Simmons on the Clippers
by blowbyability on Jan 30, 2009 1:49 PM PST
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PrintBill Simmons unloads pretty good on Dunleavy and breaks down the most famous Clippers fans in his chat today.
I agree, due to Mike Dunleavy, I like basketball just a little bit less than I used to.
It's a pretty long chat, so I just pasted the Clippers portion underneath.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=24829
Dave, Kansas City: After the Clippers fiasco Wednesday night against Chicago, how can Dunleavy still be employed? As a season ticket holder you should organize a deep ops mission to get the pictures he must possess. I'd help but as a Royals season ticket holder I'm looking through the Walmart files to get the dirt on David Glass. 
Bill Simmons: I want to cover this in more detail at another point... Bill Simmons: But how the Clippers have treated their season ticketholders by NOT firing a complete fraud by Dunleavy, coupled with Dunleavy's total unwillingness to accept any responsibility whatsoever for this crappy season and/or a roster of players who actively hate him ... I mean, it's honestly one of the most depressing sports-related situations I have ever seen. Mike Dunleavy, I like sports less than I did 3 months ago - just a little, but still - because of you. Bill Simmons: You should quit. Have the dignity to step down as coach. Keep your GM job and continuing making bad moves. The Clips fans don't care - they are smart enough to know that Sterling will never fire you because he's too cheap. But don't keep going out there with your crappy gray suits and pretending that these players are listening to you. I have been to 11 or 12 games this year - the fans hate you, the players hate you, we all want you to go. Do the dignified thing and step down. Hand the team over to Kim Hughes. Bill Simmons: And by the way, you might be a nice guy and a great family guy - if you are, that;s fantastic. I just know that this specific Clippers team, and this specific fan base (small, but still), thinks you're awful at your job and wants you to leave. So do it. You are stealing money from the team. Bill Simmons: Sorry, I had to get that off my chest. My tickets cost $340 for a pair and I get to go watch Baron Davis jog up and down for 20 minutes a night looking like he just smelled a horrible fart. It's so much fun.
Jimbo, Brooklyn: So, are you the most famous Clippers fan? If so, how does that make you feel? Bill Simmons: Billy Crystal is the clear No. 1. Penny Marshall is 2nd. She's also third - have you seen her lately? She's gigantic. I think I am 4th. There is no 5th. Bill Simmons: And by the way, that's a distant 4th.
Rob (Portland, OR): You're sitting on the bowl right now, aren't you? Bill Simmons: No comment.
Josh (Hoboken, NJ): Next podcast guest: Mike Dunleavy? Bill Simmons: Absolutely. I would love to have him. Consider this an official invite. And I will absolutely ask him how it feels to steal money from a professional sports team every week.
brad (detroit): I think that Malcolm in the Middle kid is a Clippers fan. Bill Simmons: Nope. He moved and gave up his seats. I just thought about it some more - Cash Warren and Jessica Alba have season tix and came to a game last week. That bumps me to 6th. Cash Warren is in Us Weekly every week - and his dad is Mike Warren, and he's married to Alba. That kills my resume. I mean, his Dad has Fast Break AND White Shadow on his IMDB. And he won titles with Kareem at UCLA!
Nick (Seattle, WA): I have Zach Randolph, Chris Kaman, DeAndre Jordan, and Fred Jones on my terrible fantasy team. My worst fantasy team ever. I actually "signed" Fred Jones while he was still under his 10-day contract with the Clips. I feel a special kinship with the Clippers this year. I'm from Seattle, I enjoy the torture. Bill Simmons: I gotta say - Dunleavy gets props for the Gordon/Jordan picks. But were good values for where they got them. Does it make up for Yaro Koralev over Danny Granger? of course not! Not in a million years. But Jordan is probably my favorite Clip. He really tries out there... he gives a crap. Gordon could go either way... he's developing bad habits carrying a bad team which scares me. Same for Mayo in memphis actually. Of all the rooks, Kevin Love is in the best situation right now...
Paul (Oak Park, IL, formerly Portland): I always did get the impression that Dunleavy was a good guy when he was in Portland. My parents used to see he and his family at church and had a good impression of them. That said, I don't know WHAT the heck he's doing in LA. Bill Simmons: Stealing.
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Dude come clean
You’re Mike Dunleavy aren’t you? The sheer absurdity with which you try to defend him borders on the insane.
I mean do you honestly think he’s doing a good job coaching? When you see the team run “plays” out there, do you think “wow, that we well drawn up.” Do you? I’m asking a serious question so try not to avoid it by making some completely irrelevant comment.
Do you genuinely think Mike Dunleavy Sr. is doing a good job as coach this season?
Wouldn't mind the paycheck!
I honestly feel the same about your BD defense and/or the Dunleavy Derangement Syndrome that you and many others suffer from. I feel obligated to defend the man because those who hate him the most, for the most part, ignore the fact that BD has been just awful. Did I hear Simmons call BD a thief? At this point in his Clips career, BD has stolen more money than the coach has made in his 5 and a half years.
I don’t hate Baron, I swear. I know that I have been hard on him at times. I hate excuses!
If you look at the way the team improved over his first three years as head coach, narrowly missing the playoffs the fourth, and having lost his horse for the entire fifth, I afford him more slack than others. I don’t have a problem with his coaching or the way plays have been drawn up. When players don’t execute what can he do? Do you not see the frustration in his face and demeanor when they fail to get a shot off, throw the ball away, take a horrible shot outside of the offense? Thats poor execution, not poor play calling. When the players look over at the coach and say, “You called that one!” I will start to blame the coach.
This team was starting to turn around when all were healthy and the offense was running through Z-Bo. Naturally there would have been adjustments made as the season went on and guys like Gordon and Collins and Novak proved they were worthy of more minutes but everyone got hurt and now we get to start all over.
I know the West was ridiculous, but the offense that Nelly runs didn’t even get GS into the playoffs last year and BD played all 82 games. Now he plays for the Clippers under Mike Dunleavy Sr. and he can adjust his game to fit into Dunleavys offense. Furthermore, Marcus Camby and Zach Randolph have both played exceptionally well(THRIVED) in up tempo and half court offenses! You can’t prove otherwise. Those guys just go out and play hard every minute that they are on the floor and make no excuses. I want Baron to do the same.
Amen.
Less producing, conga room, and showing up on shows like “lincoln heights” and more effort please.
Thanks
for reprinting that.
That’s just hilarious. My favorite line is: “My tickets cost $340 for a pair and I get to go watch Baron Davis jog up and down for 20 minutes a night looking like he just smelled a horrible fart. It’s so much fun.”
And I also like sports a little less than 3 months ago. I took this girl to the game last time and she’s ever hopeful. Yet at the end she couldn’t defend the team’s performance. She was actually laughing at them.
I find it
hard to believe Simmons even allows himself to be considered a Clippers fan. All the guy can talk about is Celts, Patriots or Red Sox. He only has season tickets because he likes to watch basketball in person and is stuck in LA, not because he is a fan of the Clips. And ESPN probably pays for his seats, so what is he worried about? I don’t categorize him as a Clipper fan AT ALL.
That aside, The rag on Dunleavy is old….lets think of something new here. We get it. You don’t like him. Simmons has had an opportunity EVERY YEAR to not renew. A couple of years ago, he even publicly said he wasn’t going to renew…and then he did! What a tool. Not a big fan of him…as you might be able to tell.
My first year a season ticket holder..
Other than not being able to make most games because of work I have enjoyed watching EG and DJ progress especially during these past few months while the starting lineup “rests”. At this point though, Dunce really should step down. Much like my beloved suns who have been treading water with a new(questionable) coach has been trying to get his players on the same page, the clips have talent enough to play but it seems like Done-leave-y just can’t get this team going. I just wish he would put on his GM cap and realize how much of a burden he is on the players, bring in someone who could frankenstein together these players into some kind of monster, and fade into the background.
Anyone feel like reprinting all the stuff he said about Doc Rivers?
Nah, probably not worth the effort.
Suffice to say, Simmons doesn’t know what he’s talking about it. If one agrees with Simmons, one should be concerned about one’s own knowledge of what one talks.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Right - John R is smart, Simmons is dumb
One should . . . repeat after me . . . John R is smart . . . Simmons is dumb . . .
Simmons is funny, but this post is stupid
Dunleavy is not stealing anything from anybody. Donald Sterling employs him. Whether or not we approve of the job he is doing, he has earned his money. So let’s not be ridiculous. He is not going to fire himself, and has no obligation to do so.
Why don’t we just demand that DTS sell the team?
I don’t partiularly like the MDSr. offense that we have seen the past five years, but the D has been pretty good. The Clippers have been a respectable NBA team when healthy.
They have not been healthy this year. And they had a roster makeover. Doesn’t happen overnight. There is talent on this team, and he should at least get a chance to try and make it work.
Baron Davis .355 FG% has nothing to do with his coach. That has been perhaps the biggest disappointment so far.
All that being said, I am not a huge MDSr. fan, and I would not feel bad at all if he got canned. Many coaches get canned for way less, especially this year.
The 2004 and 2005 drafts (Livingston and Korolev) doomed the team. You cannot blow consecutive lottery picks and expect to be successful. For that, he should be held responsible
F-Elton!
Agreed on the picks,although
Livingston injury ruined that pick and that could not have been predicted.
I also hold him accountable for the playoff loss to the Suns that sealed the series, although for a different reason than Jax. Sam Cassel should have been told during the timeout that he only had a couple of seconds to advance the ball past midcourt and it should have been stressed. All indications are that MDSr and his entire staff forgot, and that was poor coaching.
They have drafted well two years straight. The Randolph trade was looking brilliant, and so are the Camby and Mike Taylor acquisitions. I just see more positive in his tenure than negative, including the defense.
I would be happy if he hired a coach and stayed on as GM because I know that he would look for someone who will demand defense out of his players. He may even be looking for someone as we speak.
This is where
things get silly. First, Livi is talented, but he’s a stick. He never had an NBA body. Second, let’s assume that it wasn’t a bad decision to draft him. It became clear early on that he did not have the strength to play solid defense in the NBA. My opinion of course. he did, however, have trade value and should have been traded. The de facto GM should have traded the guy IMO.
The Clippers wouldn’t have needed to sign BD for five years and $65 M had they drafted Stuckey. There, I’ve said it.
I trust MDSr as GM about as much as I trust John R to say something objective.
Exhibit A
Say what you want about Livingston’s inconsistent jumper or him being injury prone. But “not hav(ing) the strength to play solid defense in the NBA” is outright wrong. Perhaps not the speed against the super quick guards (Deron always burned him), but his lack of strength is irrelevant.
If the Clips drafted Stuckey, I’m sure MDSr would be faulted for ruining his career anyways.
That said, I’m not really a MDSr supporter. I just think he gets way more blame than he actually deserves. Biddy, on the other hand, is somehow getting a free pass for his season-long poop.
Most people
who hate Dunleavy are in love with hating him. He’s certainly providing the fodder this year.
Stuckey is NOT a PG
He is just playing one on TV. A big reason for the Pistons struggles.
So if we are talking about undersized combo guards, I’ll take Eric Gordon over Stuckey.
Besides, we would still need a 3. That means we would be paying Maggette rather than Baron. Or we would have just kept Brand, who is now a BACKUP in Philly.
Of course then, there would probably be no ZBo or Camby.
I don’t know. BD, EG, AT, vs. Stuckey, EG(?), Maggette(?). This current roster looks better to me.
Dunleavy has made some drafting mistakes, no doubt. Thornton over Stuckey was NOT one.
F-Elton!
I would disagree about Stuckey as PG
He’s doing what he can – starting for the Pistons in his second year.
But...
just to play devil’s advocate here for a little bit, look who he is playing with? 3 viable (and all-star caliber) scoring options in Rip Hamilton, RWallace and Iverson (or Billups last year). That is a whole hell of a lot different than playing on the Clips. I am not trying to say that he isn’t good or wouldn’t have been a better pick, but rather he has been in the right situation in Detroit (and has taken advantage of the situation, to his credit). I find it hard to believe Stuckey would have been able to “flourish” if he had been drafted by the Clips. Detroit has given him and almost no-lose situation…you are a rookie/2nd year player…lets see what you can do…you fail early..no problem, you are still young. You succeed (with 3 all stars surrounding you to take the pressure off), good for us (us being the Pistons). This would never have happened with the Clips.
I think he'd be scoring 20 ppg + and dishing out alot of assists on the Clips
he’d be more offensive-minded and would have had alot of opportunity to play last year. Detoit likes him – they traded Chauncey b/c of his ascension. The pressure is never really off in the NBA IMO.
If the Clips got him last year it might have changed their approach to this year’s draft . Perhaps they would have signed Corey as well. Interesting to speculate on I suppose.
Shuan's potential was off the charts
but they passed on Devin Harris and Jameer Nelson to pick him. (And Beno Udrih, and a couple of other good players).
Dunleavy does NOT draft well. Unless a player falls into his lap, like AT or EG, it is going to be a shaky pick.
F-Elton!
also... we traded down for him..
keep in mind that we had the 2nd pick that year, and could have also gotten okafor or ben gordon but the clips traded down to get livingston.
livingston was one of those "roll the dice on a possible future super star " type picks. i think he was the type of guy you get with like the 14th pick, not the 4th (or effectively the 2nd in our case)
Correct me if I'm wrong...
but I thought Dunleavy became GM just this past summer…how can we really blame him for the 04 and 05 draft? I think what he’s done this year with getting Baron and Zach and Camby and Novak and drafting Gordon, Jordon, and Tayler was prettty decent.
oh btw..who is Bill Simmons?
by theNation4ever on Feb 2, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
The conventional wisdom
The conventional wisdom is that MDsr has been making the major decisions since he became the coach and that Elgin was more or less a figure head. There’s no question that Korolev was MDsr’s pick – he as much as said it.
Bill Simmons is ESPN’s ‘Sports Guy’ – he’s kind of like the original blogger, only he doesn’t blog. He’s a sports fan (Boston mostly) who writes long, snarky screeds brimming with pop culture references – usually to reality TV shows and 80s movies. Bloggers and blogs have a love-hate relationship with him – but mostly hate. He moved to LA in maybe 2004 to write for Jimmy Kimmel, and got Clippers season tickets mainly so he could see the Celtics when they were in town. Of course, the Clippers got good and made the playoffs in 2006 and Simmons was an actual fan for awhile. Now he’s like a broken hearted teenager. The Clippers broke his heart. Plus, now that the Celtics are good again, he can go back to be a Hyper-annoying Boston fan with a overly developed sense of entitlement.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 2, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
oh okay...
thanks Clipper Steve…that Simmons guy sounds a lot like bandwagon Lakers fans haha
by theNation4ever on Feb 3, 2009 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
Spot on
assessment of Simmons!! While the Celts were irrelevant (read, prior to acquiring KG and Ray Ray), Simmons invariably jumped ship and rooted for the Clips. Now that his Celts are back in the limelight, he really could care less about the Clips. Sounds like a fair-weather fan if I ever heard of one.
He had a good analogy...
When the Clippers were better than the Celtics, didn’t he say they were his mistress, but he was still married to the Celtics, or something like that? It seems apropos. For a few seasons (one in particular), the Clippers were the younger, hotter girlfriend. Then his wife got a boob job and his girlfriend got fat.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 3, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
Perfect...
I remember reading something like that. So, that makes him a fariweather fan in my book either way….and a cheater to boot! ;)
Your evidence?
Two isolated blocks does not have anything to do with what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the ability to body up against strong point guards or shooting guards. Speed is another issue.
Let me be clear about MDSr – it’s all about performance. If he wins, he is a good coach. if he consistently loses, he is not.
C'mon
Give me a break, which PG/SG tried to post up Livingston, 6’9" with long wing span and quickness? An example, please? His lack of strength had absolutely nothing to do with his defense. In fact, defense was always one of Livingston’s strong suits – both on-ball and team defense. Sometimes I wonder if you watch the games with your eyes or just imagine them in your head.
I get your frustration with MDSr. I’ve been bitching about his offensive “offense” since he came on board. But he did make the organization respectable and we had that nice 05-06 playoff run. Give him at least some credit as coach and GM . We need to accept that DTS isn’t going to double-pay for the coaching position. Let’s not forget the Gentry/Ford/Fitch/etc eras.
I really don’t understand why it’s all about performance for the coach, but not the player(s). Biddy isn’t responsible for this disaster season with his consistent suckage, b/c MDSr “should have known what he was getting?” So Marbury will be Starbury (on the court) with the right coach/system? Really?
One last thing, you are always calling out John R for no good reason. 3x you mention him in this thread, despite him not provoking or responding to you. Yet whenever you guys fight, it’s in my unbiased opinion that he always crushes you (with arguments, statistics, and even insults). But maybe that’s just me.
My opinion of Livi changed forever when
I saw the relatively short Greek pg who at the time was playing for CSKA Moscow manhandle him in Russia a couple of years ago. This was the preseason for us – the year he later suffered the injury. I realized then that he would never have the strength to defend in the NBA.
Here’s the deal with MDSr – he did help make the franchise successful for one of the seven years he’s been here. The rest have been no different, really, than before, except that he’s gotten DTS to spend some cash (for which I give him credit), so the quality of player has been better than before. However, he’s a horrible coach, yet he’s snowed some with smoke and mirrors. It is truly unbelievable to me (and to Simmons, apparently) how it is that the guy has retained his job.
The players certainly share the blame, but it really wouldn’t matter who they pull in here unless they get a good coach and GM. Ok Lebron might make a difference.
It’s all about the W for me. You have to have a system that allows the players to excel. If you don’t, the players are far more likely to be perceived as failures by people like you when they don’t get individual statistical results that you think they should be getting.
John R called me out – see the thread above. I like Simmons, he says anyone who agrees with Simmons is stupid. A typical attempt to create an argument. Sorry you didn’t see the connection. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion as to who caused it, who won, who’s better looking, whatever.
Fair enough
I just don’t see any solutions right now. DTS isn’t going to fire MDSr. MDSr isn’t going to quit. Even if MDSr decides to focus on being a GM, which coaches are available that you like? Personally I really like JVG but 1) he won’t take the job, 2) his style might be even harder to watch, 3) DTS won’t pay. We’re stuck.
MDSr certainly isn’t going to magically become an offensive genius, and he’s not going to hire the assistants who can help him. But there’s a lot that Biddy can improve on, and he can start by stop pouting and dogging it. Then exercise some discretion in shot selection and create for teammates who can actually shoot. I’m pretty sure that’s what MDSr and the fans want from him.
I never said John R is better looking than you. I’m sure you’re both gorgeous gentlemen.
So i have to be famous to be a good clipper fan
Im not famous but think im a great fan srry i cant afford season tickets but if i could i would. As far as mdsr goes im not mad at him he has a really banged up team he has never had a consitent starting lineup up i think there are over 12 new players, baron hasnt even showed up yet and the trade for randolph changes the make up of this whole team which hasnt even had kamman so why not let the guy who got all these guys have a chance to make it work when there all healthy. I am more mad at baron then anyone have u ever noticed when hes not playing hes not even there but kamman is in a suit at ever game. Baron does not care about this team and it aint mdsr fault that a pro athelte cant run the plays and bring heart to the floor yes he signed him but i think everybody thought baron would be better then he is.
"Keep making bad moves?"
Novak?
DJ?
Randolph?
Gordon?
Camby?
What’s not to like about these moves? Even Mardy Collins, a throw in looks like a pretty good move.
How many people on this blog didn’t like the move for Baron? How many people were really bumbed to see Mr. Stat (Corey) leave?
OK. MD’s coaching has alot to be desired. I always like him as a GM. Let’s not overdue it now say he is a crappy GM. He’s made his mistakes, as have most other GMs. But let’s face it, he has given a lot of hope and optimism to this franchise for the talent he has drafted, traded for, and yes, signed in the FA market (never done before by any other Clipper exec or coach). Let’s get real and compare him to ALL of his predecessors.
Ok and your point here leads
to him being the GM for this organisation and to step away from his coaching duties which is what the majority of fans seem to want. It’s definately what I want. He’s made some good roster moves and some poor ones, some good draft choices and some poor ones. Similar to a number of teams, I agree. However, we now have a roster with talent and it’s still underperforming and I’m not sure I’ve seen any signs of improvement all season long. Yes, we’ve had injuries but you cannot hide behind them. The Wiz have had terrible injuries but they looked positively good against us and they had the worst record in the NBA.
It’s like the players just aren’t motivated to play for MDsr. I’m not saying that is the case but to me, it looks like that. Baron is a freakin’ enigma. Zach and Eric are going to be the offensive threats for this team (and Novak). Baron needs to learn to facilitate and take the good opportunites he gets for himself. This will never happen with MDSr. He’s stagnant as a coach of this team and needs to go.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
We all don't think Dunleavy is doing a good coaching job
Can anyone argue any differently?
Let’s turn it over to Hughes and keep Dunleavy as GM.
Turns out...
not our decision.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
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