from my seat - section 114 @ the oracle
Hi All, first time postor here, long time reader, and even longer time (17-yr) Clips fan now working in the Bay Area. It appears the game was not televised so hopefully this brief take on limited time can help you read beyond the box score. Will focus on the SFs here and I will try to write more later today:
Thornton vs the Alternative: Starting Thornton along with Rasual means Thornton was slotted at the PF spot. It was another example of Dunleavy's stance of matching up to the other team's lineup which I haven't been a big fan of. The thinking is that Thornton should be used in place of Craig Smith to cover the faster, longer, and improved Randolph, but the experiment failed miserably as Thornton often overcompensated and earned quick fouls on Randolph (DJ actually ended up guarding Randolph on a few occasiosn in the 4th and did a great job containing him, more on DJ later). Al also chucked and rushed too many shots to my liking - he was likely trying to make up for lost time due to fouls but, other than a towering dunk and a fortunate make on a last-second fadeaway three those are the same ill-advised shots that make clips nation cringe over the past two seasons.
Rasual on the other hand lived up to his stopper reputation and meshed well with a BD, Gordon, Kaman lineup. It comes as no surprise but he easily wins the comparison with QRoss - stronger, good one-on-one coverage and played good transition D. He did not risk too much on the passing lane yesterday so that part of his defensive repertoire remains to be seen. The box score did not do him much justice imo, as two of those were inexplicable end-of-the-clock passes from teammates when they actually had the better shot. The rest of the misses were decent looks from improved spacing and more willing passers (most notably EJ, who was generally effective with his drive and dish yesterday) which have to be considered as good shots regardless of makes or misses. If the starting SF job will be decided based on preseason I'd say Butler 1 - Thornton 0 so far.
Misc on the wings:
- Correlating to reports, Ricky Davis does appear more healthy and seem to have an extra bounce compared to last season. citizen zhiv mentioned he'd much rather see Novak, but regardless of rationale for Novak's DNP I was glad to see Ricky getting time at the sparkplug role with reasonable effort on defense.
- Speaking of Novak he was first to come out for the shootaround at halftime and he missed a grand total of two shots in a four and a half minute span. Never hurts to have more shooters.
- Aside from a ball slip plus overpenetrating and failing to pass out of 3-teams on ~ 3 occasions (1+3 = 4 TOs), EJ was everything we wanted to see after all the offseason praises - great shooting, quicker and more athletic with a slimmer frame (even attempted an alley-oop), penetration at will and looks to pass with more trustworthy options.
***************
My apologies for the incomplete post earlier today (esp. for leaving you hanging on DJ) but that's about the best I could do within a 10-min break. Getting a much longer break now and as promised here's more on what I saw...
First on DeAndre Jordan: It's easy to get overly excited about a freakish athlete/huge physical specimen in the NBA game, especially one with great charisma. But even the most conservative assessment has to concur that he has stepped his game up by more than a few notches. I was initially skeptical about training camp hypes on DJ and was slightly bummed about another Camby knock but DJ's play yesterday quickly wiped those thoughts of mine aside. Not only did he seem more filled up compared to end of last season but, more importantly, he was coordinated, demonstrated decent footwork, and knew how to practice patience with that newfound bulk - there was nobody in the Dubs who can contain him and he knew it, so instead of trying to carry too much momentum and charge into players, he used his size and quickness to manuveur in the paint and goes for the highest percentage shot possible (dunks and hook shots, not the wild circus shots which he sometimes took last season). Equally impressive was his FT shooting - which was a huge hindrance to his game and one of the bigger reasons Skinner was able to get the amount of mins he got last season. It was a positive change of form which translates to a smoother release, so I do not think his relative success at the line yesterday was a one-off. Some might be concerned with his five fouls, but most of them can be attributed to help defense situations, when some of the defenders lost their guy (namely Randolph and Maggette) and DJ gets stuck in the foul area. In fact he played solid defense throughout the game, in particular when he and Kaman shared the paint in the 4th and he did an admirable job guarding Randolph and changing shots. Camby's elbow shot is still a valuable piece of the offensive arsenal and his shape remains to be seen, but DJ should definitely be above Skinner in the depth chart and it's reasonable to expect more minutes for DJ to keep Camby fresh throughout the season. A more bullish outlook would be using him as a game changer/off the bench sparkplug/on the Dwight Howard path, but I don't want to go there yet until I see more of the same.
On Chris Kaman: using the version analogy, he was largely playing at the Kaman 2.0 level with a few legacy bugs, namely his tendency to charge into defenders. But there was a clear effort to limit his dribbles and hustle on defense. He appeared stronger and even went for the dunk on two occasions (got fouled on both, but under similar circumstances last season he would have gone for a jumper, hook shot or take an extra dribble instead of taking it to the hole). He also demonstrated his ambidexterous attribute with two hook shots - one on each size. Dunleavy went away from running his offense thru the bigs in the 2nd and the beginning of the 4th, which happened to be times when the Dubs gained on the +/-. As the numbers suggest Kaman and DJ have more than showed up.
Baron Davis: there's no denying that he showed up in much better shape than he was at any point during last season but he needs to practice a more tempered approach. Here's an account of him I wrote on another site:
"It was clear from watching yesterday’s game @ oakland that Baron is on a mission – driving hard to the rim, diving for loose balls, refusing to settle for long jumpers (before the 4th quarter), and simply doing the best he could to avoid starting out on a bad note once again. The passion and aggressiveness did rub off on other guys, most notably EJ, DJ, and Kaman. However in the process he tends to go overboard with his aggressiveness and made the kind of plays which unnecessarily put him at higher injury risk. This was more pronounced when the team was behind by double digits in the 4th and he began to force the issue (he tried jumping into Randolph to relive the AK posterization moment whereas a simple spin move/drop step would get him an easy 2. They clashed and fell hard onto the floor instead and fortunately both guys were OK).
Perhaps he’s just giving his all-out physical approach to the lead guard game – the only approach known to him – one last shot to see how long he can ride it out for, and here’s hoping that he is willing to flip the switch when the time is right. That’s “the hope”. But if he doesn’t watch himself and “the fear” holds, then another injury setback could put a irremediable blow to his bruised ego and sparks a downward spiral to his career trajectory. He still has control over the situation and a tempered approach is key to avoid the latter scenario."
Again it's great to see him pushing himself hard, but you get the sense that he's trying to show too much all in one game. This also explained most of his 7 TO's, from fancy pass attempts into the paint which got deflected to driving into multiple defenders. Here's hoping that he will complement his fitness and aggressiveness with a more cerebral touch.
Miscellaneous (con't):
- Craig Smith wasn't getting enough touches, if at all, for me to make a fair assessment; and on the one play that was set up for him where he had a clear look at the shot, he hestitated and tried to force the issue when the defender showed up which resulted in a shot smothered by Randolph. He clearly needs more work with the other Clips bigs as the team's spacing was horrible when he was no the floor, which explains his -5 on the +/-.
- Kareem Rush was a much welcomed spark when he came in at the 2nd qtr and, together with Ricky Davis and EJ, led the 3-pt barrage. He was generally ineffective on the 2nd time he saw the floor however (first half of the 4th qtr) - he took an Al Thornton-esque fadeaway at the elbow (missed) and was porous on perimeter defense. It wasn't bad enough to cost him his shot at taking the 15th spot though, as long as he keeps his sweet shooting and willingness to run open.
- Mardy Collins played 14+ mins and he was what we have more or less expected - didn't make any huge mistakes, but also didn't do much to help. In fact he's the kind of guy you won't want to have to start the 2nd if you've already fell behind after the 1st, because it almost seemed as if he would hold the team from making a rally.
- Many mentioned EJ didn't play any point yesterday. But in reality Baron deferred dribbling up the court and distributing duties to EJ about 20% of the time. EJ was also on his own to close the final 2 possessions of the 3rd quarter without making any mistakes.
- Finally on Blake (Superior?): He was at the pre-game warm-up and showed consistency at the 19-ft range, but was often distracted by conversations/interviews. Like the shot form though and looks to me like he was on the right side of 6'10 in person.
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boxscores can never live up to the real thing
Thanks for the post ClipperLC!
i was sad to hear all that about Al Thornton….but relived that Rasul Butler’s stat line doesn’t mean he is showing signs of being Rasul Bricker.
Great that we can get a confirmation on R.Davis returning abilities!
Looking forward to more info from you, especially on why BD had 7 turnovers, how great was DJ really, was Kaman under performing at least on rebounds, what can you say about Craig Smith in his limited minutes, and does Kareem Rush look like a keeper.
Great post
This is really helpful. You promised some more comments on DJordan, but left us hanging!
Would love to hear more about Baron Davis, Stephen Curry, even Mardy Collins, and Kaman too. I suppose it’s good to hear that Ricky Davis looked active and healthy. I’m going to have a hard time getting over his futility from last year. Also great to hear about Rasual Butler.
Thornton needs to be used carefully, given chance to succeed. Throwing him out to match up to the other team, in a role he won’t be in during the regular season, just seems like a bad idea in retrospect. Oh well. DJordan pretty exciting news—looks like he picked up where he left off in summer league.
just added more as promised ;)
I just added content by editing the original post, pls let me know if there’s a preferred way of doing this at the clips nacion.
I share your sentiment regarding Ricky D though, I believe it’s going to take some consistency before clips fans can let him off the hook
Nice
Great effort, great work. This is a really nice portrait of a game that none of us got to watch and few of us listened to. We knew that DJordan played well and looked good, but your comments and enthusiasm are exciting to hear, and it’s also nice to know that Kaman looked good too. Throw in Baron’s effort and the solid steadiness of Gordon, and it seems like the Clips should be formidable once Griffin, Camby, and Telfair are all ready to go.
Main Thread
Write something nice about Steve and I’m sure you’ll have access to main page posting in no time. Keep posting good info and stay in line with him, zhiv and mikey.
Otherwise Steve may just ask you to write something (game recaps usually when he’s away or if you can be at a game that no one else can attend) and he’ll move it to the main page if he approves it first.
Good post! Always like to read firsthand accounts.
Comment
I think he’s referring to a comment on the thread on the main page, which obviously he should be able to do. Not sure what might have precluded that. But great FanPost. Worked out well for everyone.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Nice post
Thanks for the first hand feedback.
If the starting SF job will be decided based on preseason I’d say Butler 1 – Thornton 0 so far.
That doesn’t seem fair. You acknowledge that Thornton was out of position at PF whlst Butler (it seems) struggled at his actual position of SF.
Sounds expected
Thornton can be a good scorer, but we have other people who can score the ball without making boneheaded decisions that kill momentum.
Like Sool,
shooting 2-12 and 1-7 from Three in 35MIN.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
by HVYDRT007 on Oct 5, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Valid point
but considering the warriors style and judging from the game it’s legitimate to say it was 2 SFs versus 2 SFs. We can make it Butler 1/2 – Thornton 0 if that’s more fair?
Look at the numbers,
AT=1, Sool=0
If it wasn’t for the Replacement refs AT would not of fouled out but Sool would of still stunk up the floor.
Now I see why NOH gave him up so Cheap and Easy but mostly Cheap.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Another Bay Area Clipps Fan
Solid post, thanks for the info.
I wasn’t able to make it to the game last night, but i will be there for the friday game in November.
Hopefully we can get some more clipper fans in the bay, I just moved here from So Cal last year and the clipper attendance at both games was pitiful.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Oct 5, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions
Are you going to the game in November?
Have you made it up to Arco for a game? I’ve never been there yet.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Oct 5, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
it's on a fri night so most def will be going
Wear your clips jersey, shouldn’t be too hard to tell the few reds from the yellow sea
I haven’t been to Arco yet either, a pal up in folsom once told me it’s not worth the trip so i never really considered it.
Just to add
A buddy of mine saw the game and stated that Baron Davis was in phenomenal shape. He was a little tentative but he’s on the right track.
Baron in Good Shape
It’s nice to know that Baron is in good shape, but he continues to have horrible shot selection. He settles for the jump shot too often when he should be taking the ball to the basket. I wish he played more like CP3 or Tony Parker, these guys realize they can’t shoot from distance and constantly pound the paint.
He has never shot a high percentage from the perimter. I really hope he leaves the shooting to guys like Gordon, Novak, Butler, Rush etc.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Oct 5, 2009 2:01 PM PDT reply actions
Shooting
Well in my opinion, I think it is harder to teach Baron how not to shoot than it is to teach him how to shoot well.
I’m sure this is why he is constantly shooting with Coach Lucas. Plus I’m sure he’s the type to be more motivated about the latter.
“Bad” shot selection will no longer follow him (at least not as much) if he learns to makes all of the shots he takes.
Sool was 1-7 from 3PT. land,
with most of his shots uncontested straight away face up knock down opportunity’s, Sorry even based on this one game there is no way he (Sool) takes AT out of the starting line up.
MDSr should and would of started,
BD
EJ
AT
DJ
Kaman
if the same situation with no BG and in Regular season.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
DJ at PF?
During the season, wouldn’t it make more sense to start BSkinnz at PF (assuming Camby and Griffin are hurt) ?
by Michael White on Oct 5, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
DJ over BSkinnz in a Heartbeat at 4 or 5,
I was saying in this situation and BSkinnz was hurt/out too, so not available. But all of our team would of played in it was a Reg.Season game, the Guy’s injury’s are not that bad but good precaution for Pre-season to sit them out.
You see towords the end of the game when MDSr put DJ at the 4 and Kaman at the 5 we had our way with the relatively small GSW team, if we would of started that way we are talking Clippers blow out and a LAC win but MDSr wanted to tinker a little with the Pre-season and you see the result.
It’s Pre-Season if you win Great, if you lose it’s still Pre-Season.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Didn't Blake warm up?
I was told by my nemesis that BG did warm up, although we already knew he wasn’t going to play it has to be considered a good sign that he even dressed. Also good to see that he traveled with the team even while resting.
FA in 2010.
Yeah
If that’s true I definitely like that he traveled with the team. Hopefully he’s good to go on Friday, thinking of attending the game.
Yes, BG did infact warm-up
He was very sweaty and had ice on his knee when he was on the bench. Blake most def warmed-up, but he did not play. He will most likley play next weekend vs. the Blazers.

'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Oct 6, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks a lot for the Summary
ClipperLC, you gave us some good visuals of the player’s performances. I’m hoping that Portland airs their game with us on Friday, so we can get a sneak peak of Blake in action.
You mentioned Baron went into Randolph
The first thought that went through my head is…
“can he still elevate”
… is he leaping out of the building doing windmill dunks (or look capable of doing it)?
The people hanging around...
… clipsnation are great! When there’s no decent recap anywhere, a reader understands the need for proper information among fellow fans, joins the site and writes an excellent report.
God stuff ClipperLC!
I always thought that
part of Kaman 2.0 was that decent wing jumper he had, which was almost unguardable at the time. Also,
it's true, and nothing wrong with him taking the jumper as long as it remains decent
it’s even better if he takes it strong to the hole given the room instead of resorting to jumpers. the loss of aggressiveness (due to injuries) was apparent on both ends of the floor last season, which was a factor in relegating him from 2.0 status.

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