Clippers at Memphis - Game Preview
by Steve Perrin on Nov 18, 2009 12:13 AM PST
in Game Previews
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2009/2010 NBA Regular Season
vs.
4-8 2-8
FedExForum
November 17th, 2009, 5:00 PM
FSN Prime Ticket, 980 AM
Probable starters:
Baron Davis
PG
Mike Conley
Rasual Butler
SG
O.J. Mayo
Al Thornton
SF
Rudy Gay
Marcus Camby
PF
Zach Randolph
Chris Kaman
C
Marc Gasol
The Back Story:
November 7th, 2009 in LA - Clippers 113, Grizzlies 110 - Recap Box Score
The Big Picture:
Well, there goes the 3-0 road trip. On this first multi-game trip of the season for the Clippers, the opening game looked like the toughest one. Oklahoma City had just beaten the Spurs in San Antonio, but the Clippers came away with a somewhat unexpected victory there (made all the more surprising by the fact that OKC then beat the Heat in Miami). The second game, in New Orleans against the struggling Hornets playing without the injured Chris Paul, looked like an easy one - so of course the Clippers lost. Now it's the 2-8 Grizzlies. So who knows what's going to happen? If the Clippers don't rebound better than they did in the Big Easy, the outcome will be easy to predict. LA was -15 in rebounding against a poor rebounding team - Memphis is a good rebounding team, so it could get really ugly if the Clippers don't bring a little more effort to the glass tonight. Also, Baron Davis and Chris Kaman have to play well - much better than they did last night. The Clippers are not very good right now, and they're certainly not good enough to win when either Baron or Kaman are sub-par.
The Antagonist:
The Clippers are traditional choice for NBA dysfunction and have been for years. But this season, you really have to look elsewhere for all the best drama - and Memphis is probably second only to Golden State. Things were in danger of quieting down a bit in Tennessee with Allen Iverson now out of the picture - but not to worry, the Grizzlies went out and signed Jamaal Tinsley. If he doesn't work out, they can always call Stephon Marbury. So yes, Chris Wallace has traded for Zach Randolph and signed Allen Iverson and Jamaal Tinsley in the last few months. That's a trifecta of signings the likes of which we'll probably never see again. Tinsley will likely make his Grizzlies debut (and play in his first game in over 21 months) tonight against the Clippers. It's kind of too bad they keep bringing the circus through - the Grizzlies have a very nice starting unit and should be able to win some games if there weren't so many continual distractions. Rudy Gay killed the Clippers 10 days again at the start of the Palindrome games - we'll if the Clippers have figured him out at the end.
The Subplots:
- Iverson out, Tinsley in. Do the even need a point guard that badly? Conley does some things well, and Marcus Williams has been OK. I've heard it said that they consider O.J. Mayo point guard material. So what's the deal with bringing in Tinsley? Isn't that sort of influence the last thing they need on a young and talented team?
- The weary and the rested. The Clippers played in New Orleans last night. The Grizzlies haven't played since Saturday. In fact, the Clippers have played twice since the last time Memphis played.
- DeMarre Carroll. I'm sure other bloggers think the same thing about their teams, but doesn't it feel like the most obscure players play great against the Clippers? Devin Brown last time against the Hornets, Bobby Brown this time. Well, DeMarre Carroll is 16 for 50 on the season - but he was 5 for 6 against the Clippers in LA. It matters too, because the Grizzlies have no bench to speak of - but with Carroll making shots, the game in LA stayed close even when the Memphis starters were out.
- Zach Randolph versus Marcus Camby. Randolph created some issues for Marcus early in the first meeting. Zach's combination of size, quickness and range is a lot for anyone to handle, truth be told. Craig Smith had a really good game against the Grizzlies 10 days ago, and matched body-types with Z-Bo. Don't be surprised if Smith gets an early call.
- Defending Gay. In LA, with Eric Gordon still in the lineup, it was Rasual Butler getting the assignment to defend Gay. Tonight it will be Al Thornton, since Butler will have to guard Mayo. I actually like the idea of Thornton on Gay better. As we've said before, Al's actually a pretty good on ball defender - he's just not very good at helping and rotating and what not. Plus Al has a lot more strength than Sool, so he'll be able to stand up to Gay more. It also wouldn't be bad to bo at Gay on the other end - he's never been to interested in defense, so at the worst you make him work on defense, and maybe you get a lot of productivity out of the matchup. At any rate, trying to slow down Gay will be a key for the Clippers in this game.
- First wing off the bench. With Gordon still out and Thornton back starting, and with Kareem Rush tearing his ACL last night in New Orleans, it will be interesting to see what MDsr does with his rotation. Will Novak be the first wing off the bench? Or will it be Ricky Davis? Do you play Baron at the two along with Bassy at the one.
-
Movie Quote:
Mr. Burns, The Simpsons episode Two Dozen and One Greyhounds (1995) - With the reference to Grizzly bear underwear, I couldn't resist a song from the Simpsons for the second straight game. Excellent.Some men hunt for sport, others hunt for food.
The only thing I'm hunting for, is an outfit that looks good...
See... my... Vest. See my vest.
Made from real gorilla chest.
See this sweater, there's no better, than authentic Irish Setter.
See this hat? 'Twas my cat,
My evening wear vampire bat.
These white slippers are albino African endangered rhino.
Grizzly bear underwear,
Turtle's necks I've got my share.
Beret of Poodle on my noodle it shall rest.
Try my red robin suit, it comes one breast or two.
See my vest. See my vest. See my vest. - Get the Grizzlies perspective at Straight Outta Vancouver.
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Wonder what Mardy Collins has to do to get some court time
He’s not great but did’t he do fairly well on defense?
by dulciusEXasperis on Nov 18, 2009 7:30 AM PST reply actions
Not a bad game to get Mardy some minutes
he’s another big wing who’s defense should be better against Gay than Butler’s was in the first meeting. I don’t think Ricky and I know Novak can’t guard Gay, so unless Thornton is going to be on the floor every second Gay is, it probably means Collins gets some PT tonight.
by Michael White on Nov 18, 2009 7:50 AM PST up reply actions
Being on the active list is a start
Mardy wasn’t even active last night, Skinner was. Now that the Clippers have three players hurt (that took almost a dozen games, they’re slowing down) the whole ‘who should we put on the inactive list’ thing isn’t a problem anymore. Usually isn’t with the Clippers – more like ‘do we have 8 healthy bodies who can dress to avoid a forfeit.’
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Nov 18, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
"more like do we have 8 healthy bodies who can dress to avoid a forfeit."
Haha very true. Sill, how is Skinner activated over Collins? I know rebounding has been a weak point but we’re loaded with bigs. I would say a bigger problem has been our perimeter defense. Rush seemed to take the role Collins had last season but now with Rush out, I think Mardy should be seeing some at last 10 minutes tonight. I’m not impressed with Butler’s defense and think Al does a much better job (though they both are pretty terrible keeping up with the switches, and both fail to close out on the perimeter shooters). We’re at the point we’re every bench player, especially guards, should get a chance just to see if they bring it more than the starters.
by dulciusEXasperis on Nov 18, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
Collins tonight
With Rush out, I fully expect Collins to get a look tonight. MDsr is clearly not comfortable with Ricky and is looking for alternatives. Those alternatives were Rush and Novak until last night. So Mardy will get his chance now.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Nov 18, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
re: Skinner
To me, BSkinnz should have already played by now. Jordan is just not getting it done. Was listening on the radio yesterday, Jordan came off the bench and got 3 fouls in 3 minutes. No wonder Kaman has the most minutes played in the NBA so far. That’s just not getting it done. At least BSkinnz can play somewhat competent basketball out there.
Unless we are done with the idea of playoffs. In that case, Wins and Losses are irrelevant, so getting Jordan the work over BSkinnz is the way to go.
by Michael White on Nov 18, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
That's not an excuse for Kaman's minutes though
If your position is that Skinner can do a better job and hold the fort while Kaman rests, then even after Jordan gets 3 fouls in 3 minutes, Dun can very easily just put in Skinner. It’s not like you’re only allowed to have one backup for one position.
Kaman has way too many minutes b/c Dun is riding him in his desperate attempt to win every game at all costs. Especially now, with pretty much no other option available (at least before Thornton’s resurgence), Dun can’t run his predictable post offense w/o Kaman.
I agree. I’m not absolving Dunleavy from any of this. Skinner could have and should have gotten some playing time this year. It’s just strange. Your point about Kaman is correct as he’s riding him in hopes of winning games, but playing Jordan seems to be a move for the future. I’m no big fan of Skinner, but surely at this point Skinner can give you more quality minutes than Jordan can.
BTW, I’m pretty sure last night was the first game Skinner even dressed this year. Perhaps Dunleavy fell in love with Jordan’s summer league and pre-season performances, so maybe Skinner dressing last night was MDSr’s first realization that Jordan is not a professional basketball player yet.
by Michael White on Nov 18, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
I wonder if Kaman's lackluster numbers last night were a function
of burnout / overuse. Anyone see the game and can comment on this?
DJ
I have to say though, I think it’s important to give DJ real minutes and see what he can do. They have to see if he’s improving or just doesn’t have it. I think it’s worth playing him over Skinner. It’s not as if Skinner brings a ton more.
I agree with you that he can give more quality minutes than DJ can at this point. I just think it’s important to at least try to develop the youth as well. For sure playing DJ is a move for the future, but it’s not like you can only do things for the now or for the future.
agreed
DJ is still very inconsistent…
but all that means is that for every so many bad games he has a couple great games. giving him more opportunity will help change that inconsistency into consistency (hopefully its good consistency).
With Skinner, we will get consistent production. But its just enough at best. Don’t expect anything from him…just a veteran body holding down the position.
And maybe eat up the little guards that come his way? (literally).
Skinner, DJ and Telfair
Good topic—it’s worth considering BSkinner and how he might fit, especially with a number of guys down, and rebounding problems.
The Club Optimism view of Skinner is the one that remembers him being drafted by the Clips as a promising PF and young banger. It seems that he evolved into something else, more of an undersized backup center. It’s weird because the bigs positions seem like they should be interchangable, and they are to a great extent, but there’s still a slight distinction. And it’s curious that when BGriffin went down we didn’t spend more time discussing what Skinner might contribute as a PF. There was Camby and CSmith and even Novak, and we might have discussed Kaman as a PF of sorts, perhaps playing alongside DJordan. Maybe the distinction is that some centers can play PF (Camby and Kaman, along with Skinner), but some can’t (DJordan), and some PFs can’t play center (Craig Smith). Whatever.
The bottom line is that the Clips have been underperforming on the boards all season, and last night a huge spotlight was put on the problem. It’s worth considering how Skinner might be able to contribute.
Obviously DJordan has gotten a lot of his minutes, but those are the backup center minutes. Yes, perhaps he would be more productive than DJordan, and there are probably some second half situations where it would be better to play it safe with Skinner rather than DJordan. But Camby can also take those minutes, can’t he? Except if he’s being overplayed at PF, partly as a result of Griffin’s absence. So maybe the best approach would be to limit Camby’s minutes at PF but give him backup center minutes. Give the PF minutes first to Craig Smith, and second to Skinner. So you would have some Kaman-CSmith minutes, followed by Camby-CSmith, followed by Camby-Skinner, followed by Kaman-Skinner. That’s just one way of doing things. I don’t want to shut down DJordan, of course, so that complicates things. I don’t need to see the Skinner-CSmith lineup: I think I’d almost always rather have DJordan-CSmith. But the DJordan backup minutes haven’t been very stellar, and the Clips need to win games and try different things and get production and fix their rebounding woes. Skinner has some skills that can be utilized, especially as a PF. Not sure that he’ll have much value once Griffin comes back and gets going, but perhaps he should have been closer to the rotation in these early games.
It was noted how Telfair seemed extraordinarily ineffective last night, with a terrible +/- in limited action. Part of his problem is trying to force things with DJordan, throwing up two or three lobs that don’t work. Telfair has to take the Thornton approach, finding the things that work, trying to penetrate and hit open guys, being selective. DJordan in the middle is like catnip to him, he thinks that the pass over the defense is going to work, but they’re not having enough success with it.
by citizen zhiv on Nov 18, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
Whoops, hit post without the numbers
TS%
Butler- .480 (essentially the worst on the team)
Thornton- .524
PER
Butler- 8.7 (this is not good)
Thornton- 11.5
Kaman still leads the team in PER at 19.2. Kaman also leads the team in TS% amongst starters (not-injured) at .581, though Gordon (injured), DJ and Smith all have a better TS%.
Butler has pretty much been a disaster. It was bad before when he was struggling at SF (I argued he’s probably less comfortable as a SF anyway) but with Gordon down, he hasn’t been able to pick up any of the slack. Steve said it in a recap the other day, Butler is killing this team.
by Michael White on Nov 18, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
seems to happen to most players surrounded by great PG's
They make the game that much easier. Thought BD would do that for us a bit more. He’s just not a legitimate shooting threat. Though Him and Kaman have connected very well, finally.
by dulciusEXasperis on Nov 18, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Possibly
but Butler is getting wide open looks and just isn’t hitting them. On that aspect, I hope his game just gets going. It’s not like the Clippers are asking for a ton out of Butler….
by Michael White on Nov 18, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
LOL - and you're right about Butler just needing to knock down his shot
I suspect he’ll get it going.
Please, Please, PLEASE Coach and GM MDSr. No More Butler!
the dude is a Brick on Defense and Offense and all the posters on ClipsNation that were writing off AT and brown nosing Butler see why I never liked this guy from the start.
Last year Butler was not all that and this year is more of the same.
When have you ever seen Butler Dive for a loose ball? Take a charge? Hustle? The guys work ethic cant go off the charts because it hasent even made the charts.
Last game we did well with Novak at the 2 spot and I would like to see more of that.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
He's from Philly....Butler is grimmey
or so he says…
I agree what you say about what seems to be a lack of aggressiveness. But I wouldn’t count him out. Butler is still a good player and should be our 6th man. I think he did a better job backing up EJ. I see him more as a player that will let the game flow to him, he needs to see how the game is going before he can act. Watching a few minutes on the bench to start will get that for him.
Thornton is the guy that can go right from the get go. He will get his shot right away, no questions. (except those shots aren’t always the smartest). But right now he’s go it going. Whether he continues or not, when EJ returns, Butler should be benched. And that is not because Thornton is playing so well right now, but the fact that I think Butler players better as a reserve than a starter.
OJ Mayo is going to kick our butts tonight
30 point game for him exploiting our perimeter D I would imagine.
God, I’m so clipper depressed right now. I need Blake back to snap out of this……..
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
"clipper depressed"
LOL—hilarious. We all know the feeling. Well said.
by citizen zhiv on Nov 18, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
wow that was season 2? classic episode
anyways.. is anyone else extremely annoyed with how baron is just chucking up shots? last night he was 3/12 on 3 pointers. thats just terrible. other than that hes looking good, he just needs better shot selection. i mean, he was one assist off of a double double. Also, if Kaman can learn to pass better out of the double team that could really help the team. I wouldnt mind if he picked up a few more rebounds either.
anyways.. is anyone else extremely annoyed with how baron is just chucking up shots? last night he was 3/12 on 3 pointers. thats just terrible. other than that hes looking good, he just needs better shot selection. i mean, he was one assist off of a double double. Also, if Kaman can learn to pass better out of the double team that could really help the team. I wouldnt mind if he picked up a few more rebounds either.as for butler, he didnt look that bad last night. 8/12 FG% not to mention 2/2 3pt%. however, when gordon comes back, thorton should start for sure with Butler backing up the 2. Im also glad to see Novak get more minutes. Its a shame to have that good of a shooter not play.
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