostly in losing efforts. I mean, for FSM’s sake, the guy has two 30 point games and a 40 point game in which he thoroughly outplayed Russell Westbrook. I get that not that many people really give a crap about a Clipper/Thunder game, but c’mon. Give the guy some respect.

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years." -Mark Twain

by WestsideBrandon on Jan 29, 2009 4:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Rudy Fernandez has had a horrible January month

He should not be in the top 10. Eric Gordon should be top 5.

"Only dunk and go to the defense." Rudy Fernandez

by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 29, 2009 5:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hollinger and Thorpe are dead to me.

by keify34 on Jan 30, 2009 3:04 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I remember Simmons mentioning

Westbrook as a participant at David Thorpe summer camp

by Qlippers on Jan 30, 2009 7:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

For reals?

That would make sense certainly.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 30, 2009 8:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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