Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jerry Sandusky's Wife Tries To Run A Reporter Over

You might've seen it before but since he's coming to town this is very worthwhile: an excellent (and lengthy) article by Michael Lewis (from last Feb) in the NY Times. Lots on Daryl Morey, stats, and the Rockets organization.

about 2 years ago Joc_01_tiny John Raffo 3 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Great stuff

Michael Lewis wrote the book that influened me the most (Moneyball) regarding statistics, so I put a lot of credibility into what he writes.

There’s plenty of stuff to discuss in this article (and I’d be happy to talk about this stuff all day long) and even though I haven’t finished reading the article yet (it’s pretty long) two things immediatelly jumped out at me.

"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."

Yup, that’s the first step towards a breakthrough. That reminds me of the same problem in baseball. As Lewis details in Moneyball, the baseball box score was developed in the 1800’s by an Englishman who was familiar with the game of cricket. I found it fascinating that the same stats are being used over one hundred years later, and were developed by a guy who didn’t even understand baseball! If that doesn’t speak to the relative inneffectiveness of the baseball card stats, i don’t know what does.

Back to basketball, I think the idea for the current boxscore in basketball was probably developed by people familiar with the game of baseball, not basketball. Assists are probably a good example, where people get credit for assists, but not for “double assists.” The post player who passes out of the double team did more to create the scoring oppurtunity, then the guy did who received the pass from the power forward and passed it to the shooting guard. Only one of those guys got credit for the assist. Perhaps its time to give a more discriminating look to those statistics as well.

That being said, I’m not a smart enough guy to develop my own stats, I’ve gravitated towards PER, but somebody smarter than me with have to come up with the stats, but realizing the box score may be outdated is a step in the right direction.

When he is on the court, his teammates get better, often a lot better, and his opponents get worse — often a lot worse. He may not grab huge numbers of rebounds, but he has an uncanny ability to improve his teammates’ rebounding. He doesn’t shoot much, but when he does, he takes only the most efficient shots.

I thought this was weak. It may be true, but that kind of statement seems sort of misplaced when discussing how Morey uses “advanced statistics” to find inefficiencies in the system. Especially since Lewis states, “There are other things Morey has noticed too, but declines to discuss as there is right now in pro basketball real value to new information, and the Rockets feel they have some.”

While that makes sense, it still gives the same problem we currently have now. If stats are weak, then rely upon what you see. Sounds easy enough. Obvious problem though is that you can’t watch these players enough to get a good feel for their true abilities without falling into a sample size trap. I watch Eric Gordon plenty, but OJ Mayo infrequently. If I don’t use stats to even the playing field, then I’m relying on the 3 games I have seen Mayo versus the season plus I have seen of Gordon.

You also can’t use the, “Battier helps his team win.” If wins and losses were paramount, then we would consider Robert Horry the best player in the past 20 years. Obviously there needs to be something else. Perhaps Morey figured out what that something else is (and more power to him, I wouldn’t announce it to the world either) but I’m still searching for it…

by Michael White on Dec 1, 2009 11:13 AM PST reply actions  

Please read Wages of Wins.

At least the basketball chapters.

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Dec 1, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Great read here

I still have about a third left to go. Battier must be an unusual guy to talk to… an anti-social savant?

I wonder a bit who he’ll guard tomorrow. AT I imagine, but I’d like to see him try to guard a healthy EJ. Or how about Kaman? Or even Baron! Are they really serious, in other words, about Battier always guarding the other team’s best player.

by SilverClip on Dec 1, 2009 9:37 PM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Clips Nation!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Letter from Elton Brand to Clip Nation

Recent FanPosts

Blake_griffin_cropped_small
It was a good day
Small
Poll: April 27th where do you see the Clippers?
Small
40-26 and getting there
Small
Are we showing Mo enough love?
Blake-griffin-dunk_small
JR Smith. Yay or Nay?
Small
Moving past Feb 7, 2012
Small
New Member-Trade Suggestion
34008_1531733776948_1342861896_3019627_1265958_n_small
Who Else is Going to the 76ers Game?
Small
Farewell Note to King Solomon
Small
Should we go after Eremy Lin?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Clipsnation_small Steve Perrin

Editors

Joc_01_small John Raffo

Authors

Blake-griffin-dunk_small Lawler's Law