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More on Gordon

In advance of tonight's Rookie Challenge (6 PM, TNT) game it seems appropriate to focus some more on Eric Gordon.  I should probably be posting something about Al Thornton also, but let's face it, it's more fun to talk about Gordon.  In fact, Citizen Zhiv was disappointed that the last paean to EJ was pushed so far down the page, given that he wanted to discuss him some more after the monster 30 point game against the Knicks. 

So here we go.  How about a simple math exercise?

You'll recall that I went over the efficiency stats for the four top rookie guards on Wednesday, showing that Gordon was the most efficient scorer among them by any measure.  All four of these guys are in Phoenix of course, and I assure you that they are the top four candidates for Rookie of the Year right now, regardless of what David Thorpe says. 

That's not to say that Kevin Love or Brook Lopez can't get into the conversation.  But the folks who vote for these awards have proven, time and time again, that scoring is the first consideration, and it tends to be the second, third and fourth consideration as well.  So if you want to know who has a shot at ROY, look at the rookie scoring leaders.  Lopez is seventh among rookies, and Love is twelfth.  I'm not saying it's right, but it is reality.  By the way, as Zhiv pointed out in a FanPost, the injury to Al Jefferson opens the door for Love in Minny, so we'll see what he can do with that opportunity.

So we know that Gordon is a more efficient scorer than his rivals, and we also know that he has a higher per game average than the others since Jan. 1.  That's significant for a couple of reasons.  For one thing, it's a more level playing field.  Gordon started the season as the third string shooting guard in LA.  He played 27 minutes total in the Clippers first five games.  Mayo and Rose were starters from day one, and Westbrook was playing about half of each game from the start of the season.  They're all starters now, and Gordon is the leading scorer among them.  But beyond leveling the playing field, the simple fact is that games in January and February are more telling than games in November.  Teams have been through the league at least once, defenses know what to do against the new guys to take them out of their comfort zones, etc.  In this sense, Gordon has a bit of an advantage over Mayo and Rose - those guys were on the radar sooner, so defenses began keying on them sooner, and you see it in the way their numbers have tapered off.  At any rate, if January is more telling than November, March will be more telling than January, so stay tuned.

But here's the math exercise.  Gordon has risen to fourth in scoring among all rookies, passing guys like Michael Beasley and Lopez along the way.  He's now at 14.7 points per game and climbing, while Westbrook is at 15.  It's clear that EJ is going to catch Westbrook if they continue scoring at their 2009 rates.  So I decided to do a quick regression and figure out when.

For the top four rookie scorers, I looked at their overall scoring average, their average since Jan. 1  2009, and the number of games left.  I assumed they would continue to score the rest of the season the way they have in 2009, a sample size of least 20 games, which seems to be reasonable. 

Here are the results of the analysis:

Rookie Avg. Total
Points
2009
Avg.
2009
Games
Proj.
Avg.
Games
Left
Proj.
Total
Catch
up

Gordon

14.7 779 20.8 22 16.9 29 1382 n/a
Westbrook 15.0 797 17.2 20 15.8 29 1296 5
Rose 17.0 899 16.2 21 16.7 29 1370 26
Mayo 19.3 1006 18.4 20 19.0 30 1558 103

If Gordon continues to average nearly 21 points per game for the remaining 29 games (a pretty big if with the other Clipper scorers getting healthy, but still he did score 30 on Wednesday), he'll raise his average to 16.9 points per game by the end of the season.  At his current scoring average as compared to Westbrook's current average, he'll pass Westbrook and become the third highest scoring rookie in 5 more games.

Catching up to Rose will be tougher - it will take 26 more games, but if their current averages hold, Eric will be the second leading rookie scorer in the final week of the season and end up scoring 12 more points than Rose across the 82 games (remarkably, not one of these rookies has missed a single game so far). 

Catching Mayo is not going to happen, barring a major drop off in OJ's production.  He continues to score well, only slightly off his season average.  It would take EJ most of next season to catch OJ in career scoring if their current averages held.

So as things stand now, it's almost certain that Gordon will be the third leading scorer among rookies by season's end, and a good possibility that he will be second.  This is for a guy who started the season buried on the bench, in one of the strongest rookie classes in years.  Not bad.

Of course, even though Rookie of the Year voting will be heavily influenced by scoring averages, it is not in fact the only consideration.  Team performance will be a factor, as will other statistics.

As Citizen Zhiv pointed out, team performance is a key variable here.  If the Clippers play well down the stretch, and if Gordon is a major part of that improvement, it will help him with voters.  Westbrook probably has the strongest case on team performance at this point, since the Thunder have to some degree exceeded expectations, especially lately.  But all four teams are at or near the bottom of the league, so if one can close hotter than the others, it will make a difference.

Rose will get additional consideration for being a 'true' point guard.  The implication being that he is a pass first player, and that his scoring is to some degree sacrificed for the good of the team.  His supporters will point to his assists and assist to turnover ratio to support his cause for ROY.

And his point guard numbers are solid, but hardly spectacular.  Anyone put into the position of point guard, given the role of distributor, is going to get a certain number of assists.  Rose's 6.4 assists per game rank him 15th in the league, basically in the middle of the pack for starting point guards.  His assists per 48 minutes rank him 22nd, or lower third among the starters.  And his assist-to-turnover ratio of 2.52 is 24th in the league.  Sure, he's first among rookies in all these categories, but the raw numbers are not in and of themselves awe-inspiring.

To help put this is some perspective, realize that Derrick Rose , the number 1 overall draft pick, is averaging 8.2 assists per 48 minutes, with an assist-to-tunover ratio of 2.52.  Fred Jones, who was out of the league at the beginning of the season and who has never played point guard before this season, is averaging 8.1 assists per 48 minutes with an assist to turnover ratio of 2.68.

I don't think that the Rookie Challenge itself is going to make a difference in the Rookie of the Year race.  It certainly shouldn't.  All of these guys are well-suited to this environment - they can all make the spectacular play.  Westbrook may be the most explosive.  Mayo and Gordon are the preternatural scorers.  Rose will have the ball in his hands.  So they all have a chance to show their stuff.  I assume they'll get roughly equivalent minutes, at least until the end when they may go with whoever has the hot hand.  It may help to raise Gordon's profile on the national level, but hopefully no one is going to put to much stock in one exhibition.  I think Gordon's performance in the real games is enough to get him noticed.

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Best Clipper Unit?

How about Collins, Gordon, Novak, Zach, and Camby?

Collins can take it to the hole as well as Baron without taking as many bad shots while playing better D and distributing the ball. With Novak’s shooting ability, how can he not be in there with his three point potential to spread the floor? There is major offensive efficiency with his three-point shooting ability. Camby over Kaman, do I really have to justify that decision? I will anyway: better D, better rebounding, better passing, fewer turnovers, better leadership….

This line up features the trio that ClipperSteve just wrote about (Novak, Gordon, & Zach) while putting two smart and hard-nosed basketball players alongside them.

We would also have one of the best benches in the NBA (Baron, Thornton and Kaman). Is there any way to keep these guys happy while not starting?

by Jerdog on Feb 13, 2009 3:22 PM PST reply actions  

Eric Gordon is quickly becoming my favorite player.

My lack of any real social life will keep me on the couch on a Friday night. Luckily, I’ll be watching the Rookie Challenge, which is shaping up to be a big event for Clipper fans. If anything, it at least points to a much better future in Clipperland.

I most definitely agree with CS’ previous post about Gordon in which he outlined how complete he was offensively in comparing him to Mayo’s shooting, Westbrook’s driving and Rose’s playmaking. This kid may not be the best at any of those, but he is in extremely close seconds in all three categories. That’s something that those other guys can’t hold a candle to.

I see good things to come in Eric Gordon’s future. I heard on the radio after the Bobcats’ game that the Clippers had not had al All-Star starter since coming to Los Angeles. I don’t want to get ahead of myself, but Eric Gordon definitely has the potential to do just that (I’m knocking on wood at this very moment). Great pick for the Clips.

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years." -Mark Twain

by WestsideBrandon on Feb 13, 2009 4:38 PM PST reply actions  

What about a Game Thread about

the NBA Allstar Celebrity game??? Who doesn’t want to see one of the backstreet boys vs. a N’sync Member? How Duane Martin D-ing up Bill Bellamy?

by Qlippers on Feb 13, 2009 5:09 PM PST reply actions  

game thread

we should have a game thread on the rookie challenge game! or at least can people post up their impressions of our clippers in the game? unfortunately, i have plans and won’t be watching the game.

by teejnut on Feb 13, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

God

name introductions are terrible…
“Al Thornton!!! yea….”

by highriser on Feb 13, 2009 6:09 PM PST reply actions  

halftime of the rookie game

gordon 2nd in scoring on the rookie 1 point behind Fernandez with a good line so far

thornton is also impressive and 2nd in points behind durant…

by cantthinkofagoodname on Feb 13, 2009 7:09 PM PST reply actions  

yeah and i havent seen gordon in like the last 13minutes… kinda stupid of wade? hes the coach right? well yeah

by Final692 on Feb 13, 2009 7:10 PM PST up reply actions  

EJ passing the ball around during the rook/soph game

by shoothoop on Feb 13, 2009 7:29 PM PST reply actions  

beasley

is a ballhog, and I don’t think it’s fair that dwade is coaching. He’s probably trying to get him the mvp.

by k0d4 on Feb 13, 2009 7:32 PM PST reply actions  

nice EJ drawing the foul

by shoothoop on Feb 13, 2009 7:37 PM PST reply actions  

omg

Beasley’s ballhogging is so obvious too. Everytime he touches the ball he puts it up to the rim. At least Durant is taking good shots and hitting most of them. Even our boy Al Thornton had a couple of nice passes.

by k0d4 on Feb 13, 2009 7:49 PM PST reply actions  

yeah and look at gordon’s stats? 16 points i think and on 10minutes… 10 minutes man

by Final692 on Feb 13, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

CLEARLY most efficient

by Final692 on Feb 13, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

its weird

I noticed that too but it has been more than 10 I think… it just hasn’t updated on the boxscore…

by cantthinkofagoodname on Feb 13, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

wow

beasley goes out for a mere 1 minute, comes back in, and takes another bad shot. ridiculous.

by k0d4 on Feb 13, 2009 7:56 PM PST reply actions  

its funny

how the broadcasters don’t talk that much about gordon and yet the sophomores are all over him like a fat kid on a cupcake…

by cantthinkofagoodname on Feb 13, 2009 7:59 PM PST reply actions  

beasley makes a shot

and every blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and again…

by cantthinkofagoodname on Feb 13, 2009 8:01 PM PST reply actions  

damn man

you see beasley screaming for the ball ?

by k0d4 on Feb 13, 2009 8:04 PM PST reply actions  

down 5

I’d like to place a wager that it’s gonna be a play for beasley. lol

by cantthinkofagoodname on Feb 13, 2009 8:09 PM PST reply actions  

durant

was w/o a doubt the mvp, but the lvp, if there was one, goes to beasley.

by k0d4 on Feb 13, 2009 8:12 PM PST reply actions  

when it's all said and done

he didn’t finish with a bad line… 22 shots for 29 points… but EG had 19 on 8 attempts…

by cantthinkofagoodname on Feb 13, 2009 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Gordon was great

18 points 6-8 shooting 3-4 3 point shooting. Those are some incredible numbers considering he wasn’t getting the ball much because of ball hogs like Beasly. The rooks would have won if it weren’t for a historic effort by Durant. And Thornton did pretty good too 5-7 shooting 10 points.

by bestclipfan on Feb 13, 2009 10:20 PM PST reply actions  

Missed it

Just like I said I would. Thought it was tomorrow.
Sounds like Gordon performed well—no mention of Mayo, Rose, or Westbrook here in the thread, with a late nod to Al Thornton. And Beasley sounds like a head case. Time to go to Clipperblog—nice nod to KA in the post on the Gordon-Novak-Randolph set, and CS was kind in his mentions in this post about Gordon.

by citizen zhiv on Feb 13, 2009 10:49 PM PST reply actions  

Nothing escapes a black hole...not even light...!

My god that Beasley kid never even looked to pass the ball…what a douche! (It was almost like watching Maggette all those years…) I guess that’s what we could expect at an allstar game, but I was happy to see that Gordon at least tried to pass the ball to teammates. Glad we got him and not any of the other rookies that ignored a wide open teammate (Gordon) every time down the floor. No comment from broadcasters how many blown layups Westbrook had or how Beasley got all his points by taking bad shot after bad shot… Am I alone in thinking that the Rooks would have won if just a couple of shots taken by EACH of the other rookies were taken by EJ??? 11 of 22? 1 of 5? 5 of 12? 4 of 10? C’mon!!! Too bad it’s really not within Eric’s personality right now…but I would LOVE to see him play with a chip on his shoulder…or better yet, with ANGER about being ignored as a ROY contender. Seems like the best teams have players that want to show what they can do and don’t want to be upstaged by inferior talent (think Kobe, Garnett, James). If the Clips want to be contenders, we could use some of that ‘tude from the EJ’s, AT’s, and DJ’s of the world.

by bystander on Feb 13, 2009 11:40 PM PST reply actions  

Hollinger's grades

Missed the game, sucks to hear that Beasley was being a ballhog. Looks like EJ had a better game then all the other possible ROY candidates as mentioned by ClipperSteve. Here is what Hollinger had to say about EJ and Al.

EJ: A-, Can’t do much better than 19 points on eight shots.
Al: B+, Didn’t think he belonged, but kudos for playing well.

by teejnut on Feb 14, 2009 12:02 AM PST reply actions  

omg

he can actually recognize good play. Too bad he won’t mention it again once they go back to playing for the clips.

by bestclipfan on Feb 14, 2009 7:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I love his

backhanded comment about Al

by Qlippers on Feb 14, 2009 8:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Nary a comment about EJ during the game….he was only the second highest scoring rookie of the team, beside Ballhog Beasley.

by Newton Pham on Feb 14, 2009 11:47 AM PST reply actions  

Media Coverage

Okay, so now we have the game, and the first version I saw was this thread, which suggests that Gordon got off to a quick start, and then Beasley got into a rather lame star mode, and Durant went nuts at the end.

Hard to find the Beasley storyline elsewhere. Our esteemed LAT, which has been out of the Clipper business for awhile now, although you would think that they would be in the All-Star Weekend business, runs the wire story. This talks about Beasley going after Durant, how they’re old buddies. Somehow Durant brought the Sophs back from a 12 point deficit. And Beasley finally started to hit a shot or two, despite gunning, towards the end.

Clipperblog had an early, relatively neutral storyline, covering how Gordon played as well as we are used to seeing him play. And our big Clipmacher KA did a liveblog of the game, and he’s a real blogger/reporter now. The liveblog has a lot of good stuff in it—it can be broken down and analyzed more carefully, as one tries to see how the game unfolds, and Gordon seems to get restricted minutes for a long time, even describing how he’s open and available but guys like Beasley are firing up bricks. But it doesn’t provide a lengthy and detailed storyline for the game. The blogpost does a better job of capturing Gordon’s limited, but extremely solid effort. The blogpost—and the liveblog—do a good job of capturing Thornton’s easygoing, athletic, flowing game too. This is a little more helpful than Hollinger’s hilariously twisted contribution. You didn’t think he belonged, JH? You didn’t think he belonged in the NBA, as you might recall, but somehow he squirmed onto the all-Rookie team and he more than held his own in this game. Thanks for the respect, as always.

The ESPN story goes into Westbrook talking trash to his teammates Durant and Green. This is a fairly satisfying and interesting storyline. Some of the other sources mention how Gordon had the unenviable task of guarding Durant, but Gordon also didn’t play extended minutes after he got a long stretch at the beginning of the game. If Westbrook is so great—and I love RW and his game, stalwart Bruin—let him or Mayo guard Durant and slow him down. I guess it was Fernandez getting torched down the stretch, but it’s hard to tell.

The point is that the storyline of Gordon and his interaction with the other rookies, and the way that he was valued and treated and how he performed in the game, is a little hard to uncover. It seems to be a classic Clipper tale, an improvement, as is Thornton’s appearance here and his own strong showing, over the snub of Thornton last year. And perhaps Gordon played well enough so that no one can dismiss the guy and ignore him. Although it seems like it’s always possible to pass over the Clippers to a certain extent.

No one seems aware of the fact that recognition of Gordon’s efforts is going to be a significant element of what the Clippers are playing for in this last part of the season. That, and good old respect. So let’s see if this team that has won 3 out of 4, with Zbo back and Camby and BD and even, dare we say it, possibly Kaman in a game or two, can get some good wins. And then people will be paying attention to Gordon and seeing how good he is.

by citizen zhiv on Feb 14, 2009 12:48 PM PST reply actions  

Loved the game, disappointed with the coverage.

The color commentators for the game (Kenny the Jet, LeBron and Pau Gasoft) mentioned Eric Gordon a combined TWO TIMES. Kenny and LeBron were completely perplexed when they saw that Gordon was starting over Mayo, but they didn’t even say Gordon’s name. They just couldn’t believe that Mayo was on the bench, with no mention of the guy who’s got three 30 point games and a 40 point game. I’m not saying that he’s necessarily better than Mayo, but you would think that one of the guys would bother to say his name.

The first time his name got mentioned was after he scored the first 7 points for the rookies, and all Kenny could muster up was “I don’t see a whole lot of Gordon because he plays on the Clippers,” or something to that effect. I understand that, but shouldn’t you have a little more insight than that? The broadcasters continued to talk about other subjects when Gordon made a play, but couldn’t stop salivating when Mayo or Westbrook made a play, and those were few and far between.

Gordon’s name got mentioned the second time when he hit a three in the second half, and Kenny did have a little bit more to say about him here. However, he was talking about how Gordon has put up some nice numbers due to the injury to Baron and the trade of Mobley. He talked about how many minutes Gordon has been getting. While these are definitely valid points, it sounded like Hollinger’s completely stupid argument that EJ’s success is due only to the fact that he’s getting playing time. C’mon, this guy can play. Don’t tell me about EJ’s NICE numbers. The dude’s been on a tear in 2009. No appreciation for EJ. Then again, that’s what you get when you’re a Clipper.

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years." -Mark Twain

by WestsideBrandon on Feb 14, 2009 1:05 PM PST reply actions  

Swish should be in this competition...

I just joined the Steve Novak = Amazing group on Facebook…

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2210147394

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Feb 14, 2009 7:00 PM PST reply actions  

Wow...

Alex Acker is my boy. Best player to come out of Pepperdine for years. The Pistons took him with the last pick in the first round several years ago – same draft they took Cheik Samb, IIRC. They liked him a lot, but the team was loaded. He played one season in Detroit, followed by one or two overseas (where he was a teammate of MBFGC at Olympiakos) and then came back to the Pistons this season as they still had his rights.

The Clippers will have to waive someone (figure it’s Hart, since they now have like 27 point guards on the roster) to make room. This is no doubt one of those money making deals for the Clippers – Acker and cash for nothing. Helps Detroit get under the cap, Clippers get a free look at Acker.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 15, 2009 9:16 PM PST reply actions  

Where is this money they are getting from cash consideration

is there any possibility that this money is involved in a master plan to make a run at someone in 2010? Or is it just going to line DTS’s golden lined pockets?

by bestclipfan on Feb 16, 2009 8:14 AM PST reply actions  

It's just money...

It gets a little weird, and my brain is already wired to make the distinction, but there’s money and then there’s salary cap room. For signing free agents, the thing that matters is salary cap room. This is just money. The other team writes a check to the Clippers, and it has no impact on either team’s cap. Up to $3M can change hands on any single transaction. This is a major tool in Kevin Pritchard’s kit up in Portland – Paul Allen has so much money, they have basically purchased picks for several years. The pick that became Rudy Fernandez was bought outright from Phoenix.

Of course, in the final analysis it can have an impact on signing players because the owner may feel financially better or worse off based on that money, and may therefore offer more. But the real problem with signing free agents is first and foremost having the cap room to do it – and this has nothing to do with that.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 16, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

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