The target should be Ricky Rubio
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 3:29 PM PST
78 comments
A few of us broached this topic in the Iverson thread and upon SilverClip's suggestion, I thought I would put up a separate fan post to fill the lull before the next game.
There have been several discussions on what the team should do in the near future (ie. the next 1-3 years). Some have suggested trading Kaman to maximize cap space to make a serious run at Lebron James, Wade and others. Some have suggested standing pat and just seeing what we have. My contention is that the team needs to focus on putting the right pieces around Eric Gordon and Blake Griffin. Those two are our core and because they're so young, we have the time and resources to build a contender around them to ensure that 1) we make the most of the talent that we have, and 2) to make sure that neither want to leave as free agents when the time comes. The idea is similar to what the Thunder are doing around Durant.
To that end, I think the plan should be clear - trade for Ricky Rubio.
The fit is natural - Minny has Flynn and Sessions for the next several years. There's already been speculation that they will try to trade Rubio before the draft next summer. The Clips have a need for a PG to grow with EJ and Blake, and Baron only has a few more years left in his prime. Plus, the timing is perfect as Rubio won't come to the NBA for another year or two. By that time, the time will be right to hand the reigns over to him from Baron.
The icing on the cake of course is that the Clips own the TWolves' draft pick, unprotected in 2011 and have several other assets at its disposal.
The trade proposal that I originally suggested was Thornton and Minny's pick for Rubio and Brewer. Minny could use the scoring punch at the 3 and the Clips are obviously in need of a defensive stopper on the wing. However, based on David Kahn's latest comments, I think it seems as if they value cap space. Thus, I'm thinking another option would be Ricky Davis and Minny's pick for Rubio, Brewer and Ryan Hollins (this would really be 2 separate trades - Davis for Hollins and Brewer for our Z-Bo trade exception). This frees up an additional $5+ mil in cap space for Minny, giving them max or near max cap space this summer.
This would give the Clips a future starting five (Rubio, Gordon, Brewer, Griffin, Kaman) all in their 20s and as balanced as any in the league. A pure passing PG, an all around SG, a defensive stopper SF, a star PF, and a true center.
1 recs |
78 comments
Email
Print
Comments
I think if this team is in the position to get Rubio
by only giving up expiring contracts and a first round pick, they should jump all over it. Even worst case scenario if Rubio is a bust, it’s not like we gave up much. This team competing in the 2010 FA sweepstakes is already a gamble (it is for every team with cap room). First you have to beat out their current team (which is already tough) and then you have to beat out the other teams. It would be tough for the Clips with their history and reputation. Luckily we have a great market on our side.
But anyways, in my opinion, it would be a good investment to move some pieces around (expiring or not) and a 1st rounder to get Ricky. He has the overseas experience so the transition into the NBA would take too long. He’s got great court vision and amazing pure PG abilities (passing, handling, vision, etc.). His shooting needs to improve but at least he has the most important traits, at least for what this team is looking for in a PG.
If the Wolves are indeed serious about shopping him, I certainly hope the Clips are pushing strong. I know the Knicks are VERY interested in the services of Ricky.
by dulciusEXasperis on Nov 4, 2009 4:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Giving up the cap space
This is where the Clips can beat out teams like the Knicks. Yes the Knicks are very interested in Rubio. But right now, they’re focused on Lebron. So they obviously won’t do anything to jeopardize that possibility.
Such is the case with quite a few teams in position to offer expiring contracts and a lottery pick. Thus, it’s in the Clips’ best interests to strike before the end of the Summer of Lebron. Minny may very well be desperate to free up as much cap space as possible to be a player this summer. I honestly don’t know why any free agent would sign with Minny, but that’s their business. They’re obviously hoping to lure a guy like Lebron, Wade or even Joe Johnson.
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Feels backburner to me
This isn’t the Clippers most pressing need. You might need those assets to solve the situation at the 3.
by John R on Nov 4, 2009 4:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
"Those assets"...
Which assets… trade exception and expiring contracts… or Minny pick? That’s really the central piece in madglove’s gambit… Rubio for the pick is a no-brainer isn’t it? The rest is just parts. The Wolves are never going to see Rubio in Minnesota, point guard is one spot they’re covered, and I think David Kahn has to be pretty desperate to get back that pick.
by swamigusto on Nov 4, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beyond that
The 3 is the easiest position in the league to fill. You look around the league and there are only a handful of top young PGs, yet a wealth of talented swingmen.
Any Clips fans should know that it’s been a constant struggle to find a quality floor general for this team. We’re talking years and years of solid to good swingmen, but poor PGs.
And I’d argue there’s nothing more “pressing” than finding the right guy to get the ball to EJ and Griffin and let them score. A good SF is a luxury, but nowhere near as important as finding a PG to maximize Gordon and Griffin’s abilities.
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The 3 is the easiest position in the league to fill.
In the sense that Thorntons and Brewers are a dime a dozen, sure. But there are very few that generate significant wins. I bet there are even a few out there who are competent ball handlers and can participate in getting the ball to EJ and Griffin (why not Kaman?).
Why can’t the Clippers target a great SF and a good enough young enough proven PG?
And how do you know anything about Rubio? What has he done? I look around the league and I see…not Rubio.
For a guy who values unprotected first round picks, why are you in such a rush to give one away on a player who wasn’t even a top three pick and then ran rather than compete? Below you give away TWO picks? AND cap space? That’s the whole farm on a guy who might not be able to get to the rim in the NBA. Don’t the Clippers already have Sebastian Telfair? (oh no he didn’t).
Eventually Rubio might be A target, but he’s not THE target. If you fix the 3 well enough, it won’t matter who the PG ends up.
by John R on Nov 4, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jumping the gun
Notice the use of question marks in my post below? I was throwing the 2 picks out there as a question to everyone else. Nowhere did I say that I would do that. And for a guy who has clearly stated that he doesn’t value picks, it’s funny for you to try to take the opposite stance just b/c it suits you.
You ask why the Clips can’t target a “great SF”. Of course they can. Are you suggesting that you prefer the cap space for Lebron approach? If you do, I can’t fault you. I said the same to zhiv, who favors that strategy.
But just as you say that if you fix the 3, it won’t matter who the PG is, the opposite is just as true, if not moreso. Everyone knows that PG is tone of the most important positions on the team. Not to say you need a superstar, just that it’s a position that requires a very competent player. The 3 is not nearly as integral. Of course if your 3 is Lebron, that’s totally different.
The 3 is only “pressing” for the success of THIS team THIS year. It’s hardly the most pressing issue to put around Gordon and Griffin. As I said before, the most important thing to put around scoring weapons like those two is the right guy to feed them the ball.
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 11:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying there is no scenario where Rubio doesn't become the best target
IF Minny allowed the Clippers to talk to him ahead of the deal and the Clippers were able to confirm that he would come over AND they were able to make the trade contingent on him actually signing a contract AND the lottery has passed AND the Clippers are trading a 7th or worse pick straight up for him, sure. Fine. Make it so number one.
But the Clippers have the parts to make a godfather offer by including enough expiring contracts to take on any amount of salary up to over $24 million and two first round picks unprotected in the next three years. Then if they can’t make a deal there, then they still have near max cap space to work on a FA and if they can’t get who they want, then they still have that space as well as the two picks to work on a S&T.
You have to completely exhaust those possibilities before you start looking at little moves like Rubio, which is ultimately a pretty risky move.
by John R on Nov 5, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's the target?
I understand what you’re saying about wanting to make a Godfather offer…but to whom? There’s only one SF in the league worth that kind of offer and Cleveland isn’t trading him. That’s the problem, anybody worth the kind of offer you’re suggesting isn’t going to be traded.
You’re talking about assets to trade for a superstar. I get that and I’m all for it. But who is that superstar who’s available for a package that doesn’t include Blake Griffin in return? I don’t see anyone in the situation of Minny when they traded KG. And even then they got an up and coming player in Jefferson, not just picks and cap space.
This team needs to build through the draft IMO.
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter to whom really
Why take it off the table before all offers have been heard?
by John R on Nov 5, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it does matter
If you’re going to say there’s a better alternative, it’s disingenuous to not offer some of those better alternatives.
Especially when my point is that your talk of a Godfather offer only applies to players who won’t be traded anyway. So all this talk of needing to keep assets and not use them on Rubio really doesn’t hold water if there isn’t a viable better alternative.
Otherwise, why make any move? There “could” always be a better deal out there. But unless one can realistically identify what that better move is, this isn’t a meaningful discussion.
None of the assets on the whole Clippers team gets Cleveland to trade Lebron. So aside from Lebron, who is this SF that you covet so much? Surely you have to be able to name some names if you’re so adamant that the 3 spot needs to be filled and those assets needs to be saved for that need.
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree, sometimes it might be disingenous, but not this time
So much is going to change between today and the lottery that it is pretty much impossible to predict what is going to happen. Who is going to decide to rebuild? Who is going to make a desperation move? Where will the Minny pick be? Where will the Clippers finish?
There is almost certainly a better alternative. I don’t have to know what it is to know that there is one out there. It will reveal itself. Or it won’t. But it doesn’t matter, since the Clippers will have plenty of chances along the way to switch their target to Rubio before Rubio has to be acted on. And then maybe they don’t act on him. Even still, there is a solid chance between their 4 first rounders (almost certainly all unprotected) in the next 3 years that they get at least an equal prospect.
That is all Rubio is, a prospect. Nothing more. He is not a sure thing. I am not going to go as far as those below and say he is this or that. He might be great, but there is also a good chance he won’t be. Why worry about him today? Who are you bidding against? The Wolves would have moved him already if they had any credible offers.
THE target right now for the Clippers is the largest possible upgrade or upgrades they can get using all of their assets in one huge deal or in combinations that they can get at any positions, preferably including the 3.
by John R on Nov 5, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Timing
I guess the disconnect here is when Rubio “has to be acted on.” I’m not necessarily advocating that this trade happen right now. Obviously if the trade specifically includes Ricky Davis, it would have to happen before the deadline, but a trade involving Thornton or just picks certainly doesn’t have to happen this season.
If you’re advocating waiting til the season is over because a lot can change between now and the lottery, I don’t disagree with you.
But if you’re advocating waiting til the 2011 draft, I’d say it’s likely that Rubio will be “acted on” before then by other teams.
As for “THE target”, I don’t disagree with you. But my contention is that getting a PG prospect of Rubio’s caliber is one of the largest upgrades you can get. It’s essentially turning a future lottery pick (2011) into the 5th pick in 2009. And most had Rubio going higher than 5th if not for his contract situation.
My perspective is that if you look beyond a year or two, to when EJ and Griffin will presumably start to really blossom, there isn’t a more pressing need than a PG to feed them the ball and run this team. Again, unless you have Lebron at the 3, Blake and EJ will care a lot more about whose quarterbacking the team and running the offense, than who’s on the other wing looking to get theirs.
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jumping the gun
Notice the use of question marks in my post below? I was throwing the 2 picks out there as a question to everyone else. Nowhere did I say that I would do that. And for a guy who has clearly stated that he doesn’t value picks, it’s funny for you to try to take the opposite stance just b/c it suits you.
You ask why the Clips can’t target a “great SF”. Of course they can. Are you suggesting that you prefer the cap space for Lebron approach? If you do, I can’t fault you. I said the same to zhiv, who favors that strategy.
But just as you say that if you fix the 3, it won’t matter who the PG is, the opposite is just as true, if not moreso. Everyone knows that PG is tone of the most important positions on the team. Not to say you need a superstar, just that it’s a position that requires a very competent player. The 3 is not nearly as integral. Of course if your 3 is Lebron, that’s totally different.
The 3 is only “pressing” for the success of THIS team THIS year. It’s hardly the most pressing issue to put around Gordon and Griffin. As I said before, the most important thing to put around scoring weapons like those two is the right guy to feed them the ball.
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 11:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget Rubio, he not that good anyway,
We should try to Trade Butler for Rudy Gay to help in the SF spot.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
by HVYDRT007 on Nov 4, 2009 5:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What's the story there?
Is Memphis looking to trade him at a cut rate? Butler for Gay wouldn’t help them with salary, so I don’t see why the Funk would be interested. Something I don’t know?
by SilverClip on Nov 4, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very amateur about NBA trade details
Thanks for the posting, mg.
OK, somebody here tell me if I’ve got this right…
In this latest trade idea, I take it we’d being giving up a lesser player (RD instead of AT) in exchange for also taking on Hollins, thus freeing up cap space for the Twolves.
Looking at the TWolf link above, they just exercised their option on Brewer. On the face of it, this doesn’t seem very consistent with the mission of freeing up cap space, and really it might make him less desirable as a trade token. What’s the thinking, then? The Twolves are probably just not ready to give up on Brewer yet, nor do they want to sign him to a new contract right away. Sooo, their own indecision is hurting their chances to free up cap space. Isn’t that so?
And then there’s the bottom line: would Minni do the trade? For one, giving up Hollins and Brewer (for RD, no less) would make them particularly awful this year. Are future acquisitions really so much their priority? I’m sure they’d love to get their pick back from us.
Would we do this? We’d have 16 players signed at that point. How would that work? My guess is we’d have to release someone, which I think would mean eating their contract. I’m really not in the know about this sort of thing, but given Sterling it seems a problematic detail.
Would Rubio do it? Well, I think he would, but what are the details of his Euro contract. Would we be looking at some $8 million buyout? I lost track of it all last summer.
Would I do it? Hell, I’d love to have the prospect of Rubio shining down upon Clipperland for the next year or two. Just the suggestion of it would give us heightened credibility. I’m sure it would help to entice others, including our core, to sign on and stay.
by SilverClip on Nov 4, 2009 5:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
KRush?
Just remembered, I don’t think Kareem’s contract is guaranteed the whole year. Crap, I don’t really know what that means, either. Could we just let him go, free of charge, sometime in January?
(Sorry, lots of questions)
by SilverClip on Nov 4, 2009 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rush's contract
Yea they can just cut him before January and not have any obligation the rest of the year.
Beyond that though, I think the trade wouldn’t happen until right before the 2010 draft. So after this season. The contracts aren’t an issue at all in this scenario.
Another question would be, if they want their lottery pick back, AND our first rounder this year (say like 12-14), for Rubio, do you do it?
Ricky Davis, our pick this year and the 2011 TWolves pick for Rubio and Brewer?
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess it depends how well you think we would do this year
i would make the trade but make our pick top 10 protected
by XXDC2XX on Nov 5, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You hit the nail on the head about the TWolves...
They don’t know what they’re doing. It made no sense to draft Flynn and Rubio… and then to further compound the error, they signed Sessions… rendering Rubio nothing but trade bait… but the people they have to trade with know Rubio will never play for your team… so he’s worth less than he might. The Clips can wait this one out though, because the TWolves aren’t going to get good in the next 2 years when the Clips can finally cash that pick.
by swamigusto on Nov 4, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But the reason I want to cash in that TWolves pick with Rubio is because of the age factor. Rubio is the perfect age to put next to Griffin and Gordon. He’s obviously a top 5 talent. Even if the TWolves’ pick is a top 5 pick in 2011, the kid we draft in 2011 will be pretty young. I’d prefer to turn that into someone like Rubio who has the talent and would be more ready to contribute.
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio not a "obvious top 5 talent"
no way. definitely not. maybe top 5 overhyped from last year’s draft.
Angels 2009 WS Champs
by dan73962 on Nov 5, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
why are people so low in rubio.
he is definitly top 5 talent in last draf top 3 in my opinion.
by XXDC2XX on Nov 5, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I could be wrong, but...
I personally think that Minnesota had targeted Evans and Flynn in the draft. Sacramento took Evans at 4, so Minnesota took the most valuable player available at 5 in Rubio. Kahn traded away all of their guard depth (which points to the intention of adding guards through the draft). He also had hopes of a both Flynn and Rubio (which could have been Evans) in the backcourt at the same time. Everything seemed to backfire on them.
I would love for us to add Rubio via trade. He’s not coming over for at least 2 seasons (this year and next), but it is likely that he stays out a 3rd year as well. He will then be able to sign a contract that is not bound by the rookie scale. That is around the same time that Minnesota will have to give us their pick. If Rubio doesn’t want to play for them, then they’d be without both he and the pick. If they trade him to us, they at least get the opportunity to add another player through the draft.
He has already stated that he wouldn’t mind playing for us since we are in Los Angeles, plus we’d have a young talented core that he could flourish with.
by Lawler 4ever on Nov 4, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewer move
If you read the link I made above about Kahn’s comments, you’ll see that he’s totally non-committal towards keeping Brewer. His comments indicate that they didn’t want to let an asset go for nothing when they can find a way to trade him later and get some other assets in return. It was more about hanging onto a potential trading piece than having him long term.
And like you said, I think the crux of my thinking is that a) they clearly are in a bad place with too many PGs, and b) they likely want that pick back.
I wouldn’t worry about Rubio at all. Playing in LA with EJ and Griffin? Yea…that’s fine.
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lots to reply to here
For instance, RDavis and two 1st rounders for Rubio? Only if actually getting him over here were relatively uncomplicated. But Lawler 4ever brings up an ugly detail, that Rubio can stick it out in Europe until he can demand a larger NBA contract. That could be troublesome, no? I wouldn’t want the Clips to give up an arm and a leg, only to get a big headache in return.
And is there a buyout that we’d be facing?
I’m starting to agree with what some others are saying, that the TWolves might end up willing to trade him for much less. Perhaps we should wait them out. At least, as you say yourself, we should wait until the end of the season. What are the chances of the Knicks pulling the trigger before then?
by SilverClip on Nov 4, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not a mid-season trade
I can’t see anything happening this season. There’s just no incentive for either team.
This whole post is predicated on an off-season trade around the draft. I only bring it up because we just played the TWolves and there’s a lull in the action.
And just to be clear, like I said to John R above, I’m not necessarily advocating trading two picks. Just throwing it out there to see what others think. It’s definitely a lot to give up.
by madglove on Nov 4, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Incentives
I suppose one reason for either team to do the trade mid-season would involve speculation over Brewer’s development. If we think he’s going to turn into something, we might want to grab him before that happens.
But an off-season trade does seem more likely, in which case I don’t think we’d have RDavis as a trade token. I can see trading one player we have under contract plus our TWolve pick for two of their players and Rubio. I agree that our flexibility with cap space gives us an edge over the Knicks.
If we’re looking for a deal, though, we might try trading our TWolve pick alone for both Rubio and Brewer. Or more realistically, for Rubio and Hollins. They’d get their pick back and more cap space. We get our future pg, provided that his Euro contract isn’t insurmountable, and that we’re confident we can sign him at a reasonable price. Both of those are pretty big ifs.
by SilverClip on Nov 5, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i like where youre going with these moves. i for one am all for adding young pieces, more specifically these two..
let me first state i’m a fan of trying to steal joe johnson next summer. i am past the whole lebron thing, thats not going to happen. but even still, the moves you proposed dont give up much, we still have cap space and we still have desirable young pieces and expiring contracts. besides, signing a star thats in his prime would mean we’re in absolute win-now mode and i dont know if dunleavy is the man to lead the charge. different coach, maybe i have a different outlook, but with dunleavy here i wanna store for the future when their talents wont be wasted.
as for the players, i was very impressed with corey brewer the other night minus a few too many forced jumpshots. he was all over the floor defensively, moved the ball well, and he even penetrated the defense a couple times but didnt convert. is this the gluey/defensive minded 3 we’ve been looking for? hes still young(22,23?) and with a couple more years of experience and another 10-15 lbs under his belt he could become an absolute lock-down 3. and when you look around the league, there arent many of those guys to be had. he doesnt have much range right now but like all defensive minded 3’s, hes only a spot up 3 point shot away from being extremely effective.
…and then theres rubio. a young pass first point guard who’s a pesky on ball defender. i think rubio will be fine in the nba. hes is, or at least seems to be a bit slow, but his game relies more on his craftiness, not athleticism. he has two years to work on his jumpshot. and even if he doesnt improve, i still see a lot of j.kidd in him(at least if hes on a winning team with a winning mentality. losing team/losing mentality, maybe he slides to a little more like j.williams). is it a risk trading for him? yes, but we sat on our hands in a PG heavy draft and now arent left with much option once baron starts rapidly declining in the next year or two. put it this way, for these two pieces, i’d give the OK…
by krapper11 on Nov 5, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
another pg
without and nba body and an iffy jumpshot? uh, no thanks…see SL.
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
by Lawler's Law on Nov 5, 2009 8:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
i agree
i stated before that he’s a
poor poor man’s SL
Angels 2009 WS Champs
by dan73962 on Nov 5, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
for telling everyone that you’ve made absurdly poor comparisons before.
Rubio went head to head against the best PGs in the world on the world’s biggest stage and held his own….all at 17 yrs of age.
The comparison to Livingston is completely nonsensical.
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed - seems to me he's worth a shot
One question in trading the pick would be who is likely to be in that draft and where is Minny likely to be.
by Jax on Nov 5, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd guess it's going to be a very high pick
I mean Minny stinks right? So it could potentially be a top 3 pick (though as we all know, having the worst record doesn’t guarantee you a top 3 pick).
That’s the risk. Do we trade potentially the #1 overall pick for Rubio? Of course the downside is that it ends up being a lower pick than we anticipate. Most THINK it will be a very high pick. But Minny could sign a big name FA this summer or pull of some good trades, or just be better than we thought. It could very well be like the 9th or 10th pick.
Btw, I’m VERY pro-Ricky Rubio, but I’m not saying we should sell the house for him. Like I said before, the “two picks” suggestion was me just throwing it out there for discussion.
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly Rubio is a polarizing player
I’m in the bring Rubio in camp too. I acknowledge though that opinion is built 100% on what I saw of him in the olympics.
by Michael White on Nov 5, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how did he hold his own? this is “completely nonsensical.” He didn’t even hold his own against his own team.
He held his own because I am MadGlove and I said so, no stats or facts needed just my statements. Blah blah blah…Sure he did better than the 4th string point guard and Calderon that didn’t even play, but he was awesome. blah blah blah…
by sqrebck on Nov 5, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nonsensical
Area you really going to try to criticize me about making sense and then write this triumphantly idiotic comment:
He didn’t even hold his own against his own team.
You might have won the award for the single dumbest thing ever written on this blog.
Tough to “hold your own AGAINST” someone when you’re not playing AGAINST them…seeing as how they’re on the same team…
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have made much stupider comments.
However, I do believe that most basketball team practice against one another. Much the same fashion as the Clippers would. So are you saying that Ricky Davis is equal to and can hold his own against EJ?
by sqrebck on Nov 5, 2009 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now you're claiming to know how Rubio did in PRACTICE against Calderon?
Uh…ok. Care to share how you know that Rubio couldn’t “hold his own” IN PRACTICE against Calderon?
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can figure it out based off of who started? Most teams don’t let there “Star” sit on the bench for most of the game.
You are claiming that he would come to the Clippers if the pick is traded? Why don’t you back up your exaggerated claim that Ricky has agreed to come to the NBA and play in 2 years.
The fact of the matter is that he entered the NBA draft knowing how much he could make and under contract to another team. The Timberwolves worked out a deal with $500,000 and local contracts to ease the burden on the buyout. He agreed to the terms and then back out and signed a 6 year deal with another team.
You are off Target, and he is not a man of his word.
by sqrebck on Nov 5, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
He doesn’t start so that’s the same as him not “holding his own”?
Nobody is saying Rubio was Spain’s star. YOU claimed he couldn’t “hold his own” which implies he was getting killed. Apparently you know of their practice sessions.
Or…you know…you’re just making stuff up to try to plug your completely nonsensical arguments.
by madglove on Nov 6, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ricky was the 4th most productive player on the team. Is this a fact or not?
Since Ricky was not the starter on the team or gather the most minutes, much like in the NBA he didn’t hold his own against better players on his team. EJ starts because other players can not hold there own against his playing skill. Or are you saying Ricky Davis and Mardy Collins is able to hold there own against EJ?
Why don’t you answer my question about Ricky’s willingness to play for the Clippers if the pick is traded? This boy has already shown a lack of character regarding honoring his word, much like Navarro who bitched and moan while in Memphis and went back to Barca.
So your analysis of picking up a project player, who may never come to the NBA or develop an NBA game for the price of a first round pick and AT is ridiculous.
Talk about that, but you won’t cause you have no answer.
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no need to address
a ridiculous character argument.
It’s hardly worth even responding to.
Your comparison of Ricky Davis to Rubio shows how off you are. You called him the 4th most productive player on his team. Even if that’s true, that makes him a huge contributor. The fact that you think that helps your point that he can’t “hold his own against his own team” shows just how ridiculous your arguments are. You can’t even keep your comments straight (just like you quoted a report about his QUICKNESS to support your ridiculous assertion that he’s “slow”).
The 4th best player on any team can obviously “hold his own”. Genius.
by madglove on Nov 6, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Answer the question MadGlove.
Ricky’s willingness to play for the Clippers if the pick is traded?
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Afraid to answer
Ricky’s willingness to play for the Clippers if the pick is traded?
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
come on forumn tough guy
Answer: Ricky’s willingness to play for the Clippers if the pick is traded?
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
come on....
would you be speculating?
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on Keyboard Tough Guy!!
Answer: Ricky’s willingness to play for the Clippers if the pick is traded?
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you need your diapers changed?
What is there to answer? The fact that you’re clueless?
Rubio’s people already said during draft time that they want him in a big market. Are you aware that the Clips play in a big market? Or did they not teach you that yet in pre-school?
by madglove on Nov 6, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
uh?
1. Rubio has a 6 year contract with Barca
2. He is slow, so his game is best served in a triangle and iso plays. Which I believe every Clipper Fan has hated!!
3. Why Gamble a pick on a player that may never play in the NBA.
4. Spain’s success in the Olympics was due to the amazing play of Calderon and not Rubio. So if we wouldn’t trade for Calderon today, I am not waiting for Rubio tomorrow.
Want to pick up a project, work out a trade for Joe Alexander for Ricky Davis.
by sqrebck on Nov 5, 2009 8:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Uh...
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
1. He can buy out his contract in 2011 for $1.4 mil, and an NBA team can pay for $500,000 of that.
2. Your comment makes zero sense. He’s supposedly slow but his game is best served on iso plays? Uh…ok. He was quick enough to get by CP3 and DWill in the Olympics as well as stay with them full court. This team can use that kind of “slow.”
3. He’ll play in the NBA. This statement is completely baseless. He didn’t want to be a TWolf and he couldn’t afford the ridiculous buyout in his previous deal.
4. Ok this makes it OBVIOUS to anyone who knows that you’re clearly just making things up. Calderon got injured in the Olympics and didn’t even play the last two games, (including vs. Team USA). Even when they both played, Rubio was just as effective, if not moreso than Calderon, averaging 4 assists a game to Calderon’s 1.2.
Stop making comments about a player you clearly haven’t even seen.
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Maybe you missed the operative word “can”, not that he will. Furthermore, wasn’t he the guy that said he would play anywhere, because his dream was to be in the NBA? Forgive me for not jumping through hoops because you like Rubio and his slow ass play and his lack of CHARACTER to honor his commitments.
2. Ricky is lacking a Mid-range game, is turnover prone with average athleticism and explosiveness and a Slow release. (Check any Draft site and they all said the same thing)
3. Because you say he will play in the NBA doesn’t make it so. What guarentee can you make that he will play for the Clippers? That would be none.
4. The Calderon comment was tongue in cheek, however Calderon was more productive in the Olympics than Ricky. Please review the following stats. If you need assistance in understanding stats please let me know.
Calderon
PPG 7.3
RPG 3
ORPG 0.7
DRPG 2.3
ASPG 1.2
FG2P% 47.40%
FG3P% 33.30%
FT% 100%
(ESP)
PPG 4.8
RPG 4
ORPG 1.4
DRPG 2.6
ASPG 3
FG2P% 35%
FG3P% 16.70%
FT% 78.30%
You can make an argument about the potential of Rubio, but for me and my team take Rubio, Harold Minor, Michael Olowokandi, Bo Kimble and Kwame Brown and start your all potential team. The last thing we need is a project and losing a draft pick because Ricky decides later on he only wants to play for a specific team.
by sqrebck on Nov 5, 2009 4:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Furthermore, wasn’t he the guy that said he would play anywhere, because his dream was to be in the NBA? Forgive me for not jumping through hoops because you like Rubio and his slow ass play and his lack of CHARACTER to honor his commitments.
Oh please. Kobe basically did the same thing when he was drafted. Would you have been against bringing him to the Clippers?
by Michael White on Nov 5, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you are comfortable giving up a pick for a guy that can “change his mind” again?
How did Kobe do the same thing?
by sqrebck on Nov 5, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure we’ve discussed it on CN before so I don’t mean to rehash it, but Kobe was pretty clear that he wanted to go to the Lakers and he had no plans on going to Charlotte.
With Kobe, it just happened to work out for him that the Hornets balked and he ended up with the Lakers on draft day.
But I really wouldn’t be so absolute in challening the guys integrity. He made it clear that he wanted to go to a big market in the NBA and Minnesota doesn’t exactly fit the bill. Besides, Minnesota drafted Flynn and re-signed Sessions; so even they didn’t think drafting Rubio was going to work out. I don’t think that means he lacks character.
Yes, I am fine giving up a pick for Rubio.
by Michael White on Nov 5, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you need help understanding stats?
Because Calderon hardly out performed Rubio. He scored more points and shot better percentages while Rubio averaged more assists and more rebounds.
And you apparently need English lessons too if you think your comment could be interpreted as tongue in cheek. Don’t try to hide behind that because you made a ridiculous comment without actually knowing what you’re talking about.
And I like how you conveniently didn’t respond to my pointing our your completely nonsensical comment about him being “slow” but his game is best served in isos. Care to explain that statement?
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He is slow, turnover prone with no outside game. Check draft info from ESPN or Draftexpress. IMO ISOS seem his best fit.
by sqrebck on Nov 5, 2009 5:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Scouting Report:
Positives:
Great size for position
Long wingspan
Amazing playmaker, fantastic anticipation
Incredible basketball IQ
Flair for the spectacular
True floor leader
Fearless, tough
Crafty at getting to the basket
Decent midrange jump shooter
Good production at young age
Negatives:
Lacks deep range on his jumper
Lacks explosiveness athletically
Below-average lateral quickness
Needs to add strength
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19272&draftyear=2009
So are you hanging your hat on the “below-average lateral quickness.” I mean, that doesn’t exactly read like a damning scouting report. Also, the scouting report notes he has a decent mid-range shot, and it’s not like we would really need him chucking up 3’s anyway.
For a guy his age, I think this is a pretty favorable scouting report.
by Michael White on Nov 5, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait he's slow and can't shoot
So his best offensive is isolation…
Thanks, that’s all I need to know about you.
by madglove on Nov 5, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he is not slow and can create his own shot?
You may need to look at more than his highlight reel. After watching USA / Spain I was impressed by the play of Rudy Fernandez and Carlos Navarro.
Even Tyronn Lue had a highlight reel, didn’t make me a superstar.
So what information do you have that Ricky would come to the Clippers if the pick was traded, and if he doesn’t come to the NBA is a 1st round draft pick and Al Thornton / Ricky Davis for Brewer?
by sqrebck on Nov 5, 2009 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty Much
All white dudes are going to be listed as below average in the speed department. The NBA game was supposed to be too fast for Larry Bird and many others.
by ghost_ride on Nov 5, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha
that ISO line is ridiculous. are you listening to yourself?!
by krapper11 on Nov 5, 2009 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With regards to ISO plays, it’s considered his strength. Don’t fault me for experts have qouted time and time again. However you can’t dismiss that he doesn’t have NBA speed or Strength either.
In isolation situations he can really break down a defense because of his length and quickness, which is very important when you are a play maker. Does a great job of changing gears and attacking the paint when his best option is to attack. When he does have time to shoot he squares up nicely and can knock down the open shot.
Quit watching youtube highlight videos and start watching a complete game.
Once again more Blah Blah Blah from Mad dog and his goons, nothing to back it up just Blah Blah Blah.
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 7:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean come on dog, Sun Yue the Chinese Magic had a better olympics than Rubio.
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you read what you write?
I’m curious because you just quoted a scouting report to support YOUR claim that he’s “slow” but somehow suited to isolations.
So this is the scouting report that YOU quoted:
In isolation situations he can really break down a defense because of his length and quickness, which is very important when you are a play maker. Does a great job of changing gears and attacking the paint when his best option is to attack. When he does have time to shoot he squares up nicely and can knock down the open shot.
That’s exactly my point which you seem too dim to understand. You can’t be slow AND suited for isolations, which YOU claimed.
by madglove on Nov 6, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The analysis of his game while playing for Joventut, FIBA and the Olympics is that he is best at ISO play.
Does Joventut, FIBA and the Euroleague equal the same skill level as the NBA? NO, Hell No, No F’n way.
So if he is best suited for ISO plays and lacks the Speed and Strength of an NBA player he will struggle and will be less successful than a Quicker, Stronger guard.
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your "analysis"?
Stop. You have no analysis. You have self contradicting statements, wild speculation based on nothing and petulant ranting.
by madglove on Nov 6, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can actually produce items
you Blah Blah Blah ridiculous Blah Blah blah Produce nothing.
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wild speculation
Ricky agreed to play for Clippers.
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you talk about actually watching him play...
then base your analysis off a scouting report. you distinctly talk about him being slow…. then conjure that hes best suited for isolations.
heres an idea: get your facts straight and stop contradicting yourself.
by krapper11 on Nov 6, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He is slow, and is best suited for ISO plays. He doesn’t play in the NBA so his slow ISO’s has worked in FIBA. The Analysis was used to support my statement along with other statements that he is slow.
These are facts. Look them up, watch a complete game.
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of Rubio (flashy, pass first PG) but I see too many red flags with his game.
I’d rather keep the pick which has the potential to vault us to a championship contender if we use our cap space wisely this next off-season and BG and EG mature successfully.
by DariusN on Nov 5, 2009 6:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
3 + 3 + 3
Just posted this trade phantasmic idea on the other thread (Kaman All Star). Ah, the genius of the collective mind…
Detroit gets Kaman and Brewer
Clippers get Prince, Hollins, and Rubio
Minnesota gets their pick back from the Clips, AT, and KBrown (and of course, much extra cap space)
What a monstrosity!! If that doesn’t justify a meandering afternoon of blogging, I don’t know what does
by SilverClip on Nov 5, 2009 8:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ricky Rubio is good
is fast enough, skilled enough, is excellent at running a team, can finish to the rim, can shoot better than jason kidd, can defend and is arguably the best young passer in the world. And he’s still 19. He would be awesome to see him in a clippers jersey in 2011
here’s a video of a recent game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5dVLUhlx-c
by ClipperIt on Nov 6, 2009 9:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
you forgot to add Good Enough, Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Ricky.
by sqrebck on Nov 6, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
