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Around SBN: Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire Vow To Fit In With Lin

Phoenix 109 - Clippers 107

This game was a roller coaster.  Early it looked like the Clippers would be unstoppable, jumping out to a nice first quarter lead on the strength of some very efficient offense.  Unfortunately, the defense wasn't nearly as good, and the Clippers weren't able to pull away.  In the second quarter, the Suns reserves erased the deficit and built a lead of their own.  In the third quarter, the Clippers again tried to assert their dominance, building a 10 point lead again.  But a general lapse of intensity let the Suns back within two at the end of the quarter.

Again in the fourth quarter, it seemed the Clippers would pull away.  Baron Davis and Eric Gordon started the period beasting the smaller Phoenix guards.  Once again, the Clippers built a lead.  And once again Phoenix fought back.  This time from the foul line.

Star-divide


Final - 10.28.2009 1 2 3 4 Total
Phoenix Suns 24 29 24 32 109
Los Angeles Clippers 31 22 26 28 107

Complete Coverage >


 

After suffering a major foul disparity in their opener against the Lakers - perhaps understandable against the champs on their floor - the Clippers got absolutely killed by the calls in the fourth quarter of this game.  Something you'd like to think wouldn't happen when you're the home team.  At one point in the quarter, there were ten whistles against the Clippers, to two against the Suns.  Whether it was justified or not, it clearly was in the heads of the Clipper players.  After Grant Hill climbed Baron's back to get a put back and cut the lead to one, Baron was pissed at the ref.  After Kaman made a layup, he was pissed that he didn't get the and-one. 

But let's make one thing perfectly clear - this game isn't this close down the stretch if the Clippers just make their free throws.  Rarely is it quite this clear, but in a game that went down to the wire, the Clippers and Suns took the same number of free throws overall - and the Suns were plus 5 in points there. 

So instead of having a nice lead in the fourth, all the Clipper missed free throws set up a furious finish.  At 104 all, with 40 seconds left, the Clippers got caught in rotation and gave Leandro Barbosa a wide open look at a corner three, which he drilled.

After a time out, the Clippers came back with Kaman surrounded by four shooters - Novak, Butler, Gordon and Baron.  It wasn't the prettiest set - in fact, it didn't work at all.  But they did get Amare switched on Butler, who made the tying three off the dribble.  (And by the way, isn't it nice to actually have four shooters to put on the floor?)

Now tied at 107, with 11 seconds left, Nash went one on one for the go ahead bucket. 

On the Clippers' ensuing in bound play, Nash knocked Gordon to the floor.  No call and the Clippers called time out.  Then after they got the ball in, the refs finally called a foul on the Suns - but the Clippers had gotten so few calls in the quarter, they weren't in the bonus.  Side out of bounds again.  Final play, ball goes to Gordon, he tries to draw the foul against Stoudemeire on the switch, but once again ... you guessed it ... no call.

Everyone will focus on the final no call.  But it was the rest of the quarter that I found strange.  If the whistles are even remotely equal in the fourth quarter, the Clippers are in the bonus when Gordon is fouled with 3 seconds left and he's going to the line to send the game to OT.

But give credit to Steve Nash.  In the first half on the game thread, I was talking about his terrible plus/minus.  And the simple fact is that through three quarters the Suns made up ground when he was out of the game, lost ground when he was in the game.  But in the fourth, he just took over, perhaps sending a message to everyone that he's not done yet.  He scored 15 fourth quarte points and didn't miss a shot - he was 5 for 5 from the field, and 4 for 4 from the line.  He was, in a word, unbeatable.

This loss hurts, guys.  In fact, it reminds me a little of game two last season.  After losing game one to the Lakers, you figure no big deal, we're supposed to be 0-1 at this point.  Last year, the Clippers gave up a big lead to the Nuggets and lost in overtime, and the wheels came off from there.  The Clippers should have won this game.  If they make their free throws, they win.  If they catch a break from the officials, they win.  If Steve Nash misses a single shot in the fourth, they win.  But instead, they lost.  And it hurts.

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i have a feeling that

if we dont win the next game, we will end up not much better than last year (record wise). This may seem arbitrary, esp, because the Jazz are good. but whatever.

by andrewexd on Oct 28, 2009 10:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Nash knocks down Gordon and no call

Nash plays clean defense and the refs give him the foul because they ASSUME he wants to use the free foul the team has. WTF if with these tools. Kudos to these guys for keeping their cool, because I’d f**king beat these guys into a coma. How do they get away with terrible officiating

by dulciusEXasperis on Oct 28, 2009 10:49 PM PDT reply actions  

+1

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Oct 29, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Funny how people can watch the same game and see such different things

For various reasons many games come down to the final plays. This is one of those games. The Suns executed on offense and defense, and the Clippers did not. Poor defensive rotations led to a killer Barbosa three. Nash executed as he needed to. The Clippers did not. For whatever reason. This gets old quickly.

Forget about the foul calls. The Clippers had several chances to bring the game home and they did not do so tonight. No excuses.

by Jax on Oct 28, 2009 10:51 PM PDT reply actions  

I know I don't even give a sh**t about the foul calls, or lack there of, at the end.

But It’s still considered a missed opportunity. Though one that shouldn’t have happened if these guys are calling a “fair” game.

Of course we blew it. Of course we chocked at the foul line all f**king night. But that doesn’t excuse the fact that we could of been bailed out from our terrible play by a foul call that would of been called if we were damn near anyone other than the Clippers.

by dulciusEXasperis on Oct 29, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Baron Davis is garbage.

When will Clippers Nation come to that realization?

He is just awful.

There is no getting “it” back with that guy – it’s gone.

I've got nothing.

by bc56274 on Oct 28, 2009 10:52 PM PDT reply actions  

I would love to know

What MDSr told EJ prior to EJ taking the last shot. Very simple play. He had plenty of time to get to the rack and the ability to do so yet he panicked and jacked up a three. Poor execution.

by Jax on Oct 28, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would love to know how Dunleavy still has a job.

I think it’s about time to start the Lucas era.

I've got nothing.

by bc56274 on Oct 28, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

While not all of this particular loss falls on Dunleavy’s shoulders, there was certainly hs typical trends: losing a big lead, not adjusting to what the other team is doing, not utilizing personnel (i.e. Novak riding pine all game and then coming in cold with 1 min left as a decoy 3 pt shooter when he should have been in the game earlier to warm him up should a situation like that occur) and dialing up the same play twice which was basically 20 year old EJ taking it to the rim and trying to draw a foul. A poor final play IMO and yet another example of how horribly overmatched Dunleavy is most of the time.

by Dow Jones on Oct 29, 2009 2:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dunleavy drew up a play and got

his best scorer being guarded by the suns power forward/center. You can’t ask for much more than that

by johnnyoc21 on Oct 29, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

he prob said

take it in….

EJ just didn’t execute. It’s hard to blame this one on the coaching.

by Newton Pham on Oct 28, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

EJ's Confidence

Isn’t quite where it needs to be. It comes and goes, kind of like when he missed 4 out of 5 free throws tonight. He was definitely down on himself more than he should’ve been.

by ghost_ride on Oct 28, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was supposed to penetrate

He was supposed to go hard to the basket after receiving the pass. That’s what coach called. Just didn’t happen.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Oct 29, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

The larger point is that the team

found a way to lose, and part of it was blown defensive assignments. I dont think we need to be MDSr apologists here for what was a winnable game.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it was fairly obvious....

It really wasn’t that bad of a play. Take a look, they got the switch that they wanted with Amare covering EJ.

EJ could have smoked Amare but dribbled through the legs a couple times without going anywhere, which is what most bball players do when they don’t know which way to go.

He should have just chose a direction and attacked (a la Nash) knowing that Amare could not react.

Remember when I was talking about how EJ lacked the “killer instinct” or “Eye of the Tiger” and people were asking me for a reference point? It’s not certain right now, but chalk this one up as a reference point.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Correct...

EJ messed up, first off if Kaman was blowing pass Amare all night, why couldn’t EJ? I was anticipating a blow by Amare, Pass to Kaman which was being guarded by FREAK’N NASH. OMFG!!!

The coach is not to blame last night, terrible execution.

by sqrebck on Oct 29, 2009 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

bad comment...

Baron 12 pts 12 assists 5 i said 5 steals and 2 blocked shots…. He sucks!

by ChrisS.Oaks on Oct 28, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

The guy is shooting 24%.

Coming off a season where he shot 37%.

He is TERRIBLE.

I've got nothing.

by bc56274 on Oct 28, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK but look how else he is contributing

In 2 games against good opposition, he’s giving us 10 apg, 3.5 steals, 1.5 blocks and he’s only turned the ball over 5 times for his 20 assists.

Now I’ve only seen the Lakers game so far (will watch Suns on replay tonight) but I thought you could definately see a more determined Baron and he was penetrating well and was much less of a liability on D.

Yep, the shooting in the first game was terrible (and poor shot selection also), so that needs sorting but you have to give him a little bit of rope due to the bruised foot. I’m sure (or rather hoping), this will improve.

I’m happy with what I’ve seen of Baron so far.

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 6:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's not that bad, he does other things besides shoot

points and FG% isn’t the only category in basketball.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

But was he not brought here to lead in every which way.

last season he was terrible but still managed nearly 8 assists. Now he’s still getting those assist numbers with better defense (more steals) but his shooting is still were it was last season.

BD hasn’t averaged less points a season (last season) since his rookie and sophomore years. He was averaging 20 freakin points. We’re lucky when he reaches double digits now.

by dulciusEXasperis on Oct 29, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Declining athletic ability

Let’s face the facts and realize that Baron has lost a step.

He’s no longer going to be able to dominate like he used to using his athleticism to get to the rack.

He’s going to be a good, but not great PG and a veteran leader.

I no longer have expectations for the return of Boom Dizzle.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's a bit harsh to say that when he's got

a foot injury isn’t it? Yep, he may never be as explosive as previously but I believe he’s put the effort in over the summer and he’s got the skills to be a top 6/7 PG in the league still.

Wait until the foot heals and then judge him, I’d say.

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

His injury pass has sort of worn out on me...

I’m not being down on the guy…I just have mentally prepared myself that he will likely never return to his pre Clipper form.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah enough with the injury crap

That’s our go to excuse and it’s getting tiresome. Yes he does have an injury but it must be minor with all the minutes he’s getting. Still no excuse for the poor shot selection. Maybe for the poor FG%….we’ll see.

by dulciusEXasperis on Oct 29, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely not true

I don’t want to sound like the Baron fan club here because last year I thought he was really poor but you are saying we are lucky to get a double digit game. Just not true. Check the facts. We’ve played 2 games this year, one awful shooting and one below average shooting.
Last year, there were 9 games where we scored in single figures and a number of those were when he was coming back from the back injury. In fact he averaged just under 15ppg.
I don’t need to see Baron get 20ppg. We’ve got others to be the number 1 and 2 options. As long as he facilitates, creates for others, defenders well and gets around 15ppg then I’d be happy with that.
Who are you trying to compare him to? How many PG’s get over 20 ppg ? CP3 yep. Who else?
The main thing is for Baron he stays motivated and fit.

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

There are a few 20 ppg range scoring PG

Deron Williams is just under 20 ppg, Devin Harris was over 20, Tony Parker was over 20 as well. List will be a little bit bigger if you add combo guards like Monta Ellis, Jason Terry and such.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Oct 29, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Your Stupid iPhone App

Get some damn TiVo etiquette! I come home all excited about watching the game on my DVR and I get a boneheaded message on my iPhone app: Suns 109 – Clips 107!

Thanks Einsteins! You just blew it for me. I just uninstalled the app!

Is a little thinking too much to ask?!

by ThinkingIsGood on Oct 28, 2009 11:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Ha Ha Ha

ORRRRRRRR, you could have just hit the Customize button at the bottom and turned the Alerts off!!!

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 5:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bad Bad Loss

Team isn’t comfortable at the end of tight games and just isn’t oriented with winning yet. Tonight would have been a great start in proving they can put away playoff caliber teams.

Was thinking before the game that if we really were a playoff team this would be a game we should win. If not, then we’re probably not ready.

We definitely have the talent and depth to sniff the playoffs, but the team as a whole needs to develop some kind of confidence and proficiency when it matters. Tonight, Kaman & Camby were in over-drive and it still wasn’t enough.

by ghost_ride on Oct 28, 2009 11:34 PM PDT reply actions  

I was at the game

This game because we should have won if we made our FTs. Nash just shred our d on the pick and roll. Baron have a tough time keeping up with Nash all nite, but didn’t help where camby was also screening him out. I learned to stop complaining about the fouls because we never get foul calls ever.

I see this team going 0-4. It doesn’t help the team psyche, but there was a time where we were 5-0 at the beginning of the season then only 21 games, I think. It’s a long season.

Go clips!!

by Qlippers on Oct 28, 2009 11:41 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I think we can win of the next 2

Beating the Jazz on the road will be tough but we have a small chance, especially if Kaman keeps playing like he did tonight. The Mavs on Saturday is a good chance too, especially with Josh Howard out.

If were going to pick out selective plays, how about when EJ missed a wide open layup late in the 4th, that was a bad sequence too.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Oct 29, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

i was at the game, and this is what i saw/thought

1. TOO MANY MISSED FREE THROWS! technicals included…
2. too much standing around the arc by both Baron and Butler
3a. Kaman played well…
3b. but for every ONE good Kaman play, he made at least TWO bad plays
4. Phoenix did not run as much as I thought they would
5. Thornton got a standing ovation after the timeout after the turnover that lead to his fast break basket
6. Some guy next to me kept calling Bassy, “SeaBass”
7a. Baron was a leader, he kept giving tips/coaching teammates when they made mistakes…Kaman
7b. he brought them in into a huddle sometimes to talk
7c. he seemed to converse well and plan well with CMDsr
8. During the “Crazy Fan Cam” there was a row of 8 people holding up a Griffin T, once they knew they were on camera they dropped the shirts to reveal they were all wearing PHX jerseys
9. after Nash made the 3 to break the tie, during the time out fans around me kept calling “Novak”….he was in the next play (and only the next play…..by the way, I was able to record the Butler three!)
10. after the last shot, the entire stadium waited/called for a foul….after the no call was official…the stadium was a loud boo!

by KidJustin on Oct 28, 2009 11:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Kaman's playing well

Agree with that, but it’s more like 1 bad play for every 2-3 good ones at this point. His ability to draw the double teams early in the game sprung Camby.

by ghost_ride on Oct 29, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was there too...

Those girls wearing the Suns jerseys were funny…I booed but was laughing too…

No doubt about it, we snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory tonight and it will only compund if we dont start getting out fundamentals down:
1.) Free throw shooting
2.) Take high percentage shots (BD and Kaman especially were hurling up shots with plenty of clock left all night)
3.) Eliminating mental errors; several times defenders simply didnt follow their man leading to easy buckets, most disasterous was Baron losing Nash at the end of the game for what was the deciding score.

And this all comes down to coaching. I’m sorry but it does. Sadly, I for one dont have a ton of confidence that our HC is capable of cleaning this stuff up.

by Dow Jones on Oct 29, 2009 2:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

We need the...

SAVIOR—- HURRY BACK BLAKE!

by ChrisS.Oaks on Oct 29, 2009 12:13 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Coaching is still the problem

Why did Baron Davis wait until the second half to post up Steve Nash? Isn’t it MDsr job to make sure he does? Nash is great but he can’t guard Baron or Gordon underneath.
Why have Novack active and Collins inactive if your not going to use Novack in end of game/quarter shooting situations? at least Collins could gone in for defense at the end of the game.
These are the games you have to win. If you can’t beat the Suns at home without JRich, you can’t make the playoffs.

by ragman on Oct 29, 2009 12:33 AM PDT reply actions  

+1

Yup…I’m pretty much at the point where I think under MDsr we have a ceiling of about 35 wins; under a better HC, I think we could win 50+

by Dow Jones on Oct 29, 2009 2:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stop complaing to the Refs

Through out the whole game Dunleavy was going after the Refs, so was Baron. But you could tell the Refs were bugged by Dunleavy. Not once did I notice Alvin Gentry or any Sun player go after the refs. Let it go. Make your foul shots.

BTW, I got there pretty early tonite and was able to see Baron warm up & work with Lucas. I also saw Novak warm up. To watch Novak shoot the ball is a thing of beauty!!!!!! Baron, not as much. Novak in warm up- 90% Baron- 60%. I got to see Nash in warm up – 90%

by sttrumpet on Oct 29, 2009 12:52 AM PDT reply actions  

the guy seriously looks like lurch

They are probably scared of him. Seriously constantly going after the refs is for losers.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 5:53 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I can agree with this point...

going after the refs will get you nowhere. maybe that’s why they stopped gettnig calls late in the game on crucial plays.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's a method to get the refs to recognize certain issues that have been

continuing during the game. However, I don’t like complaining when the game is being played by a player.

Everybody does it. How can we just penalize Dunleavy on going after the refs while 100% of the other coaches doing the same.

by Qlippers on Oct 29, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

How?

The how is an irrational hatred for Dunleavy. Every coach does it.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, they don't

And labeling clearly legitimate criticism of the coach as “irrational hatred” only feeds the pomposity arguments.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Name one coach who has never ever complained about the refs

Then prove it. You can’t. Just give up on this one. You are wrong.

HOW someone can criticize one coach for doing something every coach does most likely is born out of hate.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Last night I watched

the refs get badgered by Dunleavy & a little bit by Baron. One time out seemed to be about Dunleavey going after the refs. The refs looked like they were bothered by Dunleavy. I did not see Alvin Gentry or Sun players going after the refs at all.

If you were an official at a game where the coach and players from one team were constantly questioning your job performance & harrasing you, I think that there would be a tendency to subconciously root & make calls in favor for the opposing team.

I was very suprised to see that Dunleavy did not receive one technical last night. The refs were definatley bugged!!

Focus on what is coming next is what is best for the team. 95% of the time that involves not yelling at the refs!!!! Work on the future with what you have & the calls will even out.

by sttrumpet on Oct 29, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's all fine

I’m not disputing any of that. What I am disputing is the claim that other coaches don’t do it when the calls aren’t going their way. Which is a silly claim on its face.

Why would Gentry go after the refs? His team was getting the calls they needed…

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

John R will defend everything MDSr does

It was obvious to me as well how uncomfortable MDSr was making it for the refs. Basketball is supposed to be fun. You have to respect the refs and your players and they will respect you.

And of course he sets up a strawman – we are not talking about coaches who occasionally complain about the refs. We are talking about our coach who constantly rides them and is very negative to them all the time. That gets old real fast my man.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

this game and last night, even though early in the season are going to hurt 75 games from now, when are fighting for a playoff spot.

most people are saying crap like, its a long season and it doesnt matter, the crappy refs wont make much difference over the course of the season. but its games like this , or especially last night which i think was way way worse ref wise, that will haunt us game 79.

also, i was watching the suns feed (i’m in the bay area) and their terrible (and i mean seriously god awful announcers) were praising the refs for not calling a foul on nash when he knocked over EJ in the last play. they were saying “yeah these veteran refs, are great, they would’t fall for eric gordon trying to bait nahs” and then went on a 2 minute long discussion about how mike dunleavy must have designed that play to have eric gordon flop on purpose while keeping his 20 second timeout in case the flop play didnt work. AND THEN one of the announcers said that ej should be called for a technical for unsportsman like conduct for flopping.

Seriously. I was already mad about how the game was going , but that just about drove me insane.

by hans007 on Oct 29, 2009 12:58 AM PDT reply actions  

haha

I was watching the same feed in the bay area. The Suns announcers were so frustrating to listen to. They were praising the second unit of the Suns team so much during the second quarter. I was just thinking…this is a second unit run by dragic…they’re not that good.
And they did make a huge deal about the last play where EJ got shoved. They were making it sound like the Clippers drew up this dirty play to fool the refs and how unsportsmanlike it was.

by screweb on Oct 29, 2009 1:23 AM PDT reply actions  

Ricky Davis and DJ....

Anyone no why Ricky Davis and DJ didint play…

by cauchi on Oct 29, 2009 4:54 AM PDT reply actions  

I would imagine Ricky didn’t because he’s bloody awful.

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 6:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

We lost, it sucks, get over it

Sure we lost a game that we should have won. The effort was there and that’s what we should take from this. If the effort in there on a nightly basis things will work themselves out.

People that only see Baron going 4-11 need to wake up and see what he brings to the game. He played tough the entire game and his stat line was great. Having a +12 last night was the best on the team.

by Hooch20 on Oct 29, 2009 8:23 AM PDT reply actions  

Well said on Baron

It’s a totally different Boom Dizzle we are seeing this year, whatever that FG% is saying after 2 games.

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

sorry

Effort is only part of the equation.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 8:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

You can say this though...

one of the more exciting games in the last two seasons… =]

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

EG looked like his legs were feeling the back to back. Twice he missed simple layouts because it looked like he didn’t have the lift in his legs he needed. I’m hoping anyway because those were gimmie baskets that our best player has to make.

Gotta love Kaman being Kaman, missing easy two footers but drilling the 15 foot shots.

Missing the three defensive Tech’s was a killer. Davis, Gordon, Butler – no one could simply put it in the hole.

Sure was fun watching DJ dominate the bench. Quite a contrast in coaching from Tuesday to Wednesday. On Tuesday our best player with no one who can replace his skills gets his fourth foul after dominating the prior three minutes and takes a seat. The game is quickly lost as soon as he sits down. On Wednesday Kaman got a fourth and stayed in. Then he gets a fifth and DJ quickly starts checking his laces to make sure he’s ready, but no, Dunleavy just leaves Kaman in the rest of the game. Was that the right move? I don’t know but I just found it interesting how Gordon was sat down with only four fouls in the fourth and Kaman was allowed to play with four and five fouls.

Terrible loss, we will head into Saturday 0 – 3, now they already have a must win on Saturday and the Mav’s will be pissed after being destroyed by the Lakers on Friday night.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Oct 29, 2009 8:50 AM PDT reply actions  

He read Clips Nation...

and all the comments about how ppl were pissed about game 1 and taking players in foul trouble out to lose momentum.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty disappointed in the commentariat this morning

This game was lost at the Clippers’ own free throw line. Period. The Clippers tied the possessions battle, completely out shot the Suns, and got to the line enough to win. They outran the Suns, literally beating them at their own game.

The players (and we can name names if we must, Davis, Gordon and Camby) lost the game at the free throw line. But why name names? Otherwise those players had nice games. As long as the clock was running, the Clippers looked great. Each player down the line did their part. The game plan was effective.

This game was actually good news people. Yes, this game was a loss, but they lost because of a fluke. They played extremely well. Be less myopic. This is not a look at the bright side comment. This is a look at what actually happened comment. If the Clippers shoot a normal FT% they would have 6, 7, 8 more points and the game would have been over long before the last shot.

Against the champs and another 40+ win team from last season, the Clippers combined to shoot 50%. That’s a GOOD offense.

You’re better than this Citizens.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 8:54 AM PDT reply actions  

John, we all know you love to look at the games based upon stats

and by looking at the stat sheet, box scores etc., at the end of the game then you can say everything was great, except for the free throws.

it wasn’t just the free throws “period”…I guess you could come to the conclusion that if htey had made them they likely would have won.

However what we are talking about is, taking in the fact that the free throws sucked and that’s just how it happened in the game, what we saw at the end of the game was not acceptable.

The end of game performance was not great. They looked defeated out there when Barbosa nailed the three…you could see it in their eyes as the camera panned through (except Sual, I think he was still pumped about his last three and he actually had faith in his teammates). They did not execute when in a high pressure situation.

I would not call it a “fluke”…Nash stepped up and become unstoppable, the Clippers did not match the intensity or willpower.

If you actually watched the game instead of bury your face in a bunch of numbers, maybe you would have caught this as well.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lame

I’m sure John R watched the game. Seriously is this the way its going to go all year? If you express an appreciation for stats you are a basement dwelling nerd who never watches the game? Likewise, if you avoid stats your a dinosaur who isn’t evolving to the new advanced metrics of the game?

Just express your opinion (you felt they lacked intensity) without adding in the anti-statistic rhetoric.

by Michael White on Oct 29, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not calling him a cave dwelling stat nerd

No hate for appreciation for stats, I’m an econ nerd and ibanker so I get my fair share.

It’s the tone that it was presented. “You’re better than this Citizens.”…“the game was lost at the free throw line. PERIOD…on to a sequence of stats”

Disappointed in what, our observation of late game heroics (or lack thereof)?

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

Poor carpenters always blame the tools. This isn’t really debatable. Coaches are paid to win games, to prevail at home when the team is in a position to win. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t hit free throws. The Suns can $ake similar arguments about what they didn’t do. Watch the last five minutes. We fell apart as usual. Look at the defensive rotations. Look at the offensive play calling. Granted BD is no longer the athletic player he was (signing for 5 years is a topic for another post) but there is no excuse for losing this game. None. You can’t see it in stats. You have to watch the last five minutes to understand what is clearly a coaching issue in my view. Even if EJ somehow got lucky.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 9:18 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

They are paid to execute the coach's plays

The coach has got to organize them and put them in a position where they can win. That’s his job.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with JohnnyOC above

Dunleavy drew up a play at the end which had Gordon being guarded by Stoudamire. That’s a favorable matchup for the Clips. EJ didn’t execute. That’s not the coach’s fault.

by Michael White on Oct 29, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Watch the last five minutes. We fell apart as usual.

I did, as well as the rest of the game. That’s how I that this claim is FALSE.

The Clippers lost the last five minutes by 3 points. Now exactly falling apart. THREE POINTS.

The evidence this morning is that you didn’t watch the game Jax.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

here we go again

Who cares how much they lost by? Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. You have to get out of the mindset that it is ok to take confort in losing when you should have won. And stay fron personal attacks. People will like you more.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 10:19 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

It was just free throws period

This isn’t just stats. I watched the game. I’m tempted to say something nasty here, but I won’t because I am a patient man. I can see some of you are upset and are therefore acting irrationally, so I’ll be nice. I’ll leave it at what they say about when you assume things…

The Clippers shot 55%. HOW MUCH BETTER DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO SHOOT?

The Clippers took care of the ball. AT THAT PACE HOW MANY FEWER TURNOVERS DO YOU EXPECT?

On the Barbosa 3. I don’t need a stat to tell me that Gordon got over-excited and went into some NCAA scramble mode and freaked out. It happened. It will probably happen again. So what? In his 84th NBA game it is unreasonable to expect that he (or Thornton, etc) would have Spurs-like rotation instincts. Its ok. It will come.

On the final play, it was the right call. Gordon, go make something happen. Its the same play every other team calls with less than 4 seconds left. Gordon messed it up this time. He needs to learn to get it right. He can only learn by doing. Its ok. It will come. It WON’T come if MDSr. goes to someone else. Dunleavy should go to that the next 30 times in a row regardless of outcome. Its the only chance Gordon has of getting it and of building his confidence in that situation. And the Clippers NEED him to have confidence in that situation for the future.

If the Clippers hit their free throws, neither of those plays matter. The Clippers played a complete game and a nice game. You guys are frustrated and its showing in the comments today in a big way.

Everyone just relax.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

see my post above

it was your condescending tone, that prompted my response.

hug it out.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pass

The day free throw percentage is an advanced stat IS the day people have turned off their brains.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

No one is saying the free throw perc is an advanced stat

I believe you are missing the point and are completely unaware of how condescending you came off or even why some may find you condescending to begin with.

It isn’t because woweee we think the numbers are too complicated. It’s pretty basic. A 16 year old can comprehend sports stats, even “complex” ones.

It’s because you point it out as the end all be all, matter of factly, and anyone who sees things in a different light gets a “you’re better than this.”

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

The way I interpret what John

has written is that there is quite a bit of negativity on the boards today regarding last nights game but if you look at the bigger picture, we played well generally, shooting a high percentage (how many times did we hit 50% last year) and had a high number of assists, blocks and steal so our game is in pretty good shape.

However, we didn’t perform at the FT line. That fact and the way we didn’t close the game out too well lead to this defeat.

However, we should be positive as a lot of the fundamentals were good in this game and those are the positive things we should take forward. Days of EJ shooting 3-7 from the line are going to be few and far between.

The fact we’ve been competitive against two decent teams is room for optimism for me anyway.

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can agree with this point

I’m not down on the team, I just felt they lacked killer instinct at the end.

Like I said though, John R comes off pompous to me.

Maybe it is his lack of social/writing skills, possibly a lapse in my reading comprehension skills.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe a lack of our FT skills!!!!

You are right about the killer instinct and I felt that last year. How many times during the first half of last season were we in the lead, then would have crap 3rd and 4th quarters and then just lose the game. We don’t seem to have the experience to execute plays when the pressure is on.

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Look

Don’t blame me that you are grumpy. My comment didn’t name anyone by name or put anyone on blast. YOU did that. I was tempted to go comment by comment shooting them down, but I refrained. People dissing Kaman for his game? There were silly things being said all over.

How about I put it this way? If I told you before the season the Clippers could win every single game if they would only shoot 75% from the line, wouldn’t you be stoked? The Clippers would have won this game, every single other thing aside, if they just took care of the normal work that pros are supposed to do at the free throw line. That is, in fact, the bottom line. The last second plays wouldn’t have even mattered because with 1 minute left the Clippers would have still been up 6 or 7.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not what you are specifically saying but the way you say it.

Starting a post with “Look” is pompous. Saying “you’re better than that” is pompous. Typing, “period (end of story)” is pompous.

The way you type will get under certain people’s skins, which is why you are always in the mix of heated arguments.

You just come off as an arrogant, condescending, pompous guy by the way you type. I’m doubtful that’s what you are like in real life.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Look

Get a thicker skin. Its funny to me how the people most likely to criticize complain the most when they perceive they receive criticism.

Its the internet and this are comments. Its short form. There is no time to convey tone hence I dont care.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

You shoud care

because you have some valid points on occasion but they are drowned in your pompous, holier than thou attitude.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

newt is right

You come off as pompous and don’t even know it. The problem has nothing to do with free throw shooting. They choked the game away at the end. Just like they’ve done for the past ffew years under this coach. The Suns can point to things they did wrong too. Stop making excuses. They will never be able to consistently close out games with MDSR as coach. They looked completely disorganized. Butler hit a 3 off a broken play or it wouldn’t have been that close. This is obvious stuff folks.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 10:26 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Even if you are right about the ending

I don’t see how you can highlight the ending without mentioning the huge problems at the free throw line. If the Clippers make shots at the free throw line, they win. If the Clippers play better defense in the last few minutes and take better shots at the end, they win.

Also, saying “this is obvious stuff folks” is incredibly pompous. I wouldn’t really care, except that you made a point of saying John R is pompous and doesn’t even know it.

by Michael White on Oct 29, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes there were contributing factors

But my point is that good teams close out close games at home. That is the defining standard in my mind of a good team. We looked completely disorganized and gave the game away. Again. That is very frustrating to me.

“This is obvious stuff folks” is only somewhat pompous, not incredibly pompous.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ha

Fine. If this season doesn’t go as planned, I think we’ll need a pompous scale to resolve these disputes.

by Michael White on Oct 29, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bigger than Free Throws & Coaching IMO

Is that the Clippers have lacked a true closer for many years now. On both sides of the ball actually. We don’t have anyone who can come close to Nash, that’s for sure.

The parts we have are great, but we just need to get better at end game situations and in expanding leads and keeping them in order to accomplish our goals.

by ghost_ride on Oct 29, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who is making excuses?

The reason they lost the game is free throws. The reason you won’t address this fact directly is because there is no refutation of it.

Its sad that you can’t tell the difference between an excuse and a reason. Without this skill why should anyone take you seriously?

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone is debating that

if the Clippers made their free throws they would have won.

I also don’t think anyone is debating that the Clippers need to work on closing out games.

Really, there is no discussion.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

The fact that you resort to personal attacks speaks volumes

About your knowledge of the game and your character.

Let’s look at your argument. “The reason they lost the game is free throws.”

To focus on just one item and tell us all that this is the only reason is incredibly myopic, silly, misguided, and yes “increcibly pompous” to use mbwhite’s vernacular.

Let’s review shall we (slightly pompous tone I know) a few reasons why the Clippers lost: (in no particular order)

1. Free throws
2. Barbosa’s great three from the corner which reflected a completely disorganized defensive rotation.
3. Steve Nash. Steve Nash. Steve Nash.
4. Grant Hill clutch shooting.
5. Completely falling apart in offensive execution at the end of the same – several plays.
6. We have no go to guy right now.
7. We couldn’t close out the game.
8. We let Nash waltz in for a left handed layup at the end.
9. Kaman missed like four dunks.
10. EJ missed an easy layup.
11. The Suns scored more than we did.

The point is that none of this really matters if we simply executed down the stretch. In my view we looked disorganized.

John R’s focus on only one makes sense – that’s the only one that shows up as an obvious issue in the box score. The surprising part is that he claims to have seen the game but still focuses solely on that one issue.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

To borrow Jax's tact

To focus only on me and make his comments only about me and MDSr shows what Jax is about.

Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate…

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Um, I was responding to your "free throws lost the game" comment

Feel free to commnet on the post.

And I’m a lover not a hater.

by Jax on Oct 29, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Does anyone realize how huge shooting 55% in our SECOND game is? In each of the previous two seasons, it took more than 45 or 50 games for us to do that!

by Gordon for President on Oct 29, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

No

And don’t you dare point it out lest you be pompous.

by John R on Oct 29, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm with John R on this...

I didn’t think his first post was pompous. I thought he was reacting to a lot of nonsense about coaching and some sort of fatalistic view of the team’s abilities. Some people were blaming BD’s performance (ridiculous, yeah he was 4-11, but a couple of those were clock-winding down shots, and 5 of them were three pointers. He played good D and had a double double. Get real.)
John R was pointing out that the team missed too many free throws. If they make a few more they win going away, bad officiating or not. It’s a no-brainer.

by John Raffo on Oct 29, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Absolutely agree. Gordon, Camby, and Rasual clanked away a number of three-pointers. Say what you will about lacking a killer instinct (may not have it yet, but it’s coming), if we hit even half of our missed FT’s the game wouldn’t have gotten that close.

by Gordon for President on Oct 29, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Suns announcers

I alsso live in the bay and had to watch the game on the suns network. They were saying gordon flopped so bad that we shoujd have been penalized. I’ve never known ej to be a flopper hopefully I get lawler on Friday night

by The Blake Griffin Era on Oct 29, 2009 9:12 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Scott Williams in particular...

was unreasonably biased throughout the game. He was so foolishly adamant about the EJ “flop” that even his broadcasting partner had to calm him down: “We actually don’t get a good view of the play from where we sit, but I love your passion Scott”

Still haven’t heard a milph broadcast in the new season, hope we’ll get it for the Jazz game

by ClipperLC on Oct 29, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Slightly Off Topic...

..but not much; I was INCENSED to see Blake Griffin walking around on the sidelines like nothing’s wrong. I know he’s probably experiencing very little pain, but bone stimulation DOES NOT WORK if weight is applied to the broken bone, increasing the outward pressure on the fracture. The PSP seems to help spark healing, but in the first few weeks, the last thing Griffin should be doing is walking around like normal. You and I could probably afford to do it (if we were in our early 20s), but we aren’t million-dollar NBA players who hope to put 245 pounds of pressure on an already-surgically-repaired knee in 82+ professional games a year.

This goes beyond my thorough disregard for Jasen Powell; the team doctors and, mystifyingly, Dunleavy seem to be saying, “OK, it doesn’t hurt too much, Blake? Walk around and greet the fans and go see your brother!” and whatever else. Don’t you want to take care of your prime asset? Especially when you had to be told how bad it was by an outside source? This is how things like Kaman’s 12-day injury became 12 weeks.

by bpr on Oct 29, 2009 9:14 AM PDT reply actions  

Wait a second...

Are you an orthopedist? Griffin’s being advised by Neal Elattrache who’s the Dodger’s team physician and did Tom Brady’s knee. You know more than him? Really? Need to hear your resume if you’re going to be that outspoken.

by John Raffo on Oct 29, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kamans 12 day injury became 12 weeks partly

because he lost his motivation on his rehabilitation and he partly admitted this in an interview

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

My Biggest Fear

Is that this team goes 0-5 or worse. It will be like last year all over again. Even though we lost, veterans like Camby and BD gave a ton of effort last night. If they know we have no chance of making a run, you know they will start mailing it in and sitting for any nagging injury and not playing all out.

It’s imperative that this team gets off to a good start or we will lose the vets just like last year.

By the way, MDSR needs a new playbook. He had several chances at the end of the game to dial up a play and get someone open and he failed everytime. No, I don’t count the Butler play. that was a broken down play, they were very lucky to tie the game there.

by The Blake Griffin Era on Oct 29, 2009 9:29 AM PDT reply actions  

Yes it is.

Minny at home? Have you seen their team! I think we’ve got a good shot at Dallas as Howard is out also.

Ours is a really tough start so I’d take 2-3 from the first 5 (without the ROY).

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Oct 29, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

and we were 5-0, I think two years ago

and only 21 there after. I would love a great start but I understand it’s also a long season. I don’t want to win the first 4 and win only 15 games after.

by Qlippers on Oct 29, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lost to the Celtics 100% healthy and ready to roll

And the raptors, who are a strong sleeper team. They should of beat the Raptors I suppose. Lakers was an expected loss on our part but we lost to a Suns team that had 0 bench.

I’ll take the Cavs rebounding over us anyday haha.

by dulciusEXasperis on Oct 29, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

One positive takeaway from the first 2 gms

The team’s general fitness to start the season is far better than the past few yrs and comparable to that of the 05-06 team. This has been well-documented throughout training camp interviews but it’s good to see the team being able to hold up physically and run/defend set plays at the tail end of back-to-back demanding games.

Kaman deserves special mention on this front – the frequency of those unwanted Mr. Flippy cameos has a negative correlation to his ability to focus, which is more or less dictated by his fitness level. What we see so far is a stronger Kaman who focuses on defensive rebounding, fights for most offensive boards, runs on coverages, and demonstrates his ability to finish with both hands. Whether he can keep up with this as the season goes on remains to be seen, but if he continues to play this role we’ll at least have a fighting chance against every opponent

by ClipperLC on Oct 29, 2009 10:02 AM PDT reply actions  

that

was a depressing drive home from Staples after. (on a completely unrelated note, my buddy’s season ticket rep is smokin HOT)

by Sim on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions  

What's her name...

Maybe I can get her as a rep too.

kidding. kinda.

by Newton Pham on Oct 29, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

sonya or something related to that, pretty brunette, real nice to, better than my rep, ugh

by Sim on Oct 29, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

No blow outs and the hardest opening schedule ever,

look we are Good this year maybe even the Greatest Clippers team ever and we will only get better as the season progress’s.

Game one:
We went it to The Fakers Home on their Ring Night and almost got the W and only lost by 7 not 38 like last season.

Game Two:
Our home opener against PHX Suns one time Elite Team in the NBA with two Time NBA MVP Steve Nash. Second Game of a Back-TO-BACK and we Lost that game, They did not beat us! We only lost by 2 points not like last season when we got Blown out Big Time.

Look at it this way there are 80 games left and we got to take them one by one.
We beat San Antonio this Pre-season and we have not won there since 2002 or so.

We will go in to Utah Friday and just play hard and get the W even though we have not won there since 1991 or something like that.

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Oct 29, 2009 11:06 AM PDT reply actions  

We need to work throughout the pressure in the 4th q. Play with confidence and makeup for those missed free throws. Seemed to me they panicked in those final seconds. Rasual Butler, played well through the 4th.

Clips' Nation
Eagles!

by Goosebumpz on Oct 29, 2009 8:46 PM PDT reply actions  

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