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The Rookie Report: EJ and Al

Note:  I promoted this excellent post by citizen Redmosa to the front page.  It's timely, well written, well researched and contains lots of great links and background: nice work citizen.

EJ just moved up to numero quatro.

At about the time last year, Al was teetering on the number ten spot. I believe it's a testament of how good Eric Gordon really is.

Frankly I'm not surprised. However, I am rather shocked at Sir David Thorpe's rankings. I mean, I knew that Thorpe and the entire analyst crew at ESPN are biased against the Clippers (Ex: Al only hitting #8 in Thorpes final '07-'08 rankings, Philly making the better trade and us failing by getting Davis1, our best-case scenario being 30 wins at most, etc etc...), but honestly, give credit when it's deserved. But this isn't a bash ESPN post. I'm talking about our past two draft picks Al Thornton and Eric Gordon.

(You all might already know my standing towards Al, and some of you have expressed frustration and even more frustrations toward our sophomore forward, and indeed he has a long way to go in terms of technique, finesse, and basketball IQ.)

As were many of you, I was heartbroken to see our number six pick bumped to number seven when the Bulls were undeservingly handed the number one pick. At the time I was a pretty big fan of Jerryd Bayless, and seeing him still undrafted by our turn shocked me seeing as he could go as high as the number three pick. What shocked me even more was that Russell Westbrook, the unproven UCLA guard who had shown only glimpses of brilliance was picked at number four. When our turn came to pick from either Gordon or Bayless, I thought the choice was obvious... Why would we pick the guy who seemed undersized, like he could only play the 2, and often seemed prone to injuries? Well, we picked EJ and life moved on.

Now, I wasn't a believer in EJ (As I wasn't with Thornton), but watching him in Summer League was impressive to say the least. His shots weren't falling, but they looked amazing anyway; and when his shots didn't go in, he took it to the rim. The kid has a nose for scoring and knows how to score when one option isn't working. Hell, why not? I jumped on the EJ bandwagon as I did with Al and supported the rookie. The funny thing is, the two are following a similar pathway starting their careers off:

Al

- Benchwarmer for the beginning of the season.

- Played more minutes when Patterson the vet was waived.

- The bright spot on an injury-plagued team

- Lit it up December onwards.

 

EJ

-Benchwarmer for the beginning of the season

- Played more minutes when Mobley is traded/retired

- The bright spot on an injury-plagued team

- Dominates from December onwards.

 

The dissappointing facts about Al's rookie season was that he was indeed snubbed from the rookie all-star game because of the forward-heavy draft class he was in (Which could be why the sophomores may lose this year with no big men or strong guards). However, he was able to make the first rookie team.

I have no doubt that EJ will make it to all-star weekend because he's making his strides earlier, more consistently, and in greater commodities (Al made a lot of statement games but not as many as EJ will probably make this year). First-team all-rookie? We'll have to see about that because of the rookies he's competing with.

 

Will we be seeing our two young Clippers at all-star weekend? Al Thornton vs Eric Gordon would be a huge happening for the Clippers we haven't seen since Elton Brand vs Darius Miles. If Al gets snubbed this year... Well, let's hope it doesn't because there ARE forwards who are playing more efficiently than Al right now. The franchise needs more publicity and I'd love nothing more than to see our past two draft picks playing against each other.

Poll
The T-Mobile Rookie Challenge: Who's heading to Phoenix?
Al's going to Phoenix and only Al. Gordon will be snubbed.
7 votes
EJ's going to Phoenix and only EJ. Al's going to get snubbed.
35 votes
Both Clipper Rookie and Sophomore are going to Phoenix, it'll be an epic game.
54 votes
Neither. The only representation we're getting is the mandatory Clippers Spirit Dancer.
5 votes

101 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs | Comment 31 comments

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Great Post

Nice work, and love the links too. Agree on every point. Thornton is being brushed aside a bit (I just did it myself, trying to figure out what the Clips’ needs in the draft might be) with all of the recent focus on Gordon.

Tonight would be a good night for Thornton to step up and play well and help out. Let’s see if he can respond in a positive way to this new (temporary but emerging) order of Gordon as primary option. In CS’ excellent preview, he notes how Gordon is going to get to see what it’s like to be a primary option against a highly evolved elite team defense, as he tries to be the first rookie since Iverson to have three consecutive 30+ games. This is actually a great opportunity for Thornton to step up, and if he can get going it will relieve some of the pressure. Like CS, I haven’t seen much of the Clippers for awhile, and I’m looking forward to watching them play tonight.

Last year Thornton had some monster games but he also had some very empty nights as well. Gordon is more skilled and polished, he has that beautiful shot and he does all sorts of other things as well, so the hope is now that he’s going that he has very few games where he comes up completely empty, if any. And as I just said, this would be a good time for Thornton to find some mojo and have a big night.

by citizen zhiv on Jan 8, 2009 8:26 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great post indeed

I was considering a similar post myself. I had not yet seen the latest McMenamin rankings, so thanks for highlighting that. It’s nice to see that one of the rookie trackers is paying attention. It’s unfathomable that Thorpe has EJ mired at 15 in his rankings, but a couple of weeks ago he had him in the 30s IIRC, so at least he’s moving up. Surely he’ll be in the top 10 next week.

Did you also see Hollinger’s predictions piece yesterday? He led with this line: This season’s best rookie guard will not be Mayo or Rose. Coming as it did after back-to-back 30 point games from EJ, I immediately assumed that he was talking about Gordon – and then I remembered who was writing. He was referring to Westbrook – who in fairness has also been great, and is ranked ahead of EJ by McMenamin as well. But all the things that Hollinger was saying about Westbrook – playing better now while Rose and Mayo got off to hot starts, plays great defense, younger than Rose/Mayo, shooting a higher percentage – are true of EJ. He’s the youngest of the group, and has a higher effective shooting percentage than any of them. It may prove to be a little disingenuous to ignore Westbrook’s November shooting and just look at December. He was dreadful in November, and so we need to see if it was all just adjusting to the league, or if he’ll level out somewhere in between. I’m guessing it’s the latter – he’s not a great shooter, and he probably just had a great month in December that will be tough to sustain.

Later in Hollinger’s piece, he snubs Gordon in his rookie game selections. Just as happened to Al last year with a forward heavy group, EJ is in a guard-centric draft. The good news is that he’s ranked fourth on NBA.com. The bad news is that the three guys ahead of him are all guards. They’ll likely take 4 guards on the 9 man squad, and Hollinger has Rudy Fernandez as the 4th. It could happen, given the Clippers tradition for being ignored.

It would actually be hard to argue against Rudy, who is the only perimeter rookie with a eFG% higher than EJ (he’s shooting a ridiculous percentage from 3). But there’s still a long way to go, and I’m assuming EJ will be considered a lock by the time the teams are announced. I’m hoping that Rudy will be considered a wing, and they’ll both be included. We’ll see.

As for Al, unless he goes into a big time slump, he’ll be there. Even Hollinger has him making the Soph’s team, and he doesn’t even put an asterisk on it explaining how old Al really is (a first). Voters love scoring, and Al is still scoring.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 8, 2009 9:01 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fernandez

My sense of Fernandez is that he’s a “wing” anyway, and they should definitely have room for all of them—Rose, Mayo, Westbrook, Fernandez and Gordon—as long as they’re not overloaded with SFs and PFs, which I don’t think they are. Unless Gordon collapses, I don’t see how he gets left out, and the snub of Thornton last year won’t hurt him—and it will help Al this year as well.

Classic Hollinger.

by citizen zhiv on Jan 8, 2009 10:59 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For the good of the team

They should consider going small and starting Mayo at Small Forward.

pg: Rose/Augustine
sg: Westbrook/ Gordon
sf: Mayo/ Fernandez
pf: Gasol/ Beasley
c: Lopez

Looks like a pretty nice rotation…

by ghost_ride on Jan 8, 2009 11:14 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LRMaM

You’re boy Luc Richard is probably the odd man out. He gets hurt by John R’s lack of scoring argument of course.

BTW, why didn’t Ben Howland win the national title with three NBA starters on his roster last year? Oh that’s right, the title went to a team with two NBA starters and a lottery pick.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 8, 2009 11:14 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Augustine

Dude is shooting under 40%.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 8, 2009 11:15 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's Amazing

Considering he’s shooting 92% from the stripe.

In fact this class has some real sharp shooters from the free throw line.

Augustin-92%
Mayo – 88%
Rudy – 89%
EJ – 85%

by ghost_ride on Jan 8, 2009 11:17 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's funny how last year's UCLA team looks better in the NBA.

I’m a big UCLA fan, and despite the talent, that team frustrated me more than any Clipper team every could. They just refused to put points on the board. Luc Richard looks miles ahead of himself last year on the offensive end of the court. Westbrook had the great game against Memphis, and had a highlight reel year. Love was one and done, everyone knew it. The whole knock on Howland is that you’ll go to college and win, but never be successful in the NBA, but I think this class is starting to buck that trend.

by WestsideBrandon on Jan 8, 2009 12:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ooops...

In my comment, I have the wrong link – something leftover in the buffer. Sure wish I could edit that! Here’s the link to the Hollinger piece.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 8, 2009 11:16 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not that interesting

A 7 year old box score. Not porn.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 8, 2009 11:24 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Look to points

Its as simple, and I mean simple as in simpleton, as that.

If their PPG are right by the time selections are made, they will be in.

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Jan 8, 2009 9:40 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Didn't work for Al last season...

He was well into the top 9 in scoring but was not included. BUT, that’s certainly the first cut, simplistic though it may be. The guard/forward/center math definitely comes into play as well.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 8, 2009 10:10 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Forget the Superfluous Moves

This is where our attention should be, great stuff.

What’s interesting to me is the dynamic between EJ & AT on the court. After the Detroit game, Al was quoted as saying ""Eric was hot all night. It’s just too bad his last shot didn’t fall…" It made me wonder if Al isn’t ready to defer to the rookie just yet. Shot attempts v.s. Detroit: EJ 21, AT 11

In the next game against Dallas, Thornton takes 24 shots, while earning 3 trips to the line, 25 points. EJ needed only 18 shots to score 32 points, earning 7 + trips to the stripe.

Hopefully the two of them can help eachother out instead of competing against one another to lead the team in scoring. We don’t have to worry about EJ in that regard, but how Al responds to EJ’s emergence will go a long way in deciding if he’s to remain a Clipper. And hopefully Al can learn a thing or two about scoring while taking fewer shots, and how to play some tough defense from the rook.

All-Star game nods would be nice, but it’s all about the ROY race right now. Rose & Mayo are of course the heavy favorites, but as a Clipper fan you can’t hate the role of the underdog.

by ghost_ride on Jan 8, 2009 9:48 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

15 ft attempts for gordon missed one or two

by andrewexd on Jan 8, 2009 4:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clipperblog

Covers the Al Thornton question in very good detail today.

I would link, but I’m a doofus. Instead I’ll point out that our favorite fancy professional writer fan and exquisite stylist misuses “complementary” in his piece.

by citizen zhiv on Jan 8, 2009 11:49 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Have to agree w/ Kevin

If any, Thornton has been the player most associated with losing both this year and last.

by ghost_ride on Jan 8, 2009 12:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm

For the crime of not getting hurt and therefore playing the most minutes?

Get me BD and 75 and I'm in

by John R on Jan 8, 2009 2:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right...

Go figure, the one guy we don’t need to be durable turns out to be the only one who is…

by ghost_ride on Jan 8, 2009 5:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How did he do on his use of possessives?

Any there/their, its/it’s issues?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jan 8, 2009 1:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Flawless

And I think old CS might have even had a your/you’re in the last few days, but I don’t worry about those now.

Didn’t think he was a guy who would fall for the compliment trap.

And FSM forbid that Zhiv should ever make a mistake… and with no editing (tho with exalted triumvirate status I could probably figure out how to do it, but the time would be better spent on developing basic linking skills) and supersized blathering posts I mess up all the time, but it’s also fun to post without a safety net.

Didn’t set my tivo and should be heading home to get the game going instead of writing this…

by citizen zhiv on Jan 8, 2009 5:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

EJ and Al

If Al is smart he will have a long and successful career alongside EJ with the Ciips.
He just needs to trust EJ and his skills as they both grow together. I have watched EJ since he was a freshman in High School. Clipper and NBA fans have yet to see the total package this kid posesses.He WILL compliment Al and make him a better player if Al is patient and willing to accept EJ and his unique skill set. EJ will get him the ball in the best postions to score. All players have egos and I hope Al does not get upset with all the the attn. EJ is getting these days. It is also obvious he is Dunleavy’s pet player.
EJ by the way is also a very modest soft spoken kid playing with some very strong personalities that may not embrace his success of late while they are sitting out.

OOPS! I forgot Baron Davis is coming back soon. Forget the above. It can’t happen if Davis is running the show with his own agenda.

by PV Mike on Jan 8, 2009 1:46 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My favorite thing about EJ

….defense.

To me, defense determines someone’s determination and how hard they play.

by Newtybar on Jan 8, 2009 1:55 PM PST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

This goes to show that Clipper drafting has been a LOT better of late.

Many of us here at CN, including me, have their complaints about Al Thornton, but he definitely was not a bad pick at 14. You’re not going to hit the jackpot every year, no matter how good your scouting is. Al is a good player, with some major flaws that hopefully can be fixed.

I don’t think anyone disagrees with me on Eric Gordon. EJ has been amazing. To put up the numbers when he is really the only offensive option is absolutely incredible. I knew that the kid had offense, though, but I am in agreement with Newtybar that his defense has really impressed me the most. He is consistently taking on top quality offensive players and doing very well. Sometimes, he’ll fill up the stat sheet with steals, but more often than not its just the impact he has.

This organization has had a history of drafting extremely poorly with guys like Korolev. I don’t think that this team is done being terrible quite yet, but if they’re drafting shows anything it’s that they’re on the right track. In a pessimistic Clipper Nation, let’s be happy about this as it most definitely bodes well for our future.

by WestsideBrandon on Jan 8, 2009 4:45 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

According to John R

EJ is overated by everyone on the board.

by ghost_ride on Jan 8, 2009 5:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

According to John R

There’s a vast referee conspiracy, Q Ross is better than Corey Maggette, MDSr is the best coach in the history of the game, etc. . . .

I’d rather be on the other side of all of those arguments.

by Jax on Jan 8, 2009 5:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It doesn't matter if he's overrated.

I’ll take any rookie who has scored 20+ points in six straight games even though teams know that he’s the only offensive option on an injury plagued team.

by WestsideBrandon on Jan 8, 2009 11:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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