Houston 108 - Clippers 99 - If It's Not One Thing, It's Another
by Steve Perrin on Dec 23, 2009 2:18 AM PST
in Game Recaps
234 comments
The Clippers held the Rockets' two leading scorers, Aaron Brooks and Trevor Ariza, who average 17 points each, to 7 points apiece, on combined 4 for 19 shooting. They also limited the Rockets to 5 for 18 from three, including 1 for their last 10 - three point shooting being a key to the Rockets win over the Clippers earlier this month. So you'd think this game might have gone LA's way. You'd think.
Instead, every other Rocket player picked up the slack, first and foremost Carl Landry. Playing just a couple days after major oral surgery to repair the damage done by Dirk Nowitzki's elbow, Landry scored 27 points on 7 for 10 shooting and 13 of 15 free throws. The Clippers hung around in the second half, and cut the lead to two in the fourth quarter. But they never led after the last minute of the first quarter, and the Rockets prevaild 108 to 99.
I actually spent all day today at Disneyland with the family. I watched the game on the DVR about midnight after getting home, and so it's pretty late as I work on this recap. Which is my way of saying, lower your expectations. I don't know why the Clippers couldn't stop - couldn't come close to stopping, really - Landry, Luis Scola, or David Andersen, who combined to shoot 19 for 27. Someone commented on the preview today that the Rockets are the anti-Clippers. The Clippers have tons of talent on paper, but seem to underachieve on the floor. The Rockets are the opposite. When the Clippers need a player to step up, it almost never happens. The Rockets are the opposite. When the Clippers need a bucket, they get a turnover. When the Rockets need a play - they get a play. They are the anti-Clippers.
Case in point - the Rockets are an undersized team, and as such they are 27th in the league in blocked shots. With the Clippers still clinging to a faint hope in this game, down six with the ball with a minute to go, Ariza blocked Eric Gordon's layup. Still down six seconds later, Scola blocked Baron Davis' layup. The Rockets, the fourth worst shot blocking team in the league, got three blocked shots in the final minute of the game. Why? Because they needed them.
By contrast, when the Clippers got the lead down to 2 at 91-89 early in the fourth quarter, and had the ball with a chance to tie or take the lead, they really needed a bucket. But when Baron dished out of the lane to the corner to Rasual Butler deep in the shot clock, Butler decided to pass up the three ball, and instead earned a shot clock violation. The next trip down, Craig Smith took a nice pass from Kaman and instead of going straight up with it, he decided to loop under the basket, and instead stepped out of bounds. The next trip Gordon missed a fast break layup (he reacted as if he was fouled). The next trip Butler missed a three. The next trip, Kaman turned the ball over. By the end of this sequence, the Clippers had on five key possessions turned the ball over three times, missed on layup, and missed one three. And suddenly instead of being down 2, they were down 10. Game over.
The Clippers squandered a career high 29 points from Chris Kaman and a 50% shooting night for the team. But Eric Gordon struggled, and with Houston scoring 65 points in the first half and 108 in the game, LA needed Gordon to shoot better than 6 for 17 in a shootout.
Last thing - it's pretty clear that fouls were a factor in this game. The Clippers were not getting a lot of whistles from the refs, something that did not go unnoticed by MDsr and Kaman, who each picked up technical fouls arguing non-calls (and for what it's worth, they were both bad calls - Kaman was definitely fouled each time). Houston took 17 more free throws in the game, and made 11 of them. That was more than enough to get them over the top.
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IT'S THE BENCH
One hopeful thing from this season is that that this team is not that far from being ok. because the starters are actually pretty good. GM MDSR bech is truly awful and games like this are lost by that awful bench. Blake might change that that but only if no one else if injured. This team has been pretty lucky when it comes to injuries when you think about it-Baron Kaman, and Camby have been healthy all year and no expected that.
It’s time to cut Ricky and Rush and get some live bodies and try to get some help
Yep, in almost all of the recent games the Clips start out strong. They get the ball to Kaman and he’s scoring almost at will. Then they bring in the 2nd unit and the scoring goes out the window. It’ll be nice when Blake is back because we won’t have to see Craig Smith driving and then having the ball go off his knee atleast 3 times a game. They really need to do a better job of playing off the double team. Kaman is playing well enough that most teams are doubling him most of the time. You need to either be cutting to the hoop or spotting up for a shot you can make when that happens. Gordon has really been struggling the past few games, making really bad plays and mental errors. Kaman seems to feel like he has to do it all and starts trying to make plays he is not able to make and turning the ball over. This team is good enough to compete in the west if they tweak some things, but I have a feeling Dunleavy isn’t the one to get them there.
Butler's shot clock violation
That play was the turning point, when we can tie or take a lead at the juncture of the game.
Butler stood there for good ten seconds, but never looked up the shot clock was near expiration. even I was aware he took extra step before he took that shot. was one tenth of second too late.
by Pats fan in CA on Dec 23, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Turning point
That boneheaded play by Butler was definitely a turning point. You could really see how pissed off Baron was when Rasual didn’t take the shot.
That soft a$$ punk Camby
I swear how many times did he let Anderson/Scola burn him consistent because he can’t play man defense to say his damn life. I swear his man defense is like watching Novak out there. Kaman was brutal but over used I swear Dunleavy thinks about the quarter he is in and doesn’t have a plan to finish the game. Kaman logged huge mintues and had to carry the offense because the game plan was to keep going to him all the whille he was tired down and having to guard landry on the other end he was doomed from the start.
Read this good and hard we will not improveas a team unless on of two things happen Mike Dunleavy Sr. is fired or Blake Griffin can take this team t the next level despite Dunleavy. You can take the t the damn bank.
LOL wait
So the Clippers should refrain from going to Kaman so he doesn’t tire out, even if he is the only thing working?
Isn’t that really just conceding the game? What are you saving him for?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Right
Not sure what MDsr is supposed to do. The starters can play but the bench is brutal. You either stretch out the starters or watch the bench potentially blow the game for you. He opted to stretch out his starters.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
They need a different offense
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
And if we need better reserves, the GM needs to get them
This gets back to madglove’s mancrush on Sessions. He’s stagnating in Minny. Maybe they can still pry him away.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
From watching Sessions this year
I can see why a lot of you guys like him. He likes to run, that’s for sure.
I agree with your point. The bench sucks, and the GM should be held accountable for that.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
I doubt Sessions would be playing 12 mins / game
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not sure I understand...
Is that irony? I assume you’re saying he’d be playing more minutes…?
Is Sessions worth that number one pick? I don’t think so, but the Clips need bench help now.
What an odd description
for a recent defensive player of the year, who got 19 rebounds last night.
Yes, Camby is old in NBA terms, but soft? I don’t think so.
Who cares if he was a defensive player of the year?
I have no faith in voting awards. Too much of that is built on reputation alone.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
I knew that was coming
Implicit point – if we only had ZBo . . .
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
True, but we didn't know BG would get hurt
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
ZBO is a Stud!
Should of kept ZBO, what did we get for him? oh ya CSmith and Bassy and both are terrible and look at the Funk ahead of us because of ZBO.
Bad GM, Bad Coach and we will never win with MDsr.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
To be fair...
ZBos contract is beastly and Clips want cap room next year.
What good is Cap Room if we have a Sorry Coach that no one wants to play for,
none of these so called Super Stars are going to come to the LAC if MDsr. is here, No One.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Is it that much more beastly than Camby or BD? Not really, but its 1 more year than Camby, but a lot fewer than BD. Anyway, I’m not sure why the Clippers couldn’t have Randolph now and cap space later. Surely, Randolph could have been moved after this season, seeing as how it is was rather easy to move him after last season.
Besides, if you guys want to talk about playoffs, I was certain the Clips would be a playoff team this year with Randolph. Oh well, I guess now the Clips won’t make the playoffs and and most likely won’t get Lebron. It’s a win/win!
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
So to you us(Clippers) losing and not getting LBJ are Good things?
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Sarcasm my man.
Sorry, I know sarcasm doesn’t always translate on the internet. My bad.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
True, I agree, with ZBo the Clips would have been a playoff lock.
However I do remember how happy I was to unload his contract and pick up “great” (yikes) backups in Telfair and CSmith.
Great Back-up's in the D-League maybe.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Come on bro
You know I’ve never been afraid to bash Camby, even if Z-Bo isn’t the implicit point :) Actually, I tend to recoil from that kind of analysis. Either Camby can play defense of he can’t, and we can debate that, but I just disregard the accolades he acheived, in prior seasons no less. Talking about the number of all-star apperances X player has when those things are just popularity contests.
BTW, have you seen what ZBo has been doing lately?
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:06 AM PST up reply actions
Teasing
And yes ZBo has been killing it. Of coruse he’s got two improving scoring wings and a good center to help. An up and coming team I think.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Yup, his ability to play well with Gasol kind of kills the idea that Randolph couldn’t play with Kaman…
I still think that was MDsr’s plan. Dunleavy was not going to move Randolph until he won the draft lotter. Kaman would have been dealt. He though Kaman and Randolph couldn’t play together (as evidenced by his decision to not play them on the floor together last year) so one of them was gone. Obviously, drafting the star PF made the decision for MDsr. Randolph was gone.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
BG will be a rook and need time,
if we would of kept ZBO we would of been a lot better off and I would rather have Z then Camby. We could of been,
BD
EJ
AT
ZBO
Kaman
as starting five.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Well the whole reason they got rid of him was to make room for Blake. No one could’ve known he’d be out this long. Besides Kaman in playing like a beast if they can just give him some help they’ll start winning.
Yes but MDsr. was saying that BG will play the 3 when he comes back,
just think, man just think if we had this line up
BD
EJ
BG
ZBO
Kaman
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
NOt sure about him playing the 3, we already have a logjam there with Al and Butler I’d rather have him taking Craig Smith’s minutes so he can just have the ball roll out of bounds off his knee every time in practice instead of the game.
Keep the same starting lineup, and have Blake off the bench. U could definately rotate BG to the 3 when a team has a big lineup like the Lakers, but most of the time he’s going to be able to out quick most 4’s or for those shooting ones like Rashard Lewis he can out muscle them down low.
If doing what you said means we will get wins then MDsr. will do the opposite.
MDsr is the one that said he wants BG at the 3 not me.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
yeah, zbo is killing it
and we’d be a lot better this season, but i’d rather have the cap space for the future.
by baron davis' beard on Dec 23, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Think about keeping Z-Bo and not making the following trades
Our bench would look like
?
?
?
Z-Bo
Camby
Would of been interesting to see where it would of got us.
wait it would be
Ricky D, Mardy Z-Bo and Camby
And they would be better then what we have now.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
What was our record again with Zbo last year?
Oh thats right, not very good. The trade was made in mind to remove redundancy in our lineup. The thought at the time was BG needed PT and we already had Kaman and Camby. Obviously the BG injury wasn’t foreseen but we had a opportunity to move a big contract (not that easy to do) and had to make a move. I think our bench situation is kind of similar to the Lakers earlier in the year when Gasol was out. When they moved Odom into the starting lineup, all of a sudden the 2nd unit was very weak. We’re facing a similar situation where our starters are playing pretty well but our bench players are either not getting enough minutes or not playing well enough to justify any more minutes (or even the few they are already getting).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
Zbo,Griffin,Camby or Kaman
All pretty good players and no victories. The one common bad
here is coaching. Same offense day in and day out with no
victories. If the clippers lose the rest of their december games,
Dunleavy should be out the door. Good players underacheiving
is on him period.
I hope DTS is waiting at the airport when the team gets back from PHX with MDsr. Pink Slip and a 15 year IOU.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
I doubt it
we sucked this year for sure but not anymore than we have the past two years. Until BG gets back I think Dunleavy is going to get a free pass.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
So who should be the coach?
I’d say Lucas would do a decent job. He never really did much as a head coach over the years, I think he won some games with the Spurs in the 90’s but I think the players respect him and it’d be hard to do worse than we’ve got now.
Camby is a good "off ball" defender
He can come over and clean up mistakes by blocking shots, but one on one he’s never been that great, especially with teams like Houston who have bigs who can shoot. He didn’t stay home on the shooter at all last night, and then when they switched him to Landry he was left in the dust. He’s a good player, but if they can get something for him now I’d say pull the trigger on that. He’s maybe got a year or two left in him.
I completely agree
And the problem is that it’s not just Houston who has bigs who can shoot. It seems like SP mentions it in at least 1 game preview a week. That X team has a stretch 4 and Camby will have a problem stopping it. And what do you know, he doesn’t stop it! Of all the things we expect from Griffin, this is the one area where I think we will see the most immediate impact.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Wait until closer to the deadline
We need him to stay competitive until BG comes back, we can also get more for him from teams that have to win now (Celtics, Spurs, Cavs, Suns, Nuggets). I like Camby and think he’s done well (great pickup for essentially just cap space) for us but if we can pick up some valuable assets like draft picks without sacrificing long term cap space then we’d have to consider it.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Camby man
Sick of Camby trying those weak-ass tip shots when he should be grabbing a strong board. He probably could increase his rebound total by 4 or 5 a game if he would grab the ball. He also tends to take quick ill-advised shots after getting a offensive rebound. Drives me crazy!
Offensive efficiency
It was good to see Kaman score again and again right in the teeth of the Rocket’s defense.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I think that misses the forest for the trees
Sure the maiden voyage of the Titanic was nice cruise, but . . .
Who cares what Kaman does if the team lost the game, no one else played well and the team clearly lacks focus? Wait a minute – I guess MDSr would care.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Talk about missing the forest for the trees
It was a joke about Landry’s busted grill…
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Actually
if it was meant to be a joke (big if), it wasn’t funny – sorry
and the “forest for trees” attempted analogy doesn’t work
sorry, no hatred here
Happy Holidays!!
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
No it wasn't funny
I am more from the current Galifinakis-O’Brien awkwardness school of comedy. Us kids today.
Perhaps knock knock jokes are more your speed.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Actually, comments that have substance or at least something interesting are more my speed
Try discussing something insightful instead of lamely trying to bait me
Again, Happy Holidays
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Hatred blinds.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
It's called team basketball
You make the offense spread amngest the team you know what happenwhen Kaman scored and scored again… WE LOST DAMMIT. Spread the offense allow players tobuild a rhythm and get invovled design some plays for Gordon to get the 3 ball rolling for us get Thornton in the paint with some easy buckets early. that is team basketball you know that thing the Rockets did when they beat us held a lead and never gave it up.
Camby was also traded for Doritios
He is a soft man defender letme put it that way and when we face teams that have a banger PF or a outside shooter PF (like 70% of the league now) he will hurt us more than he helps.
I'm not big on Blake having to save us
because I believe we have the talent already but if there was a need Blake would fill that wouldmake us better is he is a finisher. Way to often our bigs over think and try to lay it up a basket when they can finish strong Blake gives us a element that we can attack the rim and play the game physical.
You know what Carl Landry did to us that is what Blake can do for us and more. Physical hustle.
I personally think BG would have manhandled Landry
Although it remains to be proven…considering he hasn’t played a single game.
Landry
Would have put Blake in foul trouble. Seeing all the calls the Rockets were getting.
by Boogymonst3r on Dec 23, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
Can we sign Livingston as a backup PG?
I’m not sure what Bassy is doing, but when I watch him step in…leads diminish or deficits increase.
MDSr needs to do something to bolster the reserves NOW
Or he can ignore everything and focus on Kaman’s “offensive efficiency”
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
If the plan is to go to the playoffs
Yes, the team needs to get better NOW. Completely agree.
If its a rebuilding year….
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
How can we be rebuilding with a $65 M 30 year old PG?
MDSr has chosen not to rebuild. If however he’s changed his mind he should trade BD immediately and stop playing Kaman 45 mins / game.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Baron realy isn't the problem
As of late the only bad game he has had was against the Spurs where he played terrible D and his offense was average. The direction of the team has taken the spotlight Baron has to have a insde smilebecause he is doing everything asked of him. The proof is there that the offense goes to hell when he isn’t in the game and that is sad and beautiful at the same time.
He's not the problem at all
But he’s saying if this year is a lost cause, Baron is only going slow down more and more with him being on the wrong side of 30.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
Right
That’s the rub. If you are going to rebuild, Davis should be moved, and his trade value has actually rebounded a bit.
But you are right, MDsr is trying to put a competitve year together (likely to save his job) so he needs to improve the team before the deficit gets out of hand.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
That's the conundrum...
It’s why the coach and the GM can’t be the same guy.
What’s the point of making the playoffs and going out in the first round anyway? The Clips have repeatedly proved they can’t beat the good teams with this lineup. What’s Blake Griffin worth? A game? Maybe two? And two years from now, where are they with an aging Baron and the salary cap looming?
I could just see it
MDSr on his knees begging DTS to allow him to make some trades. DTS critically asking him why when he allowed him to sign the players he did. MDSr flipping him the bird and walking out rather than responding.
O to be a fly on the wall.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
What is the point?
Because making the playoffs in the West you did something special as a team and most likely were a above .500 or at least close to it to get in. I’d take a first round sweep to know this team was able to come together and show some damn progress to get to the playoffs.
Even if that meant hurting the team's future?
That’s penny-wise and pound foolish.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
how does making te playoffs hurt our future
I thought it would build the confidence for the franchsie and make the Clippers a dessirable place in Free Agency.
Well, just the act of making the playoffs doesnt obviously
but trading peices for more expensive peices which allows the team to make the playoffs (with an early exit) would.
Of course I’m not arguing that making the playoffs is a bad thing. Mortgaging the future (trading the Minny pick, taking on long contracts, etc.) just to squeeze into the playoffs would be a bad thing.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Okay I wasn't aware someone was talking about trading
Hell naw we shouldn’t give up picks. If we fail this season we trade exppiring for picks. Doubt only player that can earn us a pick is Camby.
Trade Baron? No Way... Unless...
…they are just dumping salary because they think they have a legit shot at D-Wade or LBJ this summer (which I doubt). If u just trade him for a pick or some more stiffs (we have a bench full of them already) I think it’s a mistake. BD is playing his best ball since Golden State went on the playoff run a couple years ago. Lets see what the team looks like with Blake healthy and go from there.
Well, ya
That would be the point.
And the point is that you are supposed to trade players when their value is high. Even though I didn’t agree with those who said the Clips should have traded Kaman early this year when he was dominating, at least I understood the desire. Baron and Kaman have trade value now. They didn’t last year. And the core of this team is Griffin and Gordon (20 year olds) so how much sense is there in keeping Baron if he will be on the decline when Griffin and Gordon are hitting their stride? I don’t really have a strong opinion on this, I just see the logic in it.
But ya, I get your point. I don’t think the Clips are getting Wade or Lebron either, so screw it….
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Some veteran leadership doesn't hurt
I think Camby for instance has been a great influence for the young team and Baron is still the heart of the team. Unless we get expiring contracts for Kaman or Davis more likely we would only acquire players with baggage for them (like ZBo last year). A 12-16 team has to look at all options but I don’t think we need to hit the panic button just yet.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
I know you said IF
But I can’t accept the idea this is a rebuilding year this was suppose to be the year we got back to the playoffs and anything less should not be allowed.
I accepted the arguement that last season was a “gel season” but not this time he knew what he got into when he flipped the team again it’s results this season no excuses.
I never viewed this as the year we were supposed to get back to the playoffs. I obviously hoped for it, and yes I feel like I need to keep beating a dead horse, but my expectations changed when the team moved Randolph. Expecting a rookie to produce at Randolph’s level in an unrealistic goal (and frankly too much to even put on Griffin) and then Griffin got hurt anyway. DJ looked like a star in the preseason, and now we know that he’s a borderline NBA player at this point, Butler has been a mess (despite his strong push lately) and Gordon missed time. Even with bounce back years from Camby, Kaman and Davis, the divide is just too wide right now. As Jax says, the bench is a problem and the team just needs more talent right now if it is going to fight for the 8th seed. I just don’t expect too much from Griffin as a rookie and after missing all this time to injury. The bump in productivity has to come from somewhere else.
Look, I want to make the playoffs too, and I’m definitely sick of rebuilding years. But I wouldn’t make an ill-advised trade which hurts the team in the long wrong just to squeeze into the playoffs. If there is a good target there, then great, but I wouldn’t go crazy just because we can’t stomach another “rebuilding” year.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Again
Dunleavy has to learn how to use a bench before he gets a new one. This is the second bench unit in two years if he can’t get it down something is wrong with him. As far as expectation I’d accept just being close to the playoffs Brandon Jennings and Evans are both keeping their team respectable so to have those expectaion of at least having a competent team is not asking to much.
That's the rub
I personally think that this current team would make the playoffs with a better coach.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Livi is almost close to done
But we might as well fail to see why we haven’t went for a scoring player in Von Wafer.
I also believe BG would at the least hold his own
Blakes game is inside force and I don’t see this injury turning him into a shooting PF. His game will be like Landrys with more aggression going to the basket as a finisher dunking the ball. We are missing that get the inside bucket factor with our western confernce version of Bosh and Bargs we have now. We need a physical player to balance it out.
He's also bigger, stronger and faster than Landry
Everything that Landry is, on steroids (not literally)
Agree
I see Landry as his ceiling and that is big from me because I’m a huge fan of Landry.
We're down 2 or 3...
And Dunleavy benches Baron. A minute or to later, Ej takes a seat. What the hell is MDSr. thinking?? For the life of me, I dont’ understand his subbing. When will it end?!
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Dec 23, 2009 9:24 AM PST reply actions
I will never let go of the fact
Dunleavy didn’t call a timeout when the lead got out of hand. While when we eventually scored two freaking baskets in a row Adleman nipped our run in the bud with a timeout to recollect his players. That to me is unforgiveable while being out-coached
Should the starters play the entire game?
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Don't give up the 4th quarter
Don’t play the starters the whole 3rd quarter if you know they won’t be able to go the whole 4th. By all right he is trying t make a comeback in the wrong quarter have the bench play majority of the 3rd so the 4th is for the starters and they are well rested to close the game. If the bench losses the lead are falls behind futher that is a risk you take but you don’t play to win the 3rd then look for a bailout in the 4th that is being “@$$ backwards” (old school term I was taught it’s like when you know your going to put on your socks but you put your shoes on first).
No no you see
They have to play the entire game AND not get overused.
There is a magical way to do this that every other coach knows but only CMDSr doesn’t.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
See my tagline
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Stagger the subs a bit more
You don’t have to take all the scorers out at once. Seems alot of times in the 3rd it is all subs and the only “scorer” is Butler but he can’t get his own shot. Rest Kaman and leave EJ or BD out there. Then when Kaman is playing keep some shooters out there so he can kick out to them for open shots (Novak anyone?) When Blake comes back maybe he can be some what of an inside scoring threat, because when Kaman goes out they have nothing.
Remember - whatever MDSr does is good
You are not permitted to criticize the coach.
MDSr is smarter than you so don’t bother to think for yourself.
That MDSr can’t seem to win is irrelevant – trust him, he’s the messiah leading us to the promised land.
All we can do is poke fun at anyone who dares question anything remotely relating to coaching. Because we are mere lemmings and really don’t understand the game like he does.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
So to MDsr. losing is the promised land, he is SO Smart and such a Great Coach.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
I think
Kaman is really the only “true” offensive option. I love EJ, but he’s built to score in transition, or to hit jumpers when the ball is being passed out of the double team (and Kaman is the only player who warrants a double team.) Thornton’s game is slashing to the basket, when the ball is being passed out of the double team. Baron is a facilitator now. That’s the adjustment he’s made to his game and I’m fine with it. Butler misses way too much to be a scorer. Novak needs to be on the floor with other scorers (like Kaman) and everybody else is pretty much terrible offensively.
because when Kaman goes out they have nothing.
Yup. It’s like 07-08, except there is no Maggette. It sucks doesn’t it…
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
MDSr took Maggette away from us for most of 07-08
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Really?
I thought Corey was hurt, but I don’t really remember him getting buried (I thought that was the year before.)
I just remember vividly that the team was completely inept on the offensive end if Maggette or Kaman was not on the floor. And then Kaman got hurt. And then we did the “right thing” and allowed Cassell to go win a championship instead of like, you know, getting something for him. Ugh.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Your'e right - there are so many bad years I've confused 06-07 with 07-08
They all seem to run together. Sorry
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Are you ok with MDSr's coaching this year?
Do you have any suggestions?
Or are you just going to continue to try to make fun of anyone who voices a criticism?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I'd give him a C this year
He’s had a few good days (not enough for me but still) and certainly the team has done the bare minimum to make us (at least temporarily) put away the pitchfork and torches (for now). The reality is this team only won 19 games last year so there was a lot of work to be done. Aside from injuries to our two youngest (and therefore most likely our most durable) players the rest of the team has been pretty healthy (knock on every piece of wood you see). I kind of accepted that this team isn’t going to make the playoffs this year, though judging by the comments on this thread I’m further along on on the stages of grief than most.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
5 stages of grief
I just brought it up but this bears looking into.
Denial: The Clippers aren’t that bad, its only because EJ and BG have missed so much time
Anger: Why is (list numerous teams ahead of us in the standings) doing so well while we haven’t been .500 all year! Hang Dunleavy! Burn down Staples!
Bargaining: Ok ok, once BG comes back we are good, maybe we can make a trade for Caron Butler or even Corey Maggette. We were almost .500 recently, a few small changes and we are back in it right??
Depression: Maybe I should stop watching the game, after all the outcome is the same. DTS and MDsr suck, I hate them so much. Bartender, another double on the rocks, thanks.
Acceptance: It’s okay, its only basketball, at least I’ll have more free time in April to do other things. The Clippers performance has no bearing on my actual real life situation.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Get out of my head
except for the Maggette comments. How anyone thinks his brand of selfish play is a plus is beyond me.
There’s a reason he’s called “Bad Porn” in GSW.
I don't miss Maggs either
not at his price anyways. For a MLE type deal, perhaps. Was just point how we’d be settling for any deal right now, if nothing else for the sake of the deal itself rather than the players or results we’d get back.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
He was one dimensional
Besides his price tag was too much thank the clippers north for that.
Agreed - nice post cc
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I don't make fun of EVERYONE who voices a criticism
But when there are two polar opposite criticisms appearing in the same comment thread (Dunleavy only thinks about the quarter he is in: The starters are getting too much rest), yeah I think its valid to mock. At least one side is clearly wrong since it is impossible for both to be correct, and its entirely possible that both sides I wrong.
I notice that you never denounce either side, so I take it you find ALL criticism of MDSr to be correct. Again, even when the criticisms are in direct conflict. Other positions your comments have implied are correct lately: Bassy should get more playing time presumably at the expense of Davis1 or Gordon, the Clippers would be better off today with Elton Brand. These are absured positions of course.
What do I think of MDSr’s coaching this year? Its good enough. Just like always.
Based on the roster the Clippers are right where I expected them to be.
I think part of the problem today is folks can’t accept that the Rockets are as good as they are because they are stuck in an old-school mentality that scoring matters most.
The Rockets are better than the current Clippers. It is not surprising that the Clippers would lose a road game to them.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
All I want for Christmas.....
Is to know when BG is suiting up! Let’s see what our bench looks like when the #1 pick in the draft is part of it. I don’t want to dump guys and go for our 837th consecutive “rebuilding year”! (Perhaps I exxagerate. Slightly.)
Disappointed with Craig Smith
If he’s not going to produce on the floor, at least bang knees with people from the other team and make them miss a good part of the season.
Yes there again if we kept ZBO, no Craig Smith to bang knees with BG.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
Please.
I don’t get everyone pining for Zach Randolph. As soon as we drafted Blake (sooner, I’d argue) people were clamoring for Dunleavy to dump Randolph. He managed to do that quickly, and get two decent, role playing bench players. Dunleavy is an abysmal coach, but the moves he made were right. It’s not his fault Blake has missed the entire season. A lot fans here being total hypocrits. A large majority of Clipper nation wanted Z-Bo gone. Hindsight is 20/20, let’s keep a little perspective.
And, again, I’m in no way a CMDSr. supporter!!
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Dec 23, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
As soon as we drafted Blake (sooner, I’d argue) people were clamoring for Dunleavy to dump Randolph.
Not all of us. Check the archives.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
I know, mwhite.
That’s why I said “a large majority”.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Dec 23, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
mwhite likes Zbo almost as much as Zhiv likes Paul Davis
I’m going to get smacked for that one I know it
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I don't miss ZBo at all
It was the right move then and its the right move for the future. Would we be better off seeing ZBo on the court instead of DJ or Craig Smith? Of course but the reality was we had a logjam upfront with Kaman, Camby, ZBO and BG. Now I can accept a argument that we should have traded Kaman or Camby instead but given where they were at the time (Kaman coming off a unproductive and injured year, Camby coming into the last year of his deal) we would have gotten negative assets (bad contracts or low draft picks). I’m still open to trading Camby at the deadline if BG is productive and we’re out of the playoff picture (which looks more likely by the day).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
How was it a log jam?
Griffin/Z-Bo
Kaman/Camby/DJ
If Griffin is the player we think he would beat Z-Bo for the starting spot with no problem and Bo would live with it. Remember the whole Z-Bo is a cancer thing is his off the court problems he hasn’t ever really been a badd locker room guy.
96 minutes for 4 players?
DJ wouldn’t get any PT, he’s not even getting any right now when BG and ZBo aren’t around.
None of these 4 guys would be happy to play less than 24 mpg.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
DJ isn't getting any playing time now
Because he’s not very good.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
Randolph would be making more than anyone on the team...
The next couple years. 16 and 17 mil according to hoopshype.com. Hard to be paying that much for a guy coming off the bench.
It's called playing your cards before your hand is dealt
That may have been our only chance to unload his contract but at the same time everything hould of waited until we had all areas cleared. Espcially knowing the history of this franchise and injuries. If we traded Z-Bo game 1 of the season open and game 2 Griffin went down then that is a different story but from the way things played out it looks like karma and overthinking on the part of Dunleavy.
This is unreal.
You’re telling me you would’ve praised Dunleavy for hanging on to Randolph and bringing, at that point a healthy, Griffin off the bench? No way.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Dec 23, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
We would all be up in arms right now (unless we were 18-10 right now) if BG (healthy available to play) was glued to the bench right now. I know I didn’t buy my 4 season tickets to watch ZBo play, I came to watch the dynamic duo of BG and EJ fly up and down the court.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Another factor is that Randolph finally worked out in the off season for the first time in his career and is in the best shape of his life. Not sure if the Clips knew he was gonna be that when they unloaded him, still I don’t see that as a bad move. He’s never been a “winner” anywhere he’s been. Seems like a good guy, just not really the cornerstone for the money he would be making.
[Randolph has]never been a "winner" anywhere he’s been.
Um, who on the Clippers has been a winner? Camby for goign to the conference finals once?
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
I meant for going to the NBA finals, not conference finals.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
We're not talking about a bunch of Shareef Abdul Rahim's here
I would wager that 95% of the league has never even played in multiple NBA finals, look at the past decade and its a small group of teams that have made multiple final appearances (Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Nets is it I think).
Baron has won a couple of playoff series, Camby has made a finals and his teams have gotten out of the first round before, Kaman even made the semifinals before, a lot of our key players are home grown (AT, DJ, EJ, BG) so they were handicapped out of the womb.
Zbo probably doesn’t deserve a “loser” label, but he certainly isn’t a winner.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah I wasn’t saying that Zbo was a “loser” exactly, but just one of those guys who always seems to play on a bad team. Maybe he turns it around in Memphis but we’ll have to see. With all that off court stuff he had problems with I’m glad he’s not our highest paid player, especially if he would be taking away minutes from BG.
Oh boy, here comes mbwhite - now you've done it
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Ha. I was keeping it cool for a while.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
We don't need Zbo!
This team has the talent to be in the playoff. We are seriously underacheiving
and i just ask santa claus for my xmas gift. I hope he doesn’t let me down.
Talent only gets you so far
This is a team game and our guys aren’t playing well enough to be a playoff team. Our bench is thinner than we’d hope. Now if and when BG comes back that could change things but the question is will we still be close enough to catch the lower seeds?
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
No it won't!
Not if we keep playing theses same offensive sets over and over.
and making bonehead plays
like ATs foul with 1 sec on the shot clock.
by Boogymonst3r on Dec 23, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Yea
can’t blame MDsr for things like that, guys need to be more disciplined, especially towards the end of games. That was a interesting match up though… Battier vs Thornton. Going back to SP’s mention of complete opposites, I think Shane and Al are almost complete opposites.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
Who teaches discipline huh?
Again even Adleman had to bring his players in to get them refocused in the 4th what happend to Dunleavy? lol
That's a tough one to call
Some players are smarter than others, just like some are better shooters or more athletic etc etc. AT has never shown himself to be a high basketball IQ type of player so it wasn’t surprising that he would be the one to commit that type of foul.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
Even the "smart Rockets"
needed to recollect it’s part smarts and part coaching to the adjustments on the floor Adleman never let his team get off track we constanlt brought the game close but Adleman picked his spots and collected his team. THAT IS COACHING!!!!! lol
Of course that is part of coaching
but you are implying that MDsr teaches guys its okay to foul someone that late into the shot clock. I think MDsr is a subpar coach but he’s not that bad. The blame of plays like that has to lie with the individual player on dumb plays like that.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
I don't blame that play on Dunleavy
I blame his skill or lack there of to recollect a team. We had the Rockets down to 1 ,2,4,or 5 point leads and each and every time they would make a push to get it bakc to 11 or more Dunleavy would do nothing to stop the bleeding. Espcially the unforgivable 8-0 run in the 4th I mentioned in another post. I’ll write again they went on a 8-0 when we had it like down to one or two, no timeout we come back and score two freaking baskets and Adleman knows it’s time to reel them in. Do you not see the importantance of that in the big picture.
Your kidding right?
of course I know Adelman outcoached Dunleavy. It’s like Lebron outplaying Steve Novak, its not surprising. I was just pointing out the fallacy of blaming any coach for bonehead plays like the one AT made on that play.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
Never mentioned that play either
But when our team loses focus in general and have those lost momentsin games espcially the 4th or when they complain when they think they don’t get a call instead of getting back that is discipline as a team and yes I blame Dunleavy for that.
That's how this sidebar started
Is Boogymonster pointed out that play. I don’t blame MDsr for that particular play, I’m merely content with the other hundred screwed up plays to criticize him with.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
LOL "it's like Lebron outplaying Steve Novak"
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
We have the better players and worse coaching.
On paper we should be better than the rockets but still
seem to lose twice to them. Kaman leads all centers in
scoring with 19.7. Camby leads the western division in
rebounds and shot blocks (11.7 & 2.2) Gordon is second
in the west behind Kobe with 17.7 pts. Baron is 5th in
assist with 8. So why is our record so bad. It gets to
the point that its sickening.
exactly - constantand inappropriate fouling is a sign of bad coaching
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
He let Gordon sit on the bench behind Cat
So what in the hell is your point. Even thin the point of the post was making sure everything is ready day 1 before you play your hand. If Griffin is ready to go then you trade Z-Bo soetime during the season his trade vaule is based on his contract so he won’t hurt it. the whole point of the damn thing is Z-Bo got traded and the Griffin went down @Ss clowns. lol
You underestimate how hard it is to make trades
We were able to trade a max contract player for a guy (Q Rich) making a lot less. This kind of flexibility isn’t available during the regular season once everyone has spent their cap room.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
It was so hard that it took all of a week
And the Clippers were dealing from a position of weakness, since they did everything short of putting a full page ad in the paper indicating their desire to move Randolph.
He’s untradeable! Untradeable! Except that he wasn’t, and he’s currently making another team in the west better right now.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
I should have added in the middle of the season
matching up contracts is a game in itself. And everyone (league insider included) we’re surprised we were able to make a deal so quickly. If anything I regret that we moved Q since he’s been playing pretty well for the Heat.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
Itwas a need for them since the let Gasol go
They needed a PF who could score to go with Gasol who last leason was just a defensive player. They would of given us time
Would they?
They would have had to spend some money at the very least to get to the minimum of the salary cap. Maybe they trade for Carlos Boozer in the offseason?
And what value are you guys speaking of? Let’s see in the past few years Zbo has been traded for Steve Francis (who the Blazers immediately bought out), Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley (who had to retire due to a heart condition). ZBo actually missed some games for us, got suspended for punching someone and a DUI… all in the span of less than 6 months. What could we have gotten for him? I would have preferred Ben Wallace and send ZBo to the Cavs but I believe they weren’t interested.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
That was it
It’s either you want Z-Bo or you don’t it’s that simple with teams. You know what you get as a player and the contract is the determing factor whether you want it or not that is what I meant in his vaule is in his contract. I’m not even saying trade Z-Bo for a big time player I’d do the trade again but do it the begining of the season when you KNOW Griffin is ready to go so you have something to fall back on. If Griffin gets hurt the same way and we still have Z-Bo Blake has the rest of the season to get into game shape and come off the bench or even in full form during the end of the season to start. Then Next year you have Z-Bo as an expiring contract. Can you say Carmelo? I know it’s unreal but we have a better shot with everyone elses cap gone.
You make no sense
So we should hold onto expensive players as insurance policies up to the last minute? This is like poker, you can only hope to put your chips in when you have the best of it and hope the hand holds up. We went all in at the right time but so far we’ve been outdrawn.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Your acting like Z-Bo wasn't prodcutive
He did help the team start winning. Why not hold onto a player until you know all your new pieces are ready to go. Why do you think we haven’t traded Camby yet Dunleavy is trying not to make the same mistake again waiting until Grifin is ready and then think about what he should do next.
Yes and No
You are asking for an assurance that is impossible because you NEVER know when your players are truly ready go to. BG got hurt on a fluke play, heck he made a awesome dunk and hurt himself.
They are holding onto Camby for numerous reasons, one being BG’s injury but also because we are holding onto the faint hope of a playoff berth and he’s still a productive player. If and when that becomes a joke then I’m sure we will consider trading him. Going to be a interesting time for us at the trade deadline.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
ZBo
He did help us win some games of course there weren’t many. We ended up with the 2nd worst record in the league regardless.
I never said he was a terrible player, he’s in fact a very good offensive player but a terrible defensive player who gets paid like a superstar (not his fault but from a economic sense he’s not a good return on your investment).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
Terrible defensive player is rediculous. But its simplistic to say that so whatever, just keep repeating it.
It’s funny, I don’t hear ball stopper anymore now that he’s playing well with other players who all get their points.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
Also
can’t be a worse man to man defender than Camby. At least Z-Bo could spread the floor.
Camby
Oops posted that on accident. Anyways he’s a solid defender, expecting him to guard a guy like Rashard Lewis goes against his years of inside d so I’m sure its quite foreign to him. He does need to stay at home on shooters better but he also does a great job controlling the defensive glass. Kaman and Camby are the only guys getting rebounds, EJ is a terrible rebounder, Baron is average and neither Butler or Thornton are good rebounders either.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
Arguing with you is pointless
you obviously built up ZBo in your mind where he’s a phenomenal player. Apparently you must be using a different method to track results as obviously you ignore the traditional metrics (PER, Standings, Ast, Blks, Stls totals).
Fine I’ll concede, ZBo is the GOAT time. He makes Jordan look like rookie, Shaq is a fattie who has never won anything and Olajuwon is the worst center ever.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
I ignore PER? Why don’t you go and look up the PER leaders in the NBA and then get back to me.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
19.6 last year with the Clips
Is that suppose to be great? Like I said its pretty good (and PER doesn’t even take into defense) but nowhere near a Tim Duncan or KG in their primes.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Are you under the impression I think Randolph is as good as Duncan in his prime? I certainly do not. I do think Randolph is an elite PF who would be the best scoring option if he was on the Clippers right now.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
what are you typing?
No one is holidng him to a standord maybe you think I wanted him to stay I I wantedwas to keep him until we knew Blake was ready to go game one of the season. I know Blake got hur in a freak accident even though Blake was injured by Smith and reinjured in the game in which I don’t know why he played until he was fully healed. It is about keepingZ-Bo as an insurance piece. whatever you do after that is fine by me you can trade him keep him touch his butt hoele whatever you want but make sure Blake is good to go or we are screwed.
The Contract is the main issue
If he was making 5 mil a year I’d say yeah keep him around until Blake is good to go, but he’s making 16 and 17 mil the next 2 years. I think they were lucky to unload him when they did.
Not even that low
If he was making Camby or Kaman money then yea he’s worth that. He was getting paid the same as KG, TD, etc etc.
I don’t consider him elite… elite would have to be at least top 5 right? I mean elite has to be used in context of the top 5% at minimum right?
Off the top of my head I would prefer KG, TD, Gasol, Boozer, Bosh without question over him. Probably Amare, some guys like Josh Smith, Al Horford etc enter the picture.
Elite? Now I know you can’t be serious.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
Reality is
you can’t just move a lot of the highly paid players that easily. Matching up the contracts is tough and then you have to match up value to boot. That’s a big reason why he’s been getting shipped around of late for expiring deals.
The point has always been ZBo is overpaid (and possibly a bad influence) for his production. I never said he was a worthless player but he also isn’t the kind of player you build around.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
I still fail to see the point in the “Randolph was trading for X” stuff. He was traded to the Clips because the Knicks felt like tanking for 2 years to get Lebron. He was trading from the Clips, because the Clips thought they had a star in Griffin, and because they wanted to make a run at free agents next year. You make it sound like the dude is Eddy Curry. The only legit move was from Portland, which is where his bad rep stems from. Parting from Portland was probably best for both parties, but all the trades since then don’t show that he was a bad player or a problem. He performed in both NY and LA. The Knicks moved him because they couldn’t move Curry and LAC moved him because they hit the lotto.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
The market dictates the value
if he had a big market then he would have gone for more. He didn’t do anything in LA to improve his value, his stats were about the same and he got into a suspension and off-court trouble as well during his stay here. Other teams know how much he’s worth as well and apparently all ZBo is worth is for cap space. We weren’t going to get an upgrade of him and we needed to free up PT for BG. He had the least cap friendly contract, was the non-center and the team probably didn’t want to risk having him around to influence BG to begin with (I know thats why they traded him in Portland, to keep him away from Oden).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Bad influence on BG
again Z-Bo has never been a negative impact in the locker room, again no one gives a damn what we got for Z-Bo it is the fact we traded Z-Bo before knowing Griffin could would play. Dunleavy loves to start rookies off the bench anyway so waiting until things are clear isn’t a far out idea.
That's contrary to what I've heard
which is that hes’ an *&^
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I kept hearing about how great of a person BG is, so you’re really worried that Randolph will be a bad influence on him? What will he do, peer pressure him to do drugs?
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
They said the same things about Oden
yet the Blazers sought to get rid of him to avoid corrupting their young guys (Roy and Aldridge included).
Hey we’re just on a forum with no financial stake involved, the Blazers literally paid $20mil to get rid of the guy, that has to count for something no?
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
No its not
Because unlike others I don’t think Pritchard is a genius, I think Portland has accomplished exactly nothing since Randolph has been moved and choosing Aldridge over Randolph was stupid because Aldridge got completely boned in the series against Houston and will continue to in the playoffs. Randolph would have abused Scola last year and Portland would have advanced.
Cue the Blazer fan to lecture us about how great the Blazers are….
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
Nothing?
They won 50+ games last year and should make the playoffs again. They were able to trade for Roy and Aldridge (they could have easily ended up with Tyrus Thomas and Randy Foye). The Oden pick hasn’t worked out so far but almost everyone would have picked Oden over Durant at the time.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Okay, and by the “winner” standard we are using above, we discuss winning in the playoffs, right? Whatever. While I really like Roy, I can’t stand Aldridge’s game and I think Randolph is a better player.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe he is
They made the move when Aldridge was just a kid so who knows how Aldridge would turn out. The Blazers had seen enough of ZBo to know they didn’t want him around, that much is apparent.
A winner can both, you can’t be a playoff failure unless you make it to the playoffs right? You do realize you are a fan of the Los Angeles Clippers right? The Lakers have won as many championships this decade than we have made playoffs in the 25 years we’ve been in LA.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but they just gave him the (what I believe is) a bad contract this offseason. That means they are still bullish on him, and I disagree on that point.
I actually don’t buy into the winner argument much. A player is either good or bad, and I’m happy to debate those merits. Whether they have a winner’s “mentality” or whatever is not something I like debating.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe a little bit
But 5year/65 mill is probably the going rate for him. I think he’s closer to a 10-11mill team but he got the contract at the right time from a team that knew they would be over the max anyways so they needed to retain their best players.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
What happen to EG then?
MG EG became a Eastside Clippers Blood after being around Z-Bo.
We must remember
The “P” to the side of mwhite’s posts (is that an avatar?) is Portland State. Mwhite is from Portland. He’s likely a long time Blazers fan and fell in love with Zbo when there. I used to like Bonzi, wonder if he likes him too.
Anyway, I wonder what mwhite has to say about MDSr’s coaching back in the Blazer days.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Nope. It’s the University of Portland, not Portland State. Not a longtime Portland resident (or Blazer fan), was only up there for 4 years of college. Grew up in Southern Cal and live here now. But yes, I did enjoy Zbo’s game when I lived up there and I still like his game.
Never much of a Bonzi fan, but I did like Sheed a lot.
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
Loved Sheed too
Sorry – of course U Portland. Whatever the school was that killed the Bruins earlier this year.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Crowded...
Crowded but fun.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 23, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions
Man, how many posts are there defending Dunleavy? Way too many to count.
Doesn’t 7 years of dismal lowered expectations and results count for anything? Here’s hoping DTS gives the faithful a Holiday gift – a new coach.
Wishful thinking
won’t happen until the all-star break if ever, the Clips are obviously buying the “I don’t lose with my players” excuse. No one is defending him (aside from the bonehead plays by players being his fault), but we also can’t blame him for everything.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
No we can't blame him for everything, but he did put this team together so either
it’s the coach’s fault or the GM.’s. Totally agree though – it is wishful thinking.
Woo
Best news I heard all week. Merry Christmas to us!
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Good news
But it’s still a ways off. How many games over that stretch?
If the scan is clear, then it’s just a matter of getting back into the game. Would be nice if it was closer to two weeks, rather than three, but whatever it takes.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 23, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
A lot of things would be nicer
such as not being injured in the first place, a Pau Gasol falling into our laps a la the Lakers etc etc. I’ll take what we can get and some decent news being much better than the horrible news we’ve grown accustomed to getting.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
Jan 15
any chances it could be sooner?
Can we send BG to visit Landry’s doctor, may be.
by Pats fan in CA on Dec 23, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
3 weeks
looking at our schdule we need t at least win the here and there pocket games to have a respectable season with Blake.
I quit with the arguments
Lets just focus on Griffin
Tough Game
Another brutal defeat. Lots of squibs and hits above. It’s strange that the Clips seem to have a lot of superior talent, and yet they can’t make it work. There seem to be certain things that they have a whole lot of trouble defending, while at the same time they’re not able to exploit their strengths. But as SP says, it seems like it’s always something.
Dominant Kaman. Really frustrating for Kaman to be making so many great plays, and then to see him miss a couple of easy ones, get hacked and get no call on others, and then he ends up not even getting to 30 points. Don’t even know how it happens.
I did have a lot of problems with the officiating in this one. Can’t dwell on that, however. Really hated to see the mini-runs that put Houston ahead, too, so that the Clips were always trying to come from behind. Craig Smith seems especially ineffective lately—what happened to that guy?
Baron Davis was playing great. He seemed like he was going to will the team to victory, but then, as MDSr puts it, he had “overplayed his guys.” Baron (and Gordon) goes out, Kaman stops getting the ball or calls, the Rockets get their two-digit lead again, and the Clips go down once more.
Camby’s defense was troubling, and Kaman’s wasn’t much better. Camby does so many good things, but just a few more step outs and stops would go a very long way.
It still seems like the Clips are eventually going to get it together. They weren’t expected to win the Houston game, although they should have stepped up and gotten it. The expectation was that the Clips would win the first three, and the loss to the Knicks is the one that hurts the most.
Maybe the good news about Griffin will help the Clips turn the corner. They need to win some games, even with the tougher schedule.
"They weren't expected to win the Houston game"
Only because Houston, with an inferior roster, has a far better coach and GM.
Zhiv is a great rationalizer. Rationalization is like morphine. Taking morphine feels good, but you never get anywhere when you take it.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
+1000
I think the common thought was we would lose to the Rockets because of Adleman and their hustle.
I didn't expect to win
on the road on the 2nd game of a back to back against a team well over .500. I’m actually not that disappointed about last night, they didn’t give up or fold as bad as usual, they lost to a better team, plain and simple.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Come on
They played a game in Houston following a game in San Antonio. I think that these multi millionaires are ok playing two days in a row in such locals.
If you want to understand why the Rockets are over .500 and we are far under .500 and not going anywhere, read Arnovitz’s excellent description of last night’s game over at Clipperblog. Rick Adelman has installed a great system in Houston using his players very well. We actually have better talent but they are not utilized correctly.
What’s funny is that this team would be a playoff team with a good coach, BG or no BG.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
SADLY that is propbably what the team thinks too
We won’t progress and until the state of mind changes
Except Houston doesn't have an inferior roster
It only looks inferior if you don’t know anything about basketball.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Yet Dunleavy screams mercy when our team misses a player
This team is missing Yao one of if not the best center in the league and has aAll-star playing on prospect mintues. All this while having a healthy Clippers team against a Rockets unit who has Scola with a injured eye, Landry with missing teeth, and no Budinger. LMAO Yeah and the people whpo back Dunleavy don’t know a damn thing about basketball either.
Don't worry - this guy is basically a troll
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I'm sorry you're in such poor spirits around the holidays - it does make sense though
Let me know if you need somewhere to go to help cheer you up or at least to help you sober up. Judging by your comments you are clearly smoking something you shouldn’t
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
It's settled then
Party at Jax’s house!
by Michael White on Dec 23, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
All are welcome BYOB
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
BG for rookie of the year
Can we expect Blake to play at a level above Evans and Jennings, currently leaders on the rookie ranking, to win the rookie of the year, we still have nearly 50 games to play this season.
Only care to the extent...
that if he wins ROY then he must have had a half-season to remember. That would mean we would benefit greatly from that greatness. That I do care about.
That said I think he’ll put up near double double stats (14pts, 9rebs) in about 30mpg. I’m really hoping his return just helps our bench (and starters) play a lot better.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 23, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Doubtful
It will take him a while to get back into the swing of things. He will be coming off the bench atleast in the beginning. If he’s fully healed up it’ll probably take about a month or so to work into playing shape. Unless he goes on an absolute tear, like scoring 30ppg I would say not likely. Personally I would be happy getting close to a double double out of him, say 12 and 8 coming off the bench.
Watching the Blazers beat the Spurs I disgusted to be a Clippers fan
That was so hard to watch yet again another team buried in injuries tell no excuses just go out there and believe and win. Nate was strong in the 4th adn did the same as Adleman did to us while Pop countered blows Nate was the better team on the night. It was a great game by both teams. I’m done if anyone still supports Mike Dunleavy Sr. after tonight all I can type is you disgust me I can’t express it any other way.
Can’t even identify the frustration I have after watching that game and watching our team I just don’t know what else to put.
No worries - they know not what they do
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Are we the only team losing to Houston?
@Lakers
Cleveland
@Dallas
OKC
@Utah
How much has changed since Yao Ming went down in the playoffs last year? They’re just a really tough out, for anyone.
not losing to the rockets
the way we play period is horrible.
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