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Can Chris Kaman be an All Star?

Kaman 3.0 in the ASG?  Probably not.

More photos » Danny Moloshok - AP

Kaman 3.0 in the ASG? Probably not.

When Yao Ming was lost for the season and Shaquille O'Neal was traded to Cleveland this summer, the Western Conference lost their two most visible centers.  Yao had been the West's starting center in the All Star Game since Al Gore invented the internet thanks to a billion online Chinese fans, and Shaq was the back up in last year's, where all he did was win the MVP.  But with those two stalwarts out of the Western Conference picture, suddenly the question of an All Star center in the West is wide open.

As early as July, citizen ClipperPride was calling this a golden opportunity for Chris Kaman to step into the void.  Little did any one know that Kaman would open the season averaging over 22 points and 10 rebounds a game, while shooting 60%.  So now the question seems completely reasonable - can Chris Kaman be an All Star?

Boilerplate caveats - it's early, I'm probably jinxing him, your mileage may vary, void where prohibited, side effects include painful gas.  It's crazy early in the season to even be talking about something like this, after just five games, but Milph have been talking about it right out loud, so it seems like it's fair game.

Star-divide

Does He Have a Case?

Absolutely.  Obviously the season has just started, but if Kaman can keep up anything close to this level of productivity, he's certainly got a solid case on paper.  His scoring average of 22.6 points per game is better than any center in the league, with Andrew Bynum of the Lakers second at 20.8.  Kaman is also averaging over 10 rebounds, shooting 60% from the field, 77% from the line, and has blocked 9 shots in 5 games.  His numbers stack up with anybody.

But while we're on the subject of numbers, it must be said that a few other guys have had fast starts to the season as well.  I'll talk about Bynum in a moment - he's the likely ASG starter, for reasons other than his performance, which has been great so far.  In addition to Bynum and Kaman, Marc Gasol of the Grizzlies has had an incredible start to the season.  In fewer minutes (at a faster pace), he is averaging 19 points and 12.3 rebounds per game, while shooting even better than Kaman from the field (65%!).  He's been a free throw machine so far this season, going to the line almost twice as much as he did as a rookie.  If you want to pick a Western Conference center after a week, Gasol might in fact be the guy.  One presumes that he'll level off soon enough, but of course the same could be said of Kaman.

Meanwhile Emeka Okafor, newly arrived in the west, has had a nice start to his New Orleans Hornets' career.  He's currently playing 10 fewer minutes per game than Kaman which hurts his raw numbers, but his per 36 averages stack up well at 17 points and 12.6 rebounds.  He's also blocking a lot of shots.

Other centers will no doubt insert themselves into the conversation as the season progresses.  Nene had a great season last year, and could certainly put up some impressive stats in Denver.  Mehmut Okur has been hurt early, but he's a former All Star capable of putting points on the board, which gets noticed.  And while he's not a traditional center, Al Jefferson plays the position for the Timberwolves, and one assumes he'll have a productive season as he works his way back into shape following last year's knee surgery.

So while there are plenty of candidates, right now Kaman is as good as any of them.

Other Considerations - Fan Balloting

Of course no two people look at statistics the same way.  More importantly, the All Star starters are determined by fan balloting, and I'm not convinced they look at much of anything.  Hopefully the NBA will remember to remove Yao's name from the ballot when it is issued, because if he's on there, I would not be surprised if he wins the voting.  Assuming that indeed Yao's name is missing, Andrew Bynum is pretty close to a lock as the starter, assuming he plays even reasonably well.

Why?  Given that the fan balloting is essentially a popularity contest, exposure is the key.  The Lakers are on national TV more than any other team in the league, so more casual fans know who Andrew Bynum is.  Some random fan in Miami, punching out his vote for Dwyane Wade, has Western Conference players to vote for as well.   That fan is simply not going to vote for Chris Kaman (or Marc Gasol for that matter) because they probably don't even know those names.  The thinking goes something like this: "Bynum plays with Kobe Bryant, so I'll vote for Bynum." 

Happily, Bynum is playing well and might actually deserve the honor that he'll likely receive whether he earns it or not.  Hopefully this won't be like A.C. Green in 1990 or B.J. Armstrong in 1994 where completely mediocre players rode the coattails of superstar teammates and media overexposure into ludicrous ASG starts.

Kaman has almost no chance at being selected by the fans because his profile is too low.  Bynum is the obvious favorite, but regardless, for Kaman to make it to Dallas it will have to be as an All Star reserve.

Other Considerations - All Star Reserves

The Western Conference coaches choose the All Star reserves.  Unlike the fans, they are not given a list of names in specific positions.  The coaches are allowed to use their discretion to choose a player at any position, provided that player plays the position.  They do have to vote by position - two guards, two forwards, one center and two wild cards - but they have the leeway to move players around some to get the best players in the game.

This is a major consideration in the west, where Tim Duncan is essentially the top center in the conference despite being listed as a power forward on the ASG ballot.  Duncan is the obvious crossover from the four position, but it's entirely possible that seven footers Pau Gasol or even Dirk Nowitzki could be given center votes by some coaches. 

Amare Stoudemire also presents a problem here.  If he is listed as a center on the actual ballot, he is the one player who will have a chance to displace Bynum.  If he is listed as a forward, he will certainly get center votes as a reserve if he plays well.

So in fighting for a reserve spot on the team, Kaman will be up against not just the depleted centers of the conference, but also the very deep pool of power forwards out west.  If Carlos Boozer and Duncan and Stoudemire and Nowitzki and David West and LaMarcus Aldridge are all having great seasons, it would not be at all unusual for several coaches to slide Duncan or Stoudemire over to the center spot on their ballots.

Other Considerations - Team Record

Finally, it is a fact of All Star game voting, particularly for the reserves, that the team record is taken into consideration.  In that sense, it's not the All Star game so much as the All Star game for players from teams with winning records.  Essentially, if you play for a losing team, it doesn't matter how great you are, you will not be on the All Star team - not as a reserve.

So if Kaman wants to have a chance, the first order of business is winning some games.  (Marc Gasol has the same issue, perhaps even worse, since he's on a losing team from a small market.)  It won't matter how strong his stats are if the Clippers are 10-25 on January 1. 

The bottom line is that Kaman will probably be hunting and fishing in Michigan in February, not playing basketball in a football stadium in Dallas.  If the team starts to play well, and is in the mix for a playoff spot in January, that will increase his chances significantly.  If not, even Kaman 4.0 wouldn't be an All Star.

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Yao being on the ballot might help

His replacement would be selected by NBA people. Stern I think.

If his numbers were to hold, every single 20+pts 10+reb guy since 00-01 has made the ASG save one. It would have been two if Brand had not squeeked in in 05-06.

The lone whiff: Zach Randolph in 06-07.

Of all of those 20-10 all stars only 1 shot over 60% once: Shaq in 04-05.

Just some more context to the performance we have seen so far this season. Try to remember this as you watch him. He is going to make a mistake in the next game. He might even have a bad game. But instead of focusing on the mistake, remember that you have so far watched an all-modern-time performance from a center here.

So yeah, shattered fibula on Friday is my prediction.

by John R on Nov 4, 2009 2:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

If Yao is on the ballot,

China will vote for him.

Yao will win. Probably without playing a single NBA game.

and this is what will happen:

by KidJustin on Nov 4, 2009 2:51 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

If his numbers hold, he'll probably make it

But given his recent injury history, that’s a very big if.

In addition, Griffin’s return will affect Kaman’s numbers.

Whatever happens, let’s enjoy the ride.

by Jax on Nov 4, 2009 3:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I’d rather have a good team, than have Kaman as an All-Star.. If we get both, then great!

'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!

by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Nov 4, 2009 3:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I expect Kaman's numbers to go down

because teams are going to start doubling him more and kaman hasn’t looked to great in that situatioin. however, this may help the team as a whole by creating more open looks as well as making BD more effective when driving to the hoop. The question then will be how good will Kaman be passing out of the double team, and will it add some assists to his boxscore.

by AtotheZ on Nov 4, 2009 3:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He has a shot

if we’re a .500ish team during the break and he’s still around a 20-10. Bynum’s the odds on favorite but he could get hurt again or one of the Texas teams centers could get selected as the Spurs, Mavs and Rockets role players almost all got selected last year. Not sure which teams get aired the most in China now that Yao is out (it should be important to note he’s not the most popular player there, they still like Lebron, Kobe and Wade more).

Does this mean Yi Jianlian is going to the game this year?

This list is a little old but it lists all the nickname China has for NBA players, pretty cool stuff.

http://www.nba.com/features/chinese_playenicknames_070329.html

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Nov 4, 2009 4:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Being a Clipper will hurt his chances

Unless the Clips are a surprising team by that point (and by surprising, I mean top 6 in the west), I don’t see it happening. Being a Clipper comes with a serious negative stigma. Especially this season, where several people considered the Clips a playoff contender, even being 8th in the west won’t be enough to garner the necessary media attention.

Also, Steve, one thing I have to disagree with. I absolutely hope that should Bynum become an all-star, it’s because he’s riding Kobe’s coattails, not because he deserves it. Why would we want Bynum to be performing well?

by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 4:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Justice

I want all star game justice. If he’s going to take someone’s spot there, I want him to deserve it.

By the way, he’s already very good, and he’s going to get better, as hard as that is to accept.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 4, 2009 5:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, Positive much?

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Nov 4, 2009 5:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kaman will continue to progress in the best direction and the All-Star game is a realallity forsure.

I also think our ship will come full circle and set course for a Deep play off run.

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Nov 4, 2009 5:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

In What Year?

"Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

by Cliptomaniac on Nov 4, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This year.

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Nov 5, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We will revisit this conversation in 35 games and wonder how we even had it.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 4, 2009 8:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

likely

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 4, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So True

Everything is riding on his “health”. If he miraculously manages to play 75+ games this year, it will be a great accomplishment, and the team will be much better for it. It’s critical Blake Griffin comes back strong, it will lighten the load of Camby and Kaman, who both tend to wear down in the middle of seasons.

This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell

by oasisman on Nov 5, 2009 12:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kaman's best bet....

will most likely not even be for this years ASG, but rather next season when the game is being hosted at Staples Center. If the Clippers are near 0.500 next year, a Clipper has to make the team I think. Griffin should be in the Frosh-Soph game as well…and maybe even the dunk contest. I know it’s WAY too early to speculate, but I think 2010-2011 may be his best shot.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on Nov 4, 2009 8:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

But...

Yao will be back by then and he’s a shoe-in as a starter if he’s on the ballot. Unless he opts out of his contract this summer (probably unlikely coming off a serious injury) he’s in. So now Kaveman needs to beat out Bynum for that last spot, I’m thinking its more likely it happens this year than next.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Nov 4, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When the ASG is at Staples

A Laker has to make it. Nobody cares if a Clipper is in it or not. Nobody cared the last time around.

by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 11:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Great Post

Like the expansiveness of the breakdown. Very interesting to compare MGasol and Kaman right now. Funk on, Memphis. Tough defeat against GSW last night, nice line for the King, another big game by Gasol. The Funk were Morrowized by GSW, it looks like, as they had a 38 point 2nd quarter.

The Kaveman. It looks like we’re going to be hearing a lot about this gym back in Michigan. Can we call it the Kave?

It’s so tempting to speculate that Kaman has come of age, that he can keep playing with confidence and hit shots and stay strong and healthy and not be a doofus. We’ve certainly waited long enough. Kaman’s maturity is another recurring theme from Milph.

Let’s revisit this discussion after the eagerly awaited, already overhyped Clips vs. Funk, Kaman-Gasol mashup. Have to focus on beating GSW and avoid getting Morrowized first.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 5, 2009 10:40 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Allen Iverson

There was no appropriate forum to post this that i saw, but i thought this was salient to mention in re the respectful debate jax and i had earlier in the pre-season over the clippers potentially signing allen iverson (thank god we did not). His reactivity was so predictable, it is too easy for anyone who likewise felt a part of themselves die when they thought about Iverson poisoning this team like he looks to be that struggling franchise in Memphis, to say “I told you so”:

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/127038-iverson-frustrated-coming-off-bench

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Nov 5, 2009 10:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think what I said was

“if he’d agree to come off the bench.” Since he obviously hasn’t, there’s no need to debate this.

He did, however, have a nice line last night.

by Jax on Nov 5, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i thought your argument was

We should sign him because even if he took EG’s starting spot, EG’s growth wouldn’t be stunted and we would be a better team, and my response was that he has never agreed to join a franchise as a team-first player and acceded to a team’s request that he agree to come off of the bench without making a big fuss.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Nov 17, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that also happened to be his last line, because he quit on the Grizzlies on the basis that he is still unwilling to join a team as the first man off of the bench. Thank god we didn’t sign him

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Nov 17, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Kaman

I’m not sure, All-Star voting seems to overwhelmingly turn on the popular support of the fans, and Kaman’s neither telegenic/photogenic/or popular, sadly, our franchise is viewed more as infamous than famous for anything in particular, and like Jax said, when Griffin comes back, the individual numbers of Griffin/Camby/Kaman will dilute but *hope*fully result in greater overall/collective production amongst the 3 for the team.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Nov 5, 2009 10:51 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

trade rumour

apparently the talk of the town is a trade with Detroit Pistons Tayshaun Prince for Chris Kaman

by P M on Nov 5, 2009 11:25 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Its the obvious one

I’m against it, but its the obvious trade.

by John R on Nov 5, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ya, that would bum me out.

by Michael White on Nov 5, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it's a tough call

Having a BD, EJ, Prince, Griffin, Camby rotation would definitely increase our potential. It would also bring championship experience to our team, more competent offensive game and our best perimeter defender that we’ve been looking for.

On the other end, Kaman has endeared himself to the fans (when playing well), and right now he looks like he may be turning the corner if he can somehow stay healthy. Seems like Detroit needs a big more than we need a wing, plus wings are easier to find than Centers?

They are both around the same age, Prince is from L.A. originally.

by ghost_ride on Nov 5, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hell no

what do we do with Al & Sool?

Angels 2009 WS Champs

by dan73962 on Nov 5, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would hope

That Al would be included in the deal and that Sool could back up both the 2 and the 3, which would give us a nice rotation at the 1,2, & 3.

The 4&5 would still be Griffin/Camby/Smith/DeAndre/Skinner

by ghost_ride on Nov 5, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Al and Kaman for Prince and KBrown

Ehhh, I still wouldn’t do it. Like you said above, good centers are harder to find than wingman. Having Prince would be sweet, but no. I might go for Zhiv’s last idea below, but I don’t think it would ever happen.

As madglove has been saying, the idea is surround EJ and Griffin with a strong cast. Kaman knows the system and is coming into his own, plus he’ll probably stick around. With Prince, I see him leaving once his contract expires. I say we prioritize the future.

by SilverClip on Nov 5, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah--not good enough

Al and Kaman for Prince and KBrown isn’t a good enough deal either. Could still work out much better for the Pistons, although that 4 million in capspace would be sweet. And as I said below, KBrown could even play some minutes behind Camby and DJordan. Or not.

Kaman uber alles!

by citizen zhiv on Nov 5, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What about...

AT and Camby for Prince and KBrown? I’d do that. Would Detroit? Errr, how about if we threw in a draft pick.
 
Just stirring the pot.

by SilverClip on Nov 5, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

All reports that make sense

Say the Pistons want a post threat.

If they would take a salary dump is less clear. And if you are the Clippers and giving the salary dump, is Prince enough to give the bulk of it?

by John R on Nov 5, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I see what you're saying

But yes, I think Prince is enough. He’s exactly what we need on the wing, and I don’t see anyone else in next year’s free agency that fits so well (short of LJ).

A post threat makes perfect sense for the Pistons, but who knows, I wouldn’t be too surprised if a salary dump stirred their interest.

by SilverClip on Nov 5, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty funny

Where’s madglove’s flame

by Jax on Nov 5, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What is this in response to?

dan’s comment? The formatting makes it hard to see…

by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Think he means

How can you not be commenting on this?

Can’t be everywhere all the time I guess, I haven’t commented on your Rubio post just to save energy.

by ghost_ride on Nov 5, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

But I did comment above…I said that Kaman being a Clipper will hurt his chances.

As the direct comment above…eh.

by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally, I'd like hearing your take on Rubio

if you can muster up the energy of course. ; )

by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely Intruiged

I remember some people worried about his Livingston-like frame, but Griffin worries me more. So much hinges on that guy coming back healthy and staying relatively healthy that it’s scary.

Think we’re on the same page that EJ’s a good 2nd option, and a great 3rd option but dubious as the leader of a good NBA team. Obviously, we have to see how Griffin develops, but I like how he & EJ can be interchangeable 2nd & 3rd options, but there’s no question that we need a Point Guard, and an answer at the 3.

I wouldn’t mind pursuing Rubio to upgrade the PG spot now and in the future, but the locker room right now belongs to BD, and unless BD has another year like last year I think it could be too sensitive an issue to go after a stud PG now unless they would move BD in concert.

Complex stuff…only time will tell.

by ghost_ride on Nov 5, 2009 6:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

Tough call is right, now with Kaman playing well. This is what I was anticipating. Right now Kaman looks like a nice piece for the Clips’ future. Jordan isn’t ready, Camby is an expiring deal, and Kaman is playing great. But every player has a value.

Prince’s deal has two years on it. As a straight up swap it might have looked good before Kaman showed his recent improvement. Now it might seem like the Pistons are getting the best of the trade. Prince has a quieter game, but a big impact—it’s no accident that a team that featured both Chauncey Billups (with Denver turning around on a dime) and T Prince was so good.

In this deal, center and PF would be okay for the Clips, but perhaps a bit thin, But the big thing would be a pileup of sorts at SF and the wings. And I think that with Kaman putting up numbers and Detroit losing and making changes, why not go shopping? What’s the best deal the Clips can make, how do they make it worth their while? So let’s say that the Clips throw Thornton and Ricky Davis into the deal, and they have their trade exception too. You could say that the Clips could keep Thornton, bring him off the bench behind Prince, and Butler would remain Gordon’s backup, but I’m not sure that’s the best way to go. Would you rather have, say, Stuckey (hey there Jax!) instead of Thornton, if you have Prince but no Kaman?

How does Kaman-Thornton-RDavis for Prince-Stuckey-Kwame Brown sound? Kwame is 4 million dollars of expiring contract, and he might even play a few minutes in Kaman’s absence. Then, if the season is going bad and you want to do a giveaway for an expiring deal, you shop Baron Davis.

I still like keeping Kaman.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 5, 2009 1:04 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Kaman has my vote

I think Kaman numbers are all star and Bynum numbers are good but when Gasol comes
back they will go down considerably. As to the trade i think we wait until december when
we get back Griffin. If the team is doing bad then yes and if they is doing good no. I stress
again Baron is the key to our success. It would also help if our small forwards would
start producing.

by ENCUEROMAN on Nov 5, 2009 1:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

kaman

i think he’s very capable of being an all star, however, it’s just that he outshines every other clipper player on the court since he’s the go to guy. if griffin is back., it will be hard for him to get the same numbers as he has been getting from the season openers. but hes got my vote as a clipper fan. it would be a great motivation for him if he does get into the all stars

Clips' Nation
Eagles!

by Goosebumpz on Nov 5, 2009 3:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Prince

I do want Tayshawn on our squad, but not for Kaman.

by Cay.Clipper1 on Nov 5, 2009 4:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Not for Kaman

but I would be okay with Camby and Thornton for Prince. Would match up salary wise but trading Kaman would create a huge hole for us in the middle. This would effectively take us out of the FA bonanza this summer but we won’t have the room for a max-type player anyways unless we move BD or Kaman for a expiring contract.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Nov 5, 2009 7:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

3 + 3 + 3

Gentlemen, all this chatting has OBVIOUSLY led us up to following trade summation:

Detroit gets Kaman and Brewer

Clippers get Prince, Hollins, and Rubio

Minnesota gets their pick back from the Clips, AT, and KBrown (and of course, much extra cap space)

Ha, what a monstrosity!! If that doesn’t justify a meandering afternoon of blogging, I don’t know what does.

by SilverClip on Nov 5, 2009 7:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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