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Only Former Clippers Were Traded this Deadline

Despite the incessant rumors about Marcus Camby and Chris Kaman and even Baron Davis, the trade deadline passed Thursday with no moves by the Clippers. 

I'm a little tempted to say "I told you so" since I pointed out that the talk just didn't ring true.  But I've bee wrong so many times, it's more than a little silly to crow about being right once.  It became pretty clear in the last week that Kaman was in a different category than Camby when it was widely reported that Camby was 'untouchable.'  So who know -  maybe they tried and tried to move the guy, and there just weren't any takers.  You never really know what exactly goes on.

Lisa Dillman and Ramona Shelburne both weigh in with their reports on the absence of any news.  Is it my imagination, or is Dillman getting a little more snarky as the season wears on?

Meet the new team, the same as the old team.

And that's a good thing for the Clippers?

A few months as a beat reporter for the Clippers will do that to you. 

Is there any take away from all of this?  Well, I do stand by my analysis of Donald Sterling.  The conventional wisdom in the national press seemed to be that the penny pinching Clippers would be holding a going out of business sale.  But MDsr told anyone who would listen that they weren't in salary dump mode - and he told the Pest that he had plenty of chances to dump salaries.  It's worth noting that the owners hurting the worst right now are the ones with a lot of debt.  DTS isn't a debt kind of guy.  As I've said before, he's a buy and hold guy.  He's made a ton of money on LA real estate during previous downturns by buying properties at the bottom.  This just doesn't strike me as a panic moment for him.  His team sucks - that much is true.  But I suspect he's a lot less worried about the economy than a lot of other owners.  (By the way, this is all pure speculation on my part - I don't really know very much about DTS' holdings.  Anyone smarter than me care to chime in?)

So if they weren't in salary dump mode, then they were looking to make the team better.  It seems they were working the phones, but they just didn't get an offer they liked.  That's cool.  There's no real urgency - there really aren't any contracts that were easier to trade now than they would be in June or even at next year's trade deadline.  So there's no reason to rush into a deal you're lukewarm on. 

And you can certainly cross your fingers and hope that you can get a better deal later.  Both Chris Kaman and Baron Davis have to be pretty close to their trade value floors.  There's no guarantee, but there's a chance (hopefully a better than 50-50 chance) that they'll increase their values at some point.  The irony hear is that Camby was the guy they made untouchable because frankly, he was the guy to trade.  His value is very high, and he's only got one more year on his current contract.  I love Marcus, but he was in pretty high demand, and it seems like some pretty good pieces could have been had for him.  But I'm not sad he's still here.

So no Clippers changed teams, but a who slew of former Clippers did. 

  • It got started a little early for the ex-Clippers when Vladimir Radmanovic was traded to Charlotte for Adam Morrison.
  • Sam Cassell was shipped to Sacramento for nothing and will soon be waived.
  • Chris Wilcox was all over the place.  He went to New Orleans as part of a deal for Tyson Chandler.  Then he went back to Oklahoma City when Chandler failed his physical.  Then he went to New York for Malik Rose (a very interesting trade that may need the salary cap microscope on it). 
  • Tim Thomas went from New York to Chicago for Larry Hughes.
  • And as if that's not enough, Mikki Moore is probably going to be waived in Sacramento. 

Did I miss anybody?  Seems like every trade had a former Clipper in it.

 

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Contra Costa Times

is claiming the Warriors didn’t want BD back for Maggette & Nelson. The skinny

I kind of understand their stance on Camby. There’s definitely some turmoil going in the locker room with the BD situation, and it seems the Clippers need Camby from a leadership perspective more than as a player right now. Not to mention that he is currently one of the most well liked Clippers by the fans. I for one, am hoping we find a way to let him retire a Clipper.

by ghost_ride on Feb 20, 2009 12:40 AM PST reply actions  

Contra Costa times

contrary to what they believe, A lot of Warrior fans would have Baron over Corey anyday.

by Qlippers on Feb 20, 2009 7:44 AM PST up reply actions  

"a team source confirmed"

I betcha if we ask the pest, we can get a Clippers team source to deny that. It doesn’t ring true. There are two reasons to make a trade – get more talent, or get more cap space (i.e. save money). This trade doesn’t really do either. It kind of maybe might possibly do a little of both – but that sounds more like a lose-lose than a win-win. If the downside to Baron is he’s sulking, he’s injury prone, and he’s owed a lot of money for the next 4 seasons, I’m not sure how Corey really addresses those.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

corey played hard every night, maybe it was because he was on a contract year but I still like corey.

by andrewexd on Feb 20, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

BD knowing he was heavily shopped should really help matters

I understand that Camby to SA for Bowen, Oberto and George Hill was close. Glad it fell apart.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Feb 20, 2009 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Seriously

but how much worse could it get? Dunleavy’s definitely expressing frustration w/ BD lately, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. In the last game during half time, he had some pretty strong words when asked about BD, remember?

I don’t really have an answer right now. In the back of my mind, I just think the season needs to end, and that these two have to hash out their differences this off season and start fresh. Get rid of Davis(2) as a partner in crime for BD, and that should help also.

by ghost_ride on Feb 20, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions  

You are right

BD came out and played better in the 2nd half after that ribbing from coach.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Feb 20, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I skipped halftime on the DVR

What did he say?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

He said "some guys need to step up".

The interviewer then asked, “What can you do to get Baron Davis more involved?”

Coach said: “Well, he has the ball in his hands, so he is going to have to get himself involved.”

Clearly, he is the guy that Dunleavy was saying needed to step up.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Feb 20, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Sheesh

"Meet the new team, the same as the old team. And that’s a good thing for the Clippers?

No, you’re right Lisa, the Clippers really should have traded for LeBron and Dwight Howard. It appears as though the Clippers tried to move Baron (the right move but it couldn’t get done) and didn’t try to move Camby (questionable move but as CS says I don’t have having him around.) And again, the “old team” at full strength may well be a good team. A starting 5 next year of Baron Davis (ugh), EJ, Al Thornton, Z-Bo and Chris Kaman— and Marcus Camby and a lottery pick coming off the bench—- really should be competitive. At this point, with the way the team has played with Randolph, I don’t see the point of making a trade just for the sake of making a trade—- especially if Sterling doesn’t need to dump salary.

by Michael White on Feb 20, 2009 6:35 AM PST reply actions  

Millionaire Matchmaker

My wife turned on the television and this show from Bravo popped up. The concept is for an agency “pimp” to hook the millionaires on dates w/ women or men. Guess what, on the opening credits there is Paul Davis using the agency for a date. PAUL DAVIS?! He’s no millionaire, he’s a 2nd rd pick

by Qlippers on Feb 20, 2009 7:57 AM PST reply actions  

Funny

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Always thought Davis(3) was going big...

He’d always squint his eyes like he was the man. Pretty funny.

by ghost_ride on Feb 20, 2009 8:28 AM PST up reply actions  

He was engaged at one point

She sat in our section at Staples.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Feb 20, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions  

dont taxes and whatnot take a huge chunk of that money anyway ?

by andrewexd on Feb 20, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Former Clippers

Is there any other kind?

I would say that everyone on today’s roster will be a “former Clipper” at some point.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Feb 20, 2009 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

It is true that there are a lot of former clippers...

About 20 from last season a lone.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

And, sadly

I see Eric Gordon, Steve Novak and Al Thornton as future “former” Clippers. Talent only stays here when thru Restricted Free Agency.

Given the chance, most guys bolt. It’s too dysfunctional. I don’t see that changing.

The Clippers (like many of the NBA’s lowly franchises) are basically a farm team for the rest of the league.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Feb 20, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Slow down, Mikey

We’ve got a ways to go before we get there—and remember that CS is posting about how the Clips didn’t hold a fire sale and dump salary.

It’s worth looking at the sequence in the proper order.

The first guy is Novak. Novak is great, and he’s going to have a value out on the market. (It would have been nice if he could have hit a few more shots against Phoenix, but whatever, we know what he can do.) Seeing how Novak fits with a healthy Clip roster, playing with Camby-Randolph-Kaman, should be really interesting. The good news is that the trades and injuries got his minutes so that he could show what he can do, and he stepped up. He’s not going to be especially pricey, and let’s not forget the contract that Dunleavy/Sterling gave Tim Thomas.

Thornton comes next, though he’s a couple of years away. And Thornton is not doing himself any favors with his inconsistency. As good and promising as he looked in the 2nd half of the season last year, and as good a basic replacement for Maggette as he’s been, Eric Gordon is actually making him look bad. Gordon is steady, smart, consistent, plays defense, distributes the ball well and makes good decisions, and Thornton is/does none of those things. He has stayed healthy and has gotten good experience, and he might look better if the team is at full strength and starts winning games. But his value has tailed off a little bit. And that puts him into the old school Sterling category of star money for star players. He may ultimately fit well and they might make a deal with him, but it seems to be headed towards the familiar Clipper scenario where they would let somebody else overpay him, and they’ll see where the market goes. Of course I hope that things work out better than that, but the burden is on Thornton to step up a bit, just as much as it is on the Clips and their disfunction.

And Gordon seems to be in his own category. He’s very good news, the best thing that has happened to the team by far this year and in recent memory. He’s very young and is only going to get better and he’s going to start getting calls and gain confidence. You know that Dunleavy (and Sterling) has to be excited about Gordon, as happy with him as he must be disappointed in the results so far from the “star” Baron Davis. It’s also worth comparing Gordon against the productivity and investment return that the Clippers have gotten from the contract that they gave to Kaman. In a 5 year deal you ideally get 400 regular season games and you invest your big money on guys who get you to the playoffs, and who get you more games. You hope to get 100 games a year out of the most highly paid players, right? And how many games have the Clippers gotten out of Kaman in the deal thus far? The numbers are starting to get pretty ugly.

It’s much too early to think that Gordon is destined for a short stay on the Clippers. Above all, he needs to stay healthy first, and he does seem to be strong and durable, even though he was tweaked at Indiana and then in summer league and the first day of training camp. Livingston’s fragility was evident from the start and it was one thing and then another, and then his leg fell off, sadly—a crippling blow to Clipper fortunes.

Gordon seems poised to gain the riches that Livingston was unable to reach.

by citizen zhiv on Feb 20, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

RFA

Keeping Gordon (or even Thornton) is likely not going to be a big problem. They can be resigned as RFA’s and they’ll likel be here for the first 9 years of their NBA careers barring a trade. (Of course the Clippers could choose to not match an offer sheet for one or both, but that becomes the organization’s decision, not the player’s.) Whether they remain mired in the dysfunction, or help the organization rise above it – that’s the real question.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Dillman

She has been a pretty frisky writer from the very beginning. It’s actually kind of refreshing, and generally witty rather than dismissive. The thing that’s missing in a comment like that is the qualifier, representing the team’s perspective, that they believe they can be competitive if they can get everybody healthy.

by citizen zhiv on Feb 20, 2009 11:03 AM PST reply actions  

Orlando got Alston

He’s going to make DHoward even more of a beast.

by Newton Pham on Feb 20, 2009 11:28 AM PST reply actions  

Analyzing Clipperblog

KA has his trade deadline post up, and like a good 4-letter soldier he quotes Chad Ford:

“Negative Spin: The team doesn’t get any bang for its buck. Trading for Zach Randolph was a big mistake. So was giving Baron Davis all that money. Chris Kaman needs a new home. And they refused to trade the player who could have brought back the most in talent or financial savings, Marcus Camby.”

KA says that he “generally agrees” with first three points, but says that’s all the more reason to hold onto Marcus Camby, whose value is only going to go up. It’s a good analysis, as always, and points towards “when the Clippers inevitably retool their roster this upcoming offseason.”

But I’m going to argue the premise, as I’m not sure that I “generally agree” at all with Ford’s first three points. Let’s go one at a time.

1. Trading for Zach Randolph was a big mistake. Because? Yes, Zach Randolph found out that his 50+ father may be dying and he reacted very poorly, choosing not to try to play center and guard Shaq and instead punching an obnoxious guy with a pony tail. And he missed a bunch of games with a bruised knee after another talentless thug, Jake Voskuhl, shoved him to the ground and received no suspension or fine. But when Randolph was healthy and surrounded by a decent, though not full strength lineup, he played very well and the team won more than half their games. He has a lot of skills, he rebounds well, has a sweet shot, he’s not a black hole, and he can hit the 3 on occasion, a new part of his arsenal. And until he found out about his dad, he was something of a model citizen and good teammate.

There was also significant addition by subtraction in this deal. Tim Thomas had steadily killed the Clippers for two years. Nice guy, but an intense weight dragging down the team, especially in his oft-played role as a fill-in starter. With the precarious health of Camby and Kaman, the Clippers badly needed a starter-level 3rd big man. Steve Novak began to see action after TT’s departure, and showed that he is a much better option, a 3 pt specialist who can actually make shots. Thomas potentially could play defense, rebound, and score inside, but he never did any of those things, making Novak a clearly superior player and option. And let’s not forget that the Zbo trade might well have saved Cuttino Mobley’s life, so there’s that.

The Clips of course gave up significant 2010 capspace by making the deal, but we’ve discussed the question of who was going to take their money in the 2010 free agent bonanza, and there are no likely suspects. Randolph is as good as any one they could reasonably get, and he’s playing for them now. He could be a much better defender, yes, but if you need defense with this roster you should be able to play Kaman and Camby and let Randolph come off the bench. So I’m really not sure why this trade is such a “big mistake.” Because Randolph was playing great and Jake Voskuhl pushed him? Because he was playing center against Shaq and lost his temper? Because he played in one game with Kaman and Camby available, when Kaman was hurt and Camby was just beginning to get untracked after his own injuries? I don’t get it. Maybe some one can explain it to me.

2. “So was giving Baron Davis all that money.” This one I have to agree with, for the time being, but I’m still holding onto a shred of hope that things turn around. And if it was a mistake, wasn’t it an honest one? Did a whole lot of people scream and yell at the time, no, what a disaster, Baron Davis is a horrible idea? I don’t think so. It seems to get tougher every game, but I’m hanging onto BD’s statement that his first year in GSW was very painful, but once they had been through it and knew each other and worked things out, they became a very good team. That could still happen, I think. And injuries aren’t decisions, they’re accidents (unless Jake Voskuhl is involved). Since the Clippers have never been healthy this year, it seems like we really can’t judge this signing. We can safely say that BD has been horrible and then some, and he certainly was not only unable to lift the team past injury problems on his own, but his poor, lackluster, and even pathetic play has made a bad situation much worse. Let’s not forget however, that Baron very much seemed to be the perfect fit. Some people were immediately concerned about how he would fit in with Dunleavy, of course, but I think we’re past that now. Regardless of Dunleavy’s style, and playing with a depleted roster, Baron Davis sucks. It’s a problem.

3. “Chris Kaman needs a new home.” Because? Chris Kaman needs to be healthy. Did Kaman 2.0 need a new home last year? No, he needed to be playing with Elton Brand (and Shaun Livingston). Let’s see him play first, and play with Camby and Randolph and Gordon and Thornton and Novak and, yes, Baron Davis, before we decide he needs a new home. Why does he need a new home? So that he can be injured somewhere else?

  

by citizen zhiv on Feb 20, 2009 1:21 PM PST reply actions  

Huge Post Zhiv

You expressed my exact same thoughts here.
1)Seriously, this dumping on Zach Randolph is starting to border on rediculous. It certainly seems obvious to me that the Clippers are a better team when he plays (what with 80+ percent of the teams wins coming with Z-Bo starting.)
2) Yes, I too would have liked to move BD (and by all indications they tried) but Zhiv is correct in pointing out that the Worldwide Leader said nothing to suggest signing BD was a mistake at the time.
3) Like you I am excited to see what Kaman can do with Randolph. You mention correctly that Kaman needed to be playing with Elton Brand, well Z-Bo is just as good (at least on the offensive sie of the equation.) Trading Kaman when his value was so low would not have been smart (unlike with Davis where I would have tried to cut my losses.)

by Michael White on Feb 20, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Zhiv is spot on...

Did you share these insights with Kevin. ‘Generally agree’ seems like a bit of a cop out for him, even though he is less verbose than I.

The least defensible of Ford’s statements (none of them being particularly defensible) is calling Randolph a big mistake. How is trading a guy who was never helpful (Thomas) and a guy who is now retired (Mobley) for a guy averaging 20/10 a mistake? It’s certainly not a mistake now. It COULD prove to be a mistake in 2010-2011, when that money is still on the Clipper books. Or it could be a huge win by then. Calling it mistake now makes no sense. Is he seriously implying the 08-09 Clippers would be better off with Thomas and Mobley?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Hard to respond to Clipperblog/KA

One of the many strengths of our beloved ClipsNation is that it is a good place to discuss and debate the “generally excellent” points KA makes on Clipperblog. Clipperblog usually seems to be a slugfest in the comments are a bit of a mess so I don’t spend time reading the comments, though I always want to read KA’s breakdowns. Maybe things have changed a little with the new format and KA’s new job, I don’t know. But I’ve also never, or rarely, seen him mix it up and get into discussions in the comments—unlike our fearless leader, who runs a relatively sober shop and likes to hang out and chat, as we’re doing right now. So I don’t even know how to get KA to discuss the fine points of his “general agreement.”

I will say that the first hint that he was going south on Zbo came when he did one of his inimitable breakdowns ripping his defense in the first quarter of the game against Phoenix, before Zbo got tossed. I still blame Dunleavy for that: Zbo doesn’t like playing defense (yeah, we get it), but he doesn’t like playing center even more (Dunleavy’s fault for not starting DJordan), and it seems he really didn’t want to play center against Shaq and have to help out on Stoudamire. Play the two big guys, Dunleavy!

But here’s the significant passage from KA, which came before the breakdown of Zbo’s horrible defense:

“At no point during his career has Randolph given off the impression he considers much of anything outside that small space around the low right block. Within the confines of the post area — stretching out toward the perimeter — and the ball in his hands, Randolph is a stinking genius. Get him outside his little fiefdom, and he’s Zach Randolph – an oblivious lug who can’t be bothered defensively, can’t create a shot for any teammate, and detracts from any semblance of his team’s class or collective character. Fortunately, this Clippers team at this moment in the organization’s history has little class or character to lose. Randolph will always be able to carry the scoring load on a bad team, but that’s the extent of his function in the NBA.”

That was the line that made me go, “huh?”: “Randolph will always be able to carry the scoring load on a bad team, but that’s the extent of his function in the NBA.”

The thing is, that’s what many of us thought when the Clips made the trade. But he was kind of a revelation, wasn’t he? Or was it just me? Wasn’t he passing out of the doubleteam, making 3 pointers, rebounding, helping the Clips actually win games?

I’m willing to cut KA all sorts of slack. We’re all experiencing the depressing nightmare of having any interest at all in a truly horrible and cursed basketball team. I think KA was miffed because Zbo was sluffing around on defense and then transformed into Bad ZBo in the space of a few seconds. Suddenly "can’t create a shot for any teammate, and detracts from

by citizen zhiv on Feb 20, 2009 5:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Hate that

Just moseying along in my standard fashion, and pressed “post” by mistake.

Continuing, and concluding:

“…and detracts from any semblance of his team’s class or collective character” seemed to apply all too well.

It’s okay to be angry. It’s okay to be afraid that the Clips traded for Bad ZBo. But you can’t rewrite history, and I think we can look back at how ZBo was more than a “stinking genius… in that small space around the low right block” in the games where he led the Clips to victory. He was doing a lot of good things. Zach’s action was inappropriate, and there’s no excuse for it, but he got the suspension (and docked pay, I assume) and we’ll see if he moves on and how he comes back. Frankly, I don’t need to see him play without Camby and Kaman against Portland.
But I would like to see him play with Camby and Kaman at some point.

The hard part about “able to carry the scoring load on a bad team” is that there’s no way around the truth of it at this point. The question that might be asked, however, is why the Clippers are such a bad team, and would they be so bad with their guys healthy. That’s the beginning of the “general agreement” with Chad Ford discussion.

But like I said, KA is a stinking genius in the small space around precise analysis of breaking down plays. Get him outside his little fiefdom, and he’s Kevin Arnovitz—an obvious lug who can’t be bothered to have a discussion. He will always be able to carry the load of scrutinizing a bad team, but that’s the extent of his function as a blogger of the NBA.

Not really, but is was fun to say that.

by citizen zhiv on Feb 20, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

But like I said, KA is a stinking genius in the small space around precise analysis of breaking down plays. Get him outside his little fiefdom, and he’s Kevin Arnovitz—an obvious lug who can’t be bothered to have a discussion. He will always be able to carry the load of scrutinizing a bad team, but that’s the extent of his function as a blogger of the NBA.

Absolutely hilarious. Well done.

by Michael White on Feb 20, 2009 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

You nailed it, Zhiv

Sad to see KA sell out, but everybody does it eventually. Even the anti-corpratist artist Shepard Fairey couldn’t resist when Saks Fifth Ave. came calling to market his line,( much to the chagrin of his crestfallen followers of which my brother-in-law is one.) But I digress.

ZBo for Thomas/Mobley was a good move for the Clippers on all levels. The team had won two games with the status quo. Is Ford (who is really the biggest idiot at ESPN’s NBA desk, and that is saying something) suggesting that the team should just ride things out with Thomas and Mobley for the next two years until the contracts come off the books? Or does he think their value at the trade deadline would have allowed them to pluck somebody better, like Stoudemire or Carter or something? Them team was in crisis at the time. In fact, shortly after activating Zach, the Clippers had a chance to salvage the season, despite the 2-17 start. It was a good move.

Regarding the Baron signing, I think we are all surprised that he has played like such a dog. He is fat and unmotivated right now. But he has had moments. Aside from his FG% (never a hallmark of his game anyway), he is putting up some nice numbers. I’m not ready to bail on him just yet.

I really can’t say that I have too many problems with the Clippers personnel decisions over the last two years. They have drafted and traded well in that time-span.

And obviously neither Ford and Kevin are up to speed on the Kaman Space Time Continium anomoly. It would really clear things up for them.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Feb 20, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Defending KA

I really don’t think he’s selling out.

Certainly nothing like Shepard Fairey, whose Saks deal was just disgraceful (don’t know what any of this is)—digression.

I think he was miffed about the appearance of Bad Zbo, and lashed out a bit himself in retaliation at first. It’s cool. Aligning himself with Chad Ford in a casual way is just sloppy. I think it was a shortcut to get to his point that there are a lot of good reasons why Marcus Camby is still a Clipper.

That said, he leaves the analysis of the trade, of signing Baron, of the Kaman Zone to all of us.

I heartily appreciate the agreement from the citizens.

by citizen zhiv on Feb 20, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Defending KA 2

I don’t think KA is selling out necessarily. He might genuinely agree with Chad Ford. Actually, I can see KA’s point here with regards to ZBo. Yes we are a much better offensive team with ZBo. Yes we actually have a chance to win with ZBo in the lineup. But ZBo is, as KA claims, a disaster on defense. As a matter of fact, Baron, Ricky, ZBo, Novak, and Al can’t play straight up defense if their lives depended on it. It’s not a coincidence that we’ve been giving up points in the 120-140 range.

As far as Dunleavy’s reputation and preference for defense goes, this must be his worst defensive team of all time. Adding ZBo to the lineup makes us worse defensively, though it does help us alot offensively. But as long as teams score 100+ points on us everynight, an argument can be made that acquiring Zbo doesn’t help the team, especially with the personnel around him.

As far as Baron’s overcompensation goes…I think Baron would be overpaid if he got paid Elgin’s 350k a year. At least, Elgin had the dignity to sleep quietly during our home games and not fling air balls after air balls at the rim and make us choke on our pretzels.

by MichaelCage on Feb 20, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

On a relative scale all professional athletes are overpaid

Most of these guys get paid more annually than the entire staff at your nearby elementary schools.

I’m more confused as to what direction (if any) we’re going. I was against the ZBo trade when it was being discussed because it was a stop gap measure.

Look at Portland, they actually had a plan. Yes, they did suck for a few years but they had a young energetic team that played hard and competed every night. We have a odd mixture of guys in their primes (meaning no more upside) with two talented young players (Al and EJ). In 2 years when these “prime players” are now dragging down our cap space, just how good will we be?

Now we are going to limp on instead of moving Camby when we could have gotten some quality young pieces (I think the Cavs would have given up Hickson, Pavlovic and a 1st rounder for him) and assets.

Maybe some of you are right, our healthy lineup of Baron, EJ, Kaman, Zbo and Al with Camby, 1st Round Lottery Pick, etc would be decent. But thats best case, thats right, our best case scenario is maybe be a very low seed playoff team. I much rather be like the Blazers and return to our youthful approach from earlier this decade when we had talented young guys like Odom, Maggette, Q, D Miles etc galloping down the court. At least we had… what do people call it again??? Oh yea, HOPE.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities. -Christian Nestell Bovee

by ClipperChuck on Feb 20, 2009 11:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you're idealizing Portland a little...

They were a train wreck, one of the biggest in the league, not too long ago. Then they got the two best players in the 2006 draft in exchange for the number 4 pick, some spare parts and lots of cash; everything they’ve touched has turned to gold since then. The Clippers have a better than average shot at the number 4 pick – so if the ‘plan’ is to turn that into the two best players from the next draft, then we’re on course. You have to give the Blazers credit – but the plan seems to have been buy a bunch of draft picks, But they’ve been way over the cap the entire time. So the ‘plan’ such as it was, was to buy a bunch of picks, and draft really, really well. Frankly, you have to have an owner like Paul Allen for step 1, and as far as step 2 goes, I think everyone plans to draft well – they just don’t always succeed. Sure, they’ll be coming into some cap space soon, but it’s easy to clear cap space when every one of your young players pans out because you’re drafting well. Rookie contracts are cheap.

Again – I give them a ton a credit. But the plan wasn’t particularly innovative.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Jailblazers

Yea, they remade their team. They were a bunch of misfits (like us) always getting into trouble. Luck of course played a role, but they were REALLY over the cap for awhile to the point where they have cap space this offseason (would have had alot if Miles didnt come back).

I’m saying we have to make a decision. If this was a game of poker, we have a pair of deuces. Do we go all in and hope to scare off the opposition or do we limp in and hope to catch a set? I would trade places with the Thunder in a heart beat. They have 3 talented young players and only need to add a couple of solid players and they will be set for the next decade. All this after the owners stole the team from a faithful basketball city.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities. -Christian Nestell Bovee

by ClipperChuck on Feb 20, 2009 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't disagree...

I would have loved a good pick for Camby. Who knows if they could have had that. The problem of course is that playoff teams with a chance to win now are the ones who want a guy like Camby – but do we really want Cleveland’s first rounder? 28th in the draft? 28th in the draft is a guaranteed contract for a guy who may not actually be good enough to play in the NBA.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

True

I’m pretty sure we could have gotten Hickson, Pavlovic and a 1st rounder for Camby. Camby was more attractive as he could have been part of two playoff runs for a contender, now in the off-season he’s in the last year of his deal so I imagine we will get less.

Hickson is suppose to be a future stud. He gets a decent amount of playing time for a championship contender on a defensive minded team, that has to say quite alot about his talent. I liken this sort of deal to the one the Pacers made years ago trading Dale Davis for a young Jermaine O’Neal. These are the kind of moves smart teams make, they take advantage of the market and play off the teams just one piece away from winning it all.

If things had heated up with one of those teams, other teams would get involved and drive the price up, if nothing more than to block their rival from getting Camby. Now we have a very good big wasting a productive individual season on a bad team, one who doesn’t seemingly fit into our big picture.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities. -Christian Nestell Bovee

by ClipperChuck on Feb 21, 2009 1:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree that Camby was a high value trade piece now...

As I said, I thought he was a strange one to declare untouchable. Of course, you can say that and then see if the offers get better. But they didn’t make a move, and the market was seemingly high. Oh well.

I don’t really like that Cleveland deal. I mean, sure, if Hickson is Jermaine O’Neal. I don’t happen to think Hickson is Jermaine O’Neal, but time will tell on that.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 21, 2009 1:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Hickson has almost a 15 PER

It’s in limited minutes but he has been a solid rotation player for the Cavs. A number of “experts” are very high on him. At least he’s a young top prospect, Pavlovic is a good bench player with an expiring contract and you can always find value late in the first round if you scout correctly (Rudy Hernandez, Rajon Rondo, Aaron Brooks, Farmar, Lowry have all been late 1st rounders the past couple of seasons).

But the reasoning remains the same, we did nothing except let our assets depreciate.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities. -Christian Nestell Bovee

by ClipperChuck on Feb 21, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Defending KA 3

Kevin, like many of us I suspect, took pride over the years in the fact that the Clippers were generally made of a nice guys. They likely were last in the league in tatoos and corn rows, for what that’s worth. There was nothing particularly gangsta about the Clippers – despite the fact that EB apparently had some skillz on the microphone. I recall conversations along these lines when the team signed Ruben Patterson in 07. Elton (we thought) was a boy scout. Corey was a good family man. Kaman was a wack, but a good wholesome midwestern wack. Then, the entire team turned over in summer 2008, and the Boy Scout turned out not to be. We were more than a little disillusioned, so we tended to overlook the fact most of the new team were not exactly model citizens.

When I read his criticism of Zach, I knew exactly what he was saying. He was saying, I’m tired of this team that lacks character, and I no longer want to apologize for their behavior.

As for the ESPN job, I would love that job. Actually being paid to do what you want to do is not selling out people. It’s succeeding. Giving Chad Ford a pass was likely just a throwaway, and if not, no big deal anyway. He needs to play nice with the other people at his new job.

BTW – brilliant parody Zhiv. That was very, very funny. I may send that to KA in an email.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Feb 20, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Good stuff

It should be oblivious lug, not obvious lug, but never mind.

Slightly curious to know if KA ever engages in discussion. And I really believe that “Defending KA” is the meat of this—he’s a major asset, he’s not a sell-out in any way, and we need to be grateful for the positives in Clipperdom, as we are constantly treading water and trying to stay afloat in a raging sea of negatives.

by citizen zhiv on Feb 21, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

CS, you are certainly worthy of an ESPN position

And I trust you would use the position to correct the record as it relates to the Clippers.

KA had a golden opportunity to stand up against the constant four-letter Clipper ribbing, and instead laid down. In this instance, the ESPN gig has shown him to be either a bad analyst, or a suck up.

BTW, I agree that earning a living to do what you want is succeeding…except in the case of a Shepard Fairey, someone makes his living off of those he claims to hate.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Feb 23, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

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