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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Clippers 120 - Minnesota 95 - Now That's More Like It

In the preview for this game I discussed how so many of the Clippers victories this season have been ugly.  Going back through the 10 wins prior to tonight, it's really true.  This was only their fourth double digit win of the season, and two of the earlier ones were the Indiana game in which they shot under 35% and the last Memphis game in which they played poorly for 43 minutes, and then closed on 20-0 run.  So basically, you have the Golden State game, the Denver game and now tonight where the team played well more or less start to finish. 

The difference is amazing.  I suppose it shouldn't be such a rare occurrence, such a seeming luxury, to have multiple players play well on the same night.  But for the Clippers, it almost never happens.  Though many players on the team are talented and fully capable, it seems that in every game two or three or four of them are simply missing in action.

Tonight the team was firing on all cylinders.  Three players scored over 20.  Six were in double figures.  The team shot 52% and had 30 assists and 11 blocked shots against only 10 turnovers.  They outrebounded the Timberwolves 48-43 (rebounding being one of the few things Minnesota does well).  They scored a season-high 120 points.

Star-divide

Of the top six players, only Al Thornton had anything less than a terrific game, and he was fine at 14 points on 6 for 12 shooting.  The rest all made their fantasy owners very happy tonight:

  • Eric Gordon - 25 points on 8 for 14 shooting (but only 7 for 13 from the line - what's the deal there?);
  • Baron Davis - 13 points, 13 assists and 8 rebounds;
  • Marcus Camby - 10 points, 18 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 blocks (wow);
  • Chris Kaman - 23 points, 10 rebounds;
  • Rasual Butler - 21 points, 5 for 8 on three pointers.

So that's what it feels like when everyone plays well at the same time.  Who knew?

Now obviously, this was Minnesota, the only team in the Western Conference that's already thinking about the lottery.  But still, the Wolves have been playing better lately, and the Clippers did what they needed to do to start this road trip. 

It's particularly good to see Rasual Butler shooting the ball with confidence.  He looked like a different player tonight.  He actually made a couple of threes against Washington on Monday, but if you noticed, the first one rattled around before it went in.  On his five makes tonight I don't think he touched the rim.  He was really in a groove and I barely recognized him.  Does this mean he's completely out of the slump?  He's scored 36 points in the last two games on 13 for 26 shooting with 7 threes.  It really makes a difference to have him as a threat and Gordon back.  If you think about it, for most of the games that Gordon missed, Butler was struggling terribly, so during that stretch the Clippers had no outside shooting to speak of.  When they have legitimate threats stretching the floor, it enhances their offense immeasurably.

Now they need to simply carry over this game into Friday night in New York.

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Another solid victory!!

by M F on Dec 16, 2009 11:37 PM PST reply actions  

Why is anybody shocked with Camby's preformance?

We should all already know that Camby provides awesome support at rebounding and blocking shots. It’s no surprise to me at all. To me, its just that Camby has another great game. I mean last year, sometime around this year, Camby was on a rebounding rampage. We’re talking about 3 20 rebound game’s in 4 games. One game where he had 27 rebounds. Maybe I’m missing the big picture, but i felt as if Camby is still (and always was) capable of being consistant day in and day out. If it’s the blocks, it’s no secret that Camby can block. He practically won defensive player of the year because of that. If its the 6 assist, I alwasy thought Camby was a pretty good passing big man. Part of it might be because he’s constantly near the midrange jumpshot and not downlow like most centers. Anyways, I’m just saying I wasn’t surprised at all with Camby’s performance.

by JackduhSun on Dec 16, 2009 11:40 PM PST reply actions  

Today was about getting the offense going and using the weapons

Against the Knicks we are going to need to play sound defense the Clippers can’t afford to let any player get hot. The Knicks have also recently stepped up on D so we have to be careful. Tonight though was a needed win.

by KillaClip on Dec 17, 2009 12:07 AM PST reply actions  

Watching that game made my life better...

Really wonderful showing from everyone… Brian Skinner coming through big with four fouls and a turnover while scaring the living daylights out of Nathan Jawai.

Yay yay.

by KamanHomie on Dec 17, 2009 1:25 AM PST reply actions  

This was the 1st time this season

I got through a Clip game and didn’t think, “Man, we need to make changes to our roster.” Trade for TMac? Steve Blake? Mike Miller or Rudy Gay? Naaah… who needs them! ;-)

But I don’t want to get too blissed-out over beating the Twolves. Like you say, SP, when our wings are hitting their jumpers, it makes a tremendous difference. So in particular, let’s see if Butler and AT can show up night in and night out. We’re going to be playing better teams soon enough, and it’ll be lame if all their defenses have to do is lay off BD from the outside. It’s fortunate that the next two games are against not-so-good teams; it’s an important opportunity to develop some consistency.

When are wings are hitting, it loosens the whole offense up. So let’s be honest about one thing: Dunleavy deserves some criticism, but it wasn’t his fault that EJ was injured and Butler was cold.

by SilverClip on Dec 17, 2009 7:06 AM PST reply actions  

Team chemistry

In the effort to maintain an even keel, let’s not get too excited about such a nice victory against the hapless Wolves. It’s nice, however, to get healthy and gain confidence against a struggling team, and we’ve seen lots of other squads take advantage of the Clippers.

Worth acknowledging that Baron Davis’ work over the summer, and his detente with Dunleavy, is paying consistent dividends. We’re seeing how BD represents a favorable matchup against the majority of opposing PGs, and how he does a good job of getting everybody involved. He certainly seems to be a completely different player from last year, and he gets better as he has more weapons at his disposal. The backcourt of BDavis-EGordon is formidable, and it’s also consistently strong. Unlike a lot of other sophs or rookies, it’s hard to imagine Eric Gordon having a poor game where he’s forcing shots, turning the ball over, and getting flustered, and instead he puts tremendous pressure on the opponent. BDavis can have his very poor shooting nights and take some questionable shots, but he has been remarkably consistent about handling the ball and getting into defenses. He’s at the top level of the league in assists, and he seems to do it rather effortlessly—it’s not even a part of his game that gets a lot of focus. With Gordon back and the Clips able to spread the floor, my guess is that BD’s assist numbers will go up at least a tick or two.

The LAT chose to focus on the growing relationship and chemistry of BD and Kaman. We can all see it. As far as I know, BD has never played with a scoring big man like Kaman, or a rebounder/shot blocker like Camby either. BD’s mix and chemistry with the Kaman/Camby combo is what we thought we were going to see last season. It’s better late than never I suppose, although in his latest KA points out that the Clips are going to have a tough decision about holding onto Camby, when he’s so attractive to contending teams that want to step up to the next level. It’s interesting too that both Kaman and BDavis’ stocks have to be trading higher, making a rather major deal both more possible and more questionable at the same time. Why shouldn’t the Clips themselves gain the benefit of the strong play of BD and Kaman, especially when they’re complementing each other?

One intriguing way to look at Camby’s role and value is through the change that the team will undergo with the arrival of Blake Griffin. It’s possible to see that addition as essentially the same thing as a pre-deadline move, making a deal for an outstanding rookie PF. In doing so, Camby moves into the exact same role for which he is coveted by other teams. The Clips will be adding Griffin, but the result is the same as it would be in “adding” Camby to a contender. It’s the extra boost that a team needs to distinguish themselves and build momentum through the second half of the season and perhaps into the playoffs. Of course, the Clips have put themselves in a position where they’re going to need this boost and then some to get there.

At any rate, it’s great to see how well things can work when everybody is filling their roles and working hard, and the Clips have another win and are another day closer to Griffin’s crucial bone scan. They’ve got some momentum and have been playing good D as they head to NYC. They’ll be making steady, solid progress if they hang in through the first half of this road trip, and we’ll know a whole lot more about the team (and Griffin) by the time they get back to Staples.

by citizen zhiv on Dec 17, 2009 8:29 AM PST reply actions  

Pretty funny, Zhiv...

You caution about going overboard with enthusiasm… then you go overboard with enthusiasm. But, why not? Everybody’s ready to bridge-jump when we lose to quality or better-than-ordinary teams, I’m all for throwing some confetti when we beat up on a bad team.
Nice points about the potential value of Camby and perhaps BD… but I’m returning to the primary Zhivian philosophy of “do nothing”. Not many guys around the league can do what those guys do when they’re engaged. And if they’re engaged now, what might it be like if the team is fighting for playoff position?
Finally, I think last night we got a little taste of what Baron and EJ can be on the floor together. Baron was generous and aggressive and EJ was both strong and outrageously quick, dangerous from anywhere on the court. To me, for the first time, they really seemed to mesh… and with the resurgence of Rasual Butler, the Clips didn’t fall into a hole when the starters went to the bench.
Nice.

by John Raffo on Dec 17, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Happy to amuse

Especially myself. Yeah, sg, you’re so right. I wanted to make the point that it’s nothing, a win over a horrible team, and make a small comment on good team chemistry, mentioning how the LAT points to Baron and Kaman playing well together. But along the way, in talking about chemistry, it starts to turn into look at how great Camby is! The Clips put up 120 and Al Thornton didn’t even get going, and he has been great for a month! How awesome is Eric Gordon! Think about that guy and this new, exciting Baron Davis!

Have to take what you can get, and this may just be a nice schedule pocket. And the Clips may be in a better place to take advantage of it than they were during the seeming soft stretch in November. It turns out that playing the Wizards, Wolves, and we hope the Knicks is a lot better than playing the Funk and the Thunder. I like the point made in the thread here about how important the win and good play and successful rally against Wizards was. It really did set the stage for last night. Orlando and San Antonio are a different story, but right now the Clips are making hay while the sun shines.

Kind of interesting to get these wins. Any road win, of course, is nice. But it’s also about the totals, the 11 wins as a whole, relative, first of all, to the 19 total wins last year. One goal for the Clips is to blow through that number as quickly as possible, and with 7 out of the last 11 and 11 total wins they might be back on track. Get to 20 wins, and then try to map out getting to 30. At 30, you’ve already exceeded the expectations of many Clipper naysayers, and you’ve lessened the trauma of 19 wins a bit. Of course, there’s a big difference between being 30-20, 30-30, and 30-40.

At any rate, the Clips are out of the cellar and have separated themselves from the bottom dwellers. The next hurdle is to move towards the top of the pile of mid-level teams. As SP pointed out, matchups against direct competition like the Thunder, Portland, the Hornets, Sacramento, Houston and others are crucial. That, and hoping to see Blake Griffin play 50+ games.

Core philosophy with Camby, Kaman, BD and even Thornton looks very good thses days.

by citizen zhiv on Dec 17, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

I like the idea of taking things in stages

Just a couple days ago, if I recall, we were talking about looking at things quarter by quarter (the 4th v Memphis, the 3rd v Orlando), just so we could count up some successes. Then there’s the chatter about being at .500 by the time Blake returns. However we break it up, the fact is that improvement will come gradually. It’s pretty self defeating to set giant goals immediately.

SP was saying yesterday that 3-3 on this road trip might be the best we should expect. After last night, alas, I got caught up dreaming of 6-0. It’s probably best not to do that. I wonder, though, if teams ever sit down before a road trip and set up their win-loss expectations.
 
I’ll say this: I expect us to play sharp against NY. We should win if we do.

by SilverClip on Dec 17, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL - was thinking the exact same thing

One nice game and Zhiv’s back with a vengeance

"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by Jax on Dec 18, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Which, I guess is why he's a Clipper fan

"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by Jax on Dec 18, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

120

The Denver win was obviously our best win in terms of the competition, but last night was pretty good too, considering the Wolves were coming off a nice win in Utah and now have Kevin Love back. What would the game have looked like w/out Love?

One thing I really liked in particular was the ball distribution. Other than BD taking 17 shots, Gordon & Kaman should be getting the most attempts now, but it seems like they opened things up more, not just dumping the ball in to Kaman in the half court. The team just seemed liberated, and usually that’s the result of the 2nd team coming in and kicking some butt like we did against Denver. With Butler hitting 5 of 8 three’s, that’s basically like him making all eight of his shots if they were all 2 pointers. We’ve proved to be a tough team to beat when we have at least two shooters (Bulter, EJ), who can spread the floor. Obviously, Kaman & Camby reaped the rewards inside.

In looking over all the scores last night, I noticed our 120 was more than any other team put up last night, pretty cool.

Other random stats: We played to a +22 during Craig Smith’s 14 minutes, and +3 the rest of the way. Shows how important the 2nd team can be. Also, Skinner was the only player to log a negative +/-, but he earned that with no positive stats to go along with 4 fouls and a turnover.

by ghost_ride on Dec 17, 2009 9:30 AM PST reply actions  

Time to reactivate DJ

Forget the BS.

I know I’m pretty fairweather on the topic, but man I really like DJ!

by Newton Pham on Dec 17, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I want to like DJ

but the fact is, he’s not a good basketball player at this point.

by Michael White on Dec 17, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I which they had drafted CDR

It kills me to see him starting and doing well for the Nets

"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by Jax on Dec 18, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

From the grain of salt department

It’s funny I was going to post those plus minus stats too, but I didn’t want to anger the beast that is BSkinnz.

Depending on how much value you put in things like these (but in the same vein as other random stats) there are currently two players on the Clippers with negative win shares. Meaning the more these two play, the more they hurt the Clippers. The two culprits? Brian Skinner and Deandre Jordan. Ouch. Perhaps its no big coincidence that Chris Kaman leads the team in minutes played. Mardy Collins, Ricky Davis, and Kareem Rush are at an even 0.0. Everybody else is positive. Marcus Camby is the leader win a WS of 3.0.

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2010.html

by Michael White on Dec 17, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Interesting

It’s easy to see how they’re both relatively ineffective players. DJ is obviously the more volatile of the two, he has the ability to really help the team with some energy off the bench, but also has the ability to really mess things up in a hurry. I think Dunleavy’s right to finally give Skinner some playing time to see what he can do, and he was also right to let DJ get the nod to start the season coming off a good training camp. Hopefully, DJ can take this time to work on his game in practice and come back on the court better prepared to help.

by ghost_ride on Dec 17, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed. I've a hunch

DJ will come back stronger from this. I bet he’ll have a good showing sometime this road trip.

by SilverClip on Dec 17, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Plus-minus stats also said kevin durant sucked...

Brian Skinner, another victim of the white man’s statistics. I’m just kidding, I am fully aware that BSkinnz is not actually a good player, but god damnit it is really fun to look at him and it is amazing to watch him play well. I don’t think he should be above DeAndre on the depth chart, i think DeAndre has some serious potential and can be a really solid player and he needs some PT to do that. That being said, Brian Skinner is the future of Clippers basketball, and he will eat Steve Perrin’s diploma. BSkinnz, BWinnz.

Yay yay.

by KamanHomie on Dec 17, 2009 12:32 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

KamanHomie has rapidly become my fav citizen...

Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"

by Lawler's Law on Dec 17, 2009 1:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks dudes, I appreciate that...

Sadly, my constant Brian Skinner non-sense will become old, but until then I’ll take the compliments :)

Yay yay.

by KamanHomie on Dec 17, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

We need EJ to play

but when Sool is hitting his shots, it opens the floor so much.

by Qlippers on Dec 17, 2009 9:50 AM PST reply actions  

Is it just me?

Or does Baron seem to be making very creative and electrifying assists during the past few games? Ever since that one tank job he had a couple of weeks ago, he’s like a different player. Many of his amazing passes don’t even go for scores because the other Clips get surprised by the pass. A great pass with the style and flair that he puts on the ball means more to a team than just a good solid pass that leads to a bucket. I think these types of passes hype up a team and their fans as much as a highlight reel dunk. Baron’s value is more than what’s showing in his stats right now. He’s getting the team involved in creative, inspiring ways, he’s really trying hard on D, limiting ill-advised shots, taking it to the hole, rebounding, and making his free throws. Totally different player than last year – much more than the stats indicate.

by Jerdog on Dec 17, 2009 9:51 AM PST reply actions  

Winning is Helping...

As CS mentions, with the amount of ugly wins we’ve had, I think just being able to pull out a lot of these close games is helping the confidence in the team as a whole. For instance, getting that W against Washington on getaway night set a good tone for the road trip, as we saw last night. The more we win and show what we’re capable of, the more BD will be into it, and when he’s into it, there’s a big trickle down effect.

by ghost_ride on Dec 17, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Love watching Baron

Now, if he’ll just cut back even more on those quick outside sides (maybe 2 or 3 fewer per game), then he’ll really be golden. It’s fine with me if he only shoots around 40%… His game is so much more multi-dimensional than that.

by SilverClip on Dec 17, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Ya

he was only 2 rebounds away from a triple double yesterday! I love them triple doubles. Maybe In and Out can start making triple doubles.

Baron is also like 3rd in the league in steals percentage, so he is getting it done defensively too….

by Michael White on Dec 17, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm anticipating a quadruple double

With steals as the fourth. I’m told it’s been done, but only a few times. …I’d think of something else to say here, but I’m too transfixed by the dialogue going on just below us now.

by SilverClip on Dec 17, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Only four times

Nate Thurmond 1974- 22 points, 14 rebounds, 13 assists, 12 Blocks (in overtime though)
Alvin Robertson 1986- 20 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists, 10 steals
Hakeem Olajuwon 1990- 18 points, 16 rebouns, 10 assists, 11 blocks
David Robinson 1994- 34 points (holy crap!) , 10 rebounds, 10 assists, 10 blocks

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_(basketball)

by Michael White on Dec 17, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Geeze

and I’m impressed when Camby blocks 5.

by SilverClip on Dec 17, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Baron has been making brilliant passes since Pre-Season 2008. It's his team mates that routinely blow them.

"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.

by Gordon for President on Dec 17, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

How do you tell the difference?

If a pass isn’t caught, how do you divide up blame?

If I threw a catchable ball to a man with no hands, isn’t the turnover still my fault?

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Dec 17, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

"If I threw a catchable ball to a man with no hands, isn’t the turnover still my fault?"

Yes.

But if you threw the ball to a man and hit him in the hands and the guy lost it anyway, then it’s not your fault, even if the stats say it is. Unless as a coach you want to tell your players to flat out not pass to a certain guy.

It’s really not that hard to tell whose fault it is on most passing turnovers.

by madglove on Dec 17, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Cool

So now we have the two extremes sorted out. Thanks for the clarification.

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Dec 17, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

You're welcome

Since you’re the one who can’t seem to tell whose fault it is in extreme situations.

by madglove on Dec 17, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Except you missed the point completely

The existential question was is once it is determined that a certain type of pass isn’t working, be it “brilliant” or not, if his teammates “routinely blow them” shouldn’t he stop making them?

The answer is yes of course. Nothing to do with stats or who to assign blame to in that sense. It wasn’t about any given turnover, it was about patterns of behavior. I apologize if I was thinking too big picture for you, but your unsolicited reply to what was ultimately a rhetorical question is noted.

Why so grouchy today? Clipper blowout win got you down?

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Dec 17, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Except...

There is the possibility that said teammates will improve at catching said passes as they become more accustomed to them and expect them. The question there becomes are they surprised by the passes, or simply incapable of catching them? It’s obvious that you can get over surprise by repetition, even if guys who’ve been playing basketball their whole lives probably won’t suddenly develop better hands.

Are we not seeing Kaman catch Baron Davis passes that he ‘routinely’ missed last season?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Dec 17, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Not grouchy here

You’re the one with the sarcastic response. Did you take my stats comment as a shot or something? It wasn’t a shot at you. Just a statement that the stats would attribute that specific TO to the passer when it’s the fault of the player on the receiving end.

And no, the answer to your question isn’t “yes of course.” If you’re talking about the no-look, behind the back, through 3 people in transition to a big, then yes. But if you’re talking about good basketball passes that should result in an easy layup, you can’t just stop making those passes b/c your teammates are too dumb to catch them. You keep working at it in practice and talking to your teammates so they learn to anticipate them. It’s really not often that the players are simply incapable of catching a pass as your ridiculous man with no arm example implies. Even the most rock-handed center in the NBA can catch most passes. It’s more about expectation and anticipation than physical ability.

You’ll forgive me if I choose to reply to any post I choose, solicited or not. Ironic given your very own unsolicited reply to Gordon for President’s post is how this all started. Pot.

by madglove on Dec 17, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I'll take a shot at the defensive stat geek

All you have to do to see whose fault it is is to watch the game.

Try it some time.

"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by Jax on Dec 18, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Mind blown, send help asap....

“The existential question was is once it is determined…”
I tried my Strunk’s, a calculator, and a ouija board… still makes no sense. John R often writes in his native Martian and translates back to English using Babelfish.

by John Raffo on Dec 17, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Not that anyone cares...

But I meant my “Strunk and White’s”….

by John Raffo on Dec 17, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I care

"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by Jax on Dec 18, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Gotta say...

I don’t care for the tone of some of the posts here, can we keep it sophisticated? My original post goes to the countless times I’ve seen Kaman and DJ utterly astonished that the ball appears in their hands when they have perfect position, only to bungle it away while trying to contemplate just how it got there. Granted, I’m loving the increased chemistry between Kaman and BD; it’s actually been developing for a while now. Just have to hope it gets even better.

Go team!

"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.

by Gordon for President on Dec 17, 2009 12:11 PM PST reply actions  

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