Clips Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: MLB Trade Rumors: Edwin Jackson to the White Sox, DC next?

New Orleans 112 - Clippers 84 - Or How to Lose all the Good Feelings of a Winning Streak

The Clippers played a terrific first quarter on offense tonight.  They scored 28 points and shot well over 50%.  And they trailed by 7 at the break.

New Orleans made their first 5 three pointers of the game and 7 of 8 threes in the first quarter.  Most of them came from their starting wings, Devin Brown and Peja Stojakovic.  Now, through the first 6 games of the season, those guys were NOT their starting wings.  Lucky us, Byron Scott found a combination that worked (really, really well, at least for this one game) just in time to play the Clippers.

Frequently, in a game like this, where Team A is playing well, but Team B is playing out of their minds, one of two things will happen.  Either Team B will come back to earth, and the game will turn into a close, competitive affair.  Or Team A will get frustrated at their inability to make any headway, and the game will become a rout for Team B.  Guess which happened tonight?

Star-divide

The simple fact of the matter is, games like this happen.  Whether you lose 112-84, or 85-84, a loss is a loss.  And I don't happen to be one of those guys that was ready to write off the Hornets.  No, they were not playing well as they opened the season 2-5, and yes they looked terrible against the Lakers last night.  But I tend to think that the 49 wins last season and 56 wins the year before that are a better indicator of who they are than the 2-5 start.  After all, Chris Paul and David West are the real keys to the team, so while the loss of Rasual Butler and/or the swap of Tyson Chandler for Emeka Okafor may have changed the team some, I fail to see how it weakens them too much as long as Paul and West are around.  Regardless, I wondered in the game preview if perhaps the Hornets would have something to prove after their pathetic showing against the Lakers last night.  Indeed they did. 

But it really felt like 'just one of those games.'  I mean, in the fourth quarter Steve Novak missed 2 out of 3 free throws and then Craig Smith got kicked in the head and had to leave.  How do you explain any of that?

I certainly didn't help the Clippers were wihout Eric Gordon, out with a strained groin muscle.  Funny thing - Kevin just posted about some of the very telling stats concerning EJ's importance to the team.  According to 82games.com, going into tonight's game the Clippers were -25 per 100 possessions when Gordon is not in the game.  Just so you know, most NBA games average about 100 possessions, so that stat would suggest that a Clipper team without Eric Gordon would lose by about 25.  Without him tonight they lost by 28.  Spooky.

It's hard to imagine that his presence would have made a huge difference, but you never know.  His absence is certainly no excuse.  Teams have got to figure out how to play with key personnel missing, and besides, isn't this team supposed to be that much deeper?  I will admit however that seeing Griffin and Gordon behind the bench in sports coats was ominous - two twenty year olds, who are arguably the best players on the team and inarguably the future of the franchise, unable to do anything other than watch tonight.

At any rate, not much to do other than get ready for Oklahoma City on Wednesday. 

Some bullets:

  • Kaman's consecutive 20+ game streak comes to an end as he finished with 14.  Interestingly, he could easily have kept the steak alive had Mr. Flippy not made an unexpected appearance.  He missed two absolute bunnies, and also missed 4 free throws.  So by all rights, he should have been at 20 or 21 in this game.  It's actually a great illustration of the difference between old Kaman and new Kaman.  He was 6 for 12 for 14 points, but by all rights he should have been 8 for 12 for 20 points.  This season, he's been making all of those easy ones - and a fair number of harder ones - and consequently he's been shooting close to 60 percent.  By my math, those couple extra misses a night are the difference between Kaman 1.0 and Kaman 3.0: 7 for 15 is 47% shooting (he shot 45% in 06-07); 8 for 15 is 53%; 9 for 15 is 60%.  If he makes those 1 or 2 easy ones that he used to miss every game, he's a NBA Player of the Week.  There were other indications of Mr. Flippy tonight as well, most signficantly 4 turnovers, almost all of them losing the ball on double teams in the post.
  • Devin Brown tied his career high with 25 points, resurrecting a tradition from last season that I would have just as soon let die.  Are we really going to allow various journeymen and NBA hangers on to have career nights against the team again?  Does Beno Udrih have the Clippers game circled on his calendar?
  • Chris Paul is suddenly a deadly outside shooter.  He was 13 for 19 from three point range coming into the game, which felt flukey.  But all he did was shoot 10 for 14, and 2 for 3 from three, and he did it all effortlessly.  If he's a great outside shooter, there's really no way to stop him.  None.
  • The Clippers got killed on the boards again, 45-36, against a team that is not big.  The rebounding has got to improve.  Al Thornton, who had been rebounding pretty well despite not playing particularly well, managed to get just one rebound in 32 minutes of play.
  • If there is any bright spot at all, it may be that Ricky Davis actually appears capable of helping this team.  He made some shots tonight, and looked much more effective than he ever did last season.  I hope the team never needs him, but appears possible that he can contribute if they do.

Moving on.  Thunder Wednesday.

0 recs  |  Comment 85 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

horrible, just horrible about everything they did tonight. offense was alright starting in the first then new orleans took them apart piece by piece. too many turnovers, no surprise, not shooting well on the other side of the court off 2nd chance points

Clips' Nation
Eagles!

by Goosebumpz on Nov 9, 2009 11:52 PM PST reply actions  

Effort?

No mention of effort? I saw no effort on defense tonight. None at all. Hornet players would miss their own shot, walk right past Clippers bigs and get their own rebounds. Steve mentioned Devin Brown, but this wasn’t just some fluke, that’s what happens when you give an NBA player WIDE OPEN threes to start the game. He had 2 absolutely wide open shots in the corner to start the game. I’m talking nobody even on the same side of court. When you let a guy get that kind of confidence, he’ll have a good night. The defensive rotation was embarrassingly bad.

I can’t count the number of times the Clips had no idea how to defend a pick on CP3 and ended up LEAVING CHRIS PAUL! Yes, let’s leave their best player wide open on a pick.

EJ or not, this game was embarrassing. The Hornets aren’t good enough, and the Clips have too much talent to get blown out by 30 at home. The injuries aren’t an excuse for this kind of loss. It was just lack of effort.

by madglove on Nov 9, 2009 11:52 PM PST reply actions  

Too much talent?

You mean the Hornets have too much talent?

CP3 is the 3rd best player in the league, and David West, their 2nd best player is better than anyone we put on the floor tonight.

If last years team was a 19 win team w/ EJ, what are we without him? Yes, some improved depth, but it’s arguable that the added depth make up for the loss of EJ let alone the real reason for optimism this year, Blake Griffin.

Without our last two top draft picks, we just don’t have much going for us. That’s the bottom line. Anyone notice that the team we whopped on Friday night, Golden State, came back to win by 41 tonight? Crazy game.

by ghost_ride on Nov 10, 2009 12:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I did notice the Dubs win tonight

I hope the team takes it personally to get completely embarrassed at home and comes out hungry on Wednesday. How they bounce back from this will dictate what kind of team we actually have.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Nov 10, 2009 2:05 AM PST up reply actions  

agreed

i can agree with you on that. sometimes i feel that our squad just doesnt have enough heart .. we have all this talent and no grit . see thats the problem dumbleavy has no grit. if the clippers play grimy heart filled basketball we can beat any body i mean anybody. now imagine if we had a coach like phil .. i bet this clipper team would be wayyyy above .500.

by clipperreese09 on Nov 11, 2009 6:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes

…and they stayed in LA. So it wasn’t really that bad.

Clippers 09-10. Prepare for a revolution.

by iankobe on Nov 10, 2009 1:41 AM PST up reply actions  

No Gordon, No Good

I missed seeing EJ tonight. I think it really threw a wrench in the perimeter D. I think the Clips came in overconfident and let the Hornets jump on them. Once Brown was feelin it, he knew he was gonna have a Morrow-Milsap night. After nailing the first 3 bingos there was no way of getting the Brown back on the bag.

by moKi on Nov 10, 2009 12:15 AM PST reply actions  

A loss is a loss...

Whether by 1 point or 28 points, this will still only be a single tally in the loss column. However, along the same lines as CP3 and LeBron both say that they hate losing more than the like winning, I prefer to watch good basketball more than I care for who wins. The effort tonight was pathetic and was certainly not worth the drive, the tickets, etc to the Staples Center. I hope that both Blake and EJ return soon, because I can’t imagine wanting to subject myself to anymore terrible basketball. Hope the team takes something from this and grows stronger..

by bystander on Nov 10, 2009 12:48 AM PST reply actions  

I thought...

when I found out that EJ was out, why not start Novak?

We already know that the Hornets are having trouble defensively, so why not stretch out the defense for Baron and Kaman with Novak on the wing, along side with Butler? The Hornets are NOT going to leave Novak for sure unless they want him to drop our bombs.

Our defense might suffer a little but if Novak can help us with 3 balls, that can surely make up for EJ’s absence.

Clippers 09-10. Prepare for a revolution.

by iankobe on Nov 10, 2009 1:44 AM PST reply actions  

+1

But LESS Butler, that dude is a Brick.

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Nov 10, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Disgusted

I can stand losing but what I can’t stand is a total lack of effort. This game reminded me of the season finale where we just gave up at home against the Thunder. Its ridiculous when the home team gets their ass kicked in front of their crowd. They better come out hard on Wednesday or I’m going to start booing them at home games. We pay a lot of money to attend these games so these guys better be putting in the effort or why bother even being a fan.

Also, how are we not getting any technical fouls? Honestly I don’t want these guys fighting but when you lose by 28 at home I would hope someone would at least care enough to get into it with the refs. There is a line between being passionate and being a jerk and I think the good teams know where the line is drawn.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Nov 10, 2009 2:02 AM PST reply actions  

i respect it

maybe thats what our team needs for us to stop babying them . thats the problem.

by clipperreese09 on Nov 11, 2009 6:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Eh

Back to square one.

by penguin35 on Nov 10, 2009 5:29 AM PST reply actions  

On second thought

I don’t know if that’s the correct wording. This feels like last season’s team suddenly becoming alive. Hope this is a wake up call for every teammate involved.

But I’m not looking forward to the OKC game. I think Durant will destroy us.

by penguin35 on Nov 10, 2009 5:40 AM PST up reply actions  

This is last years team

But I do believe this serves as a wake up call. We beat some really poor teams and we need tighten up the shit. Secondly, camby PnR defensive would sooner or later get exposed. Camby is freelance defender, he doesn’t like being out on top if the key. This would be cured by blake’s presence. I don’t think kaman and camby work well together on the defensive end

by Qlippers on Nov 10, 2009 7:12 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

This is not last years Camby

Last years Camby had tons of offensive rebounds for put backs. I hope he can regain that knack soon!!!!

by sttrumpet on Nov 10, 2009 8:23 AM PST up reply actions  

might have to do with position and offensive schemes

Last years Camby played center, this years Camby plays PF.

Kaman is in the paint, Camby is just outside in the 18 foot range…..how is he going to get an offensive rebound off of that?

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Thunder game is huge

They are really coming on and if we lose to the Thunder, the playoffs will start to look like a pipedream….and Griffin and Gordon will both be out. We need B.Diddy/Kaman/Camby to play at a top level….

by Bellringer21 on Nov 10, 2009 7:39 AM PST reply actions  

you need to start last year's

non-star All-Star of the game again…

Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"

by Lawler's Law on Nov 10, 2009 7:55 AM PST reply actions  

I guess

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Mr. Flippy returned because...

I think he got confused. The defense got tighter on Kaman and he didn’t know how to respond.

He’s big and athletic, but I don’t think he is very coordinated. Also he’s not a quick decision maker, you can almost see him processing out there….definitely some lag.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:17 AM PST reply actions  

We can't beat good or decent teams.

This is not looking like a playoff team. The only teams we manage to beat (and barely) are getting blown out by other teams.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

That’s quite the definitive statement to give after 8 games.

by Michael White on Nov 10, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions  

i didn't mention future games....

…sorry…let me restate so that you don’t need to give any infer anything…

“Thus far”..the only teams we manage to beat (and barely) are getting blown out by other teams.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

woops...

mish mash of sentences

*so that you don’t need to infer anything.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

let me ask you then...

to contribute beyond “ohh welll that is a definitive statement”…

Do you think they look like a playoff team thus far?

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I don’t know what a playoff team looks like. Playoff teams have different win totals in different years, no? A playoff team is one of the best 8 teams in the western conference. . Can’t say if the Clippers are or not because the Clippers have only played 8 games so far and the one where they looked by far the worst is a game where the best player was in street clothes. Maybe the game last night was an outlier or maybe it is an indicator of things to come. Kind of hard to know that two weeks into the season.

by Michael White on Nov 10, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

I can tell you this though...

They lost to the Lakers – given
They lost to the Suns – thought to be a cusp team, must win situation
They lost to the Jazz – another cusp team
They lost to the Mavs – playoff team

They beat the Wolves – bottom dweller
They beat GS – bottom dweller
They beat Memphis – bottom dweller

They have a lot of proving to do.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Wednesday's game is key

If they get their butts kicked again then I’m going to have very low expectations for this team. They just got embarrassed on their home court, the Thunder ran us out of the building in humiliating fashion in last year season finale so there should be a lot of urgency from this team. If they come out with another lackidaisal effort on Wednesday then I think I’m checking out until BG comes back.

Injuries happen in sports but the players you are playing should always competing. I’m loving the Rockets right now who are busting their butts night in and night out even though they aren’t the most talented or most skilled, they simply just want it more.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Nov 10, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

"Thus far"..we do not look like a playoff team.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Any word

on EJ’s return? Does he look certain to return on Wednesday?

by yaggiefresh on Nov 10, 2009 9:19 AM PST reply actions  

Devin Brown "lights out" shooting...

I believe he was wide open for most of those yesterday btw….

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:28 AM PST reply actions  

Defense

The defense wasn’t great, but this is clearly an outlier in Devin Brown’s career. He’s a 33% three point shooter on his career, 29% last season. The first two, as Madglove pointed out, were open corner threes – you don’t like to give that shot to anyone. But if it’s pick your poison time in the scouting report, then they are leaving Devin Brown.

After that, I don’t remember any that I felt like were terrible defense, bad rotations. He just made more threes in a single game than he has in his 419 game career.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

thorton sux

i dont like al anymore he slackin like he got it like that..

by clipperreese09 on Nov 11, 2009 6:48 AM PST up reply actions  

agree

i just think he had a great night thats all he wont be consistent with that i bet ..lol

by clipperreese09 on Nov 11, 2009 6:47 AM PST up reply actions  

why don't we

try and get somebody who can play some D?
maybe trade ricky and al for someone who could start at the 3. then shift sool to the bench and have a 3 guard rotation with him, ej, and whoever we get.
i don’t know who we’d get, or if anyone would take ricky or al, but it’s clear we’re lacking.

also, we need to regain that spark from preseason. maybe this was just one of those nights, who knows.

by baron davis' beard on Nov 10, 2009 9:39 AM PST reply actions  

EJ can play D

BG can play D

When they come back I suspect our D will get better.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah, i wasn’t insinuating that they couldn’t, i just think a defensive minded 3 is our glaring need. maybe we should just throw defense out the window right now, and just run like phoenix and gsw till ej and blake gets back. just play to our strengths.

by baron davis' beard on Nov 10, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Easy month of November

Not so fast, OKC is a much improved team. I know everyone made a big deal that we played a lot of sub 500 teams in November, but this team is very improved and nearly beat the lakers last week and beat Orlando yesterday.

If you add the Gordon injury into the equation, this could end up being a tough month.

by The Blake Griffin Era on Nov 10, 2009 9:42 AM PST reply actions  

If this month is a tough month

Then the rest are really tough months.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

If we can't succeed this month

then we a doomed. We have a lot of home games this month and we aren’t playing any of the elite teams. It now or never.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Nov 10, 2009 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Snowball effect

Pretty interesting to see the effect of the absence of Eric Gordon. Who would have been guarding Devin Brown? Let’s say that Devin Brown makes one 3—does he make a second one against Gordon? Probably not. And you could argue that Brown’s 3s were contagious, and they helped Peja get going, and they set the tone for the first half. Not sure why Butler wasn’t more effective in guarding Brown. Al Thornton didn’t take advantage of his opportunity to play extended minutes. Baron had his hands full, and then, what do you know, Mr. Flippy shows up. You knew it was going to be ugly when Kaman missed those free throws. No mojo at all, with David West getting open and getting rebounds. Just an ugly and unfortunate effort all around.

As much as they missed Gordon, the Clips are extremely dependent on Kaman now, shades of 0607, and it’s hard to say why the other players can’t pick up some slack. Just as missing one or two layups, as SP points out, makes such a big difference in Kaman’s production, there’s not a big difference between the team that squeaked out wins against the Wolves and the Grizzlies and the team that fell apart last night. Baron getting points and assists, Camby rebounding and passing, Craig Smith or Al Thornton scoring off the bench—there are pieces that are supposed to go with the steady Kaman-Gordon engine. Oh well. Sometimes the Clips need to fall apart in order to pick themselves up again. They should have a better effort and approach against OKC, whether Gordon plays or not, but they could start digging a hole for themselves if Gordon doesn’t come back sooner rather than later.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2009 9:51 AM PST reply actions  

AT = Mound of Pebbles?

I’m getting a little fed up with the guy. He had an opportunity last night, and he just didn’t give us ANYTHING. He’s playing like a stale biscuit. He doesn’t deserve all the blame, of course, but he needs to develop an identity. Why doesn’t he focus on offensive rebounding and then getting buckets inside the paint?

by SilverClip on Nov 10, 2009 10:09 AM PST reply actions  

I "think" he's really confused...and being pulled away from what he was

I still remember seeing him on the frosh soph game and he was playing like a different AT. It might just be the coaching or system. He might not be the right fit.

In fact, except maybe Kaman or EJ (who could probably fit in any system)…none of these guys seems to fit well within MDsr’s system.

Remember that one stretch where Dunleavy had to attend a personal matter and Kim Hughes took on the reigns? That was some fun basketball!

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

One game

It’s worth remembering that there’s not a lot of defense played in the frosh-soph game. Thornton was able to run the floor and get to the basket, and he was able to get by his man and didn’t run into a lot of help. These days he seems to be well-defended in most sets and he’s not getting great opportunities. In the last two years, when he was putting up points, he was a primary option and he wasn’t very efficient (and the Clips lost the great majority of those games). Coming off the bench it seems like he should be tearing through second string defenses, but it has only been for three games. Then last night was no good for anybody.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Thornton

I actually feel bad for the guy. He’s clearly been robbed of any confidence. Last night I saw him really try to adapt. He went away from his jab-step parade (which he must have learned from Maggette) and instead put up quick shots (and missed them). And at other times he tried to attack the basket (with mixed results).

I like that he’s trying to adapt. It shows that he’s aware of some of his issues and is trying to change. He just needs to get more comfortable doing that now. So instead of taking quick shots (and missing them), he needs to just take quicker (than his jab-step parade) shots (and make them).

It’s an adjustment. Hopefully he’ll keep his head up and get better. It does make me wonder though how much the coaching staff is actually helping him.

by madglove on Nov 10, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe it is the whole...take a step back take two step forwards

Sometimes when you are trying to change something from your game…you get a bit worse…before you get better..

goes with any sport or any game.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Big adjustment

He seems like he’s focused and trying hard, but he keeps getting stymied somehow. Not sure that having him start the first four games of the season was the best thing to do, in hindsight.

If things can settle down and the rotation becomes more solid—very hard to pull off, especially now with Gordon joining Griffin on the bench—Thornton should have a nice role to play on the team, going on the attack when he comes off the bench.

I think he’s trying, but it’s a very tough situation. Like you I feel kind of bad for him, and I’m not sure it’s going to get better very quickly.

Worth noting the limited number of games that Thornton has actually played with a healthy Kaman on the floor. In 0607, when Kaman 2.0 was humming along, Thornton was buried behind Tim Thomas and Reuben Patterson, not to mention Maggs, for most of the 2.0 era, which only lasted about 50 games. Then there was the beginning of last season, which didn’t last long either. Just noting that a lot of Thornton’s productivity came when the Clips didn’t have Kaman as a primary option.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I agree with both you and Madglove

He’s definitely trying out there and he’s trying to adapt and perform the way the coaches need him to. And yeah I really wonder what the coaching staff is doing to help him through this. He really needs some one-on-one time and I can’t imagine why they can’t find time in 24 hours (their off day) to just work with him solo for a least an hour or two.

I know it’s easy to tear Thornton apart right now but think about what’s being asked of him now during the season. He’s been asked to come off the bench and play significantly less minutes (when EJ was healthy). He’s being asked to remodel pretty much his entire offensive game. All of which has proved to be difficult for him and is clearly stressing him out. In the off season he said he worked on his defense a lot and it’s shown (at least man-to-man).

It seems his confidence is shot and having trouble staying focused when things don’t go his way (missing shots or missing defensive assignments). And like you guys said, I’m afraid it’s going to take him a while to get back into the groove of things.

I also think with AT’s poor play it’s been hiding Butler’s game. He hasn’t shot well at all and has let his man go off these last 2 games. All Butler has going for him is keeping the offensive flow moving.

They’re both killing us and we really need both to pick it up. We should see from Butler, any game now, more consistent offense and defense. AT, looks to have a ways to go. I think most importantly for Al, he needs to stay mentally strong and focused. Get that short term memory working; play in the moment and forget the past.

by dulciusEXasperis on Nov 10, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

What did Butler show you last night?

Or are we ready to admit that Butler’s best attribute is the fact that he isn’t AT…

by Michael White on Nov 10, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Butler's best attribute

is that he’s a credible deep threat. He may not always shoot that well obviously and he has had some games where he’s struggled, but teams know they can’t leave him alone beyond the arc. And as we saw Sat night against Memphis, his 3 pt shooting can really help the team in crucial situations. It’s arguable that the Clips don’t beat Memphis if Butler doesn’t hit that 3 late in the game.

AT obviously isn’t a credible deep threat. And really that’s the bottom line with this team. Like KA pointed out in his latest post, both Baron and Kaman need two credible shooters out there with them.

by madglove on Nov 10, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed - didn't he also hit the three that kept us in the Suns game?

He opens up the court. They really need another post offensive threat. That should help the Kaman double team.

by Jax on Nov 10, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I know a guy who would have been another post offensive threat....

But seriously though, we know Camby is not that guy, so what would you do? Would you consider starting Smith alongside Kaman? I probably wouldn’t. I really like Smith, but he’s a bit small. As most know I’ve never been a big Camby fan, but I can’t help but think that some of Kaman’s early production is a result of Camby doing an excellent job in rebounding so Kaman doesn’t have to. If Smith started alongside Kaman it probably wouldn’t work as well.

So then there’s Griffin. I think starting Griffin (once he is healthy enough to start of course) will be the proper play. He will not be a true post scorer (at least not right away) but his athleticism should be enough to adequately complement Kaman. Plus, he figures to be a better rebounder than Smith if for no other reason than his size.

If only there was another credible post threat who is also good at rebounding :)

by Michael White on Nov 10, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions  

By the way

Zach Randolph, also left off the ASG ballot. Just being associated with the Clippers did him in.

Of course Al Thornton is on the list at forward, so that one is particularly hard to figure. He’s like the only 20-10 guy left in the league, and he’s not on the ASG ballot.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Nov 10, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Zach Randolph being left off is really strange...

If selections are being made based on success/failure of previous seasons, then Zach Randolph should be on the list. If is is based on early play this year (clearly not), a thinner more fit looking Zach Randolph averaging 20-10 and by all accounts playing effective team basketball this season should definitely be on the list. I guess playing for the Clippers and Grizzlies does a lot to knock you off the NBA radar.

Getting back to the Clippers though, I think Camby is a serious problem right now. I have never been a big fan of his game (particularly how he fits on this team), but in the last few games he has looked old and slow. He has still made a few nice blocks and pulled down his rebounds, but athletically it looks like the years are catching up to him. Unfortunately for us he is our best option right now, but with Blake due back in about 5 weeks, I would be looking to trade Camby about 6 weeks from now while there is still a market for him.

by johnnyoc21 on Nov 10, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Butler

What we saw last night from Butler is that the Clips are in trouble when he’s the 3rd or 4th option. He’s not afraid to shoot, but how many games is he going to win for you? And he didn’t stop Devin Harris either.

Need to remember that the Clips are missing two starters, Gordon and Griffin. That takes everybody out of their roles.

The fine line between Kaman missing two extra shots and making two can probably be applied to Butler. If he’s the fifth guy out there and he can hit a few shots, with less pressure on him to put up points, he should be okay.

by citizen zhiv on Nov 10, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Not much...

but Butler isn’t the one who lost his job, and to tell you the truth, I think AT has more talent, which makes his insignificance more frustrating. He may not like the current system, but the system he does like is no good for the Clippers (see Zhiv’s comment above).

I’m pretty sure he COULD be an aggressive, effective rebounder during those stretches where he’s not the first option, which would could amount to several put-backs a game. I also like the idea of having him man up one-on-one defensively, which might play into his talents. One way or another, the guy needs to create a niche for himself.

by SilverClip on Nov 10, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Losses happen but lack of effort in a home game on defense is unacceptable. The fans who do show up for the home team are owed an honest effort. Whatever else Griffin brings to the team when he actually shows up on the court I hope is the fact they should never quit. This team will need to work work work and someone needs to show them that effort has to come every game, the whole game.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on Nov 10, 2009 10:16 AM PST reply actions  

why is it that

we’re struggling, but houston is doing pretty well? we can’t seem to close games, or stay motivated.

by baron davis' beard on Nov 10, 2009 11:17 AM PST reply actions  

Yeah

MD just fails to make any logical moves at the right time.

by dulciusEXasperis on Nov 10, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

that’s what i’m thinking. over the past few years the clippers have been less than average, save a season, and the only constant has been MDSr

by baron davis' beard on Nov 10, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Nov 10, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Butler is not cutting it on D or making open shots and CMDSr can not see it,

in the first Quarter after DBrown hit the 3’s on Butler CMDSr should of changed it up and maybe put BD on Brown put Butler on the Bench and Bassy at the 1. If you know anything about AT you know he is an Isolation player and not a Post Guy, BUT Coach again is Trying some experiment and running AT at the post. CMDSr. should be conducting his experiments at the Unemployment office in the parking lot with some HoBo’s.

The Fans and myself included Pay Good money to see this team perform and not to see them practice Basketball but to play is at a Professional level.

If any one was questioning Who the Leader/Go To Guy is on this Team they found the Answer last night and that in a person named:

Eric Gordon Jr.

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Nov 10, 2009 11:19 AM PST reply actions  

Love everything you said.

MD has basic coaching skills but can’t mentor/teach/lead any of these guys. It really does seem like he doesn’t know how to utilize any of these players.

And it’s baffling because he strayed away from playing down to the opposition (against GSW) and played his bigs instead of going small and it clearly worked. He was making good switches all night. Then we come to last nights game and leave Butler guarding Brown (who was what 3-4 from three in the first quarter?). And Camby clearly wasn’t giving it his all on defense (wasn’t boxing out or trying to contest shots). Smith should of replaced Camby as Smith brings high energy every second he’s out there.

As for Eric being our leader, I think we all want it but he wont be. Not with BD on the team. Eric also doesn’t have leadership characteristics. He can be grow into a go to guy, but leader…not so sure yet. He’s so tuned in and focused during the game (which is freakin great) but doesn’t show much emotion. Blake shows more leadership skills. I think Blake should be molded into the leader/star of the team with Eric being the other star/go to guy….that makes sense right lol.

by dulciusEXasperis on Nov 10, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, and I am glad someone on here gets it.

Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.

by HVYDRT007 on Nov 10, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

haha

i like how you say “basic coaching skills”
kinda like how jr. high coaches have “basic coaching skills”

by baron davis' beard on Nov 10, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Blake has leadership qualities, I can see it in him

I think you are right Blake the leader, EJ the go to guy.

Here’s where someone comes in and says…

“what makes you think you are qualified to make a decision on someones mentality? Are you a certified psychologist?”

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you a child?

That conversation is over and was discussed last week. I don’t see why you felt the need to bait me into another discussion. Many of the parties involved decided to agree to disagree so I’m not sure what your problem is. Are you just bored? Do you need attention?

by Michael White on Nov 10, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn't even recall who stated that

I think it is rather pertinent to the discussion and wanted to put that up there as a precautionary measure.

…makes sense that it was you though.

by Newtybar on Nov 10, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmmm, I think

in a game like last night the players should be getting the blame for the loss. Effort has not been a problem so far this season, so It’s ridiculous to suggest Mike Dunleavy was to blame for the lack of any effort last night. What happened, was the great John Lucas not available last night? Give me a break.

And he doesn’t know how to utilize any of his players? That is completely wrong for everyone on the roster save maybe Thornton this season, who seems out of rhythm on offense right now. Baron’ is running this year, proving that Dunleavy did not have a leash on him last season but rather that he was just overweight and out of shape. Kaman is playing the best basketball of his life. Gordon is playing very well, and he and Butler are playing on the court at the same time together to take advantage of the double teams on Chirs Kaman. Sebastian Telfair and Craig Smith have both been effective off the bench, so I am really not seeing where player management is a problem.

Dunleavy has not been perfect this season, and his lineups in the latter stages of some of the games early on this season were frustrating, but lets remember we just won three in a row and cleaned up the turnovers quite a bit in that stretch. MDSR can’t shoot our free throws for us, nor can he do anything about the fact that two of our starters, Griffin and EJ, were in street clothes last night, the latter being our best player. The sets look pretty good to me, and the players seem to be buying into the offense. But Baron keeps getting into foul trouble, 3 point shooters have not been knocking down shots at a consistent enough rate considering the looks they have been getting (Im talking to you, Butler), and we cant shoot free throws.

Last night we lost to a team because they came out on a mission and we came out really flat. The sad truth is that without Gordon we are going to struggle, but we might still win some games if we just show up, and that is on the players.

by johnnyoc21 on Nov 10, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

You make some good points but if the players aren't performing then HE should switch them out.

I’m talking about coaching, not about the play of the team. Of course he has no influence on how well or poor they play. Kaman can play well or not. Baron can be in shape or not. Still doesn’t excuse MD, for example, leaving Camby out there when he’s clearly under performing. To the extent where he wont box out, puts little effort on defense, and watches the ball and doesn’t attempt to grab the rebound. How do you let David West grab 5 offensive boards, a couple of them being a rebound from his missed shot. Smith has the energy and size to keep up with him, and if Camby was struggling that much, why not give it a try. Camby is only in there for his defense but it wasn’t there last night. Smith has been playing very well off the bench. The game was already out of hand so why not mix it up instead of staying with the unit that gave you a 20 point deficit. Smith played a whole 12 minutes….

Another example, if Butler can’t guard his man throw Ricky out there, or Collins, or Baron and put Bassy at point. You can’t just stick with the starter just because they’re a “starter”. If they aren’t performing play someone who will. You can’t always play by the book which MD does….and his book isn’t even that good to begin with. This is MD’s team, not Lucas’ and not Hughes. It’s his responsibility to command his unit and create a competitive combination.

In the end, yes the players will make or break the game with their play. But we have a coach for a reason. It’s his job to counter the opposition, not stick with the same plan until the 4th quarter roles around and the game is out of reach.

by dulciusEXasperis on Nov 10, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions  

What's the news on Rhino's eye?

The announcers last night made it sound like it could be serious. I’d hate to lose him too.

by SilverClip on Nov 10, 2009 12:33 PM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Clips Nation!
Start posting about the Clippers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Eric Gordon was below average last season

Recent FanPosts

Small
bring back James Singleton!
Small
Steve Novak
Small
Bring in Iverson!!!
Small
RUDY FERNANDEZ
Buzzerbeater_small
Anyone on today's forum at noon!?
Small
SEASON TICKET SALES
Small
Beckoning the real Olshey
Karate-kid-photo_small
Remembering 2006
5452_small
Paging John R. Re: Chris Kaman's 07-08 Rebounding Numbers
Small
Questions....

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS

SBNation.com Recent Stories

 LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh of the Miami Heat speak after being introduced to fans during a welcome party at American Airlines Arena on July 9 2010 in Miami Florida.  (Photo by Doug Benc/Getty Images)

How Good Will LeBron James And The Miami Heat Be In 2011? Hint: Very Good

Lorenzen Wright 
(Getty Images) +7 updates

Lorenzen Wright's Body Found In Memphis, Police Conduct Homicide Investigation

Chris Paul LeBron James

'The Miami Model': Why Greed Is Good, And The NBA's Superteam Era Will Be Great

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Clipsnation_small Steve Perrin