Clips Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Along The Olentangy for Ohio State Fans!

It's Been an Interesting Couple of Days in Clipper Nation

I don't always have the best instincts when it comes to this blogging thing.  Sometimes I write too often.  Sometimes I write too infrquently.  (And when I write, I almost always write too much, lacking much of an edit function.)  But at the conclusion of the Cleveland game Tuesday night, I had a feeling that I didn't need to rush into a 4000 word post, suggesting in my (relatively) brief recap that we all take the three days between games to "brood and stew and analyze to our hearts content."  And it looks like my instinct was right.

There's been an avalanche of Clippers-related output since that game, while I've mostly sat on the sidelines.  Citizen Zhiv has been at the forefront here on ClipsNation, with some piquant observations in a comment yesterday and a fascinating FanPost today, both of which have been promoted to the front page. 

ClipperBlog meanwhile has experienced a two day rennaissance borne of despair.  Kevin's output has always been less voluminous than my own, which no doubt has something to do with him having a real job (the poor sap).  (That is not a criticism of Kevin at all - just an observation.  This little site of mine benefits greatly from being the quantity Clippers blog while striving to also provide quality.  But I love Kevin's work and will happily read whatever he writes.)  Now that he's a big wig at ESPN, one wonders how he has any time at all for the 'woeful', 'hapless' Clippers.

But the loss to Cleveland triggered something.  I'll let him explain:

Tuesday night’s loss combined with the Sterling incident, and Chris’ bitching has produced a sulfurous funk, what Simmons calls the stench, around the team.  Clippers fans, with rare exceptions, are accustomed to a layer of gloom that hangs over the franchise, but most of it can be managed with a long sigh, shake of the head, and a resigned laugh.  It’s what Clippers fans do.  But something shifted overnight Tuesday, and by Wednesday afternoon, the climate had changed, even for the most patient among us.

His pain is our gain.  KA has posted three times since the end of the Cleveland game, each a captivating glimpse into the complex world that is Clipper misery.

And then there's the coverage from the worldwide leader.  J.A. Adande, the LA based former Times columnist, was of course at the game and headlined the Daily Dime with an ode to LeBron which included the de rigeur reference to the "Clippers' typical self-destructive tendencies".  Some guy named Kevin Arnovitz batted second on the Dime, making it four times since the game that he's written about it.  The Clippers even earned the honor of Tuesday's Worst on the Dime, opposite LeBron's Best:

TUESDAY'S WORST
Los Angeles Clippers: Up 19 points in the fourth quarter at home, the Clippers couldn't make the lead stand against the Cavaliers in an 87-83 loss.

Whoever said "No press is bad press" was not a Clippers' fan.

We even had the serendipitous story of KA lobbying ESPN rookie guru (he's a guru as concerns rookies, not in his first season of being a guru) David Thorpe in Boston about Eric Gordon, relayed by Henry Abbott in TrueHoop.  When Thorpe's new rookie rankings appeared, Gordon had magically moved ahead of O.J. Mayo and Thorpe opened his analysis of Gordon thusly: "Gordon has really taken center stage in this class -- he is simply outstanding as a talent."  The subtleties of this situation were lost on 99.99% of the people who read that line - but obsessing as we have lo these many months over Thorpe's disregard of Gordon, we here at ClipsNation knew that Kevin had done the FSM's work in the rafters of TD Banknorth Garden.

And then there's Bill Simmons.  More on that later.  (Let me say that ESPN apparently didn't think NBA front page on Wednesday was prominent enough for this piece and included it in Thursday's Daily Dime.  Simmons must secretly love MDsr for the inspiration and material he provides.)

What makes this all the more interesting (to me at any rate) is that this flash flood of Clippers analysis has washed over a desert of local media covereage.  The Los Angeles metro area, a megalopolis of something like 17 million people, has exactly one newspaper beat reporter covering this NBA team (Lisa Dillman of the LA Times).  When Donald Sterling made his surprise locker room visit last week, that one beat reporter was on vacation, leaving it to some guy in Cleveland to break the story.  And no one in the media has covered the season ticket holder meeting from a week earlier.   (I should also note that esrtwhile LA Daily News Clippers beat reporter and sometime blogger Ramona Shelburne re-surfaced briefly this week, for which we are thankful.)

So when Bill Simmons and J.A. Adande (and Kevin Arnovitz and Citizen Zhiv and to a lesser extent ClipperSteve) jump in to fill the void, it's terrific, if a tad disorienting, to have people writing about the Clippers.  But as a journalism student, it's worth noting the difference between the traditional roles of beat reporter, columinst, blogger and comedy writer (Simmons).  Without turning this into my master's thesis (though that is an idea), the beat reporter reports the facts, while all of the others are allowed and even encouraged to include generous amounts of opinion (and the comedy writer gets to just make stuff up, as long as it's funny.)

The Cleveland game therefore generated a ripple of facts in the Clippers-centric game recap from Lisa Dillman of the LA Times - and a tsunami of opinion. Which is great.  It's the lifeblood of a blog, so I'm certainly not complaining.  I'm just pointing out this unique media coverage situation.

Phew.  That was one long introduction.

With apologies to Zhiv, Kevin's posts are probably the most interesting to me.  Kevin and I communicate via email from time to time, and I've known for awhile that he just doesn't like Zach Randolph.  And with further apologies to Zhiv, seems to me he used to dislike Zach Randolph too, back when Z-Bo was a trade rumor and not a Clipper, but he's not the president of Club Optimism for nothing.  How was the therapy session, Zhiv?

It all brings to mind the Seinfeld monologue.  (I was able to track down the quote, but not the specific episode - anyone know?  Probably the Keith Hernandez one.  "I'm not driving him to the airport!")

Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify. Because the players are always changing, the team can move to another city-- you're actually rooting for the clothes, when you get right down to it...You are standing and cheering and yelling for your clothes to beat the clothes from another city. Fans will be so in love with a player, but if he goes to another team they boo him. This is the same human being in a different shirt; they hate him now. Boo! Different shirt, boo!

By the way, I haven't read it yet but I came across an academic paper concerning the creation of sports fan identity that uses the above Seinfeld quote as it's starting point.  One imagines it could have much to say to the readers of ClipsNation.

I've certainly wondered what I would have done if back in summer 2005 Kobe Bryant had actually signed with the Clippers.  Would Kobe have become my favorite player?  Or would I have happily taught my children's children to say "Kobe was a punk"?  I like to believe the latter, but of course I never had to make that choice.

Happily, none of the Clippers' dubious acquisitions of the past eight months have persented the same level of ambiguity for me personally.  I always liked Marcus Camby, and have questioned in writing many times why Ben Wallace was an All Pro while Camby was not.  I liked Baron Davis before he came to the Clippers (now I'm not so sure).  And though I quipped that Baron Davis, Ricky Davis and Jason Williams could form a cancer's survivor club, Williams never actually joined the team, and Ricky is the only one of the group who I ever truly disdained (and he's done little as a Clipper to make one re-consider him, so no internal conflict there).

Zach's a toughie.  The clip of him mis-handling and then launching an airball from behind the arc has been played to death as evidence of his lack of worth - FSM forbid you should ever play 6 seconds of (admittedly) terrible baskeball in the age of YouTube.  And when a smart person like Kevin Pritchard trades a guy for next to nothing, it certainly gives one pause.  After all, who better than the brain trust in Portland to determine Zach's worth?  He averaged 23.6 points and 10.1 rebounds for the Blazers his final season there - and they traded him for Channing Frye.  It's pretty clear what they thought of his statistical output versus his impact on winning games.

But perhaps because I'm a Clipper fan, I've generally tended to argue more than most that statistics do matter.  That, for instance, Elton Brand's sky high productivity was worthy of a spot on the All Star team, even if the team's record wasn't great.  So for me it's not enough to say "Zach doesn't help teams win ball games" and base that on his team's records.  I can't find a link to it, but back in 2007 I voted for Zach for the All Star game in an NBA blogger poll.  I don't want to be naive - I know that statistics aren't everything.  But he's one of the only players in the league averaging 20 points and 10 rebounds per game, and it's not the first time he's done that.  The guy can put up numbers - and that counts for something.

Of course charater counts too, and it gets stickier there.  But let's save some of these issue for another time.

So while I don't have a major problem rooting for Zach Randolph in Clipper laundry, Z-Bo clearly presented a Kobe-esque conundrum for Kevin.  We saw where this was headed for KA back in February when Z-Bo punched Louis Amundson.  The Cleveland game (and that final play in particular) has seemingly pushed him over the edge. So put yourself in Kevin's shoes - you're not just a Clippers fan, you're a Clipper blogger, and one of the lions of the NBA blogosphere.  And you HATE - viscerally despise - the team's leading scorer and highest paid player.  That sucks.  More than just being a Clipper blogger, which I can tell you, already sucks plenty.

But I find it interesting that this one game has elicited such a strong reaction.  Obviously, the Clippers squandered a 19 point fourth quarter lead, which is, let's just say, disappointing.  But yesterday's standings told me that Cleveland was tied for the BEST record in the NBA, and the Clippers were tied for the second WORST record in the NBA.  So looked at another way, the Clippers had the lead in the final 30 seconds against an NBA power.  It goes without saying that we would feel very differently about that game had it been tight the whole way, or if the Clippers had trailed all game, even if the final score were identical.  So sure, it's disconcerting that the Clippers have faded under some fourth quarter pressure the last two games.  But it's worth pointing out that Indiana (still fighting for a playoff spot in the East) and Cleveland (fighting for home court advantage) both had something BIG to play for.  Is it a good thing that the Clippers didn't respond to there desperate intensity?  No.  Is it surprising?  Not particularly, no.  After the Indiana game, I chose to bury my head and focus only on the first 41 minutes of basketball, during which the Clippers looked terrific.  Well, for 37 minutes Tuesday, the Clippers dismantled a team that many think can win the title this season.  That's not nothing.

As for the final shot, it was obviously bad.  Really, really bad.  But was it that much worse than Marcus Camby shooting a three against Denver back in December?  Or Baron Davis on countless end of clock situations?  Hell, even the shot Baron made against Portland to force OT was a bad shot - it just happened to go in.  Clearly Zach's decision was not worse than Al Thornton running the entirely wrong play on the final possession in Chicago.  Zach's shot was really bad because he had some time and he didn't try very hard to improve his situation.  But we've seen plenty of really bad final shots around these parts.  The emailer at the end of Simmons' column that says "I think Randolph's 3 might have been the single dumbest thing I've ever seen a professional athlete do during a game" must not have watched a lot of professional sports.  We can rule out the Chris Webber time out since he wasn't a professional at the time (oh no wait, he was).  How about starting your touchdown dance before getting into the end zone and consequently getting run down and fumbling the ball?  Ever seen an NBA player fail to even get a shot off before the final buzzer down two?  Ever seen an NBA player take a two with time expiring and his team down three?  I've seen those things, lots and lots of times and they're much dumber than what Zach did, on a pure intelligence scale.  Zach's play was lazy and obviously ineffective - but it wasn't monumentally dumb.

The Clippers lost the game because they became complacent and because the greatest player on the planet wanted them to lose.  Here's the thing: after holding Cleveland to 17, 17 and 18 in the first three quarters of the game, the Cavs put up 35 in the final quarter - more than double their quarterly average to that point.  Complacency?  Let's see, we're ahead by 17 with one quarter left, and our defense has held them to 17.3 points per quarter so far.  It's not the least bit surprising that they were walking the ball up - they were absolutely certain that all they had to do was continue playing defense and they would win the game.  It's almost always a mistake to think that way, as it was this time.  But again, not overly surprising.

And by the way, I didn't think their defense in the last quarter was that poor.  There were a few bad plays: the pick and roll where Z got a layup because Randolph had his head turned and didn't rotate; the missed box out by Eric Gordon on Booby Gibson. (Gordon complained after that play that he was pushed by Gibson, which frankly pissed me off all the more - you've got like 40 pounds on Gibson and could bench press him - here's an idea, box out, hold your position, and get the damn rebound.  I'm fine with EJ losing Rookie of the Year for his lackluster rebounding alone.)  On the winning three pointer, the Clippers played dare I say great defense until the final rotation - Baron and Thornton failed to communicate and both closed on Gibson when one of them should have gone to the wide open Mo Williams.  But for anyone who thinks it's easy stopping LeBron James, go back and review what happened in the 2007 playoffs against the Pistons.  Oh, and the Pistons actually had something to play for in that one, whereas the Clippers get more ping pong balls for losing.

Still 53 hours to go before tip off in Denver.  Keep chewing on it, but let's hope no one has to actually chew their arm off to get out of this Clippers trap.  I'm not sure who's going to get to the point-by-point Sports Guy rebuttal - me or Citizen Zhiv.  But I know it's coming.  We have time.

0 recs  |  Comment 87 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

"And when a smart person like Kevin Pritchard trades a guy for next to nothing, it certainly gives one pause."

I had just moved from Portland when the Z-Bo trade was done and I still have a ton of friends in the river city who are rabid blazer fans. If I recall correctly, the entire motivation for shipping out Zach was because they had just won the draft lottery and were set to land Oden. First of all, Zach was the last remaining “JailBlazer.” For a time, he was considered the only guy still worth having on the team because of his youth and skill level while the rest of the team was shipped out as quickly as possible. During the Jailblazer days (I was still living there at this point) fans were regularly protesting games because of the team’s misbehavior— from dog fights, to shoot outs at a strip bar not 5 miles from the airport after a tough road trip, etc. Zach was going to be dealt at some point, and when Oden became available Pritchard jumped at the chance.

That’s just my memory of the situation, and those Blazer fans who frequent this board can certainly correct me if my memory is wrong. It just irks me when people say that Zach has been bounced around for no reason. He was run from Portland the minute Oden was available (because of his tough past on a former Blazer team that was rediculous) and was shipped out of NY as a straight salary dump. It had nothing to do with his production (he was tearing up in Dantoni’s offense) and it had nothing to do with his attitude ( I can’t remember any incidents during his time there.) It was a move by management to free up cap space 2 YEARS FROM NOW in order to get Lebron.

Honestly, in hindsight (I’m reaching out to the Blazers edge guys here) would the Blazers not be pleased to have Z-Bo now? The team is built to win now, and Oden is giving you nothing. With Zach in the lineup at the 4, and Marcus Aldridge moved to the 3 with Batum out of the lineup; would the Blazers not be in a better position?

by Michael White on Mar 12, 2009 2:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Nice...

It’s a little puzzling. Randolph’s shot the other night was obviously boneheaded. The play had broken down and he had no clue how much time was on the clock… and he seemed to realize his mistake immediately after it happened. But… so what?
I freely admit that I was horrified when the Clips traded for Zach Randolph, but I’ve become a convert. The guy has limited defensive skills but he seems to work hard, he rebounds well, and scores with uncanny skill. I don’t understand KA’s dislike for the guy. Damning him for punching another player in a heated moment seems… small (and we’re totally overlooking the fact that Randolph had an ill parent fifteen hundred miles away… and if I heard correctly, afterwards, ZR apologized to the coach for losing his head.) I don’t know the particulars of his issues in Portland (guns, a strip bar?) but I think we’ve forgiven a lot worse… both in our athletic heroes and in ourselves. I ain’t perfect, that’s for sure.
But now KA wants to hang Zach (and MDSr.) for a last second error in one game? Get real.
I think if Baron Davis worked half as hard as Zach Randolph this season, the Clips would have a lot more than fifteen wins and we wouldn’t be mired in endless conversations about Mike Dunleavy’s coaching abilities or Al Thornton’s limited second year growth. (He played pretty well the other night as well.)

by swamigusto on Mar 12, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

To be clear the guns and strip bar incident wasn’t Zach (neither was the dog fighting.) I just brought it up to remind people of the nonsense that the JailBlazers were all about—- and Zach was a 20 year old when they drafted him.

by Michael White on Mar 12, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is a Zach strip bar story...

I don’t remember the details, but there is definitely a Z-bo strip bar story.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 12, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha, well Zach was sort of involved in a different strip club story. The shooting one was not him (it was Derek Anderson I think.) Actually I think Z-Bo and Darius Miles were at the club too. The story you are thinking of involving Zach was when he left the team for bereavement leave (to go to Indiana) and was spotted the next night at a strip club.

Not good I grant you. But considering Zach’s behavior this past week with his dedication to fly to LA and back in the light of his father’s passing then his actions of a few years ago. One can argue it shows his maturity.

by Michael White on Mar 12, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zach skipped the team practice because of bereavement leave (he was caught at a strip club that night beacuse he didn't pay his bill for the lapdances)

He also was caught drag racing downtown, and some other stuff. When he came back to Portland (as a Knick) he was at a club that had a shootout, but no charges were filed against him.

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 12, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Someone will stop by

Sabonis4Ever or Cablinasian or someone from BE will stop by to comment soon enough, no doubt. BUT, I know what they’re going to say. They would want nothing to do with Z-bo at this point. It’s an ‘embarrassment of riches’ thing – they’ve got a ton of talent on that team, and the perfect leader in Brandon Roy. Would they want Z-bo for $3M per? Maybe. But they would touch him for the $16M he’s making, and who could blame them? Part of it is definitely the association with the Jailblazers era. But there’s a lot more.

Having said that, the main issue I have with those that dismiss the acquisition of Z-bo is that you have to look at the other side of the equation. Tim Thomas and a now retired Cat Mobley. On the basketball court, that’s a complete no-brainer, especially when you consider that Thomas is no less of a screw up than Z-bo. The issue of course being that extra year in Zach’s deal, but here’s the thing people – WE’RE NOT THERE YET. It may be a monumentally bad trade when we get to 2011. But is it a bad trade if Zach averages 20/10 over 75 games next season? It’s not a bad trade – not yet.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 12, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

No way

I’m sorry but there’s NO WAY the Blazers would want Z-Bo right now. That team, with quite possibly the best chemistry in the league? The team that gathered in a huddle and prayed together when Rudy Fernandez got hurt? Please.

They didn’t get rid of ZBo because of Oden. Why would that make sense? They play different positions. I’m not sure that timing even makes sense.

They got rid of ZBo because all he did was jack up bad shots, play zero defense, pout and blame his teammates. They got rid of ZBo because Brandon Roy, as a rookie, was tired of ZBo’s antics, stepped up to him in a huddle and told him to shut up. That moment was when BRoy took control of that team and begun the rebuilding process from the Jailblazer era.

I was never a fan of ZBo and I’m not now. He’s matured a bit and he’s not the petulant child he was in Portland. But anyone can see that his style of play, with zero effort on defense and penchant for jacking up bad shots from the perimeter with no conscience, is not conducive to winning. But on the Clippers, that’s hardly a prerequisite.

I just miss the days when even though we weren’t an elite team, I could be proud of the character and effort of my Clippers.

by madglove on Mar 12, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

"That moment was when BRoy took control of that team and begun the rebuilding process from the Jailblazer era."

Wrong. Nearly ever single player from the Jailblazer era was gone by the time Roy was drafted. Sheed, Stoudamire, Miles, Anderson, Wells— all gone before Roy was even a pro. So you don’t like Zbo, fine, and you like Roy, great. But Roy came in after the Jailblazer team had been completely purged (except for Randolph) so it’s a bit much to assign credit to Roy for starting a rebuilding process that had been in full swing for some time before he had even arrived.

by Michael White on Mar 12, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tearing down...not rebuilding

It’s really semantics and I’m not totally disagreeing with you, but my point is not “wrong.” Getting rid of the Jailblazers wasn’t rebuilding. It was tearing it down. It was cleaning out all the bad. Basically like blowing up a condemned building. But it wasn’t actually BUILDing anything. It wasn’t until BRoy stepped up and took control of the team that the actual reBUILDing took place.

Of course you could say that picking BRoy was the first building block. Anyway, my point is that symbolically, that’s when Roy stepped up and really began to take control of that team. To that point, nothing of note had actually changed.

Anyway, my main point still stands, no way in hell Portland would take ZBo back. Even for free. I know you felt compelled to pick at my post because I clearly said your point was off, but the truth is the truth. And they’re not “built to win now” as you said. Portland is one of the youngest teams in the league. Their prime is still in front of them.

by madglove on Mar 12, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

“The truth is the truth.” I don’t really know what that means since I asked if Blazers fans would want to take Z-Bo back. The answer to that question is not factual, its an opinion, so I’m not really sure how an opinion can be wrong. I’m sure at least one of the several hundred thousand Blazer fans would like to have Z-Bo back.

I’ve always been more of a talents win’s out kind of guy (perhaps it works more in baseball than basketball but what can I say.) From a talent perspective, I think Z-Bo replacing Batum would be an upgrade.

Anyway, wasn’t really trying to get into an argument, just wanted to start a conversation. You and I clearly disagree regarding Randolph, no harm in that :).

by Michael White on Mar 12, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

No worries

I wasn’t trying to argue per se either. My bad. I don’t mind the debate.

And what Blazer fans would do and what the Blazers front office would do are two completely different things. Just wanted to point that out. Obviously we can’t know for sure, but I’m pretty sure Pritchard doesn’t regret that decision at all. Oh and Batum plays the 3. Aldridge plays ZBo’s position and they’re pretty happy with him.

As for ZBo, honestly, I don’t hate the guy. But he’s no coach’s dream. Dunleavy just tends to go after low character guys. He’s like Jerry Tarkanian of the NBA. In the end, that kind of talent doesn’t win you rings, which is why Dunleavy hasn’t ever been able to sustain winning in this league.

In the end, I like what I’ve seen in ZBo as a Clipper. Tues was a low moment but if he had the right coach, I really believe his shortcomings would be minimized and his talents maximized. He also needs Baron to be a better leader. Baron’s just so discouraged due to Dunleavy’s ineptitude.

Next year, with a new coach (hopefully) and a new start, I have some hope for the team. But I’m not sure how much I have left.

by madglove on Mar 12, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait, Madglove...

There were two things you said that rankle:

“…anyone can see that his style of play, with zero effort on defense and penchant for jacking up bad shots from the perimeter with no conscience, is not conducive to winning.”

That does not at all sound like the Zach Randolph we’ve watched as Clipper fans. (It does however, sound exactly like Baron Davis.)

“Dunleavy just tends to go after low character guys.”

Now I know Mike Dunleavy’s approval rating is woefully low. I know nothing’s working and I know he was the first coach of the “Jailblazers” (though he was NOT the GM). But I’m not sure I see this tendency. Are you talking about Ricky Davis? Okay a little. Tim Thomas? A dog, maybe, but not a BAD dog. Maybe Baron Davis again? Or perhaps Marcus Camby? Eric Gordon? Chris Kaman? This one doesn’t work for me.
I think there is a tendency, with strong coaches, to take players with marginal reputations, believing that you can fix them or work with them. And Dunleavy might be guilty of that with a Ricky Davis… but I don’t think that’s what happened with Zach.
I think, in Zach Randolph, MDSr. saw exactly what he is… a 20 and 10 player he could bring in for spare parts.

by swamigusto on Mar 12, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

"I’m sure at least one of the several hundred thousand Blazer fans would like to have Z-Bo back."

If any fan did I don’t think they would admit it out loud. As for Batum, he is a 20 year old rookie (a SF) who’s main purpose is defensive stopper. He guards the other team’s best player every game and only gets around 18 minutes. Travis Outlaw subs in for Batum rather early, then switches to the 4 for LMA when he goes out. If Zach was still a Blazer he would take Channing Frye’s minutes, and Frye only plays because Oden is hurt (is scheduled to come back Monday).

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 12, 2009 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

"If any fan did I don’t think they would admit it out loud"

I’m not sure what difference that makes.

And I kind of figured I was out of bounds on this one because Zach leaving Portland has genuinely seemed like a good thing for both parties involved. Some points though.
1) The Blazers were rumored to be interested in trading for Amare. That would have moved LMA to the 3 anyway right?
2) As you say if Zach was still a Blazer he would take Channing Frye’s minutes which are his because Oden is out. Therefore, my initial point stands that you would be getting more from Z-Bo today because Oden has not contributed.
3) I appreciate Madglove’s point that the team is young and therefore they have a bright future ahead of them. But the Blazers cant keep all these young players under team control forever. Costs are going to skyrocket right? I think the window for your team is smaller than you might realize.
4) For all the smart things the Blazers have done, lets not forget it was the Blazers not the Knicks who gave Z-Bo the current contract he has (albeit before Pritchard came to town.)

I mean, I understand that chemistry matters and all, and it sure was a touching moment when Roy led the team in prayer and all that. But Zach is good at basketball. And he seems to have genuinely matured (and I say that as a guy who followed his career since he was a Blazer.) I’m not advocating for Zach to return to Portland obviously, I’m a Clipper fan and I like having him here. But as a Clipper fan who has a positive history with Portland, I can’t help but think Zach on that team would be a very, very tough out in the Western Conference playoffs.

by Michael White on Mar 13, 2009 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt it

What some don’t understand is that Zbo is essentially a pariah in Portland for the reasons discussed above. Which is why others are and have been concerned about what he would do here. Yes he’s talented offensively. However, do we really want to pay $17M for four years to such a player if we are essentially trying to rebuild?

by Jax on Mar 13, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Were the Clippers trying to rebuild?

I never got that impression. I don’t think Baron Davis did, either. They seem to be in “win now” mode. (I chuckle as I write that).

For the rationale behind the Zbo trade, see Zhiv’s post. It explains it all. I agree with what he writes.

Zach was scuttled out of Portland because they were rebuilding. They had Oden and LaMarcus to play up front, so they didn’t need to spend that much on a PF. Isiah was glad to take him. Portland was glad to send him.

FF to this year. NYK is clearly shooting for LeBron/summer of 2010. So they wanted to dump him ASAP. They got the cap relief they needed, which the Clippers really don’t need, since Dunleavy has finally learned that LAC is not a marquee FA destination. So he got the best PF available.

I like the move.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Mar 13, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok

“Win now mode” – LOL. I’ll let that one simmer.

Portland was rebuilding because they’d decided not to move forward with Zbo for the reasons discussed.

NYK didn’t want him regardless.

I don’t like the move.

by Jax on Mar 13, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Win Now!

That’s the Clippers, Jax! C’mon!

Of course, we can’t actually win anything until next year, but still.

by citizen zhiv on Mar 13, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting question

Was that their only alternative? And the key point imo is why they were in the Hobsons’ Choice situation to begin with.

There are always rational explanations for everything the Clippers do. Just ask MDSr. Or some of the posters herein.

I’d rather hold them accountable. But that’s just me.

by Jax on Mar 13, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

We can't keep going back in time

I mean, jeez, if only Sterling wouldn’t have purchased the team things might be different. But he did. This is why our discussions never get anywhere. Let’s focus on this specific issue.

You may be right. Maybe Zach or 2010 weren’t the only options. As we saw, Amare ended up on the block, and PHX was looking for financial relief in exchange for him. Would they have taken Cat and TT? It may not have been the only option at the time.

If I"m not mistaken, the Clips were 2-15 or so at the time of the trade. Clearly something had to happen. Either make a move to improve, or blow it up. Sr. chose to improve now. I would say that that happened. They have won more games with Zach than without. It still doesn’t appear to be enough.

Anyway, it would be great if you could address this issue without bringing up every bad move from the past. We know there were many bad moves. Can’t change them. And we agree that it is time for Sr. to be relieved of his duties. I think evaluating this move apart from past moves would be helpful.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Mar 13, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

1) The trade for Amare shipped out LMA
2) Oden has contributed. He is #27th in double doubles (despite having missed 14 games). He is rebounding at a very very high rate and draws double teams already in his rookie year. Greg has played 8 more games than Zach, so…….
3) Blazers can keep every single player they want too. Paul Allen will pay luxury tax. He has in the past and this team has a legitimate shot to win it all in the next ten years. It doesn’t hurt that the Blazers as an organization are making money.
4) They have done hundreds of dumb things, in the past. Like giving Darius a 6 year contract.

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 13, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Miles was moved this offseason

He was on Brandon’s team for 2 years. The 2006 draft (LMA, Roy, Sergio i guess) was the biggest moment in the rebuilding movement.

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 12, 2009 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Blazers traded Zach to make room for LMA to start at his best position (4, he could never play the 3)

Brandon Roy (as a rookie) asked Pritchard to get rid of Zach because of his locker room persona and on the court play. We would not be pleased to have Z-Bo now.

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 12, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha...

I love Seinfeld….it’s one where Jerry gives away his SB tix to Tim Whatley…

hey, you guys know your Septetrions and I know my Seinfeld episodes!

The Ukraine is weak. It’s feeble. I think it’s
time to put the hurt on the Ukraine.

"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men

by Lawler's Law on Mar 12, 2009 3:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Great Post

Thank FSM that CS finally stepped in, at length—I was ready for a little break. And yes, it’s funny how that one game generated all of this activity and analysis.

Just to clarify my stance on the Zbo issue. I was HORRIFIED at the trade, shocked and deeply dismayed. There were two huge reasons. First, the Clips gave up tons of 2010 cap space, when there is a bumper crop of free agents. Second, I thought all of the things that the Great KA has been reiterating about Zach Randolph were true and the beginning and ending of the story, that he put up “empty” numbers, that he was a bad guy, that he didn’t help his team win, that he had a bloated, crippling contract.

The first and most obvious turn I took on the deal was surveying the Clipper landscape and seeing no Tim Thomas (07-08 3pt stats 83-271/.306… 6-20/.300 in 10 Fall 08 games as a Clipper… if you can’t remember how painful that was, think about how you feel right now about BD 76-259/.293), which was a real ray of sunshine and break in the clouds. We’ve talked about the addition by subtraction aspects of the deal in the past.

And when it turned out that Kaman was hurt, the deal became even better. There has been a fair amount of “it’s a 15 win season, how much worse could it be” discussion, but let’s imagine this season with Tim Thomas as the starting PF instead of Zach Randolph. Ummm, yeah.

And then Randolph was really good. Like swamigusto, I became a convert. This is the part of Simmons that I don’t really understand. His excuse, I suppose, is that he was following the Celtics and teams that were winning games. He had a preconceived notion about Zbo, and he didn’t alter it. But until the Voskuhl shove the Clips were playing good basketball, led by Zbo, who was really quite good. Zbo’s 21-57 3FG as a Clipper, which includes the two really bad shots on Tuesday night, was a surprise, and he was routinely carving up defenses, and playing a pretty good all around game.

Once it became evident that Zbo was a decent fit for the Clippers, and a massive upgrade on having Tim Thomas catnip available to MDSr, we reviewed the question of his big contract. It was obvious that he was going to replace FElton’s productivity, first of all. And we wondered just what the Clips could hope to get with the 2010 money tied up in Zbo. They’re not going to get Lebron or Wade, and they probably wouldn’t get the guys at the next tier. And they also have Camby’s expiring deal, if they want to sign somebody else. And in the meantime, they’re getting two years of 20/10 out of Zbo. So yeah, I changed my mind and became a convert. It was based on Zbo’s play.

This was one of the more pernicious elements of the Simmons article—CS and I can add it to the list. I don’t know that I subscribe to the view that Simmons is purely a “comedy writer.” I do believe that he’s a blogger, and he definitely has a schtick (Karate Kid, Teen Wolf, etc.), but he’s not just making his arguments and statements for comic effect. The lack of rules about blogging that we all enjoy allows him to overstate things and focus his critique on Dunleavy, but he really means it I think. So we are more than allowed to critique his opinions. And the height of his skewed opinions is perhaps the statement about the Knicks and the Zbo trade, how they found out that Mobley would be forced to retire and the trade still went through, because, in Simmons’ piece, they wanted to get rid of Zbo and his horrible contract so badly. Now, does anybody who knows anything about the NBA need to be educated about the value of this trade to the Knicks, especially in a column about a game in which Lebron James is playing? It was ridiculous, and I can see how CS chooses to dismiss Simmons as a comedy writer when he makes statements like this. But he meant it, and he meant what he was saying about how dumb MDSr is and how ridiculous it was for him to trade for Zach Randolph. Only he left out the part about the Knicks getting the capspace so that they could make an offer to Lebron. And the part about how it’s much more likely that Lebron or Wade and/or Bosh would sign with the Knicks than they would with the Clippers. “Dumbleavy is so dumb and Zach Randolph is so bad that the Knicks went through with the deal even after they found out that Cat Mobley would have to retire. That’s how badly they wanted to get rid of Randolph,” or whatever his amusing way of phrasing it was. No, they wanted cap space to sign Lebron.

Again, whenever I get to this place, I like to say: and as a rabid Boston fan, how do you feel about the Clips squandering that lead to the Cavs? And so now let’s add: and as a rabid Boston fan, how do you feel about the Knicks getting 17 million in 2010 cap space?

by citizen zhiv on Mar 12, 2009 3:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Nailed it

Zach was a net plus just by virtue of getting rid of Thomas (and Mobley, who was blocking EJ).

And, it was unlikely that any of the marque free agents were coming to LAC in 2010. May as well grab some talent now. The Clips have to build their winners the old fashioned way…thru drafting and trades.
They have botched a few drafts (Livingston, Korolev), but their trades have been generally good.

Z-Bo was the only 20-10 guy that could be acquired. He is not a good fit to be your teams best player, but he is a fine piece if there are other elements. The Clippers have talent at every position. It just needs to be refined.

That is where coaching comes in.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Mar 12, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dark Days

I’ve been a Clips fan for many years and I’m a season ticket holder (which means I put my money where my mouth is). So clearly I’ve suffered through some REALLY tough times. But honestly, this season is the first season when I really questioned being a Clips fan. Like I said above, in prior years, I knew the ownership was horrible and the product was bad. But I respected the players and felt that there was sincere effort out there. A lot of that was represented in Brand, who I really admired as a quality individual as well as a player (which is why he defection hurt all the more). This year, I couldn’t be more disappointed in what I see out there. This team has no character. It’s hard to respect them.

I think KA put it best in his most recent post (I hope you don’t mind my quoting CS):

“There’s a very low threshold of expectation among Clippers fans. Other than the tail end of Maurice Taylor’s time with the team, the losing has always been tolerable. Most of those Clippers teams lacked talent, but that wasn’t their fault. Some of those squads actually overachieved [the 39-win 2001-02 team] given the composition of their rosters. Wednesday felt like rock bottom, like franchise armageddon.”

by madglove on Mar 12, 2009 4:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Why would I mind?

I quote KA all the time. It’s a great point, and I don’t necessarily disagree with it.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 12, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's another one...

“I’m a season ticket holder (which means I put my money where my mouth is)…”
There are a lot of other season ticket holders, former season ticket holders, and future season ticket holders writing on this blog. I guarantee you most of the people who aren’t ticket-holders aren’t for very good reasons… and I bet it’s primarily financial. Someone got justifiably angry the other day when ticket-holders were casually referred to as a “bunch of rich guys” (or something like that, I paraphrase).
I, for one, think, as fans we all have our right to our opinions, whether we attend the games or not. Let’s not cast one another in the pejorative in this regard.
We’re ALL Clipper fans. We’re ALL suffering.

by swamigusto on Mar 12, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes and no

You are right, everyone has a right to voice their opinion but if you’re a STH you are losing even more. Not only are you emotionally supporting the team but also financially. Look at it this way, if I didn’t buy season tickets I could take a nice vacation to Europe. Tell me that fact wouldn’t bother you after seeing the team half-ass its way down the court.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Mar 12, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course you have reason to be angry. But I think the point Swamigusto is making is that it could be interpreted that your suffering/commitment to the team is greater than those of us who don’t have the means to purchase tickets.

by Michael White on Mar 12, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, I absolutely see your point...

It was the “I put my money where my mouth is…” line.

by swamigusto on Mar 12, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I win...

I blog about the team. I win the mostest bestest absoluteyest suffer-y Clippers fan. Movin’ on.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 12, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

The thing is...

The thing we keep coming back to is why would rock bottom be when one of the worst teams in the league, playing for nothing, gives up a big lead and loses to one of the best teams in the league, a team with everything at stake.

“There’s a very low threshold of expectation among Clipper fans.” So why would this frustrating loss be “franchise armageddon.” The fact is that it probably isn’t, but somehow it really did feel that way.

“Why is this night different from all other nights?” Maybe it’s time for another moKi turnaround, darkest before the dawn, that type of thing.

by citizen zhiv on Mar 12, 2009 5:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Embarrassment

I think it comes down to embarrassment. This team finds ways to lose despite all the odds. It’s actually pretty amazing.

But one night it’s a blowout to Memphis and the next it’s giving up improbably 19 pt leads just when fans started to hope. It’s not the end result that’s different, it’s the journey.

by madglove on Mar 12, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great point there

“giving up improbably 19 pt leads just when fans started to hope.” That’s what this is all about. Fans started to hope. After beating the Celtics, then getting guys back and playing great for 3 quarters against the Cavs, the fans bought into the long-awaited idea that this is a strong, playoff-ready roster. Killing that tiny first flicker of hope is what made this feel like “franchise armageddon.”

by citizen zhiv on Mar 12, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe

Damn hope.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 12, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hope

  When you see the roster at full strength and they build a solid lead, you begin to have hope that just maybe what they’ve said all year is true, you just can’t win with so many injuries. Yes we had hope, then the total collapse in the fourth following another stellar coaching job by Dunleavy, and all hope is destroyed.

  Really, we know Dunleavy’s not going anywhere because Sterling’s too cheap to let him go. And if he promotes one of the assitants (not likely) what will they have learned under Dunleavy? Honestly, the only way it could work is if they thought “what would Mike do?” and just do the opposite.

  Man, I’m going to miss the Clippers. I’ve had season tickets and packages for the past twelve years, but who can take this?

by eastie Rich on Mar 12, 2009 7:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Everyone is overreacting.

Clips dominated that game and things came a little unglued in the end against perhaps the best team in the NBA. Kaman can be a really good player but was rusty and out of shape. He still has a lot of improving to do. His comments were vintage Kaman. Controversial because he is an idiot, but because he is a big malcontent. Great game by the Clips other than the end, and they get to put in another lotto ball. This team has good talent and they got more lotto picks on the way – this year and MN’s within the next three. MD is still good for this franchise. He basically runs the thing and has DTS’s confidence. That’s better than having a weak coach controlled by DTS where we go back to the glory days of pre-MD. This team still has a ton of upside. Give their injuries this year to any other team and see what happens.

by Jerdog on Mar 12, 2009 8:16 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm with you, Jerdog

But it’s not a popular opinion these days. According to almost everyone, you either hate Mike Dunleavy or your wrong.

by swamigusto on Mar 12, 2009 8:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Actually, you are wrong

There are many people still on board with MDSr.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Mar 12, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm onto you, W....

Since my initial post, I’ve noticed even more eerie coincidences and similarities between you and your alter ego named Jax… but that is a post for another time.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on Mar 13, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wrong?

  Dunleavy’s record as coach, 603w & 723l. Seven winning seasons out of 17. Not great, but great for a Clipper coach? I don’t know how many people are “on board” with Dunleavy, but it’s certainly a minority.

by eastie Rich on Mar 12, 2009 9:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Pressure was mounting.

I can easily say that for the first time this season, the Clipper coverage has been too much for me to catch up with, both in the press and on this board.

It’s understandable however, because there has been pressure mounting with this team, and as it’s been a morbidly fascinating year to follow the Clippers.
1. The Dunleavy situation has been increasingly covered and cottoned onto by fans.
2. There’s the BD situation that has received it’s share of press, and deservedly so.
3. There’s the Sterling situation that has been leaked.
4. Elgin Baylor is lurking somewhere, probably smiling at the teams misfortune.
5. Zach Randolph’s punch & father’s death.
6. EJ’s ROY bid.
7. DeAndre’s blog.
8. The loose lips of Kaman.
9. Dunleavy showing a picture of his sons open leg to the press?
10. We’ve had more 4th quarter collapses this year than any other year.
11. We were looked at with a microscope during the trade deadline.

Even with all of this press we’ve received this year, the Indiana mini collapse didn’t really account for much. It was an inside job that the insiders could kick around and really it wasn’t anything out of the ordinary for the Clippers this year.

But the thing about the Cleveland game was we exposed ourselves to a much wider audience. LeBron James might be the most popular basketball player on the planet, and when he hits a major market like Los Angeles, you better believe the camera’s are rolling, and a lot of people are watching. Sold out Clipper game that didn’t feature the Lakers on a Tuesday night? Are you kidding me. This was a big game, and the 1st game in a long time that we had our full lineup available.

Clipper pride was threatening when we refused to let up over 3 quarters. Our talents were on display. Some of us hoped against hope that this wasn’t a fluke, that what we were watching was really happening. But the 0-17 3PA’s smelled kind of flukey. Still, we were on the verge of a great accomplishment. Beat the Celtics at home big deal. Beat the Celtics & Cleveland? Now you’re talking. On the one night that the battered Clipper fans had hopes of reversing their fortunes even just a little, we all knew that a loss would require some exceptionally horrible play without any excuses.

To have to watch it happen is nightmarish enough, but to have a big chunk of the sports world watch it with us was too much to take. You could imagine everyone pointing at us and laughing. The Laker fans, for how much they might have liked us to win, trust that they got their money’s worth in watching their little brother squirm, and validate their own dominance over us. The members of the press who enjoy writing negative Clipper related columns. Basically to have everyone have a good time at our expense was and is incredibly tough to take.

The season does include a final chapter however. We may have bottomed out such as the stock market may have earlier this week. Other than the body of work which will be the teams final games, the only really important one comes April 5th. If we lay down, it will be very disappointing. If we pull a Cleveland, it will test the organization’s steadfastness, or lack thereof once again. If the Lakers are really heartless, they’ll toy with us for three quarters and let us have it in the 4th. I may be down on us, but i’ll still be down with the Clippers. After all, there’s something about the perseverance of the human spirit that keeps us going.

by ghost_ride on Mar 12, 2009 10:01 PM PDT reply actions  

+1

April 5th it is.

Pretty amusing, when you think about it. In the radio clip CS posted today, Dunleavy said it: “You know, when we had everybody on the court in the first preseason game against the Lakers, we played great, we were a good team” or something like that. BD’s debut in a Clipper uniform. The first half of the first preseason game was the highlight of the season. That’s just how frigging pathetic the Clippers are. And a last stand against the Lakers, a bookend on “a morbidly fascinating year to follow the Clippers.”

“After all, there’s something about the perseverance of the human spirit that keeps us going.”

Go Clippers!

by citizen zhiv on Mar 12, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some persepective, please.

A lot of Clipper fans here have run off and got overly emotional and less rational. To a degree that can be expected. After all it is a sport. However lets set a few points straight here and now and just man up.

-This season, with bile inducing record, is better then the 2 previous.

-Dunleavy is the best thing that has happend to this organization probably ever

-This teams talent and ability is far superior to Dunleavy’s collegiate level coaching.

-There is no way you trade Baron or Camby. Camby should retire from this team. That would be a step in a right direction for being a legitimate franchise starting some credible history. Baron wants to be here so you get him a suitable coach and keep Dunleavy upstairs making the deals.

-The Clevland game was by no means anywhere remotely as bad as everyone is making it seem. “Good grief!”. Everyone is shriveling up because this was our team at full strength and we choked? It was the first time playing at full strength, do they know who the go to guy is? They can’t depend on Dunleavy for that, because if Tim Thomas were still on the team, his number would have been called on the last play. They still have to play together more to win out the close games against the leagues best and have a least a “B” grade coach at the helm. Zach made a poor choice. So what. Oh well. Dunleavy should have made the proper rotations and and timeouts to keep the momentum from swinging so much and letting the game get that close in the first place. Kaman should have been on the bench.

-Back to Zach Randolph and his foul image. Zach has been branded with some supposed unsupported black balling and no one has been called to witness any events of recent times in the last five years or so. Everything seems to point back to his tenure in Portland. I’m going to doing something unpopular here. Been very brutal and up front. What is the reason for Randolph’s stigma? Why is he pegged as a no good loser, who stuffs “hollow” stats, causes civil unrest, and is the laziest man since the creation of man? Kobe’s decked a player in a game. Nowitzki’s no more a defensive stalwart the Zach is. He has better numbers than Boozer and Antwan Jamison. Has a cleaner recent past then Jason Richardson. Yet Zach is a no good, selfish thug. I don’t see the smoke to this fire. And this is coming from me who used to be on that same witch hunt even after he became a Clipper. Every time I hear him talk every time I see his demeanor on the court it reflects none of that. He’s has a southern draw and has a very dark complexion and unfavorable facial features. He fits the profile. It’s gotten absurd and repulsive. Show me the proof. Do some research and produce some hard or semi-hard evidence. Better yet bring anything. Please. If not we’re sounding like “Plashke” of the LA Times. Otherwise put out the torches and the pitch forks. This has gotten ridiculous.

by Takebb909 on Mar 13, 2009 1:17 AM PDT reply actions  

I think you overstate the case a little bit on Zach, but I’m basically onboard with what you’re saying. Not to continue to draw contrasts with the Blazers (but since Zach is best known for his Blazer days I guess its appropriate) but consider Brandon Roy’s actions the other night against the Lakers. He shoved, he pushed, he yelled— blah blah blah. And no he didn’t take a swing. But take a look at the press he received for that incident. He is a team leader who stands up for his guys, and even if he did throw a punch I can’t imagine a foul thing being written about him. Now put Zach in that situation, I guarantee he would be called a no good selfish thug. I understand that images are hard to change and that Zach was no angel, but I think Zach for some people is an easy guy to target.

by Michael White on Mar 13, 2009 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

"I guarantee he would be called a no good selfish thug."

Not at all. Roy was confronting a player that just did a flagrant II on his teammate. Obviously what Randolph did in the Suns game was different, but if he got in a players face for headhunting EJ he would have gotten applauded (as long as he didn’t throw a punch or cross the line).

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 13, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree to some extent

In one of Zach’s first games back after his suspension against the Celtics, Paul Pierce took exception to a Mardy Collins foul. Pierce starting jawing and going at Mardy, Zach stepped in and did a good job of separating the two and defusing the situation.

Milph (the Clippers announcers, mind you) attributed the entire incident to Zach and continued to do so until about the third replay, when they realized, oh hey, look Zach is the good guy in this one. Reputation definitely plays a role.

Having said that, there’s no question that Brandon Roy was well within reason in getting into Ariza’s grill as Rudy lay on the deck.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 13, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interersting take

On the Cleveland game I think you raise a valid point that has not really been discussed. Fourth quarter of a close game is really where you have to know who you are as a team, and the Clippers don’t – for some obvious reasons.

On Zach, I think the profiling tack is a little overwrought, but worth considering. I do find it interesting that we (in ClipsNation) didn’t even seem to know what the ‘character’ knocks against him were. “Something about a strip club? No, I think there was a gun charge.” They didn’t want him in Portland, but we don’t even seem to know why. Then, Sabonis4Ever gives us the actual rap sheet above… and it’s all pretty tame. Cuz, you know, if “He went to a strip club when he wasn’t supposed to” is the worst thing you can say about a guy… well, that’s pretty much the ONLY time I’ve ever been to a strip club, if you know what I mean.

I think we need this team back on the court (though Zach won’t be playing in Denver because of his father’s funeral).

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 13, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

That list is not complete at all

Zach also punched Ruben Patterson then hid out at Dale Davis house so Ruben wouldn’t shoot him (seriously). Look at this article. It gives a glimpse of the Jailblazers. He was suspended for a game for flipping off a fan. He was sued for beating a guy who Zach thought snitched on him. Has been involved in at least 2 dance club fights, but not charged. He was charged with driving under the influence of marijuana. He was pulled over for drag racing in a 20 mph zone (also under the influence of marijuana) and had guns in the car, but they were registered under his name. Another link.

This is only stuff I can remember. I didn’t follow the Blazers hardcore before 2006 (high school was a busy time).

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 13, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks...

I figured there had to be some weed involved, right? Damon Stoudamire, Rasheed Wallace… those old Blazer teams were like a Cheech and Chong movie.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 13, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lets not get carried away

 In the 2004-2005 season (when Portland gave Z-Bo his contract) he averaged 18.9 pts and 9.6 rebounds a game. In 2008-2009 (between New York and the Clippers) he’s averaging 21.7 pts and 10.5 rebounds a game. I’m not sure how much his production has dropped…

by Michael White on Mar 13, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I

was referring to the punch during the PHX game and the fight with Nate Robinson.

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 14, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

He had a fight with Nate?

This year? I’m blank on that.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 14, 2009 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

A nice touch

“Hiding out at Dale Davis’ house so Ruben wouldn’t shoot him” brings together a couple of nice strands for the “MDSr’s penchant for thug life” theory.

by citizen zhiv on Mar 13, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

what i enjoy about ZBO is you know what you’re going to get with him, no matter how bad the clippers have been whenever hes shown up on the hardwood hes produced. he doesnt always make the best decisions but i dont understand the horrible aura everyone thinks he has. i dont mind him.

by shoothoop on Mar 13, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Alot of people are just more comfortable

staying with the same relationship than moving on. They will rationalize anything.

It’s called FEAR.

by Jax on Mar 13, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, okay, fear...

But not fear of the unknown, which is what you imply. Fear of the known. Fear of DTS and Andy Roeser.
Firing a coach or a gm doesn’t automatically make things better. Look at Sacramento. They fired Rick Adelman, a good coach, and farted around for three years before they realized they were going to have to strip the team in order to get better. Firing the coach did nothing.
Mike Dunleavy has done a lot to improve the Clipper Zeitgeist. That’s undeniable. You yourself, Jax, said that you didn’t fully sign on to Clipper fandom until they extended Maggette and Brand… an event which wouldn’t have happened without the influence of MDSr.
Okay, you’re right. I’m afraid. I’m very afraid. For all the right reasons.

by swamigusto on Mar 13, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Um, no

Agreed about what MDSr did. Now it’s time to move on.

This is as bad as anything before. We don’t know what’s going to happen. Don’t settle for mediocrity.

Basically, the argument is Orwellian. Set yourselves free.

by Jax on Mar 13, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

CS

I just read this piece in it’s entirety. Great, great job. You are the premier Clippers blogger in town, IMHO.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Mar 13, 2009 1:06 PM PDT reply actions  

What the hell took you so long?

The post was up for almost 24 hours before you read it? Unacceptable Mikey.

Oh, and thanks.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 13, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I had skimmed it

It’s long, ya know.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Mar 13, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Intellectual commitment

We ask a lot, here at CN. It’s obvious that I do. Nothing I like better than words by the thousand from CS. I’m a little disappointed that we haven’t gotten the next installment yet, actually. How many hours do we have left on the clock before the next preview?

by citizen zhiv on Mar 13, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually Zhiv I’ve been waiting for your point by point breakdown of the Sports Guy. You are the featured commenter!

by Michael White on Mar 13, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I say we create an appreciation of the Sports Guy thread

Supporting his larger points, instead of reflexively attacking the minutae for minor issues that are incorrect about it.

by Jax on Mar 13, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Feel Free

I thought I was just making a joke as it had been alluded to in CS’s initial post, but hey I’ll say it. I dont like when people bag on my team. I just don’t. I come to ClipperNation because I like to read and chat with people like me. And that includes people like you, who I have disagreed on your points, because I feel like at least you are operating in good faith—- as a fellow Clipper fan.

But when Bill Simmons uses his significant platform to absolutely crush my team, it makes me feel lousy (vis a vis how I feel about sports— i"m not like actually depressed.) By having Zhiv or CS or even myself describe in detail the points where Simmons was off, it is fun for me. I’ll admit it, I’m a Clipper homer, and an optimist.

There has been some chat here recently about whether or not having Bill Simmons types rail on the Clippers is good for the team. I guess it could be, as they can function as an agent of change (which if I’m not mistaken, that’s really your hope correct.) But these last days have been brutal, not just because I watched the team blow the 4th quarter lead, but because it made us look like a laughing stock again. And having Zhiv point out the obvious flaws in Simmon’s article has been one of the high points.

by Michael White on Mar 13, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're tempting me

I’ve been holding off and have just mentioned a high point here and there. The in-depth Simmons article actually feels more like CS’ bailiwick, since he’s able to do the exhaustive, sustained, annotated analysis like no one else. I would, like, have to reread Simmons and take notes and proceed more deliberately than I generally do around here. I don’t know; I’m not really feeling it right now, although I would go hard drafting off of CS in heartbeat.

Your point, mwhite, about “using his significant platform to absolutely crush my team,” is very well taken. We’re used to a certain amount of “It’s the Clippers” noise, and it’s fun to point it out and it’s not especially hard to live with. But Simmons is a different story. He’s an expert, he’s a season ticket holder, he’s a great writer and a smart guy and he’s really funny. He knows sports, and spends time and intelligence on them, and that’s about all I ask for from sports pundits. I love Simmons’ posts and read him regularly. He’s always putting pressure on issues and pushing it, and it generally doesn’t bother me, although I like it better at some times than others, but when he goes after the Clippers in this particular way it makes me nuts.

I’m not in the “all the problems begin and end with Dunleavy” school, and that is where Simmons is planting his flag.

Just for instance, wouldn’t it be nice if Simmons was working a little bit harder on getting Eric Gordon some recognition, and going after David Thorpe the way that KArnovitz did? As the guy who spent money on those season tickets, even though he’s doing it to watch other teams like Cleveland, he’s got a good idea of how Gordon plays and the way that no one was talking about it before the all-star break. Gordon could use more pub, and taking just a little energy away from punching at the Dunleavy straw man would be very helpful. He did a great job with Baron Davis, even helped him play a little better for a couple of games, and he clocked some nice progress for us on the FElton debacle. But that article was tainted because of its anti-Dunleavy virulence—what about putting a little bit more on BD?

I don’t think that the problems with the latest Simmons diatribe are just minutae. I say that having posted about “the Maestro of the Meltdown” early on Wednesday morning, and I suppose that exposing Dunleavy’s decision-making is really the primary thrust of his article. But I still think the main point against Simmons is his disingenuousness about being a rabid Celtics fan. The times when I really don’t like Simmons and he makes me angry are when he’s an arrogant Masshole of the highest order, and especially when he’s not admitting it. As Clipper fans, we don’t really need him doing us any favors—he certainly wasn’t doing that when he wrote and quietly whined about the Clips beating the Celtics.

So, without digging in too deep, I’m happy to remember his pain was so much greater than our own when the Cavs pulled out that game.

by citizen zhiv on Mar 13, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think

that you are missing the point. Simmons can write whatever he wants to write. He doesn’t have to focus on the issues you want to focus on. He’s interested in the MDSr angle. You’re more interested in other issues.

He’s not attacking your team. He’s just following a story about an inept coach.

by Jax on Mar 14, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought the Simmons article was great

He missed the mark on a few specifics, but I agreed with his overally point.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Mar 13, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

AAAuurrggghhh!

   Or whatever it is that Charlie Brown used to yell when Lucy pulled the football away. I just received notice the Clippers are selling $85. seats for $15. Isn’t this driving anyone else mad? Does this mean I can get my seats next year for $600? Is Sterling so broke that by selling another 200 seats at $15. he makes an extra $3000?

  I know I keep posting this, but it’s driving me crazy.

by eastie Rich on Mar 13, 2009 9:01 PM PDT reply actions  

dunleavys a good GM but not a great coach

by shoothoop on Mar 13, 2009 10:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Clips Nation!
Start posting about the Clippers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Picture_9_small
Do the Clippers have a better future than the Dodgers?
Small
Poll: If EJ has to be included...
La_clippers_logo_small
Andy Roeser... Stand Up Guy!
Small
Clipper Centers
30108_1409418908370_1019380071_1190835_5513721_n_small
Were Better!!!!!!!
Small
Poll: How much would you give for Carmelo?
Clippers1_small
Eric Gordon: On the Radar
Small
U.S. vs. Croatia
Issue-57-clippers_small
Similarities of Stephen Strasburg to Blake Griffin
Michael-jordan-acrylic_small
Quotes from Ralph Lawler on Carmelo Anthony

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS

SBNation.com Recent Stories

NEW YORK CITY NY - AUGUST 12:  Kevin Durant #5 looks on during the World Basketball Festival USAB Showcase at Radio City Music Hall on August 12 2010 in New York City. (Photo by Chris Trotman/Getty Images for Nike) +4 updates

FIBA World Championships 2010: Team USA Routs Iran 88-51, Clinches Top Spot In Group B

FILE - This Feb. 21, 2010, file photo shows Denver Nuggets head coach George Karl before an NBA basketball game against the Boston Celtics,  in Denver. Karl will miss Wednesday night's,  March 10, 2010, game at Minnesota as he undergoes another round of cancer treatment.  (AP Photo/David Zalubowski, File) +4 updates

Nuggets Coach George Karl Says He'll Return To Coaching Next Season

Cleveland Cavaliers' Delonte West, right, shoot over Indiana Pacers' Jeff Foster in the first half of a NBA basketball game in Indianapolis, Monday, April 13, 2009.  (AP Photo/Michael Conroy) link

Celtics Sign Free Agent Delonte West

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Clipsnation_small Steve Perrin