Clippers 101 - Golden State 108 - Preseason
by Steve Perrin on Oct 4, 2009 10:37 PM PDT
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PrintThanks to Citizen LJ Hann for putting a game thread in the FanPosts. All I can say is it's the first pre-season game, and I'm a little rusty.
Apparently it's pre-season for the score keepers too.
The box score I'm looking at from NBA.com shows some really interesting stuff. Having only heard bits and pieces of the game, I was trying to reconcile what I heard with the numbers. For instance, if as this box suggests, Baron Davis played a little less than 21 minutes, and Mardy Collins played just over 14, then that means there were about 13 minutes when neither of them was on the floor. That would seem to have been a lot of minutes at the one for Eric Gordon. And then there's the curious line of Al Thornton. A notoriously poor rebounder, according to NBA.com, he grabbed seven boards in under 8 minutes. He also scored 9 points and fouled out in what must have been the busiest 7:32 in the history of the league, preseason or no preseason. The fact that the team was minus 11 in that 7:32 is astounding. The mind boggles at the potential final deficit for the Clippers had Al gotten more minutes. But something didn't make sense about those numbers - they didn't add up. Literaly. The sum of the listed minutes played for the Clippers in the NBA.com box score comes out to 192 minutes - a full NBA game would be 240 player minutes.
So, yeah, it's pre-season. It's too bad that the data aren't reliable, because having missed most of the action, I'd like to use the box score to dissect some aspects of the game. But it's hard to put too much effort into something you don't trust.
Of course the box score is just wrong, and there's a correct one at ESPN.com, so I can stop kvetching. Gordon didn't play any point, and Thornton took a full 20 minutes to rack up those 6 fouls. So now that we've got a decent box score, what does it tell us about the game?
For those of you who recall the Clippers victory over the Lakers in pre-season a year ago, let's all remember this fact - preseason doesn't matter. But it's pretty obvious that you can't win a game when you commit 26 turnovers and 34 fouls.
For all of you citizens dreaming of a faster-paced Clippers team, there's good news and bad news. The good news is that this game was played at a fast pace - 101 possessions. Now obviously that's in large part due to it being against the Warriors - but on the season last year, the Dubs averaged 98 possessions while the Clippers averaged 92, so 101 is a little fast even for GSW. The bad news is there's no more surefire way to make your conservative coach flee back to his conservative game plan than to be sloppy with the ball. 26 turnovers is a nightmare.
Still there was other good news in the loss, primarily in the form of DeAndre Jordan. CMDsr and also Ralph have been raving about how good he's looked in camp - and I saw it myself at practice on Friday, if only for a brief glimpse. I was also in Vegas, and frankly if Blake Griffin hadn't been the story, everyone would have been raving about Jordan's improvement. (Even so, David Thorpe called him the most improved player in Vegas.) Tonight in Oakland he was 8 for 8 for 22 points, with 5 dunks, and also grabbed 10 rebounds. The five dunks are what you expect from DJ - what you don't expect is the jump hook, which he made twice. We've been wondering if the 21 year old Jordan might be the Clippers' center of the future - this game makes you wonder if the future is now.
So it's back to the training center for the Clippers, to see if they can do a better job of taking care of the basketball. The players had better be careful - I'm not sure how long a leash CMDsr is going to give them if they're going to turn the ball over like that.
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It is only...
practice games but there were still a lot of TOs. I am getting excited to see them play with their entire line up. BG and Marcus included
here are some video highlights. not really much to see though, but whatever better than nothing.
http://www.nba.com/video/games/warriors/2009/10/04/nba_0010900005_lac_gsw_1h.nba/
Morrow
If he got to play against us every game he’d be a 1st ballot hall of famer.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Oct 5, 2009 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions
You're right about "not really much to see"
They must have sent their rookie videographers, none of these highlights were exciting – they didn’t show any of DeAndre’s dunks, in fact they didn’t show any dunks. It was all pull up jumpers pretty much, and rubbing it in that Morrow is a Clipper-killer.
DeAndre for MFP - Most Funniest Player
Getting the Audio On-line
Had a miserable time trying to get the audio on-line. Anybody else have that problem?
Last season NBA seemed asleep on that particularly for Sunday games. Only NBA game list was Oct 1.
Really?
I heard it nice and clear on 980. What confused me was that Ralph did the play by play instead of that other one-man-show guy (Brian Siemens?)…
Online
I don’t know what show they were broadcasting on the web site, but it wasn’t a basketball game. I had to find a AM radio (didn’t know I had one, but turns out I do) to listen. The good news is that KFWB is a nice strong signal, at least in the LBC.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
i remember 710 would no play the games online last year
you have to tune into the NBA free audio league pass.
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
That’s true of most sports.
All sports now sell an online radio package so they had to eliminate the loophole of being able to turn to the network broadcasting the game and clicking the “listen live” button.
I wish they could develop a way where you could verify your home address is within the “home” market anyway since AM radio pretty much sucks (I can’t get a signal to listen to any game in my office.) In this case we wouldn’t really be gaming the system, since we are allowed to listen to it for free anyway on the AM dial, but the quality online is much better.
That being said, I know it’ll never happen. You’ll have to pay to listen online.
by Michael White on Oct 6, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
audio league pass is free
you just have to subscribe (provide email) to get it!
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
Wow. No kidding
Thanks Lawler’s Law and HVYDRT007.
by Michael White on Oct 6, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
yup!
last season i had issues with it on Firefox, but it worked great using IE. Also, you can listen to the opposing’s team radio broadcasts to get a different “homerish” view…It’s great to listen to it in the office during those 4:30 east coast tip offs!!
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
and live blog at the same time...
oh yea, and work of course!
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
NBA League Pass Audio is 100% FREE
“http://www.nba.com/allaccess/watchListen.html” >
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
What I don't like
As I read through this, having looked at the flawed boxscore last night, I start wondering one thing: what about our new stopper, the “Thornton alternative,” Rasual Butler.
So go to the real boxscore to fine 2-12, 1-7 from 3. That’s just the way it goes, first game, whatever, but it doesn’t appear to have slowed down any of the Warriors, although ARandolph and KAzubuike missed a whole lot of shots. The fact is that if Butler makes another 3pter or two, and the Clips don’t give the ball away a zillion times, it’s their game.
So I don’t like BD getting 7 turnovers and missing 7 out of 11 shots. It’s just preseason, yes, but it would be nice to send the right message, playing under control and getting shots for other guys. The 7 rebounds and 5 assists are nice, and Eric Gordon gets 19 points on 11 shots, and who knows, maybe some of those Butler misses from deep came from BD passes. Maggs gets 18 points on 11 shots, Gordon 19 on 11: advantage Gordon, because he can shoot the 3.
But when you look at how GSW wins this meaningless game, there’s an obvious constellation of events that stands out. Ace shooter Morrow goes 4-6 from deep. Ricky Davis, and I’ll give him credit for making 3-4 from deep, plays 26 minutes and gets 12 points on 9 shots. Steve Novak does not play. Perhaps Novak is tweaked, but it does say DNP coach’s decision.
The point being that CMDSr, in the absence of Griffin and Camby, started Thornton at PF and Butler at SF, and Smith backed up Thornton, and Davis backed up Butler and Gordon, and the Clips do okay from deep, 10-23, and thanks to DeAndre they almost shoot 50%, but the Warriors win because the best shooter in the league (Morrow) hits shots, while the best shooter on the Clippers doesn’t play.
Don’t like Novak playing behind Ricky Davis. Start Smith, or start Kaman at PF and DJordan at center, keep the normal wing rotation intact. Ricky Davis is just a little too high in the rotation for my liking, that’s for sure, and Novak is too low.
No biggie, but still.
i think we have to be careful not
To read.too much into this box score. This is the first preseason game.
I’m surprised that you are not encouraged by the R Davis line. If he’s healthy he is a good player. An x-factor for the team if you will. There is no comparison with Novak. Ricky can handle the ball, shoot and play some D. Novak is only a shooter and is a liabillity on D. If Ricky is healthy the Clips have a shot at the playoffs imo.
by Jax on Oct 5, 2009 8:24 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
Alot of teams have DNPs in the preseason. All 18 players in camp will get the chance to play in some games.
then it looks like today was Kareem Rush's time to showcase
….and i think he did a good job of lighting it up and proving he deserves a spot on the team.
let’s just see how Roberson and/or McNeal in the following games. either of these players look like a good Butler/R.Davis “wingman sub insurance” candidates. (although I favor in order: Rush, McNeal, Roberson)
Interesting
I think you get to choose between Ricky Davis or Kareem Rush, not between Rush or Novak. I myself would probably pick Rush over Davis, based on what happened with Davis last year.
I may say it again elsewhere, but Ricky Davis feels like fool’s gold or catnip to me, a bit too tempting based on the reward. If we can see him play and he’s active and athletic and breaking down guys and making plays, okay. But my view is that he seems like he’s going to be okay, and he might break out at any moment, but we went through all of that last year. On to the next guy. With Rush you don’t have the idea that he might take over the game, as Ricky was able to do in the past. He’ll hit some shots and play a little bit of D (more D than Novak, but that’s not saying much).
But the whole idea of playing other guys who aren’t on the roster doesn’t make sense to me, unless you’re resting people. Kareem Rush, if he can play really well for the next couple of weeks (and maybe if R Davis plays poorly), has the slightest of chances to make the team, but it’s just not going to happen. We’ve seen this before. The roster is set. We saw Lamond Murray gets dozens of minutes, when he was never going to make the team, while Korolev made fleeting appearances. I don’t get it.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 5, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Murray Korolev comparison
Doesn’t fit, you have to consider that Korolev was already under contract while Murray was a FA. In the same vein, Ricky is already under contract and Rush isn’t. I doubt Rush makes the team BUT we could pick him up during the year if we have some injuries to our wings and he’ll know our system from being here for preseason.
FA in 2010.
I agree
I’m pleased with the R Davis line and I disagree with Zhiv’s take that Novak should be starting ahead of Davis.
by Michael White on Oct 5, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Also
You have to remember that Dunleavy is a reactive coach and we were playing the Warriors, a run and gun quick team. If you start Kaman at PF, you will get run out of the building, but you will be able to pound it inside. Dunleavy will always try to match up with the other team (to his detriment at times).
I need to see more of Smith, but my general impression is that he’s a bench player.
warning: interpretations may be wrong because i only looked at the box score...
It looks like Smith barely played, but that could be due to the dub’s small line up and/or DJ’s awesome play…either way i hope we see more of him in the coming games to correctly get a good feel of his play.
I would actually love the have R.Davis higher on the depth chart than Novak…if Ricky Davis plays like " Get Buckets " rather than " The Chef ." And his play in the last game shows that he is closer to the first than the later….but we’ll see how it goes from here on out. He still has a lot to prove to win the trust back with everyone, but he is a proven scoring starter that is willing to come off the bench for us, while Novak is a (shortly) proven sniper that (should) come in for us during specific times.
Ricky Davis and Kareem Rush’s threes appear to be very refreshing in light of Butler’s 1-7 performance, however citizen zhiv’s assumption that it could have been BD’s fault is completely possible. Either way having alternative options for your alternative (assuming Butler is a sub) is always a good sign. Hopefully R.Davis continues this play and we can pick up Rush (or Roberson/McNeal if they play even better…but i doubt it). (I know, I know….its WAY to early to tell, but) I just don’t want Rasul Butler to become Rasul Bricker this year.
Turnovers are the only real negative point in this game, but again its preseason. Even though there was not as much roster turn over this offseason that last, there is still adjusting to do and hands need to be refreshed on how to pass AND catch the ball. The return of Bassy, pass recipients (Blake & Marcus), and more play time should lead to better results quickly.
Boom and Thornton did a good/great job on the boards, as did DJ in light of Marcus’ absence. However Kaman only had 6? Did DJ overshadow Kaman for 25 mins and then Baron and Thornton steal boards away from “the big man in the middle” during the other 2? With Marcus or Blake (or even DJ) in the light up, I sure hope Kaman doesn’t start thinking “hey they are good enough to rebound, they can get the boards…I’ll try again later.”
….Anyways is the next game televised?
Slight Adjustment
I wasn’t saying that BD was at fault with regards to the 3 pt shooting (of Butler). I was actually saying that Butler was at fault, and BD’s line might have looked better if Butler had made a couple of more shots.
My point on BD was that he was probably forcing things, with 7 turnovers, rather than making his own personal statement that things would be different right out of the gate, and being careful and thoughtful with the ball.
Great analysis this morning by KA over at Clipperblog about Baron and our hopes and fears, btw.
by citizen zhiv on Oct 5, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Smith got 3 fouls in 6 minutes
which is probably why he didn’t play much. He probably, as you mentioned, had trouble keeping up with Anthony Randolph and the assorted SFs the Warriors played at the 4, thus the foul trouble. I bet we see more of him in the non-Warrior games.
Also, sorry to blatantly pimp my site, but for any interested in my take on the game: http://fullyclips.com/2009/10/05/analysis-of-clips-1st-pre-season-game/
by FullyClips.com on Oct 5, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
People come on, this is the very first pre-saason game,and training camp just started 5 days ago, and there are people writing the team off already,are you serious. The reason for training camp and pre-season is to get ready for the regular season, and see what mistakes you have and work on them, that includes the turn over problem they had last nignt. They have this time to figure out what combination of player work well with each other and to build chemistry.There are seven more pre-season games to go,and several days in training to fix whatever mistakes they may encounter over the next several weeks,relax and focus on the positives that came out in this game, DJ for one, people relax and let’s get ready for OCT. 27th the season opener.
i'm not sure we are "writing the team off"
but more we are looking at where we fell and seeking improvements on those aspects. I’m sure all of us will continue to do this through out the preseason and maybe some/most of the season, but I wouldn’t say the team is written off.
If we only focus on positives then we will be only as good as we already know we are. If we constructively criticize our mistakes, then we can improve and be better than we ever thought possible.
Plus how could anyone write off the Clippers without seeing Blake play yet?
"and there are people writing the team off already"
I don’t see anyone doing that.
by Michael White on Oct 5, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I've gotta say something about this canard
that MDSr’s boring, plodding iso offense is somehow indicative of a conservative approach to offense. It’s not. There are many different structured offenses, including offenses that are more conservative, that have nothing to do with an offense that focuses on isos.
So when you say that alot of turnovers, in a preseason game against the decidedly up tempo Warriors, is going to somehow make Dunleavy (I’m sick of using abbreviations for everyone) run back to “conservatism” what you really mean is that he’s going to run back to his historically unsuccessful archaic iso offense theme.
If that’s the case, then we have little hope for success this year. I trust that’s not the case.
An analogy on the iso offense onservatism canard
It would be like using windows 95 on a computer to run 2009 software programs.
Not sure if that works but you get the idea.
We shot better
49.3% FG and 43.5% from downtown. Turnovers and fouls can be worked on obviously…
One other positive to look at is Anthony Randolph’s shooting night (3 for 13). I’m guessing a lot of that was due to Al Thornton checking him.
They also scored over 100 pts...
Something they only did 26 times last year. It should be noted that they won 15 out of these 26 (57.7% = not too shabby).
If you’re wondering, here is who they played those 26 times with the outcomes:
Atlanta Hawks (W)
Chicago Bulls (L)
Dallas Mavericks (1W and 1L)
Denver Nuggets (3L)
Golden State Warriors (1W and 2L)
Indiana Pacers (1W and 1L)
Memphis Grizzlies (W)
Milwaukee Bucks (W)
Minnesota Timberwolves (W)
New Jersey Nets (W)
New York Knickerbockers (2W)
Oklahoma City Thunder (2W)
Phoenix Suns (3L)
Portland Trail Blazers (W)
Sacramento Kings (W)
Washington Wizards (W)
Upon Reflection
I don’t know that I was able to explain very clearly what bugged me about the Clippers/CMDSr’s approach in this first, meaningless game. And I probably still won’t be able to.
It’s easy enough to see how it happened. With both Griffin and Camby out, you’re down two power forwards—three if you want to count Brian Skinner. The Warriors (especially with Brandan Wright gone) start Anthony Randolph at PF, with Jackson and Azubuike at the wings.
The PF choices are Smith, Kaman (with DJordan at center), Novak, and Al Thornton. You don’t want Randolph to go nuts (he scored 41 points in a summer league game), and it seems like Thornton is probably the closest matchup to him. It seems to solve the problem of whether you should start Thornton or Butler (start both), with Butler guarding Jackson.
I have a couple of problems with this. In the first place, it’s reminiscent of the days when CMDSr would start FElton at center against the Suns, playing small, and the Clippers would still get killed. This always bugged me. If you’re going to have some trouble stopping them, what about the trouble that they’re going to have stopping you? Is Anthony Randolph going to be very effective stopping Craig Smith or Chris Kaman? If it were you, wouldn’t you rather see what DJordan and Kaman look like out on the floor together against Biedrens and Randolph, with Thornton at SF (against Jackson), than what Kaman-Thornton-Butler looks like?
The second thing is that Al Thornton is not going to play any PF at all this season. It’s just not going to happen. With Griffin, Camby and Skinner, along with Smith and Kaman and Novak, I’m pretty sure that his PF minutes will be zero. So why would you do it now? You have guys out, okay, and a seeming hole at one position. And I said that I can see how it would make sense, above. But what it does is that it messes up the rotation of the wings. Instead of Thornton or Butler, along with Gordon, you’re taking a look at Thornton and Butler and Gordon. And I just said it: I really don’t think we’ll ever see those three players on the floor together all season.
The result of this tinkering is that it created a lot of minutes for Ricky Davis and Kareem Rush. I suppose you could say that that’s fine, since those guys have reasons to play hard and make the most out of the time they can get.
But this rotation-that-will-never-happen raises more questions than answers. Craig Smith gets 6 minutes. Novak doesn’t play. Eric Gordon doesn’t play any PG, doesn’t go up against Stephen Curry (which, as a fan, I would like to see). It seems to me that by twisting around the lineup worrying about GSW, all you’ve done is shown how you can lose to the Warriors by playing their game. Yes, Craig Smith had 3 fouls in his 6 minutes, so maybe something wasn’t working (was he guarding foul magnet Maggs by chance?). Wouldn’t you rather see Craig Smith foul out and see if Novak really is such a defensive liability, or if those guys can settle in and really help you on offense? Having 3 PFs out in a preseason game seems like a time when you would play your backup PFs. If Novak gets torched on D, so be it. Maybe it’s just me, but I’d rather see what happens with Novak than seeing so much of Ricky Davis and Kareem Rush. Or DJordan and Kaman playing together. It’s preseason.
It’ll be great to have Griffin out there, solving all of these problems. But from what I can tell, just by a boxscore, all we got to see was what we already knew, which was in fact one of yesterday’s topics: that CMDSr is a lame coach when he has injured players. Baron Davis didn’t get off to a great start, and CMDSr started in disappointing fashion too, both of them showing the old, rather than anything new.
agreed
Dunleveay/Clippers should STOP matching up against teams and instead force teams to match up with us.
(but Blake Griffin should fix that since him at PF can show us as both a big, strong lineup AND a fast, athletic lineup at the same time!…its like an optical illusion!)
Thornton should not play PF (again Blake Griffin will fix that)
However, Thornton did a good job playing PF his rookie season, mainly because he was able to out quick the opposition. So I wouldn’t say that Thornton playing PF this season would be a “never.” I guess if you want to look at things in a positive sense, it’s a way to see Thornton in the PF slot and Butler in the SF slot at the same time JUST IN CASE some random act forces them to be in that position during the season.
Similar to “I know Novak is liable on D (and quite possible be proven during camp) but since it is preseason I’ll test it out. No harm no foul and I’ll know better by the time the season start.” A similar statement can be said by replacing “Novak” with “Thornton” and “on D” with “at PF”
Either way, Thornton played poorly (based on ClipperLC’s post) as a PF and will have to be thought of again before playing that position this season. Experiment practically complete. Doesn’t necessarily mean anything bad (or more bad?) about CMDsr’s coaching. (Except that he still chooses to play opponent ball instead of clipper ball).
And a better analysis of Baron Davis is needed before we can judge completely/correctly.
On Thornton as PF
We know that Thornton did pretty well as a PF during his rookie season, just after the Kaman 2.0 era, when FElton was out, when Paul Davis was hurt and Reuben Patterson was let go, and then Tim Thomas was hurt, and the choices were Thornton, Josh Powell, and Nick Fazekas, while the Clips had a healthy Corey Maggette and Cat Mobley on the roster. He can play the position, sort of, and that’s part of what I was acknowledging, that matching him up against Anthony Randolph was just too tempting, given the alternatives (Smith, Kaman, Novak).
But I say “never” because CMDSr had to make the decision to put him ahead of those three guys, while there were three more unavailable PFs, Griffin, Camby, and Skinner. It’s not that Thornton can’t play the position, and yes, “some random act” might force this lineup. But the Clips would have to lose two super important key players, Griffin and Camby, for it to even begin to make sense.
But with the Clippers, you never know.
Safe to say,
pretty disappointing first look for the newest Clippers (Sool, Smith) but hopefully we will see more of the New faces (Bassy, BG) and a less sloppy game on Friday.
Rush impressed me and hopefully he can check his attitude to get a spot.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
To their defense....
Smith was in foul trouble because of A.Randolph. (Thornton was also a victim by the way).
Sool did not shoot the 3 as well as expected but…2 out of 7 was last second desperation type shots, while the few can be accounted as “hey, its preseason.” While his offense wasn’t sinking, he appears to have played solid D; in comparison to Q.Ross, his play was far from disappointing. Box scores can be deceiving.
Source: ClipperLC’s post
The good, the bad, and the ugly
The Good:
- Deandre 22 and 10, double double. (Proving he would have been a lottery pick in the past draft had he stayed in college another year.) Hasheem who? Jordan who?
- The team actually shot 49%. (a very rare acomplishment in the MDSR era)
- 10 3 pointers made from a team that has struggled from the perimter for the last 5 years or so.
The Bad:
- Allowing the Warriors who have zero inside presence to get 33 FT’s, this is unexcusable.
- Anthony Morrow continues to own the clipps.
- BD continues to shot at a horrible clip, 4/11, 1-4 from the 3. This guy needs to take a page from Tony Parker and Chris Paul. He has never had a great jump shot, specifially from 3, yet he continues to settle for jumpers when he should get in the paint where he is great at finishing any playmaking for his teamates.
The Ugly:
I know it’s preseason, but 26 turnovers should never happen, espically against the worst defensive team in the NBA.
I really hope Karim Rush makes the roster, we have always been short for shooters. Let’s hope this was just a case of getting caught up in the Golden State brand of basketball and not a sign of things to come.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Oct 5, 2009 1:02 PM PDT reply actions
"Curry wants what Baron has."
That is an interesting caption for the image. Haha.
Does anyone else see a resemblance between R.Davis and Rhino?
http://www.clipsnation.com/photos/clippers-101-golden-state-108/308177
On the other hand...
Curry had 9 assists and 5 steals in 24 minutes. Hell of a start. I won’t be cheering for him, but he’s one to watch.
While we’re on it, Jonny Flynn went 0-5 last night, but managed 14-15 from the line, and 7 assists in 26 minutes. Did anyone here catch his performance in that 6 OT game against Connecticut last year? OMG.
I saw the Orange-Uconn game
total epic but unfortunately Hasheem Thabeast fouled out but flynn played somewhere near 10000000 minutes
http://lucasnbablog.blogspot.com/
Wolves shot 56 FTs in that one
Sweet merciful crap. 56? Please hurry back, real refs.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Injuries
Has anyone noticed that there are some major injuries already in the NBA, Injuries that will impact their teams, Brandan Wright, and now Robin Lopez for the Phoenix Suns, just to mention a couple, so the injuries that our team is suffering right now seem minor compaired to some of the other teams injuries.the two that i’ve mentioned will be out for extended durations
Update
Good point. LATimes said this morning that Camby and Telfair are both cleared and back to practicing, while BGriffin is still being held out, perhaps another day or two, but he should still be playing on Friday.
It sounded from the note on Camby’s tweak like he would be back very quickly, but the Telfair note is really good news. With Baron getting extra preseason minutes and then Collins as a backup, and wondering about Gordon playing some PG, it was easy to forget that the Clips have a new and exciting backup PG on the roster, a very effective passer who has shown improvement towards being a solid pro the last two seasons. I wouldn’t want Telfair as the starting PG, but as a backup he’s an improvement over what the Clips have been able to put on the court the last few years (injured Shaun Livingston backing up Cassell aside).
by citizen zhiv on Oct 6, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Telfair may be an improvement, but
I wonder whether he’s good enough to be a backup on this team with BD’s injury history.
I suspect that if R. Davis is healthy he will play some backup PG before Gordon does.
by Jax on Oct 6, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I feel the same way—that Telfair is a nice backup, but if BD gets banged up, he would not be the ideal guy to start a whole bunch of games.
But BD is feeling great right now and let’s start by seeing what Telfair plays like. If the Clips can get a couple of good, full-roster preseason runs in, then BD’s minutes will be reduced quite a bit and we’ll get to see more of the backups, Collins and Gordon at PG and maybe Ricky Davis.
One note from the GSW game, btw, was that Gordon was bringing the ball up a fair amount while he and BD were in the game together.
I think the Clippers are pretty stacked at the Guard position,
at more then 50% of the roster at Guard or combo 2 & 3 with at least 4 back up PG’s (Bassy, Mardy, EJ, RDavis). Maybe we should look in to another 4/5 combo big?
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Interesting conclusion
First of all, there are only 5 positions … so if you’re counting the bodies that can play three of them, it would be logical that more than 50% would play those spots, since they represent more than 50% of the team on the floor (60%, to be exact).
Secondly, huh? Are you counting guys like Kareem Rush and Jerel McNeal and Anthony Roberson, who aren’t going to make the team? Of the 14 guys with guaranteed contracts, only 6 of them fit your description of guard/wing. Al Thornton is a 3 oh might play some 4, but not a combo 2/3. Steve Novak is a 3/4 who will get more minutes at the 4. So, by my count, that’s more bigs than littles.
And let’s be clear – calling either Gordon or Ricky a back up point guard is strictly in the emergency sense.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Talking lil's in general,
not the training guy’s but the 14 man core roster.
We have more guards BD, EJ, Bassy, Mardy, RDavis, Sool(really a 2 more then a 3) then reliable Big’s.
I just think we need another Reliable Big that’s all. Not counting BG who do we have that can play without injury, Camby? BSkinnz? Kaman?
Looks like DJ and CSmith only?
AT is no way ever going to be a 2 but Novak plays D like a Guard but has the size of a big so I think he will play at the 2 some this season.
As far as Rush if he play’s the same as Pre-Season Game 1 he will get a Slot and be the 7TH. Guard.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Question about "emergency sense"
Until a few people brought it up just now, I hadn’t considered Ricky at the point. Let’s suppose that BD goes down for a while. Where then do you see Ricky on the PG depth chart?
Ricky at the point?
…maybe he meant we trade for Ricky Rubio cause if somehow Ricky Davis is running the point we would have a play like this:
Davis (not Baron) brings the ball up…throws it at the backboard from half court….while everyone is stunned he collects the ball at the 3 point line….he fires……“BIINgoo..?”
Ralph, “What is he doing now?” Mike, “He is arguing with the ref and the score keeper…”
Ricky, “I should have got a rebound, assist, AND 3pt FG on that play alone!”
….“and i got fouled! I should be shooting a Free Throw!”
Disagree
The Clipper backcourt is not as strong, imo, as their frontcourt.
Davis and Gordon are the only frontline-level players in the backcourt. Telfair is a good backup, an improvement in depth from previous years. Telfair will probably exercise his player option and stay with the team next year, but as BD gets older—and his recovery/redemption from last year is still very much in doubt—the Clips need a strong, starter-level PG to join the young core of Griffin-Gordon and maybe Jordan. That’s why going after Sessions made sense, but it was good they didn’t overpay him. And it’s also why it’s disappointing that the Mike Taylor experiment didn’t work out. It would have been great if he was that guy, but he wasn’t.
Mardy Collins is a non-rotation utility player. I like the guy a lot, and want to start a Mardy Collins fan club, mainly because I assumed he was a total throwaway scrub when he came over in the Knicks deal. I like him better than I liked QRoss, and he might make a significant contribution. But again, he’s relatively mediocre and he’s definitely expendable. You can do better than Mardy Collins, but he’s not a bad 11th or 12th man on the roster.
Ricky Davis seemed like a nice addition on paper before last season, but his 0809 work was downright ugly. Others around here seem more bullish on the Ricky of old coming back than I am. I’m keeping expectations very low. I’d be happy for him to be behind Collins on the depth chart. I’d be happy for Kareem Rush to play well and beat him out, but that’s not going to happen. Of course I’d be really happy for him to play great. The main thing is that he has a tidy little expiring deal. It would be nice for the Clips to replace him with a good, young, well-rounded player.
That leaves Rasual Butler, who is a nice piece, a good complement to Al Thornton and Eric Gordon, and a much better alternative than Mardy Collins or Ricky Davis—we hope. But he’s still not a linchpin, sure thing kind of guy. He could be a very good role player, which would be great.
The Clips went into the offseason with a number of needs, including backup PG, a backup to Eric Gordon, and questions about Al Thornton. GMMDSr was able to plug these holes more or less successfully, but they’re stopgaps, and remain areas for future improvement. You need to have a really strong top 7 or 8 guys to be successful in the NBA, with two or three stars, and the Clips are on their way to getting there, but they still have a ways to go. BDavis has to step up. They’ve got a great group in Griffin-Kaman-Camby-DJordan, backed up by CSmith, BSkinner, and Novak, and you could say that their frontline is very very strong, especially if Kaman comes out strong and DJordan turns out to be rising as quickly as it seems. But the Clips are far from stacked in the backcourt, and they are in fact, as Jax points out just above, one Baron Davis injury away from seeming more than a little bit thin.
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