Clippers 93 - San Antonio 90 (Pre-Season) - Blake Superior leads the way
For the Spurs perspective, visit our pals at Pounding The Rock.
This is why pre-season kind of sucks. The Clippers can go to San Antonio, into a building where they have literally never won a game, and come up with a 93-90 come-from-behind win... and it doesn't mean squat. Here's who was on the floor for San Antonio in crunch time: George Hill, Curtis Jerrells, Marcus Williams, Malik Hairston and Ian Mahinmi. What fun is it to beat those guys?
For the game as a whole, the Clippers were actually resting more starters (Chris Kaman, Marcus Camby and Eric Gordon all got the night off) than the Spurs (Tony Parker is the only Spur who didn't play). So the teams were relatively even in theory, with few players on either side playing major minutes. But the mishmash lineup on both sides does little to build chemistry or to answer the big questions.
The one thing it can do is allow individuals to step up and assume a bigger role than they would if the regulars were playing. And in that sense, count this game was a major success. The Clippers starting front court tonight consisted of two guys who were in High School 30 months ago, Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan. And although I was unable to listen to the broadcast, the youngsters seem to have enjoyed their first start together. They combined for 38 points on 75% shooting and 15 rebounds in 29 minutes each. The kids are alright.
Blake Griffin's made field goals in his first pre-season game consisted of three dunks - and we were plenty excited about that. Tonight, he was 10 for 14 overall, and his shot chart shows a variety of spots on the floor that no one ever saw in Norman Oklahoma. Yes, he made an array of dunks and other power moves around the basket, which you love to see, and which will keep his shooting percentage high all season. But he also made a couple of 20 footers on the game. If he can hit that shot consistently I really don't know how you can guard the guy. But perhaps his most impressive statistic of all from this game is the fact that he had zero turnovers - a 20 year old rookie, in the role of number one option on offense, playing on the road - and he didn't turn the ball over a single time. That's why everyone, far and wide, universally refers to him as Blake Superior.
DeAndre Jordan on the other hand did have turnover problems, with a disturbing six in his 29 minutes. (In his defense, two were offensive fouls and two were strips after he got offensive rebounds; you can live with these sorts of errors of commission at this stage of his career.) But the rest of his game was outstanding. DJ's 15 points, 5 for 6 shooting and 8 rebounds would be impressive enough. He also came up big at the end of the game, which you don't really expect from a 21 year old with a reputation out of college as something of a chucklehead. After missing two key free throws with 62 seconds left and compounding that error with a bonehead foul, DJ came back with a bucket, a lead saving block, and two redemptive foul shots to atone. He easily could have been the goat, but came back to be the hero.
Baron Davis was the only Clipper starter over 25 who didn't get the night off, and that's likely only because Sebastian Telfair was still resting his tweaked hamstring. Baron didn't shoot well in his 24 minutes, but as he did against the Warriors Monday, he led the Clippers out of halftime with some solid play. He came up with a couple of steals, assists and buckets in the third to establish that the Clippers were not going to go away. It's obviously still early, but Baron is showing every indication of being an active and effective leader for this team so far. there's no question that the Clippers have been better - usually much better - with him on the floor so far this pre-season. They were plus 9 in his 24 minutes tonight.
And for those of us who have become enamoured of Rasual Butler at the small forward spot, Al Thornton used this game as a great big "Not so fast." Butler got the start tonight while Thornton came off the bench, but the former followed up his 27 point gem from Monday with a 1 for 7, 3 point stinker while the latter scored 18 points in 24 minutes. During a dismal second quarter, Thornton and Steve Novak (8 points in the quarter) carried the team, keeping the game from getting out of hand. Then, down the stretch, Al scored 11 straight for the Clippers at one point, capped by a three pointer that put them up six. Ironically, his performance could be construed as a great example of why he should NOT be the starter. What he did in San Antonio tonight - providing a potent offensive weapon to carry the second unit when nothing else is working - may in fact be the ideal role for him in the regular season.
It's still just pre-season of course. But I'd rather win than lose. And the performances of Thornton, Jordan and especially Blake Superior certainly bode well for the team.
With four games left in the pre-season, I think we can expect patchwork lineups in the next few - especially with back to back games this weekend at Staples in the "Lakers Pre-Season Shootout", not to mention that I find it hard to believe they're going to play the regulars big minutes against Maccabi Tel Aviv. These next three games will be more chances to take long looks at some of the backups, and to take a last look at the likes of Kareem Rush, Jerel McNeal and Anthony Roberson. Then the last game before the season starts, Friday Oct. 23 against the Hornets, they may or may not want to look at the regular rotation one last time before the real games start.
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62 comments
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Comments
Novak
Lights out! Too bad he is lacking in other skills. HIs three is deadly!
by ChrisS.Oaks on Oct 14, 2009 11:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Al Butler/Rasul Thornton
When the “starting unit” is playing with Butler…Butler doesn’t have to create his own shot, rather just feed of the play of the main 4. That explains a poor night for him since only 2 of the 4 (5 if u count Camby/Kaman off the bench) were there for him to feed off.
On the opposite, Thornton is a shot creator (for himself) and can get buckets regardless of who is on the floor (but more opportunites to hold the ball is best for AT, which works when most of the main guys are out/not on the floor).
Either way, we have two capable SF on both ends of the spectrum….as long as both get their minutes, the team should be fine.
by KidJustin on Oct 15, 2009 12:50 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree
You make a good case for Al coming off the bench as a spark plug when the first team can’t get it going. Bench production is crucial for a successful (.500+) season.
"Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle
by Cliptomaniac on Oct 15, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
New nickname idea for Eric Gordon
I posted this on another blog entry but not sure if anyone saw it.
What do you think of the nickname 3G since he’s such a good shooter? I like that it rhymes with EG, it’s easy to type, it’s simple, and it brings instant recognition since it’s also the name of the wireless phone network for the big companies. Can’t you hear Milph declaring “3G!!!!” every time he makes a 3-pointer??
DeAndre for MFP - Most Funniest Player
by ClippChick on Oct 15, 2009 7:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's alright...but it seems to mild..
not crazy aggressive enough, definitely better than The Hobbit. lol.
Why didn’t we think of Chocolate Rain?!
by Newtybar on Oct 15, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like 3g
I like Flash Gordon, I like Air Gordon. Not to aggressive isn’t nessissarily a bad thing.
by JackduhSun on Oct 15, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
gordon's personality
he’s got a quiet understated personality so i think it suits him to have a less aggressive nickname that still acknowledges his basketball playing awesomeness.
DeAndre for MFP - Most Funniest Player
by ClippChick on Oct 16, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
your right
his name is “Double Awesomeness” ….like Double O-Seven
by Takebb909 on Oct 16, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve...
If you are going to use Blake Superior, I deserve snappier headlines. Blake Superior makes big splash or Spurs drown in Blake Superior.
by sqrebck on Oct 15, 2009 7:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i concur
…Never the less as Steve rides the name “Blake Superior”(which is not a bad name, just a little to ‘Kraft foods’ for me) off into the sunset, I submit me “nickname” for Blake; …“Bourne”, from the fim Bourne Identity and its suceeding films. For those who have seen the film will know exactly what I’m referring and how befitting it is to a player that is an assassin that does it all. 3G for Eric sounds fairly similar to Dennis Scott’s “3D”.
by Takebb909 on Oct 15, 2009 8:12 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Another day
at Nickname Central.
“That’s why everyone, far and wide, refers to him as Blake Superior.”
Good one.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 15, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too chuckled when I read that.
hahahhaah
by Newtybar on Oct 15, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strange...
I’m quite pleased with Blake Superior obviously, but I’ve never been a big fan of those ‘snappy’ headlines. The Butler did it. How droll.
The other thing is that I simply don’t associate the name with the Lake the way others do. The Lake simply provides a recognizable sound pattern. But for me the name has nothing to do with a Lake, which is why I never really got the complaints about it’s supposed association with the Lakers.
Your request is noted…
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Oct 15, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean come on, I was hoping to see. Spurs unable to swallow Blake Superior. LOL…. I love those snappy headlines, it’s what makes reading a story fun. The New York Post is a fun read because of the headlines. They usually make me chuckle, but I always read the story that pops.
by sqrebck on Oct 15, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know that the Post
Is kind of a laughingstock of a newspaper right?
Figures that they have to resort to “snappy” headlines.
by madglove on Oct 15, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HHAHAAHAH AWESOME
That would actually warm me up a bit to the BS nick.
by Newtybar on Oct 15, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite snappy headline ever is “Great Dane,” after Claire Danes won an award.
by Polish Rifle on Oct 15, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even worse ...
In the ‘80s NYC subway system was bailed-out in a weekend deal.
The Daily News headlined, "Sick Transit’s Glorious Monday"
And now I think I should move on, too.
by pipedreams on Oct 16, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meet Mr. Jordan
Pretty funny, using a preseason game to matchup DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin against Tim Duncan. Lots of things to like about that game last night, with all of the preseason qualifiers noted of course.
Apparently Ricky Davis showed that he isn’t a total stiff. Milph mentioned that he might be better in a starting role than coming off the bench. Whuh? How about keeping it real, and just saying that if he can make some plays and hit some shots and not be absolutely pathetic, he might be a decent spot player, and preseason is an important proving ground for him. I’m not at all sure who should be the guy who is just outside of the rotation, and perhaps even in it: MCollins, RDavis, SNovak, or perhaps even Kareem Rush. Kind of a tossup. I might even lean towards Rush, but he won’t make the team. After that, I’d go with Collins and Novak ahead of Davis. But go ahead, play RDavis all you can in the rest of the preseason, and let’s see if he can by some chance still bring it, and prove me wrong.
Nice work by Thornton, carrying the team and winning the game for the Clips, more or less. If the Butler-Gordon-Thornton rotation is well-managed, the Clips could be really good.
And nice work sitting out guys, keeping them healthy. It’ll be good to get Telfair back, and let BDavis take it easy.
But my favorite thing is this Griffin-Jordan combo. It’s just a fun combination, exciting in the present and even more exciting for the future. Clipper depth at the big man position is pretty awesome.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 15, 2009 8:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Milph was referring to Griffin
when he was talking about a player being better when he is starter.
In Gordon we trust
by bestclipfan on Oct 15, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no he was talking about ricky
i distinctly remember him saying it last night, about how ricky’s personality is a “starter’s” personality. i think he only said that because ricky was making shots in the first quarter after throwing up nothing but bricks last year.
DeAndre for MFP - Most Funniest Player
by ClippChick on Oct 15, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny post at Pounding the Rock
In a battle of the two best players from this year’s draft, the Blake Griffin led Clippers beat the DeJuan Blair led San Antonio Spurs 93-90.
by Michael White on Oct 15, 2009 9:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The comments at PTR are pretty informative
as you can get the perspective from people who were at the game.
From commenter greyberger:
Blake was usually defended by the smaller or more forward-ish of our big men. So when it was Duncan-Dice, Dice guarded him, and later on Marcus Haislip go the assignment. The exception is when we had Mahimi and Dejuan Blair out together Mahimi defended Griffin if I remember right.
He was just a complete monster, and when Al Thorton came in for him in later in the game he destroyed us too. Their frontcourt looked really good despite (because!?!?) Kaman and Camby not playing at all.
by Michael White on Oct 15, 2009 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Despite
It’s despite, not because. Kaman and Camby are good, in case they were wondering. At some point the league is going to realize that the Clippers have an outstanding corps of big men. “Frontcourt” might be a little more problematic, depending on how the Thornton/Butler of it all works out—that’s the thing that Hollinger focused on. But it’s not exactly a weak link.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 15, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I left that in just so I wouldn’t be accused of cherry-picking only the positive mentions of the Clippers.
by Michael White on Oct 15, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spurs fans can say what they want but we are no longer win less in San Antonio.
and when Regular season opens we will hand the same beat down out again and again.
2009-10 LAC are winning the West!
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
by HVYDRT007 on Oct 15, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Job
Way to keep the positive flow going here. This one didn’t count, but psychologically it could be important. We’re also now 3-0 when Blake Griffin plays.
Think Thornton helped make a case for himself coming off the bench. He had the misfortune of still coming up a minus, but what he did at the end of the game bodes well. If we don’t have a dynamic wing player, at least now we have some options and Butler’s play will hopefully motivate Al to do more.
by ghost_ride on Oct 15, 2009 10:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dynamic Wing Player
Good note. Thornton is a dynamic wing player—coming off the bench.
I guess the downside here is that Butler wasn’t able to keep his strong streak going, and he wasn’t very effective slowing down Richard Jefferson either. Oh well. Can’t have everything, and with no Kaman-Camby-Gordon, as SP points out perhaps Butler was less glue guy/role player/hitting 3s, and felt he needed to do more.
At any rate, the Clips are showing some impressive depth.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 15, 2009 11:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thornton would be a great 6th man
It’s been discussed before, but his playing style, offensive skill coupled with a lack of passing ability is a perfect fit for an energetic 6th man that can keep the points pouring in. thornton’s nickname should be The Black Hole ‘cause the ball never comes back out once you pass it to him. but as a 6th man when there’s not really other scoring options, maybe it’s okay and can be a good thing since he’s not afraid to pull up for a jumper or take it to the hoop and get fouled.
DeAndre for MFP - Most Funniest Player
by ClippChick on Oct 15, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if he'd be a "perfect fit"
But between he and Butler Butler should be starting.
by Jax on Oct 15, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yah
sorry i tend to overgeneralize, thanks for calling me out on that one. he’s definitely not a “perfect fit” (emphasis on his Black Hole tendencies). i do think that he’s better suited to being a 6th man than being a starter. and i agree that butler would be a better starter.
DeAndre for MFP - Most Funniest Player
by ClippChick on Oct 15, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI - wasn't calling you out - just conversating . .
by Jax on Oct 15, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's ok
to call me out (when i’m wrong, i’m wrong), but i appreciate your clarification :)
DeAndre for MFP - Most Funniest Player
by ClippChick on Oct 16, 2009 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Pair of Draft Steals
Just perusing the commentary over at Pounding the Rock. As mwhite mentions, there are a couple of nice notes on Blake Griffin. They are geeked up about DeJuan Blair, as well they should be, but they have some perspective on things. One guy, analyzing Griffin, said that he would be absolutely shocked if Griffin didn’t win ROY, that he’s amazing and makes all kinds of plays at both ends of the court. Blair is putting up competitive numbers, but the comment noted that it’s preseason and Blair is not going to get anything like the minutes that Griffin will. As we’ve heard early and often, Griffin is in a class by himself.
But again, the idea of being geeked up about an extraordinary 2nd round draft pick got me thinking. Blair seems NBA ready in a number of ways and he’s looks poised to make a significant contribution to an elite team. Going at #37, he’s a legit draft steal, and a major preseason topic. But what about our own DeAndre Jordan, who was the #35 pick a year ago? Jordan is not quite there yet, but he certainly seems to be coming on fast, and last night was another nice step forward. Spurs fans are of course going to want to compare DeJuan Blair to Blake Griffin. But I’m a Clippers fan, and I want to compare DeAndre Jordan to DeJuan Blair.
As I said, DJordan is on a very different timetable. He wasn’t ready last year, and was more like raw ore, and a project. But sometimes projects work out. He has two fine centers ahead of him on the Clipper depth chart, Kaman and Camby. In that way he’s a bit like Blair, who is playing behind Tim Duncan. It might be interesting to see how Jordan and Blair’s minutes stack up against each other at the end of the season.
Aside from the unfortunate turnovers, which SP already qualified, DJordan played a nice game last night—and in part of it he was going up against Tim freaking Duncan, and for the first time.
For the Clips, it’s not just the great luck of winning the lottery and getting Griffin. It’s not just making your own luck by grabbing Camby and RButler from teams shedding salary. It’s not just the good luck of being able to get Eric Gordon at #7, or Al Thornton at #15 the year before, for that matter. DJordan looks to be an absolute steal in the draft, a guy who probably should have been up there just below the Gordon-Mayo-Westbrook level. And as you all know, I for one am kind of geeked up about it.
Club life is pretty good these days.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 15, 2009 1:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Blake Superior's Influence
Drafting DJ in the 2nd round was a smart move – low risk, high reward.
But getting a chance to draft Blake Superior makes drafting DJ GENIUS. As we all know, DJ and Superior are very good friends. They seem to hang out all the time and work our regularly together. Since Superior came on board, DJ’s tweets have started to focus more and more on working hard and “getting better.” Clearly that kind of focus is from Blake.
Everyone knew DJ had a ton of talent in college. His talent was never in question – his work ethic was. Getting a chance to put a work horse like Blake Superior next to DJ, to push him, and motivate him is an incredible plus.
At the end of last season, I really doubted whether DJ would do anything in this league. He seemed to carefree and unfocused. Now, thanks to Blake, I really think DJ could be a starting center in the league for years to come.
by madglove on Oct 15, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally Agree
Blake’s influence on DJ has been tremendous. Actually, Blake’s influence (regarding work ethic) is the primary reason (even moreso than talent) that I felt that we needed to win the lottery. I didn’t think the guys would respond to Rubio (who I did like) anywhere close to the way that that would Blake. I thought that he would be able to change the culture of this franchise, and he looks to be well on his way to doing that.
by Lawler 4ever on Oct 15, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't just work ethic
All he had was athleticism. That doesn’t necessarily equal “talent.” They took a flier and it may pay off. Particularly with the Griffinator there. You could be right.
by Jax on Oct 15, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Zhiv is geeked...
DJ-mania. Zhiv is smitten no doubt. But, and I hate to sound negative because there’s an awful lot of evidence that Jordan may be really good (see KA’s chat from yesterday), Zhiv has been smitten before.
by swamigusto on Oct 15, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He probably thinks Novak, P Davis and DJ are interchangeable
by Jax on Oct 15, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
I probably walked into that one. No mention of the Great Fazekas, or the amazing Big Z? Josh Powell? Which of my faves from Clipper Big Men Past are we missing?
But interchangable?
And I have to say that the Paul Davis reality vs. his Club Optimism profile is perhaps the greatest discrepancy. We heard that he was a grouchy, nasty dude in ways, and then I guess he showed some of that charming personality on a reality TV show, the one that was only partially aired because one of the contestants was a murderer. The ACL injury didn’t help Paul Davis. At the time of the 2nd round draft pick, I was intrigued by Milsap, but the Clips went with Davis because he was bigger and could play center, and Milsap was just another undersized PF. Sometimes I just try to make the best of things, but I’m really happy that Davis marched on to oblivion. Same for the rest, I’m afraid, moving into the past, and I hope we’re all happy that the Clips seem to have upgraded quite a bit. During the FElton heyday we got to watch scrub PGs like Brunson and Overton as starters. Once FElton went down and then left we’ve been treated to a cavalcade of mediocre, slow, relatively unskilled big men. So the thing I like the most is that our worst now would have been our best then.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 15, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most people thought
Blair was going to be drafted early but once he had his knees examined and found no ACL in either knee most teams didn’t want to risk drafting him. So it wasn’t necessarily doubt of his ability that made him fall so far it was more of a doubt of durability and health.
In Gordon we trust
by bestclipfan on Oct 15, 2009 1:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The bright side is...
that San Antonio doesn’t have to worry about him tearing one.
It was a great value pick for San Antonio. He may not have been worth the risk for a team that would have used a higher pick to build onto ther future nucleus, but in the second round he most certainly is a steal. 2nd rounders are non-guaranteed. San Antonio doesn’t necessarily need him to be a cornerstone of their franchise for 15 years, but mainly just be a productive piece in the frontcourt while Duncan is still playing for championships.
by Lawler 4ever on Oct 15, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
DeJuan Blair isn’t a steal. He’s a great player who is playing like he should be playing. Watch a Pitt game from the past two years. The problem with Blair is that he’s got seroius health issues. NBA teams don’t like to invest heavily in players with health issues like that. Spur fans are giddy b/c they are not thinking about what could happen at any time.
D Jordan, on the other hand, is like Zhiv said a project. Which is why he’s appropriately taken in the second round. Why would Zhiv think he should have been taken 10th without the benefit of hindsight? I don’t buy that. Does the fact that he ends up working out out make him a steal? I guess so. I generally don’t equate projects with steals.
A steal would be someone like Manu G, an established player who was playing in Europe, who went at 29th or something like that.
FYI Thornton went 14th. I would rather have had another player who went later whose name shall not be mentioned.
by Jax on Oct 15, 2009 3:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good distinction
I guess my approach is that if a GM had taken him 10th they would look good now. Projects get picked all the time, and when they work out they turn into “steals.” Maybe they’re just great bargains. It’s a strange equation. What happens when Michael Olowokandi or Kwame Brown is taken at 35?
Good point about how an elite franchise with a long run of success can make something out of late picks, especially guys with health questions, and they don’t have that much riding on it. The second round is what it is.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 15, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steal
Honestly, the success rate of low 1st rounders, let alone 2nd rounders, is so low that drafting anyone in the 2nd round who becomes a long term starter in the NBA is a steal. There’s really no two ways about it. 2nd rounders aren’t expected to do much, so if you get one that does, it’s a steal. If Blair ends up having a 8+ year career and produces, he’ll be a steal.
by madglove on Oct 15, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who?
FYI Thornton went 14th. I would rather have had another player who went later whose name shall not be mentioned.
I’m genuinely curious…who?
by madglove on Oct 15, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he his referring to stuckey
Jax has always been a big fan of Stuckey and while he has done well I am still happy we took Thornton
In Gordon we trust
by bestclipfan on Oct 15, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I figured
We could certainly use Stuckey now. But honestly, the kid’s been overrated since his success as a rookie. They basically ran Billups out of town to give the keys to Stuckey, who was underwhelming to say the least. And a year later? They’re pumping up Will Bynum instead.
by madglove on Oct 15, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will Bynum deserves minutes.
They’re trying to push Stuckey as their pg of the future, but I think Bynum is definitely making a case for himself to receive decent minutes. Somebody (Stuckey or Hamilton) is going to have to log some minutes at the 3 behind Prince in order to accomodate him.
by Lawler 4ever on Oct 15, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many dominos
It’s Stuckey. At the end of my last comment I wrote “what if they had drafted Stuckey, um, I mean Korolev, in the second round.” But I cut it out because I didn’t want to confuse things or antagonize Jax. He might have thought that I was saying that Stuckey should have been a 2nd rounder, which isn’t right. But I was thinking about it, and if the Clips draft Stuckey, there’s no deal for Baron Davis. You can keep going with these counterfactual examples, starting with taking Granger instead of Korolev.
It’s all one big karmic wheel, and the Clips somehow managed to end up with Blake Griffin, and there are all kinds of other twists of fate, including getting DJordan and Gordon and Camby and Butler and signing Baron Davis and FElton being injured. And Kaman’s injury last year, for that matter, which certainly helped the cause of getting Griffin, as did Camby missing the preseason last year, Baron falling on his tailbone, all of the little things that got us to today.
It was all part of Dunleavy’s carefully designed plan.
The Clips have earned their good fortune, such at it is at this point, the hard way.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 15, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
overrated? the guy is 22 and was taken 15th
They didn’t want to re sign Billups and wanted cap space. They knew Stuckey needed more time.
Let’s see what happens.
by Jax on Oct 15, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Stuckey wasn't good last year....
Thornton was at least marginally better, I think. And yeah, Al’s 25 and I guess that means he’s incapable of learning. I know we’re talking basketball, but that’s ageism, it sucks, and it’s beneath you, Jax.
Of course none of this has anything to do with the fact that DeAndre Jordan was a nice 2nd round pickup. I think that’s inarguable.
by swamigusto on Oct 15, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True about DJ as a nice 2nd round pickup
It’s not ageism – it’s just a sign that Thornton has likely plateaued while Stuckey still has lots of upside. The same thing AK is talking about over on Clipperblog. I’m not saying Thornton can’t learn, I’m saying that he seems to lack basketball IQ, the same thing that people were saying while he was in college.
by Jax on Oct 15, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might be right...
And I know it’s KA’s opinion as well. But I don’t think the Stuckey over Thornton choice was that obvious… and I don’t think the jury’s in on who’s gonna ultimately be the better pro.
And I’ll admit I’m sensitive about ageism… I’ll accept that Thornton may have a low basketball IQ, and it might be because he hasn’t played long enough, but it can’t be because he’s 3 years older than Stuckey. Look how much better Elton Brand got as he got older. Look at Billups, even journeymen like that Birdman guy. Jeezus, Detroit thinks they can teach Kwame Brown how to catch the ball… and I think most of us hold out hope for Chris Kaman. Players mature at different rates, physically and mentally. It’s hard stuff to predict.
There’s another argument in here as well… it’s one of longevity versus playing time. Kobe Bryant’s what? 29? With ten hard NBA years on his body. Some of those seasons were a hundred plus games. Will he last as long as Sam Cassell? Jason Kidd? Marcus Camby? When is Tim Duncan going to break down? There’s just too many variables.
And if you accept that, isn’t the reverse true as well? If Al has only played seven or eight years of organized ball is his biological age older than his true-basketball-age? Are Jax and KA, two smart guys, diminishing Al Thornton’s upside too soon?
by swamigusto on Oct 16, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Ageism
I’m not sure I think it is ageism either. With Thorton being 23 years old and playing well at Florida State, you have to ask if that’s a feature of him being more physicall developed than the 19 and 20 year olds he was seeing in the ACC. One could argue that the problem with Thorton is that he had already matured physically in college, and there is a much more limited upside then someone like Jordan. His age was the reason he slipped to the Clippers at 14 right? I like Stuckey too, but I don’t think Thorton was a bad pick there. Luckily the Clippers didn’t listen to me, as I was advocating for Nick Young.
by Michael White on Oct 16, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Young
He hasn’t been that bad. He put in some decent minutes last year, starting at times. Supposedly he looks pretty good this year too. Of course he’s not in a great situation to get minutes (or shots) on that team.
I think this convo just goes to show how hard it is to predict picks in the late first round, which goes back to the original point of what a “steal” DJ is as a 2nd rounder.
by madglove on Oct 16, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that we need to make calls on players as quickly as
practicable. Or at least GMs do. Otherwise you’re going to end up hoping they might improve instead of moving on to a better situation. Fans of course tend to like the players they watch and get used to.
I think AT is 4 years older than Stuckey.
by Jax on Oct 16, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was obviously overrated after his rookie season
He looked great in the playoffs and they gave him the keys to run the whole team, which he clearly was not ready to do.
I’m not saying he was overrated coming out of college. So his draft position is irrelevant. I’m saying that after he was surprisingly good as a rookie, they went nuts.
I’m also not saying he’s a bust by any means. I just don’t think he’s so clearly better than Thornton that it’s worth even second guessing. This isn’t a Granger/Korolev situation.
Stuckey could very well have a long career in this league. But so could Al. In the end, I’m not sure either are full time starting material.
by madglove on Oct 16, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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