The Day After the Day After
by citizen zhiv on Mar 12, 2009 8:32 AM PDT
Email
PrintI had fun yesterday, I don't know about you guys. Part of it is working off the bitterness of a frustrating defeat, just getting in some mental exercise covering the issues, trying to understand the problems and figure out how to move forward. It was a good, active first day of gnawing on the bone. Bill Simmons subjected his tens of thousands of readers to a spirited excursis that had his standard high quota of wry observations, but for me at least it was quite aggravating because it seemed to be an exercise in bad faith. It should have been called "Celtic fan cries "why?!" after Clips collapse against Cleveland."
But then the Great KA weighed in with a rather morose entry on the Clippers. (btw Russell Westbrook, 13 points on 13 shots, 3 rebounds last night; OJ Mayo 18 points on 17 shots, 5 assists; KLove 19/11 beating Mayo's Grizz.) I think the Great KA might be making the same mistake that CS made when he wrote off Dunleavy at what seemed to be the height of the MDsr-Baron wars. Perhaps the primary axiom of Clipper fandom should be: things can always get worse. A personnel problem will be followed by an injury. An injury will set the stage for a personnel conflict. When the waters seem smooth after the tide has turned, DTS might stop by with some wacky behavior.
Perhaps the season right before the Dunleavy era is worth remembering in this context. The outlook seemed bright, although there were bittersweet reflections as the enthusiastic, promising Darius Miles was shipped out to bring in ace PG and LA bon vivant Andre Miller and his sweet Honda ride. Players coach Alvin Gentry had a gentle touch on the tiller, and the great humanitarian FElton Brand was ready to lead the team to glory. This was the first time, I believe, that the Clippers ever had a truly competitive roster, with seemingly solid players at every position along with a quality bench. We all know what happened: from day one, it seems, the constant theme was that guys were unable to "gel" or win games because of the uncertainties of their contract situation. The 06-07 debacle was probably worse as far as promising seasons go, but that final Gentry year was a season-long exercise in lowering expectations and remembering that "the worst is not while yet we can say this is the worst." The hits just keep on coming.
The Great KA was at the game against Cleveland, as was Simmons. It was hard enough to take watching on TV, and being there in a full house had to be so much worse. But let's remember that apparently they both filed their stories after first being at the game, and then watching it a second time on the Tivo--Simmons certainly did, and the Great KA's standard practice is a painstaking breakdown of the tape. That had to be doubly depressing, watching a car wreck all over again in slow motion, and the KA went through it and then in his initial write up he broke it down backwards (hey now, Harold Pinter). My point here is that this seems almost masochistic--the pain must have been an excrutiating pleasure. Let's just keep picking at that wound, let's gnaw on that bone, shall we? Welcome to day two!
So, starting up, I'll note again that this game was against the Cavs and Lebron. The Clippers played great for 3 quarters. It was Kaman's first game back. Camby has fluid in his head. The goal right now is to sort things out at the tailend of a lost season. The Clips did some very good sorting against the Cavs, but it was provisional. The game was quite different from the one they played against the Pacers, although they had the same frustrating result.
The Great KA is still focused on Zbo and Dunleavy's personnel decisions. My humble Clipsnation goal for the day is break down the flaws in Simmons' specious but amusing essay, but he and the Great KA share a deep cynicism about the trade of Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley for Zach Randolph. I like the Randolph trade. I'll leave it at that for the moment, since we've discussed it before.
Here's a surprise: I'm off to go see the shrink. Not a moment too soon.
33 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Zhiv in fine form
Good morning!
I’m not sure I want you to go to the shrink. You seem to be at the top of your blogging game, and CN has benefited greatly. A more well-adjusted Citizen Zhiv might be far less productive for my front page.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
You were right about Zach and Kaman and the low right block
Chris was on the left block when he made his cruch time turnovers.
So not only did Sr. have a rusty, shakey Chris Kaman on the floor down the stretch, he had a rusty, shakey Kaman playing out of position down the stretch.
F-Elton!
the Great KA's first cup...
http://clipperblog.com/2009/03/11/all-shook-down/#comments
I like this line
After Elton Brand’s about-face, Baron Davis is owed a karmic favor, and that should be worth something.
I think he is right…the Bball FSM must be waiting for BD shape up to grant this favor!
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
my mental "teeth" are wearing out from all this gnawing about this loss and the team...
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
If Zhiv needs a shrink
we’re all doomed.
I’m with you on Z-Bo. The trade was a no-brainer for reasons that have already been discussed. The Clippers didn’t lose that game because of Zach (though it was reminiscent of this goodie.
And, yes, Simmons did take great liberties in his article in his aim for humor. Take my favorite line from his piece:
Dunleavy just upped the ante — he just put in ice-cold 3-point specialist Steve Novak, who hasn’t played all half. This is a Dunleavy crunch-time staple: How can I get the coldest guy on my bench involved in the biggest play of the game?
Now, that is hilarious, and attests to Dunleavy’s habit of overthinking everything. Putting in ice-cold rookie Daniel Ewing on the last play of the biggest game in franchise history was bad (and has been debated ad nauseum). And the incessant defensive shuffling and subs are pretty lame. But isn’t it obvious that putting in your 3pt. specialist and best shooter for the last play is a good idea?
So on the one hand, Simmons had a point, but he applied it to the wrong situation. He also had a passage lamenting the fact that Dunleavy wasn’t posting up the guards in this game. Anyone who has watched more than 4 minutes of Clippers basketball knows that Dunleavy is a big believer in posting up his backcourt. So that was not the problem. I think his larger point, then, was that Dunleavy tends to not do the right thing at the right time. Perhaps.
Simmons admits he is on a crusade against Sr., so that must be taken into account. It may cloud his judgement. As for KA, I don’t know. I was glad to read that he got Thorpe to finally do his job and take a real look at Eric Gordon.
F-Elton!
Yes
Zhiv’s prose is excellent. However, the issue at hand is really very, very simple. MDSr is not a good game-day coach or GM. Neither CS nor KA made a “mistake” here, except perhaps for being far too patient. What is it going to take for Zhiv to realize that it is time to move on?
I think that we are being too harsh on Simmons, and that’s because we are fans of the Clippers and we don’t like people attacking the team we love. However, Simmons is perhaps a more objective viewer of the team and coach than many of us, and many of his observations about the coach and players are not specious at all. Others may technically be incorrect, but the overall point is accurate in my view. And he’s funny.
There’s nothing wrong with honest evaluation, harsh though the opinions might be.
On the contrary
I’m glad Simmons is out there talking about the Clippers. It’s a good thing. I agree with him on his larger points, hyperbole and a few inconsistencies aside.
Re: MDSr. We have witnessed his shortcomings. His in-game coaching leaves much to be desired. His grasp and knowledge of basketball is quite good, however. He is a “basketball” guy. I think he is a good teacher of the game. But there is certainly a disconnect with the players. And his offensive style is, in a word. boring. It was painful even during the playoff run. He does not seem to be keeping with the times on that side of the ball.
On defense, I think he gets a lot out of his players. It was a lineup of Kaman, Brand, Radmonovich, Mobley and Cassell that primarily held the Hornets to 16 points in a half a few years back. Not exactly a lineup of defensive juggernauts. HHe values deflections, which makes sense.
His arrival did bring a sense of respectability to the franchise. The Clippers finally had a legit coach. He was able to penetrate the wallet of DTS and change the culture here. But the situation is now regressing.
All in all, I think he has run his course. To quote a certain politician, time for change.
F-Elton!
Moving On
Always happy to hear that citizens are amused.
Jax asks, “What is it going to take for Zhiv to realize that it is time to move on?” I think I have moved on, but there’s still the question of where to go, and there’s the pragmatism issue I mentioned yesterday.
I genuinely believe, very strongly, that Mike Dunleavy should not be the coach of the Clippers next year.
How’s that for moving on?
One of the issues I have with Jax’ approach is that, for some who follows the Clippers carefully, he seems to spend an inordinate amount of time promoting things that aren’t going to happen. Acceptance and commitment. We have to accept certain things. We have to accept that DTS is the owner. Obviously, that’s not an ideal, desirable, preferable reality, but that’s the way things are. Being a Clipper fan is a choice. When you choose to be a Clipper fan, you have to generate a certain tolerance and acceptance for DTS and his unsavory wacky ways.
It’s not necessary, however, to accept Dunleavy as coach and GM. But in accepting DTS, you know that he’s not going to pay Dunleavy to go away. That’s not the way that DTS works. So Dunleavy is a part of the Clipper equation for the time being. There’s no way around that. It would be nice if there was, but there isn’t.
So I’m going with the best case scenario, given where we are. "MDSr is not a good game-day coach or GM, " Jax notes. That leaves out whether he is a good (acceptable) coach, in the non-game-day aspects. I don’t know that BD’s issues with MDSr are more about game-day or non-game-day. (One thing that I do know is that I’m as frustrated with BD as I am with Dunleavy, but that comes later in the argument.)
At any rate, I’m willing, though perhaps not eager just yet, to give up on MDSr as a game-day coach, and as a non-game-day coach as well. When I say “perhaps not eager just yet” I’m leaving some wiggle room to see what happens if Kaman-Camby-Randolph can play together for the rest of the season. There’s a long list of things that I don’t like about MDSr’s coaching. And I think that a new coach could easily do a much better job with the players and game-day and lots of the obvious conflicts with the team.
But Dunleavy as GM is a different issue. That I accept. And I don’t see a choice but to accept it, especially going into the draft and next season.
No?
by citizen zhiv on Mar 12, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Ok - that's sufficient
But i disagree that the amount of time I’ve spent is not on things that will help us move forward. For example, when we began discussing these issues in earnest last year I was the only one on this board who actively advocated teminating Dunleavy and who provided detailed explanations as to why. No one agreed with me. I predicted dire consequences if he was not relieved, and (unfortunately) those consequences have occurred.
Thus, the first order of business has been to convince the nation that what we really need here is new management and a new coach, not merely shuffling the deck chairs / players every year. The nation seems to be agreeing with me now.
I also believe that if the nation rises up and continually protests DTS’ ownership and MDSr’s coaching that eventually they will cave because of the publicity.
We should never succumb to the false inevitability/pragmatism argument. You will never obtain change if you are so easily willing to lie down and take it. No offense, but your position reminds me of someone with battered womens’ syndrome. Yes, Hitler made the trains run on time . . .
As I’ve said, “Idealism is the only true realism.”
Finally, you are parcing the various aspects of MDSr far too finely. He is not a good coach, period. There is no need for further analysis.
"I predicted dire consequences if he was not relieved"
Yes, you did. But you knew as well as anyone that he would not be fired after last year. There was very little reason for it. The team was two years removed from it’s best playoff run ever, had suffered catastrophic injuries, and was bringing in new players. So he was going to be the coach this year regardless.
Going forward, I am ready for a new coach because I am so completely bored with Dunleavy and Clippers basketball right now. I would rather be fun and lose than be boring and mediocre. I think a lot more people are on board with you now because it is reasonable.
Where were you pre-Dunleavy? Were you calling for Elgin’s head?
The last point, which I have made to you over the last year, and Zhiv just made above: protesting DTS is fruitless, as it is his team. He pays the bills. He can run it how he pleases. So if you are waiting for DTS to change his ways before you can be happy, it may be wise to just pick a new team, because this one is his, and he ain’t selling anytime soon.
F-Elton!
I didn't start really giving my heart to the Clippers
until DTS committed to the team by resigning Maggette and EB.
I disagree with your position on DTS, and I always have. In addition, I never, ever give up hope.
I accept it with a sigh
Jax, you never ever giving up hope is what I like about Clipper fans, plus the fact we seem to discuss the finer points of basketball instead of drooling over how cool one guy on your team is. But I think accepting things the way they are is a big part of being a Clipper fan as well. It isn’t just the World vs. the Clippers, it’s the World+DTS+MDSr vs. the Clippers.
The Clippers not only battle their opponents, but they battle their own mediocre coach, crummy owner, a reputation that’s permanently installed as a noose around their necks, and an ignorant national media who likes to pile crap on them without ever seeing a game.
That’s why I root for the Clippers. To see them stick it to everybody and their dog, when they show people they can be a great team. That’s why I loved Sam. He spoke out and brought a swagger to the team, to the point where they could be proud of being a Clipper.
I look forward to that day again…hopefully next season.
Hope to go along with your change?
Where have I heard this before?:-)
Anywho, which position on DTS do you disagree with?
F-Elton!
It wasn't the collapse
It was that we all knew it was coming. Whether it was enough of a collapse to hang on, or to blow that big of a lead, well we had to watch to find out. There’s just no consolation or rationalization that can bail Dunleavy out after the same thing happens over and over.
If we could try a tag team coaching job, Dunleavy for the 1st half, Hughes for the 2nd half, i’d be willing to try that out.
I’ve always been more of a Dunleavy guy than not, and still appreciate him giving us some stability at coach when no one seemed to want this job. He also obviously had a positive effect on Sterling as well. But he’s just not getting it done, and an increasing number of fans and sports writers have cottoned on. It’s clearly getting to a boiling point, and the Cleveland game could very well be the nail in the coffin.
Just noticed...
Zach 3FG% 0.368
Baron TOTAL FG% 0.366
What’s so bad about Zach? If Baron is too fat to get open, you make adjustments.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Ah, John R
The yin to the Jax yang.
The Zach 3FG% argument in the Simmons piece was one of my main peeves. It’s part of his larger ZBo argument that I really don’t agree with.
If you’ve watched the Clippers this season (like say, if you spent 12 grand on season tickets, and it was worth it just to see Lebron) you know that Zach Randolph can make 3 pt shots. It’s just a fact. He’s 21-57 as a Clipper. We talked about how he felt more comfortable taking the 3 under D’Antoni, and now it’s a valuable weapon for him.
And of course that doesn’t include taking a bad 3 pt attempt on a broken play, which were the “bookends” of the game against the Cavs. No one wants those shots. They’re unfortunate.
The point is that when Zach gets a good, open look from 3, he has a good chance of making it. It’s part of his game.
This issue caused me to amble through Clipper 3 pt statistics, remembering the good old days. Like 04-05, when MJaric let the team with 56 total 3s, on 151 attempts for .371%. The Clips were out-3ed 485-231 in that distinguished campaign, with Rick Brunson chipping in 48/.369, Maggs getting 51/.304, and Bobby Simmons, who only started shooting 3s in the 2nd half of the season, going 50-115/.435 and taking home 50 million for his troubles.
SNovak 81-203/.399, FJones 35-89/.393, EGordon 99-255/.388. Clips have made 407 3s to opponents 428, by far the closest margin in recent memory. And they have 15 wins to show for it!
Tim Thomas 136-356/.382 in 06-07, followed up by 83-271/.306 in 07-08.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 12, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Argh
ZBO should not be setting up at the 3 pt line for the game winning shot. And he wasn’t supposed to do so on that play. He was only out there because, as Simmons and KA explained in great detail, the Clippers could not run the play correctly and he popped out to receive the ball because no one else could. Much of the blame for why BD couldn’t get the ball can be laid on ZBO.
Which is why John R’s post is so misplaced and irrelevant. And why it is so unnecessary to go combing through Clipper three point statistics. The point, dear boys, is that this was yet another broken play that shouldn’t have been.
Aren’t you sick of incompetence? Apparently not quite yet.
John R's point and Zhiv's point...
No one is really defending the three Zach took in the final seconds. Simmons criticized Zach’s other threes in the fourth, one of which he made. Zhiv is saying that it was a good shot, and I agree.
John’s simply getting a dig in at Baron.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Mar 12, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Zach made one of four
Baron made zero of four. Oh to have those 4 possession back again. The last play likely wouldn’t have mattered.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Ok, so we disagree on Zhiv's point
Again, John R’s dig, point, or whatever, is irrelevant.
Huh?
Much of the blame for why BD couldn’t get the ball can be laid on ZBO
My apologies to ESPN, but that is just silly.
F-Elton!
Let me explain
He was supposed to set a screen off the stack, and when he didn’t, it created a time problem for BD to get out and get the ball
RIght Zhiv
The 3 ball is a weapon for Zach. It’s bad when he settles for them, and it’s bad when he jacks them up. Same with Baron.
F-Elton!
Not the one at the end...
the open looks he got in the course of the 4th. those were good shots. not great shots… good shots.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Mar 12, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
No...
Not really.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Mar 12, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Dunleavy is not a bad GM.....so far.
Let’s give him credit where credit is due, because he doesn’t have any on the court. He did draft Thorton, Gordon, Taylor, and DJ. All of which are looking to be really good draft picks, especially DJ and Taylor coming from the second round. Even though they are still young, they have a lot of untapped potential and are by far the best core of young players we’ve had in a long time. (Don’t even make me bring up Clippers draft picks! You all know what i’m talking about)
As John R pointed out, Novak has been the best 3 point shooter on this team. All Dunleavy had to do to get him was offer the Rockets some cash! I know he’s not the greatest player, but a nice bench option to have, especially for this team which has always lacked 3 point shooters.
Can you think of a better ligitmate replacement for Elton Brand? Zach has been great for us this season, how can you say that was a bad decision? We gave up 2 washed up vets (one who no longer plays) for a 20 and 10 player.
Say what you will about his coaching, but I think he has set this team up for the future. I believe this team can make a deep playoff run in the years to come, and I don’t care if they don’t win just somebody (other than Dunleavy) get my god damn team in the playoffs!
by ChrisPaulFTW on Mar 12, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thought I would mention that there are only 2 players in the league averaging 20pts and 10 rebounds right now. Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan. Two other players also average 20 and 10, Al Jefferson (23pts 11rbds) is injured for the rest of the season and believe it or not our very own Zach Randolph (21.7pts 10.5rbds although he hasn’t played enough games for it to count yet)… I don’t know how much you loved Cat Mobley and Tim Thomas but I sure aint missing them right now.
by ChrisPaulFTW on Mar 12, 2009 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Karmik Favor?
The only people in this whole mess that deserve a favor are the fans. Especially those stuck watching “could care less” BD.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Shaq digs in on Dwight Howard once again, calling his eventual departure ‘a travesty’
- Behind the locker room doors before and after Lin’s game-winning shot against the Raptors
- Video: Jeremy Lin adds to his legend
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Rick Fox isn’t here for the right reasons
- A shameless businessman wants to trademark “Linsanity”
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
