Miami 119 - Clippers 95
The excuses are being eliminated, but the ugly losses continue to pile up - like for instance 119-95 against the Heat. Baron Davis and Marcus Camby have been back for four games - the rust should be off, right? Ricky Davis has been back for even longer. Zach Randolph would actually have an excuse for being rusty or out of shape - but he was the only Clipper to play well in this game, scoring 21 points in 26 minutes. Yes, Chris Kaman remains out, but there's a difference between missing one key player and missing four key players. The Clippers had a legitimate excuse for most of January. Now they need to perform.
The irony is that the $11M Clippers were more competitive than the well-paid team that lost to the Heat tonight. Or the one that stunk up Washington DC on Saturday against the Wizards, the erstwhile worst team in the NBA. Or the one that lost in LA against a terrible Bulls team. The simple fact is, the Clippers have been horrendously bad in three of the four games since they started to get healthy. Go figure.
Of course, it's hard to explain why Al Thornton would completely disappear once Baron and Camby returned. In the last four games, Al is 17 for 59, including 4 for 17 in this one. Meanwhile, the newly christened NBA Rookie of the Month had an almost equally terrible game, going 3 for 10 - a meaningless late three made it a little more respectable, and kept EJ's streak of double digit games alive. But EJ and AT did nothing tonight to justify their selection for the Rookies versus Sophomores game, that's for sure.
Thornton, Gordon and Baron Davis (3 for 11) combined to shoot 10 for 38. The rest of the team actually shot really well: 25 for 43. But offense was not in fact the culprit in this game. The Clipper defense allowed the Heat to shoot almost 56%, and 9 for 16 from behind the arc. The Heat's effective field goal percentage was 61%. You can't win allowing teams to shoot 61%.
It was bad.
A few other thoughts.
- Ralph and Mike spent some time on the subject, but it's interesting. How does Mario Chalmers make it to the second round? I mean, scouts get the draft wrong all the time. But what can this guy not do? He's got good size, long arms, he's quick, he can shoot, he can penetrate. It's somewhat understandable when a guy like Paul Millsap drops into the second round - he's playing at Lousiana Tech, against second tier competition - teams are going to be leery of his gaudy college numbers. But Mario Chalmers won a National Championship at Kansas and was the MOP of the Final Four. He wasn't exactly under the radar.
- Jason Hart had one of the more interesting box score lines of all time. He came into the game with 21 seconds left in the first quarter, since Baron and EJ both had 2 fouls. The Heat got a a layup from Haslem, after which Brian Skinner decided to inbound the ball to Chris Quinn who made a jumper - Skinner getting an assist. Hart's line - 0 minutes, a +/- of negative 4.
- Speaking of +/-, I'm not a huge believer, but there's a really distinct number in this box score. In a game the Clippers lost by 24, Marcus Camby was +3 in 26 minutes on the floor. Which translates to minus 27 in the 22 minutes when he was off the floor. He may be important.
- Speaking of those 4 Miami points in the final 21 seconds of the first quarter, the Clippers were at their worst closing quarters tonight. They would have been tied instead of down 17 after three if they hadn't given up big runs to finish every quarter.
- That's now two straight games where my choice for Superstar for one game was correct. Michael Beasley scored 18 on 7 for 12 shooting. He's got some serious skills and he's going to be a big time scorer. The bad news is that if I've lost my reverse mojo that allows me to take one player out of every game for the competition, the Clippers may never win again.
There is some good news. As the Clippers descend to the depths of the league, Clips Nation is thriving. The site had over 70,000 page views in January, which was the most ever for any month where they don't sign Baron Davis and lose Elton Brand. In January of 2008, the site had fewer than 30,000 page views. So that's a pretty nice increase in a year - a year in which the Clippers have been brutally bad.
We also had a Clips Nation record on the game thread tonight - about 370 comments during the game. Imagine how much fun it would be if we were watching a game in which the Clippers didn't stink. A man can dream. By the way, I'm still looking for volunteers to host game threads the rest of the week. See the FanPost for details.
So evidently misery does love company.
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42 comments
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Comments
Jason Hart
that was the first thing I saw too when looking at the box score.
Gave me a good chuckle.
by cantthinkofagoodname on Feb 2, 2009 9:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
EG should be the focus of this offense along with Zach Randolph.
by andrewexd on Feb 2, 2009 9:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone notice how the Clips tried to pass the ball to Novak? To me it was pretty obvious. They played defense on him so much that they couldn’t get the ball to him which drained the clock… Then in the end, its Baron or Thornton throwing up a 3 with like 1 second left on the shot clock. Maybe Novak’s hot shooting is good and bad right now… Its great that he can get the shot off and in, but now were just looking for him to bail us out instead of perhaps getting it to Zach and have him kick it out to him. But hey, this is just from my perspective, It’ll take time before Zach and Novak have a sync since this is like their first time playing together for real.
by Final692 on Feb 2, 2009 9:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
In general
MDsr’s offense is a series of different sets designed to get a particular player the ball in a particular position. Unfortunately, his teams tend to get tunnel visioned on that option, and spend way too much time trying to make that first pass even when it’s not there. I’ve been talking about this tendency for years. Whether it’s Brand on the box, or Novak on the wing, if the defense sniffs it out and denies the entry pass, the whole thing breaks down and someone has to go one on one and force a shot against a short shot clock.
That type of offense is not really that unusual in the NBA. But the offenses that work best are based on basic motion principals, and have variations that allow them to take what the defense gives them. Thing the Lakers triangle or Jerry Sloan’s Utah teams. Ball movement, player movement, crisp passing. It’s by design.
The obvious question is, why don’t more teams run continuity-type of offenses? Why is Phil Jackson the only coach to have used the Triangle in the last 20 years – during which time he won 9 titles? (OK, there was one aborted attempt to use it in Dallas in the 90s, I think.) I don’t know the answer.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 2, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
could it be that he had
one guy named Jordan, and two others named ShaqFu and Kobe? I think it has to do with personnel…Once his Laker reign is over, Phil might be heading to Orlando?
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
by Lawler's Law on Feb 2, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I used to think that...
But he can coach. He had a mediocre Lakers team (before Gasol) playing great basketball. Yes, he’s always had either Jordan or Kobe on his side… but he gets them to play well also.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 2, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That begs the question though...
Does a coach really get the best player in the league to play well? I have to disagree. Jordan and Kobe always have played better than their competition. It’s the supporting cast that makes the difference. Back when the Clippers were respectable and would split the season series with the Lakers a couple of years ago, all I can remember is Kobe jacking up shot after shot (getting his), and not utilizing his teammates (he didn’t really have any good ones), even though they ran the triangle. The triangle only works is you have the right role players AND a superstar who can create out of it. Kobe will get his no matter what (same with Jordan). The beauty of the triangle is how it involves all the other players.
by Clip Show on Feb 3, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"he gets them to play well"
When I said “he gets them to play well” I meant his teams. Under Tomjanovich and Hamblen, the team was terrible. Sure, there was a major influx of talent with the Gasol trade, but guys like Walton and Vujacic and Ariza and Farmar all appeared to be borderline NBA talents – late first or second round picks, decidedly mixed results early in their careers. Now those guys all look like the could start for another team. Of course, if they went to another team, most of them would probably look borderline again. (Think Luc Longley.)
And don’t minimize the influence Phil has had a Kobe also.
Maybe the triangle wouldn’t work without a Jordan or a Kobe. The question remains, why doesn’t anyone even try it? In a league where teams try to mimic success (the Bad Boy Pistons won with defense, I know, let’s play defense!), why does no one even try the Triangle?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 3, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya...
I guess I still don’t buy into the whole, Phil Jackson is the greatest coach ever stuff. I agree with you that Phil has gotten other role players to play above their expected ceiling too. The triangle works wonders if you have the right personnel. I think you need 3 things for the triangle to work effectively though. One is a superstar at the guard variety (someone who can bring the ball up every time if need be ala Jordan and Kobe). Two is a center who can shoot the midrange jumper and pass(Longley, Cartwright, Wennington) OR dominate the inside every time (Shaq). And three is a supporting cast that can hit a wide open three (Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Fisher, Vlad Rad etc.). I often wonder how Brad Miller or Vlade would have fared in the triangle, as they seem to fit the mold perfectly for that center position. I think the triangle falls apart when you only have one or two of these pieces, like when Shaq was traded away and the Lakers struggled.
And I don’t mean to minimize Phil’s influence on Kobe. Kobe is a smart guy, and those are the types of players that flourish in the triangle. I mean, Phil picks out books for his players to read during the season…and not just any old book, but ones that he feels will stimulate them mentally and spiritually (at least I think he still does that). Phil has definitely challenged Kobe to get better…and that is a good thing.
by Clip Show on Feb 3, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Be careful throwing that conventional wisdom around
Under Tomjanovich the Lakers were 24-19 and on track to win 45 games. The team quit when he left.
The next season in comes Phil Jackson and with nearly the same team in terms of personnel wins…45 games.
The next season with largely the same personel the Lakers win…42 games.
The NEXT season Gasol replaces Brown and Derek Fisher is added in one of the shadier deals in history and they finally win 57.
Don’t believe the hype.
All glory the players. All blame the players.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Feb 3, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean
All Phil Jackson did was wisely run away when it was clear his breadwinner (Shaq) was leaving town.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Feb 3, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Phil Jacksons record speaks for itself and it’s more of his man management than his x’s and o’s that make him such a legendary figure.
To deal with two of the biggest egos on the same team and to get 3 championships out of them is incredible. That can’t go unnoticed.
And if you don’t rate Phil Jackson, which coaches DO you rate? Just wondering…
by keify34 on Feb 3, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
None
Coaches don’t matter.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Feb 3, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CS - how can we run a search function
John R in the past repeatedly touted MDSr’s record – how do we find those old posts?
by Jax on Feb 3, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The record only proves he is good enough
Man Jax, you sure aren’t very good at exchanging ideas.
“This is not reasonably a debatable issue”
Yup, spoken like someone who is afraid of exchanging ideas. Makes sense.
I mean, there have been plenty of ideas throughout history that were considered not reasonably debatable. And then were wrong all along.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Feb 3, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit is another great example.
50-32
54-28
54-28
64-18
53-29
59-23
Detroit’s records in the Chanucey Billups era. All great. All eerily consistent. Three VERY different coaches.
The one conventional wisdom said was the worst had the 3 best records. Coaches don’t matter.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Feb 3, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're leaving something out...
They were among the best records in the West BEFORE they traded for Gasol. They also had a lot of injuries that 06-07 season – they played mid-December thru the end of the season missing at least one starter.
Very few coaches matter. Phil is one of them. IMHO.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 3, 2009 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Still doesn't explain
Tomjanovich and Jackson getting the exact same results.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Feb 3, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Phil Jackson has won nine rings
This is not reasonably a debatable issue. Before one issues a contrary opinion, one should watch how well his teams execute their offensive and defensive schemes. In addition to the manner in which he manages the players as keify mentioned below.
by Jax on Feb 3, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Number of titles Jordan and Kobe have WITHOUT Phil:
0. Big Fat Zero
Only 7 coaches have won championships in the past 20 years.
Phil, Pop, Rivers, Riley, Larry Brown, Rudy T and Daly.
F-Elton!
by mikey p on Feb 3, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
Jordan, Duncan, Shaq.
That accounts for what…14 of the last 18?
On the other side, Phil Jackson has been a part of two of the more embarrassing Finals performances in history in just the last five years. No to mention the epic collapse against Phoenix in the first round a few years back.
I’m having trouble squaring how awesome that offense is with being held to 33 points in the second half of Game 4 at home on the way to the biggest collapse in NBA Finals history.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Feb 3, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty funny stuff
Phil put them all in positions to win. You could substitute other stars who haven’t won for these, and you would see the same types of emails with the names changed.
by Jax on Feb 3, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Emails?
Wtf are you talking about?
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
by John R on Feb 3, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry - posts
Here’s a funny one from March ‘08 – John R arguing against my premise that EB and Corey wouldn’t re sign if MDSr remained as coach . . .
John R:
You [sic] premise is that EB and Corey will opt out if MDSr isn’t fired. While rediculous [sic] on its face, its also 100% backwards thinking. When a team gets a new coach it takes a couple years to gel. If you bring in a new coach now, you ensure that those two are gone.one year hence. With MDSr the team has some non zero chanve [sic] to be good. Without they don’t.
On second thought, Corey would probably stay even if they won 10 games. He always struck me as a Joe Johnson.
by John R on Mar 4, 2008 6:36 PM PST up actions 0 recs
I guess my rediculous, backwards thinking argument turned out to have some legs.
by Jax on Feb 3, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And here's my March 4 email err post that John R was responding to
If you go back to March 4, 2008, everyone excoriated me for suggesting that EB would walk unless things changed.
My March 4 post (responding to a post about the state of the team):
With all due respect
most of these issues were for the most part known at the beginning of the season. Some of you thought that they could somehow reach the playoffs this year with the personnel they had. I was not one of those people. Please spare me the injuries to Cassell, Mobley, etc. arguments. These are older players who are prone to injury. Davis is not an NBA level player. Need I go on?
Again, you miss the point. It’s not just that the team isn’t playing hard. The personnel is wrong. The plays are wrong. The attitude is wrong. The coach publicly argues with the owner. Management is not professional and seem to do nothing to right the ship. Generally they seem to have no clue about what to do, their short and long term gameplans, or anything else.
You can keep giving all the excuses you want to for MDSr and Company, but I would suggest that Clipper fans start demanding some accountability. Otherwise, we are destined for more of the same. MDSr is very quick to defend himself when slighted, but he has never explained what happened last year for example. He never explained their theories on the players that they sign. His offensive schemes are boring, predictable and sophmoric. He doesn’t let the players just PLAY. And if someone questions him he immediately rips the owner in public.
If nothing is done to rectify this immediately, EB and Corey will WALK.
by Jax on Mar 4, 2008 12:34 PM PST actions 0 recs
by Jax on Feb 3, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That collapse reminded me of the Portland collapse in 1999
by Jax on Feb 3, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2000
"Only dunk and go to the defense." Rudy Fernandez
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 3, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly....
..this is becoming Zach’s team now rather than Baron’s team. And I think its because Dunleavy has set plays that used to be Brand’s and now using it to Zach. So unless Dunleavy and his staff has some set plays to harness Baron’s game (or have Dunleavy leave), this will be the case for the near future.
by clipFanInSD on Feb 2, 2009 10:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Bosch?
Did I hear correctly that Bosch is definitely out of Toronto in 2010? Can we trade Kaman and Thornton for Bosch?
Toronto would get two pretty good players with decent contracts in exchange for someone who is bound to leave soon. With Zach and Bosch, the Clips would have one ot best one-two inside/outside scorers in the league. They can also rebound and put it on the floor. Novak and Gordon can shoot bombs to spread the floor for these two scoring machines, and Baron and Gordon can slash and penetrade. The Clips basketball IQ also goes up after dumping Al and Caveman. Camby can come of the bench for 6th man of the year honors.
The Heat turned things around quickly with Shaq, and the Celtics with KG,
Could the Clips turn this around with someone like Bosch on rent for 1.5 seasons?
Baron, Zach, and Camby aren’t getting any younger, and Gordon and Novak are ready to play.
In Clipperland, tomorrow never comes. Rebuilding never sticks.
by Jerdog on Feb 2, 2009 11:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Two things....
Andrewexd: Completely agree. Those two are dangerous if they’re given the opportunity to get going.
Jerdog: The Bosh idea falls under the same category as the proposed Amar’e trade that was kicking around yesterday – wouldn’t work based on the fact that he’s a 2010 guy. So we’d be getting a guy for one year who will then move on to an elite team thus leaving us in a worse position that we are now.
by keify34 on Feb 2, 2009 11:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think...
I think jerdog is gambling (and it’s a big one) that the team would be suddenly quite competitive with Bosh, such that he would resign in 2010. He wouldn’t leave for an ‘elite’ team if the Clippers were close enough to being one.
Bosh may have the Hollywood bug, like Baron. They were doing the web video challenge earlier this year, he made the All Star video last year. LA is probably the right geography for him. But it’s still a really long shot.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 3, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
I think Jerdog’s trade works for me. You’ve got to pay someone after next year, better Bosh than Thornton. And this IS LA, and Bosh clearly wants to be in this kind of environment. Though, frankly, at this point, if Clips are making a trade, I’d rather seen Baron leaving than Al.
by swamigusto on Feb 3, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Last nights game
I stayed awake in bed trying to take some positives out of last nights debacle. I tried really hard not to be negative and to take every positive that I could find.
So here it is….
It was good to have ZBo back.
by keify34 on Feb 2, 2009 11:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Was thinking the same thing. ZBo back was about the only positive. 21-5-2 in 26 mins w/o a TO.
by teejnut on Feb 3, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
any clue on when Mike Taylor is coming back?
by bestclipfan on Feb 3, 2009 1:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well...
He was injured on Dec. 19. Surgery was Dec. 23. That was 6 weeks ago today. Originally, I think they said at least 6 weeks, but I’ve also heard 7 or 8 weeks bandied about. Given the Clippers rush to get players onto the court this season, I think we can safely assume it’s at least 8 weeks. After the All Star Break would meet that.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 3, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Clippersteve....
Any chance an article or post could go aup about Baron and peoples thoughts on him? All it has to be is a tiny one line piece ‘Baron Davis in a Clippers uniform – should he stay or should he go? WHY?’
I’m confused why people want rid of him already and it’d be interesting to see what everyone says.
by keify34 on Feb 3, 2009 1:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Simple
Because he believes he´s an all-star PG, but he hasn´t led the team to a single win this year.
I´m not saying he has to leave, but if a semi reasonable deal comes aorund, and Dunleavy moves him, I wouldn´t blame him for trading B(no)D.
by edu_argentina on Feb 3, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can do that yourself, of course
We seem to have the discussion regardless of the ostensible subject of the post. I just wrote a ‘Baron has been terrible so far’ post 17 days ago. I don’t think I’m ready for another one quite yet. Trading deadline is a couple weeks away. We’ll have some thoughts on it around then no doubt.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 3, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't get this team.
They play well when they have over $40 million injured, but they can’t seem to put up a fight when they get three marquee players back into the mix. Z-Bo was the only one who played well. I’m particularly annoyed at the fact that in the first half (which was what I watched), none of these veterans looked like they were even trying to get EJ involved. I feel like Gordon has more than deserved to remain an integral part of the offense, but I don’t really even see the veterans talking to him. I don’t mind if they play poorly, but then give it off to someone who isn’t.
I’m really sick of pointing to what’s wrong with this team. Some people say it’s their abysmal offense (with MDsr’s "schemes"), others their defense, and still others say it’s the attitude. Let’s face it. Everything is wrong with this team. I really want to have something to look forward to, but this team doesn’t seem to be it.
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years." -Mark Twain
by WestsideBrandon on Feb 3, 2009 3:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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